Creative Alchemy

Alexandra Amor

Creative Alchemy explores the healing properties of creative expression after a cult or other traumatic experience.

  1. 4d ago

    Burning to Write the Truth with Renee Linnell

    One of the big takeaways I have from this conversation with Renee Linnell was when she reminded me that shame dissipates as we tell our stories. When we tell the truth about an experience we feel shame about, that act of speaking up breaks up the shame, the same way a frozen river’s ice breaks up in the spring. Telling the truth is like sunshine and warmth on that river of shame. Even when we just tell the truth to ourselves. Perhaps especially then! It’s hard to tell the truth sometimes. It can be scary and it can make us feel vulnerable. But it is always worth doing. Renee talks about her journaling practice and how full of anger it was when she first left the cult. I’m glad we talked about that because expressing those feelings is SO important, especially after a cult situation where we’ve been told our thoughts and feelings and our very being don’t matter. It’s healthy to get the river of feelings flowing again. Another thing that Renee points to in this conversation is that writing a memoir about a traumatic experience like being in a cult is difficult. If you’re trying to do that – to write your story – and you’re finding that it’s hard, you’re right! It is hard! But that doesn’t mean you should give up. Just because something is hard or has difficult moments doesn’t mean it isn’t worth the effort. Ask anyone who’s ever raised a child. Renee Linnell is an author, inspirational speaker, entrepreneur, and lifelong adventurer. She has been featured on The Today Show, BBC, NBC, NPR, and numerous other media outlets. Before becoming a writer, she traveled the world as a surf model, danced tango professionally, earned an MBA from New York University, and founded or cofounded six wildly different businesses—from tango shoes and dance companies to fitness, fashion, tech, and publishing. Through her writing and speaking, Renee explores freedom, self-trust, and what it means to return to who we were before the world told us who to be. Learn more about Renee Linnell at ReneeLinnell.com This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the Creative Alchemy journaling handbook. This free ebook guides cult and other trauma survivors into the healthy and healing practice of journaling. With a gentle hand and relying on her decades of writing experience, cult survivor Alexandra Amor encourages readers to develop a journaling practice as part of their healing path. Click here to get your complimentary copy. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes Knowing early on that a punishing deity didn’t make sense Starting a spiritual quest at age 15 Creating the perfect life and still feeling empty and sad Falling under the spell of a toxic teacher Beginning to write as a way to deal with the difficult emotions after leaving a cult Finding that shame dissipates as we tell our stories Lessons learned about how to write a personal story Working with an editor and getting what was needed from that collaboration Moving through the painful process of working with edits Resisting suggestions to change the book for a publisher and telling the true story  How writing helps us to see our part in what unfolds in life Remembering the joy of creativity for its own sake Resources mentioned in this episode Renee’s books The Burn Zone and Still On Fire The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron Transcript of the Interview with Renee Linnell Alexandra: Renee Linnell, welcome to Creative Alchemy. Renee: Thank you. It’s so nice to be here. Alexandra: It’s nice to have you here. Why don’t you give us a little potted history, as they say in the UK, about yourself and about your time in the Buddhist cult? Renee: I lost most of my family when I was young, and my father died on Thanksgiving Day when I was 15. And so there had just been so much death around me that. He was like my best friend and my hero, and so I just was like, there has to be more out there than what I’m being taught in church and in school. I was raised very Catholic, and I remember sitting in church when I was like five, and I was like, “It doesn’t make sense.” I loved American cheese slices, and so when they said Jesus, I thought they were saying cheese-us. So I pictured like this big American slice of cheese in the sky, and I just remember thinking like, if Jesus, like if God made me and made all of us, then He would love us. Like we’re not sinners. That doesn’t make sense. We’re not flawed. So I was like, okay, the adults have holes in their logic, and so even from a young age, I was like, “Doesn’t make sense.” And then when everyone was dying, I was like, “It doesn’t make sense that we would fall so in love with people, and then they would die, and we’d never see them again.” Like that’s just cruel and horrible. When my dad died, someone gave me the book *Many Lives, Many Masters* by Dr. Brian Weiss, and that introduced to me the concept of reincarnation and souls constantly finding each other, and loved ones always being reunited. And so that was like, okay, that feels good to me. I started, without realizing it, a spiritual quest at that age, and then I started to question everything. My mom was very Catholic, and she said, “You don’t have sex unless you want to please the man, and that’s the only reason women have sex.” And I was starting to learn about my body, and I was like, that doesn’t seem right. I mean, I think sex is probably going to feel really good. I want to go out and have as much sex as possible. Then I started traveling. And then the more that I traveled around the world, the more that I realized what I was hearing on the news wasn’t really accurate. And so I became a mystic more or less. I wanted to know for myself what was real. I ended up creating this great life where I was surfing, traveling around the world surfing, and I was a model, so free surfboards, free bikinis, free trips, lots of pro surfers to play with. Then I became a professional dancer, and I was dancing Argentine tango and traveling dancing, and I was still unhappy inside. I was well educated. I graduated magna cum laude with a double degree, so it was like I had everything from the outside looking in. My life was perfect, and I was empty and sad, and I felt like everyone else out there had it figured out, and I didn’t. And so I read all kind of self-help books. I studied all different religions. I traveled all over the world. I slept with all kinds of guys. Nothing was filling the void inside, and nothing was answering the questions. Then I walked into a meditation seminar, and which is the opening of my first memoir, *The Burn Zone* I sat in front of the teacher, and we started to meditate. And I realize now that I went into samadhi, which is the highest mind state you can go into meditating, apparently, according to books I’ve read. I erroneously attributed that to the teacher, and so I was just hooked, like hook, line, and sinker. I was in. I didn’t care who she was. I didn’t care what she said. I was going to be her student for the rest of my life because that peace that I felt inside my mind, I realize is what I’d been searching for my whole life. Alexandra: Wow! Take us forward to when things went sour with that teacher. Renee: Well, they went sour. Okay, it’s like after I’ve done so many interviews with the book for the book tour and everything, I compare it to any toxic relationship where it’s like, well, if you went on a first date and somebody verbally abused you or hit you, you would get up and leave the table. You have nothing invested, but they love bomb you and they make you feel like loved and seen and cherished. And adored and safe. Then slowly over time they start removing your foundation and the things that empower you and the things that make you you, and then slowly they start introducing the self-doubt, the gaslighting. So it’s like in hindsight, I could say things started turning bad like within the first three months, but I would say, well, I am an extremist, so I became the number one student. I ended up kind of running the company and working with the teacher, who was a woman, with her right hand man, who ran the company, and then he and I were together all the time. He was 15 years older than I was. He started seducing me, and I became his consort. So that’s when it really started to turn ugly. But at the time, I was-I don’t know-I-I also was raised with an abusive mother, so the love pattern that I learned was like neglect and abuse followed by love bombing. So this was just all these patterns were being mimicked and recreated. But it turned when I became his consort was about a year in. Alexandra: When did you end up leaving the group? Renee: Well, I got thrown out of it, which saved my life. Alexandra: Me too! Renee: Did you? Yes. Probably not for the same reason I did. Maybe not. It turned out that the right hand man was her boyfriend and her lover, which I didn’t know. So my joke is, if you want to get thrown out of a cult, sleep with the leader’s boyfriend or girlfriend. But I it saved my life because what happened was I think, let’s see, I joined in 2006 in September. Oh, it’s probably this is probably today might actually be my 20-year anniversary. It was probably summer 2010 when my teacher called me and she said, “I have a new task for you. Your task is to go get into one of the hardest business schools in the country”, she said. “That’s not the task, though. The task is to then graduate and make $10 million profit after taxes, and once you do that, you can come back to the group.” And she said, “But you have 48 hours to say goodbye to e

    Burning to Write the Truth with Renee Linnell
  2. Oct 8

    Writing About the Cult Next Door with Tamara Mathieu

    We all want to belong. As I’ve said previously on this show, we are wired to look for connection and community. That very natural human need is what led today’s guest, Tamara Mathieu, into the Twelve Tribes. Fourteen years later, Tamara and her husband realized they needed to leave what had become a controlling, high-demand situation. One that Tamara would end up writing a book about and telling the truth about her experience. In the introduction, I talk about how personally satisfying for me to hear a cult-related story from someone who had got involved with her partner and then survived the cult with that person and then got out with him as well. And they’re still married now! I don’t know how many partnerships or marriages could survive that kind of journey. Tamara Mathieu joined the Twelve Tribes religious cult in 2000, with her husband and young son. In her memoir, All Who Believed, she tells her story in depth from how she became drawn to the group, what the next fourteen years were like, and finally how her family left in 2014 as a family of six. Writing became a way for her to heal and share her experience in order to educate others about this insidious group. Tamara lives in Vermont, works with adults with disabilities, and now has three grandchildren. Learn more about Tamara Mathieu at TamaraMathieu.com This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the audiobook version of my award-winning, Amazon best-selling memoir, Cult, A Love Story. Readers call the book ‘compelling’ ‘gritty’ ‘intimate’ and ‘not boring’ – which is what an author loves to hear. I narrated the audiobook and if you have a Spotify premium subscription you can listen to the audiobook for free as part of that subscription at alexandraamor.com/spotify. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes Searching for answers after the Columbine school shooting On being introduced to the simple lives of those in the Twelve Tribes Discovering that the reality was very different than the initial impression of the group Connecting online with others after the Twelve Tribes experience and beginning to write about it Finding freedom in telling the truth about the experience  Working on a follow-up memoir about the experience after leaving the Twelve Tribes Resources mentioned in this episode Tamara Mathieu’s book, All Who Believed Tamara on TikTok Transcript of the interview with Tamara Mathieu Alexandra: Tamara Matthew, welcome to Creative Alchemy. Tamara: Hi, thank you for having me. Alexandra: My pleasure.  Tell us a little bit about yourself and about your background in the Twelve Tribes. Tamara: I live in Swanton, Vermont. I am a mother of four children. I now have three granddaughters as well. I grew up in Vermont, and I met my husband in 1995. We were both UVM students, University of Vermont, and around let’s see, it must have been 1998.  I found out that I was pregnant, and so our lives just took a very different turn. We were still in college and everything, and now we have a baby on the way. And I took that responsibility very seriously that I was going to be a mother.  We bought a house, we planned a wedding, and I really started to consider being a mother. What kind of mother was I going to be? I wanted to be a good mother. I really wanted a secure and stable family for my child. You know, all those things. Once my baby was born, I remember an event that really just is in my mind, as one of those moments that I feel like I started searching for something more was when the Columbine shooting happened.  My baby Emmett was only five weeks old, and I was very affected by that event. Now that I would potentially be sending my child to school in a few years, and that was so scary. And I thought, am I going to be able to do that? Am I going to feel safe? Is this going to get worse? Is this kind of thing going to be happening more and more?  It just was very unsettling, very scary, and I really started at that point to just desire just something safe, something different, something secure, just something wholesome for my child. I was a stay-at-home mom at the time, and I had mom friends, and we had play group. I had a good support in that way, but still, the majority of my day of my time was just me alone in our home with my baby. That was just awfully lonely considering that I was 22 years old and I went from college student.  We lived in an apartment with like seven of our friends. There was always something going on, and just carefree and fun. And then all of a sudden, I had this drastic, drastic life change. And I think it’s often in those times where anybody could be susceptible to the message of a group such as the Twelve Tribes, because it was kind of in this state of mind that I met the Twelve Tribes. I was so drawn to their simple life of being together. From the outside, the appeal was so strong. I just saw families living together, working together, mothers helping each other out-a really simple and wholesome lifestyle that I felt like I would not, in and of myself, be able to provide for my child. Like, how am I going to have this simple farm lifestyle?  We lived in Burlington, Vermont. My husband was a software engineer. Everything in our lives was kind of driving us to a certain lifestyle, which would have been probably most young women’s dream. We probably would have ended up fairly wealthy with my husband getting into that field in the late ’90s. It was a really upcoming field. He already had a really good job. We were homeowners at 22 years old; that’s unheard of. It was in that place that I was lonely and just looking for something more.  I will back up a little bit. My husband’s aunt, his mother’s sister, joined the Twelve Tribes way back in its beginnings in Island Pond, Vermont, in 1981. He grew up always knowing about the group. His family lived in Benson, Vermont. He’d been up to Island Pond to visit his relatives, and so I was introduced to the group through him, meeting his relatives. What really stood out to me, I’d met some people in the community prior to our wedding, but the day of our wedding, he had relatives that came up. Twelve Tribes don’t go into churches, and they don’t go to ceremonies such as weddings, so they came to the reception afterwards, and they just pitched in. We didn’t have fancy caterers or anything like that. It was just all hands on deck. And so they just saw that there was a need, and they pitched in and they started replenishing food at our buffet and making sure everybody had water.  And they stayed afterwards, and they cleaned our entire reception hall. We were expecting to have to go back and do that basically ourselves. And we show up, and there they are, and they’re cleaning. I was really affected. It’s like, wow, this is amazing. These people are so wonderful. They don’t even know me, and their work. It was a really hot day, and one of them had a baby in a front carrier.  And then the next day, a whole bunch of Twelve Tribes members came over to my in-laws’ house. There’s a community in Rutland, Vermont, which is nearby, and a bunch of people from there came over. I was just surrounded by probably four to five different Twelve Tribes families, and I just spent hours asking them questions and talking to them. There were a couple of other young women that also had babies, and I just remember being envious of them. They’re all going home to this wonderful life together. And the next day, I had to just go back to Burlington to our lonely house. And my husband was going back to work. We had a three month old baby. He had just started a job at a new company, so we weren’t going on a honeymoon. It was just like okay, I just met this amazing group of people. I want to find out more. I want to get to know them more. So I started visiting any chance I could get. I went with my mother and father-in-law to Hyannis, Massachusetts, for a whole week. My husband didn’t go, but you know he felt fine sending me and our baby with his parents to visit the Twelve Tribes. No harm was going to come out of that.  But the more time I spent there, it was harder and harder for me to go home. I started reading all of their literature. And my mother-in-law would get that they have like a monthly newsletter for the group. It’s called the Intertribal News, and every single Twelve Tribes community around the world each month submits like just a little synopsis. Here’s what’s going on in our clan this month. Because she was good friends with a lot of the people in the Rutland location, she became privy to they would let her take and read these newsletters. She would give them to me, and I’d be so excited to read it, and my husband was not excited at first. About the thought of the Twelve Tribes.  He was happy with our life, and he was raised Christian, and he really wanted me to be a Christian. This is another aspect of it. He wanted me to go to church with his family, and I was never drawn to religion at all. I had all these questions; it never made sense to me, and I felt like, well if if there was something that was the truth, and God wanted me to believe that, then, like surely I would have some type of internal response when I did finally find what I was looking for, and I felt like that’s what had happened. I never went to church and had that sense of like, oh my god, I can’t wait. Next Sunday, you know that was a great sermon. It was amazing. Can’t wait to go back. Maybe we can get together with some people. I’ve been to different churches with friends or family. I did go to my husband’s to his family’s church with him one time, and I never felt anything. But it

    Writing About the Cult Next Door with Tamara Mathieu
  3. Oct 1

    From Experience to Stories to Stage with Dennis Hawkins-Bogle

    Here’s what I was reminded of during this conversation with writer and playwright Dennis Hawkins-Bogle. No one’s going to hand you the opportunity to tell the truth of your experience and tell your story. There is no validation and acknowledgement fairy who’s going to come along and anoint you with her magic wand. If telling your story matters enough to you – if you feel the pull to tell the truth about your experience, whatever it is – you are going to have to be the one that makes it happen. And here’s the good news: it is within your power to do so. In the introduction, I talk about my experience of watching Dennis perform his play, The Blue Taffeta Party Dress, and how I was struck by his ease and comfort on the stage, and both the joy and poignance I experienced while watching it. I also mention my new blog series, #MemoirMonday. Each Monday I’ll post a short article with a tip or some advice about writing your best memoir. Memoir is one of my very favourite literary forms and I believe everyone has a story to tell. I want to empower writers like you to tell their stories and tell them well so that readers have a good experience as well. You can find all the Memoir Monday posts listed on this page. Dennis Hawkins-Bogle is a writer, performance artists, and culture worker living and working on the unceded traditional territory of the Ligwilda’xw people in Campbell River. After 30 years working in public education administration, which took Dennis to live and work in Lower Post, themost northerly community in BC, and Grise Fiord, the most northerly community in Canada, Dennis now devotes his time to creative pursuits. Dennis’ involvement in community theatrebegan in Williams Lake, where he played Ricky Roma in Glen Garry Glen Ross and won best supporting actor at the Interior Zone Theatre Festival. He has been involved with Rivercity Players in Campbell River as an actor, director, producer and board member. Dennis is a writer and storyteller, most notably for Where is Grise Fiord? Tales from the High Arctic, and the Blue TaffetaParty Dress and Other Stories. Dennis won the Readers’ Choice Award and North Island PrideCommunity Champion Award for The Blue Taffeta Party Dress. Dennis has also organised reading and writing events for local and visiting authors in Quesnel and Campbell River. Dennis is published in the Caitlin Press anthology, Queer Country Crossroads. Connect with Dennis on his Facebook page. This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the audiobook version of my award-winning, Amazon best-selling memoir, Cult, A Love Story. Readers call the book ‘compelling’ ‘gritty’ ‘intimate’ and ‘not boring’ – which is what an author loves to hear. I narrated the audiobook and if you have a Spotify premium subscription you can listen to the audiobook for free as part of that subscription at alexandraamor.com/spotify. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes On teaching at the northernmost school in Canada Growing up in small town British Columbia and feeling like an outsider Recognizing that being oneself can open us up to social ridicule Turning a collection of short stories into a one person play Breaking free from internalized stigma and shame via artistic expression Working with a director to stage a one person performance How writing and performing can bring new layers of understanding to an experience Telling stories that involve other people and being respectful while also telling the truth Writing prose vs. writing for the stage Memorizing 8,800 words to be performed The importance of getting our stories on paper Finding the courage to tell our stories Resources Hollyhock Retreat Centre on Cortes Island, BC Murray Hill, drag performer, actor and comedian Transcript of the Interview with Dennis Hawkins-Bogle Alexandra: Dennis Hawkins-Bogle, welcome to Creative Alchemy. Dennis: Thank you very much, Alexandra. It’s nice to be with you today. Alexandra: Good to see you.  Tell us a little bit about your background and who you are. Dennis: I am a retired public educator in British Columbia. I worked for 33 years, primarily in education administration, school principal.  A couple of interesting notes about my educational career is I was at one time the principal of the most northerly school in British Columbia, in Lower Post. A little two-room kindergarten to grade four school called Denatia School. That was my very first principalship.  I was also the principal of the most northerly school in Canada, at Grice Fjord Nunavut Umingmak School. Umingmak means muskox.  Another interesting thing about my educational career is that I was my last principalship for seven years. I was the principal of the high school that I graduated from in Quesnel, and that really was an amazing opportunity to close a circle, because I grew up in Quesnel. I was born and raised in Quesnel. I came of age in Quesnel in the the 60s and 70s.  I reflect a lot on my upbringing in Quesnel about the socialization process and how in the 60s and 70s boys were socialized to to be one way, and of course girls another way. For those of us that didn’t quite fit that mold, there was an incredible amount of dissonance and distress, trying to figure out ourselves and trying to figure out where we we fit in.  Quesnel is a lumber town in the middle of the province was a great place to grow up, but the distress that comes with being an outsider, being gay, and growing up in this kind of small conservative environment, and I think it’s probably the same in any environment, even if you’re in a not so conservative environment. I think the socialization process is pretty intense on people to comply and to fit in.  When you can’t fit in, then there is all this distress. So after I finally graduated from high school and moved away, I was able to go to university, and I was able to come out of the closet, and I was able to embrace the person that I am. Embrace who I am, challenge the distress, replace some of those negative images with some positive thoughts and imagery. So that is who I am. Alexandra: I have a follow up question.  When you returned to Quesnel at the end of your career, was that deliberate? Was it a choice on your part, or were you transferred there coincidentally? Dennis: No, it was a choice on my part. I had left. I had finished my three year tenure in Nunavut, and I owned a small house in Wells, which is just outside of Quesnel, and so that’s where I went. I didn’t have a job to go to. And then there was a principalship in the Quesnel School District, and I thought I’m about halfway through my career. I’ve got another 15 to 20 years of my career. I think I can do it in my hometown, and so I purposefully applied for the principalship and got that, and then transferred to another school, and then transferred to another school, and then finally transferred to the high school where I finished my career. It was a purposeful move back to Quesnel. Alexandra: We’re here today mostly to talk about The Blue Taffeta Party Dress. So talk to us about the origins of that. Dennis: My mother came home one day, and she was thrifting, and there’s six kids in the family, so thrifting was a great thing to do. And my mother came home; she was thrifting, and she bought a bunch of stuff for us kids to play with. And she brought this beautiful blue party dress, and.  I remember her bringing it home, and I remember myself and my sisters, who I was closest to in age, being fascinated by this party dress. I remember wanting to wear it, and then I remember wearing it and putting it on and twirling. I remember the real joy that came from that. The internal comfort and joy of twirling around in that dress because it was layered crinoline and it was a party dress. And so when I would spin, it would flare out around me. I remember that dress.  But the other thing, Alexandra, that I remember that is really poignant is I remember knowing that I’m doing something that a girl does. I know that I am putting myself out there for social ridicule. Had anyone, whether it be my sister, my mother, my brother, my father, whoever saw me do this, I knew that I was potentially opening myself up to social ridicule by someone saying, “You’re doing a girl thing, or why are you acting like a girl?”  I was very much aware of that. I was probably only about eight or nine years old, and that awareness of being different and treading on thin ice socially, I was very aware of it as a child. Alexandra: When did you start writing the short stories that highlighted the things you went through growing up? Dennis: Well, the blue taffeta party dress story. I wrote that about 15 years ago, and I wasn’t in a particularly prolific writing period. I was still working as a school principal. I didn’t have a lot of time, but I because that story was so poignant in my life. I wrote it over a weekend, and then I just edited it over a course of time.  So that one was written about 15 years ago, and then it just sat. It just sat in my portfolio. And then once I retired, my husband Stephen and I, we went to Cortes Island, and we did a program there called Yoga Ritual and Meditation, and I did a ton of writing in my spare time out there. All these stories were just coming to me, and I just spent all my spare time writing.  We came home to Campbell River. Summer ended. He went back to work, and I just sat down and wrote story after story after story. I probably wrote about 70 stories in a two-year period after coming back from Hollyhock. Then some of the stories I realized this makes a great trajectory. If I compiled all these s

    From Experience to Stories to Stage with Dennis Hawkins-Bogle
  4. Sep 24

    Writing to Reckon with a Cult Experience with Gerette Buglion

    When we leave a high demand group, there is a reckoning that needs to happen. As survivors, we need to come to terms with so many things; among them, why we were drawn into the group in the first place and how we were affected by that situation. We need to deal with feelings that might include grief and loss and trauma and guilt. There’s so  much to unpack! My guest today, Gerette Buglion, understands this intimately. She herself is a cult survivor. And she hosts a writing program called Writing to Reckon which is specifically for cult survivors. In the introduction, I talk about the phenomenon of scapegoating that happens in cults. In the interview, Gerette mentions her own experience of being labelled a ‘loser’ by the leader of the cult she was involved in and I reflect on my personal experience with similar treatment of myself and others in the cult I belonged to. I also talk about how complicated it is to unpack these traumatic experiences that happen to us in cults. Gerette Buglion wants to live in a world where cult leaders, narcissistic abusers, and unethical, manipulative techniques are spotted, called out, and silenced, creating more opportunities for nourishing relationships to flourish. She is the author of two books: her memoir, An Everyday Cult, and the Writing to Reckon Journal – for Survivors of Spiritual, Religious, and Cultic Abuse. Her work as educator and consultant centers on liberation from coercive control and supporting the integrative power of writing for survivors of cultic relationships through Writing to ReckonTM programs and Reclaiming Autonomy Through the Written Word – a bi-annual writing symposium for survivors. She is Co-founder and Executive Director for the nonprofit Living Cult Free. You can learn more about Gerette Buglion at GeretteBuglion.com This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the audiobook version of my award-winning, Amazon best-selling memoir, Cult, A Love Story. Readers call the book ‘compelling’ ‘gritty’ ‘intimate’ and ‘not boring’ – which is what an author loves to hear. I narrated the audiobook and if you have a Spotify premium subscription you can listen to the audiobook for free as part of that subscription at alexandraamor.com/spotify. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes Getting involved in a cult that taught dream analysis How the appearance of autonomy is often woven into cults On the interpersonal neurobiology work of Dr. Dan Siegel Creating a “coherent narrative out of traumatic or confusing experiences” Using writing as a way to reckon with a cult experience Resources mentioned in this episode Gerette Buglion’s book An Everyday Cult Dr. Dan Siegel Writing to Reckon classes  Daniel Kenneman’s book Thinking Fast and Slow The Living Cult Free project Living Cult Free also has a podcast Reclaiming Autonomy Through the Written Word symposium Dr. Laura Anderson and her book When Religion Hurts Robin Boyle Lazier Hoyt Richards and the HBO documentary Bring Me The Beauties Transcript of the Interview with Gerette Buglion Alexandra: Gerette Buglion, welcome to Creative Alchemy. Gerette: I am so glad to be here. What a pleasure! Alexandra: It’s great to see you.  Tell us a little bit about your background and about the cult that you were involved with. Gerette: I was born into a large family and grew up in a, I would say, a normally dysfunctional family. Nothing, you know, dramatic there, and I grew up in New York State of the United States, and when I was in my 30s, I got involved with a group that was centered on working with dreams. I had been interested in dreams, and I had a couple colleagues. I taught in a Waldorf school, so I had kind of a spiritually oriented bent much of my adult life, and a couple of my colleagues were doing this work, and so I got excited, and I got involved.  At first, it was really lovely. I learned a lot. It was an opportunity for inner growth. And then over the years, I was involved for 18 years altogether. My daughter was born six months before I started. I had been interested in starting working with this teacher. I call him Doug in my book. I had been interested in working with Doug actually before before my daughter was born, but I put that off a bit because I felt it wasn’t good to start something new when I was you know preparing to welcome a child into the world, my first child. There was a lot of anticipation in working with him too. But the first five years, I think, was fairly light involvement, and then that grew gradually over the years, as I became more and more, as the work we called it, became more and more a central focus in my life, and as my children grew. I bought a business based on my ex teacher’s advice. Of course, he had no training in business consultation, nor did he have a marriage and family counseling license, but I also did couples work with him.  My husband was also in the same group. He was involved for 16 years, and he left actually while doing his training to become a licensed clinical mental health counselor. That was part of his waking up to the fact that this was not a cool thing to be doing, because some of his professors started pushing him a bit. He had a few experiences with Doug that were really questionable and made him think again, and so he left, and then that gave me an opportunity to go even deeper.  So my last two years in the cult were actually the most intense for me, and even the few years before that had been kind of growing in intensity. Do you want me to just share briefly how I left? There was a crisis in the organization, and that crisis was that six of the head teachers left on the very same day. That was like this earthquake, it was a massive, massive rupture.  I had this question, this burning question of like, why would they all leave on the same day?  Because so much of what this group was about in terms of personal growth was that we got to make choices based on what was being revealed to us through our individual dreams. So it was one thing for one teacher to say, “Hey, I’m I’m done”. That would be a hard thing, but totally acceptable.  And in fact, that’s something that would happen. People would come to a place that they’re like I’m done, but then they would often come back. That actually is something that I did a couple of times. So we had this appearance of autonomy and choice being stitched into this organization, but it was really a ruse. And so, when all six of the top teachers left on the same day, there was a major, you know, WTF. What is really going on here? That led me to have an experience in a final meeting that we had with those teachers. One of them, literally in the last five minutes of our meeting, shared things, shared how she was being verbally beaten down by our teacher, and so that’s what created the cognitive dissonance in me. It’s like, wait a minute, this man that I’ve put on a pedestal is doing that to this beloved person who I know, who’s an artist and a poet and a deeply sensitive person.  It was really that cognitive dissonance that made the opening, that was the crack, that really allowed me to free myself. I had a very sudden snapping. I call it my snapping out of the cult, and my husband was really waiting for me. He had recognized that if he started pushing me in those two years to come out, that I would have left him. And I would have, because I was so completely indoctrinated at that point. So he really held the space for me, welcomed me back, as did many of my friends who had watched me kind of disappear for 18 years into this group. Alexandra: You mentioned your book there, which is called An Everyday Cult.  Once this happened and you decided to leave, how did you use writing to help you with that part of the journey? Gerette: I love that question because writing is a huge part of my life. As I mentioned, I had good friends who really welcomed me back with open arms. One of them handed me an eight CD pack of Dr. Dan Siegel’s interpersonal neurobiology.  Have you ever heard of Dr. Siegel? Oh gosh, I cannot recommend his work highly enough because it was deeply important for me. Because there are many things he focuses on, as I said, interpersonal neurobiologists.  He’s a psychologist who has a neurological understanding and also a deeply relational understanding of the human experience. I listened to one of those CDs probably a dozen times, and the one that I listened to again and again, and this was in 2014 is when I left the group. The one I listened to focused on what Dr. Siegel calls the importance of creating a “coherent narrative out of traumatic or confusing experiences”.  That was like gongs going off for me. I have always been an educator. I was a teacher of elementary students, and also did parent education. And I had even, as I was a special educator, so I had an orientation towards brain development and healthy human development.  So hearing Dr. Siegel’s work was very impactful for me, and so the coherent narrative became like this. It’s hard to describe it, Alexandra. It almost was like a guiding impulse in my psyche. I felt like one of those homing pigeons. Wherever I was able to to actually speak to people in a safe space, that was part of creating a coherent narrative. I had also been a journaler my whole life, and there was an aberration of journaling that took place in the group, where we had to write about our pathology is what we called it, and the deep delving of how how broken we were, and how the guidance of our teacher was setting us free. So that was part of what was actually required.  When I started writing f

    Writing to Reckon with a Cult Experience with Gerette Buglion
  5. Sep 17

    Disentangling Religion from Personal Spirituality with Kimber Young

    Kimber Young can trace her Mormon family lineage directly back to Brigham Young, the second president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Mormon church, she points out, was her whole life and her whole family was involved.  And yet, somehow, Kimber was able to begin questioning the church doctrine and dogma while also retaining a sense of her own spirituality, which was so important to her. For anyone who’s ever left a high demand situation, you know that this is an extremely difficult needle to thread. It is one I was particularly interested to talk to her about. In the introduction I talk about my experience with how challenging it is to question a group or religion that we’ve become bonded to (or, in Kimber’s case, were born into), partly because this questioning is so threatening to our identity. Who are we without the group? It takes courage to ask that kind of question and the other questions that arise when we’re challenging our beliefs. Kimber Young is an artist, writer, and creator of Something for Sundays, a weekly Substacknewsletter and a monthly illustrated zine exploring religion, spirituality, meaning, and the big questions of being human. After growing up in a religious tradition and spending years questioning and reconstructing her beliefs, Kimber became fascinated by the ways people across cultures make meaning, practice spirituality, and understand the world around them. Her work is an invitation to stay curious, and build a spiritual life outside of the box. Learn more about Kimber Young at SomethingForSundays.Substack.com This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the audiobook version of my award-winning, Amazon best-selling memoir, Cult, A Love Story. Readers call the book ‘compelling’ ‘gritty’ ‘intimate’ and ‘not boring’ – which is what an author loves to hear. I narrated the audiobook and if you have a Spotify premium subscription you can listen to the audiobook for free as part of that subscription at alexandraamor.com/spotify. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes Growing up in the Mormon church Some of the benefits of belonging to a tightly knit religious or spiritual organization How and when Kimber’s questioning of the church began Navigating asking questions of a high-demand religion without giving up God How questioning a religion or spiritual group can threaten the parts of ourselves that we like Processing and disentangling through writing How posting writing publicly opened up conversations with family and friends Dealing with pushback about public posts Exploring other religions to see what might fit How audacity is more important for artists than talent Becoming comfortable with the mysteries of life and not knowing the answers How writing can help us to learn to think critically Resources mentioned in this episode Kimber’s Substack, Something for Sundays Kimber’s post Done, Not Perfect East of Eden by John Steinbeck The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan We don’t discuss it during the interview, but one of my favourite books about someone wrestling with the Mormon religion is Leaving the Saints by Martha Beck Transcript of the interview with Kimber Young Alexandra: Kimber Young, welcome to Creative Alchemy. Kimber: Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here. Alexandra: I’m so glad that you agreed to come and talk to me.  Give us a little bit about your background as we begin. Kimber: I was actually born in Oregon, but mostly raised in Utah, and I grew up as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is the official name, but colloquially known as Mormons.  My background really is about that because it just informed every aspect of my life, and I come from Latter Day Saint descent on both sides. My great great great great uncle is Brigham Young, who brought all the people over to Utah, so it’s very ingrained into our family culture and identity, and my identity as well. And when I think about my upbringing, it really is a lot Mormonism. Alexandra: I was just reading a post. I had a few minutes to kill before we started, and I was reading a post that you wrote recently on Substack, and you were talking about how devoted you really were. Like you were all in; it was everything to you. And we’re going to talk about what your recent exploration is in that direction of asking questions. Tell us what that looked like for you being all in. Kimber: That’s a great question. I’m trying to think of some good examples, but I would say a big example is I served a mission for the church.  If you don’t know what that is, it’s just going out. You get assigned a place and a language. You don’t get to choose, and you just spend for girls, it’s 18 months. For men, it’s two years of your life. Just the sole focus is teaching about Mormonism and trying to convert people to Mormonism.  I was a pretty effective missionary. I feel like I’ve always loved people, and I love talking to people. I was called to serve in New York City, speaking Mandarin Chinese. So, I am fluent in Mandarin, and I ended up minoring in it in college. And it’s a really big passion of mine.  I was in it my whole life, but that was a part where it just consumed my whole identity, and I think back of other examples of me being devoted, and I think about meeting people who weren’t members and not knowing how to interact with them, unless it was in a teaching setting.  It was so easy for me to be nice to someone and talk to them, and because I had something to share, but when it came to just regular conversation or not having this pressure. I would just always have this pressure of I need to share the gospel with them. I need to help them understand what they’re missing.  I remember one of my best friends who she assisted me a little bit on my journey, my faith journey. But she has never been Mormon. Didn’t know anything about Mormons, and when I met her, I remember being like, “Oh no, I’m goint to have to invite her to church.” It was just this feeling of like, and I did. I invited her to church within a few weeks of knowing her, and I think it was a really big part of my life. I helped a lot of people get baptized and join the church, and yeah, it’s interesting having conversations with those people now.  Alexandra: It makes sense if you were raised that way, and as you say, both sides of your family going way way back, that totally makes sense. Kimber: Yeah, and all of our important family conversations at home, extended family, was always centered around church. That was like how we connected and how we could think deeply about things. And if we weren’t talking about church or gospel related stuff, it didn’t feel as important, and so that was really a big conversation topic in our home. I think part of the reason why I still continue to be really interested in religion. Alexandra: I get it. The cult that I was in, I had that same feeling. I hadn’t thought about that in years, but when we were together, we could talk about the deep topics, and that felt so important. Kimber: It’s a cool feeling like you’re all on the same team, and you all have values and goals. And in Utah, I mean, it’s super integrated into the culture, and so it wasn’t just my family; it was very reinforced by my neighbors and the people in church every week.  I was praised for doing things that, looking back, I’m like we’re a little bit intense. I would go up and bear my testimony about not wearing a bikini and how that was so important to not wear a bikini, and I’d speak that to the whole congregation. And then afterwards they’re like, “Wow, you’re so amazing.”  I would talk about how I would tell people, you know, in Sunday school that I didn’t date boys who watched rated R movies, and everyone would praise me for that, and so it was a way of like I felt always in the right. And I think that’s kind of a damaging mentality to grow up with, as I’ve learned, to feel always that you know the answers to everything, and you get to teach everyone else. And I think even within Mormonism, I tried to be the very, very, very best example of that. Alexandra: When did your questioning begin, or your exploration? Kimber: I was thinking about this. There’s there’s a few points that stand out to me. One, I continued to study Mandarin Chinese in college, and I had an opportunity to go to a study abroad in China. I was pretty pretty much the only religious person, let alone Mormon person.  I was with a cohort of students that were around my same age, like early 20s, and we all went out and lived in China for two months during a summer, and it was then that I kind of started realizing.  I was just so far removed everything. I couldn’t go to church. There was no church. You weren’t allowed to talk about the gospel out there. I got this paper they sent me. The church sent me that’s like you cannot proselyte because that will get you in trouble with the Chinese government, and so just all these things were stripped away. I couldn’t proselyte, and I couldn’t really talk about my religion, and I also couldn’t attend or or practice in the way I was used to.  And on top of that, I was surrounded by all these people who were never Mormon and didn’t really know what it was. And I feel like that was a time I started to doubt some stuff, and I started to really think about things. I would just try to shut it away, try to shut it away. But I think that was the first time that I really started seriously thinking about things a little bit mor

    Disentangling Religion from Personal Spirituality with Kimber Young
  6. Sep 10

    Finding Healing in Gender Transition with Comedy with Patti Savard

    Vancouver Island comedian Patti Savard also happens to be a transgender woman. She brings the subject of gender transition into her comedy. So the biggest question I had for her was, how do we laugh at something that is often perceived as being a very serious subject? I think you’ll appreciate her answer. In the introduction, I mention the unique early morning writing practice that Patti talks about during the interview. And I touch on how this conversation made clear to me how important it is for all of us to allow our creative expression to be what it wants to be. We don’t need to fit ourselves into a predetermined type of creativity. By its very nature, creativity is freedom and expresses itself in infinite ways. We do ourselves a favour when we allow that expression to take any form it wishes. Patti Savard is a Canadian comedian and comedy cabaret performer based in the Comox Valley, British Columbia. Blending stand-up, storytelling, theatrics, and song, Patti creates bold, heartfelt performances that explore identity, belonging, and the strange hilarity of being human.Her one-woman comedy cabaret, Life in Transition, combines razor-sharp wit with disarming honesty as Patti shares stories of living authentically in spaces one wouldn’t expect acceptance of a transwoman. Patti has performed at the Vancouver Just For Laughs Festival and was selected to present Life in Transition at the Glasgow International Comedy Festival, where the show has been nominated for the Sir Billy Connolly Spirit of Glasgow Award. Her work resonates with audiences through humour, vulnerability, and a joyful celebration of authenticity. You can learn more about Patti at her Instagram: pattisavard18 This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the audiobook version of my award-winning, Amazon best-selling memoir, Cult, A Love Story. Readers call the book ‘compelling’ ‘gritty’ ‘intimate’ and ‘not boring’ – which is what an author loves to hear. I narrated the audiobook and if you have a Spotify premium subscription you can listen to the audiobook for free as part of that subscription at alexandraamor.com/spotify. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes Performing stand-up for the very first time with three days notice Using comedy as a way to seek acceptance Developing a joke writing practice Receiving mentoring around comedy craft Getting honest feedback from a live audience  How comedy is about connection with the audience On writing jokes about the potentially serious subject of gender transition Changing minds and hearts through comedy How working through comedic material to make it authentic brings healing Using dreams as a springboard for creative expression How ‘weird’ is a beautiful expression of humanity Finding healing in helping others Resources mentioned in this episode Iconic Canadian tv show, Corner Gas Syd Bosel, comedian Eddie Murphy’s stand-up comedy film, Delirious Transcript of the interview with Patti Savard Alexandra: Patti Savard, welcome to Creative Alchemy. Patti: Thank you for having me. Alexandra: It’s so good to see you. Tell a little bit about who you are and a bit about your background. Patti: All righty. I am a comedian from the Comox Valley up in Courtenay. I’ve been doing it for going on five years now. I’ve performed in Toronto’s Massey Hall. I’ve performed in Just for Laughs, Vancouver.  This year, I performed in Glasgow, Scotland, at the Glasgow International Comedy Festival, and I was nominated for the Sir Billy Connolly Award, which was kind of cool. I absolutely love that man’s comedy. What a fantastic storyteller! So, to have a nomination associated to that guy’s name really feels good.  Other than that, I am a carpenter. I run my own business because I’m a Canadian comedian, and five years at this game. I don’t know how to tip the scales, but I don’t want to be a starving artist. And since I have skills, I am happy to use them. I’m a parent also, and I also have to make sure that I’m taking care of their financial obligations that fall on me. Alexandra: I hear you about the starving artist part. I don’t have the answer to how you can tip the scales either. I don’t know about that. Patti: It’ll come all things in time. I don’t know, or I don’t know. I keep doing goofy stuff at work too, so at least I’m not getting lost in the process.  I bought a a Kool Aid Man costume, and if you go on my Instagram, you’ll see a video of me running through a wall wearing that suit as I’m doing demolition, which I have written off on my taxes as a business expense because it’s for comedy purposes and for business purposes, it’s my demolition suit now. Alexandra: Exactly. Oh, that’s great. I wonder if you could write that off twice. Wouldn’t that be good? Patti: I think that’s illegal, but um, but okay. Alexandra: I saw you first when you gave a comedy show coordinated through a group that I belong to called Island Queers and Allies Who Care, and that was my first exposure to your work. And one of the things that really struck me was that you talk about your transition in comedy, and so I’m just wondering how that started. Let’s start at the beginning. Tell us about when you felt comfortable to start doing that. Patti: Sounds good. I actually started performing stand-up comedy right after transition, relatively immediately. It was a way of trying to see in front of a large group of people how I would be received as a human, but also, I think the entire process is very funny.  I was born in 1983, and so the the concept of transitioning from one gender to another is ludicrous in terms of all the beliefs that I was taught and everything, and so I think the whole act of it is brilliantly funny. I thought using comedy as a way of trying to force people to receive me was very effective, and it worked out. Yeah, so it it all started right at that moment.  Actually, as COVID came to an end, it was the very first event to happen in the Comox Valley. Right at that moment when we were allowed to have, I think up to 100 people in a space or something like that. Somebody organized an open mic comedy night, and I went and did it. And it was packed. There were literally exactly 100 people there, and I got really great laughs, and I became addicted. Alexandra: Had you always been a fan of comedy up to that point? Patti: Definitely, but not so much of a follower. I’d actually never been to a comedy show before. Alexandra: You’re kidding! Oh my god! Wow!  Where did you begin? How did you start writing jokes and that kind of stuff? Patti: Well, that week, I guess. In comedy, there’s the rule of threes, which is you know there’s certain jokes that you tell them like series of three things together, and usually works out if it’s a good joke.  I was working at a brewery in Comox. That’s another story on its own. I was having a bad day, and I just kind of joked around to myself because I was working by myself to try to make my day lifted, and I was like, “That’s kind of funny. Maybe I should write it down, because maybe if I’m having a bad day, I could just look at these stupid things I’ve written, and just cheer myself up.”  About an hour later, an older gentleman was walking past the brew house on the sidewalk and to my open garage door that I had there, and I started just goofing around with the guy, and he was like, “You’re so funny. You should be on Corner Gas.” Which, as a Canadian, is a very strange reference. It’s very directly Canadian. But again, it was like, “Oh, you think I’m funny too?”  And then my ex wife, well, we were married at the time. She came into the brew house another hour beyond that, and she said, “Hey, did you hear that? There’s an open mic comedy night happening at the other brewery in Courtney.” She told me that because being like, “Hey, that means we can have events now too,” but I took it as I should go perform at that.  So I wrote down everything that I thought was funny, and then three days later, I was up on the stage. Alexandra: Really, holy cow! And you said you got lots of laughs, so it was received well. Patti: It was, yeah. I mean, considering I only had a few days to write the jokes, they went okay. But like I said, the whole transition process is funny. So those jokes were up in the old vault. I just had to pull them out. Alexandra: It was stuff that you had been thinking of that was absurd for a while. It sounds like. Patti: Yeah, because I think life is a joke. Everything is a joke, and and and if you just have to see it. Alexandra: I want to talk about courage then. Being creative can require a lot of courage, and it’s something that people can avoid at times because it feels like maybe it requires too much of them, too much courage, too much exposure, that kind of thing.  Did you feel like it required courage from you to do this, or did you just take the leap? Patti: No, because you know, like telling my mom that I was trans and my dad, and like, oh yeah, my stepdad, just like my all my family, that was so hard, and so after once that was done, I was just like, I can do anything. Got it. Alexandra: Everything pales in comparison to that. It sounds like. Patti: Mind you. If you threw me in the middle of the ocean, without a boat, I’d probably be losing it. Alexandra: Do you have a practice? So that first show was really put together quickly. Did you develop a practice after that of writing jokes? Patti: Yes, I did. Fortunately, some of the other comedians were new to the Comox Valley and looking t

    Finding Healing in Gender Transition with Comedy with Patti Savard
  7. Sep 3

    Taking Ownership of Your Story with Hanna Etu

    Every human appreciates knowing they are not alone. When we have an experience – perhaps one of being in a cult or being an addict or being a single mother – we all want to know we are not alone in that experience. Two of the most powerful and reassuring words in the English language are “me too”. My guest today, Hanna Etu, works with neurodivergent and mad writers, supporting them to tell their stories so that others may find comfort in knowing they’re not alone. In the introduction, I talk about how I connected with Hanna’s work shepherding books, particularly memoirs, into the world. And how my memoir, Cult, A Love Story, came into being because of an unmet need I had to read someone’s personal story of being in a cult. Hanna Etu helps mad and neurodivergent writers establish a regular writing practice so they can finish their memoirs without losing the heart of their story. She has a book coaching certification in memoir and nonfiction from Author Accelerator. Her degrees in Creative Writing and Englishas well as a professional background in traditional book publishing give her unique insight into the craft, production, and marketing aspects of the writing/publishing processes.Hanna’s work-in-progress is a memoir about the loss of her brother to suicide and her personal history with mental illness.Hanna offers one-on-one coaching for writers struggling to finish their books, is gathering interest for a group program, as well as hosting free, monthly co-writing sessions for Substack subscribers. Learn more about Hanna at hannaetu.com This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the audiobook version of my award-winning, Amazon best-selling memoir, Cult, A Love Story. Readers call the book ‘compelling’ ‘gritty’ ‘intimate’ and ‘not boring’ – which is what an author loves to hear. I narrated the audiobook and if you have a Spotify premium subscription you can listen to the audiobook for free as part of that subscription at alexandraamor.com/spotify. You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show notes Working as a book coach with neurodivergent and ‘mad’ writers Taking ownership of a personal story by writing about it On supporting writers who have challenges with organization Getting to the central idea of what your book stands for Using specific tools to ensure the storytelling in a memoir is captivating Building small habits that support a writing practice How a first draft is often powerful for different reasons than we think Dealing with the challenges of writing about a very emotional subject Resources mentioned in this episode Hanna’s Substack piece about beginnings Madwomen in the Attic David Sedaris Mary Karr’s memoir Lit Jenny Lawson Transcript of the interview with Hanna Etu Alexandra: Hannah Etu, thank you for coming to Creative Alchemy and welcome. Hanna: Thank you so much for having me. Alexandra: Please tell us a little bit first about your background. Hanna: I am originally from Buffalo, New York. I have an English creative writing and German degree from Canisius University. I have an editorial background. I worked in publishing for a few years for a publishing company in Buffalo, and then when they were bought out by a bigger company, then I went elsewhere.  Now I am a certified book coach. I was certified by Author Accelerator in nonfiction and memoir. So now I am helping memoir writers, particularly neurodivergent and mad memoir writers, finish their books. Alexandra: Tell us what mad means, because I was new to that term when we started emailing. Hanna: Sure. Mad in this context is in reference to the Mad movement, so the mental health justice movement. People who may have had adverse mental health experiences, or people who have been negatively affected by the mental health system that may have been involuntarily institutionalized or involuntarily medicated, things like that. That’s typically what the MAD moniker refers to.  It’s comes from the ‘mad woman in the attic’ idea, from Jane Eyre. That’s kind of where that whole thing comes from. It’s reclaiming an older term, basically. Alexandra: Got it. What’s the reason that you chose to work with writers who are neurodivergent and part of the Mad community. Hanna: There’s a whole combination of reasons.  I am a lead organizer and regional literacy director for a grassroots feminist mental health literacy organization called Mad Women in the Attic. We advocate for people in the mental health system. And lately, our biggest work has been writing workshops because we’ve been able to connect with people all around the country.  It used to be more localized to Western New York, and now we’re doing work with people all around the world. Actually, we’ve had people in Canada, we’ve had people in Europe, all over the place. So we’ve been able to help people write their books, which has been really exciting. So that that is part of the mission.  The other part of it is that I’m also neurodivergent. I wasn’t diagnosed with anything until I was an adult with anxiety and general depression. And I tend to believe that I have other neurodivergences, but I’m just too high functioning to get a diagnosis. Nobody, none of my practitioners seem terribly interested in diagnosing me because I get through the day. The other the other reason is that both my brothers suffer from mental health issues, and my older brother died by suicide in 2018. So it’s a very personal issue, and I really want to connect with people who have had similar experiences to me or similar experiences to the people that I’ve worked with. It’s about a shared experience and validating people and advocating for themselves. It’s all about working through our difficulties and finding common bonds. Alexandra: Maybe give us a few examples of how you think writing memoir specifically fulfills those that goal, or helps people to heal and to connect and that kind of thing. Hanna: So with memoir, I think people find it cathartic to write their stories to talk about their traumatic experiences. I think it can be painful. I know personally it can be hard to write about difficult experiences, but I think people find it also find it empowering. In a way they’re taking ownership of their story and their writing. They’re taking ownership of the narrative, where the narrative has previously been written for them where they may have been in a place where somebody was making the decisions for them and telling a different story about who they are, and they’re now able to reclaim that. So I think that’s a big part of why a lot of people choose to write memoir. Alexandra: I think that’s so true. I was talking to somebody else the other day, and we phrased it in a slightly different way, but I think we were aiming at the same thing. Sometimes it’s the first time that someone can tell the truth about their experience, and more specifically, their own truth about their experience. And so that’s exactly what you’re talking about. That we get to take ownership of the narrative.  Hanna: Yeah, exactly. Alexandra: You mentioned that it’s a difficult experience, which it is.  What are some of the challenges or hurdles that you that your writers encounter when they begin this path? Hanna: There are the difficulties of writing about a traumatic experience and re-experiencing that and having to go through that again. There’s also the kind of experience, the kind of writing difficulties that neurodivergent writers have in general.  I’ve noticed a lot of these writers have difficulties with organization, and this isn’t like I can’t say that this is typical to everyone. Like everybody has their own individual experience, but I have noticed that many writers have expressed that they have a hard time keeping organized, keeping the writing organized, keeping a structure, keeping a regular practice-that’s something that a lot of the writers in this community struggle with.  I think a lot of writers, going back to the organization, they also have a hard time building a structure around their narrative because memoir is such a broad topic. Figuring out where to start, where to end, when to know what is the end, and and often these aren’t positive experiences.  These aren’t usually positive experiences, and they’re trying to end. I mean, you try to end the book on as positive a note as you can, and I think a lot of people have a hard time knowing when is it done? Is it done yesterday? Is it done a couple years ago? Like when? What period of time am I covering? And what is my mission? What is the objective? So there’s a lot of different issues that they deal with. Alexandra: That’s such a good point about wrapping up a book because when it’s a memoir, it’s about your life and your life isn’t over yet as you’re writing. So this may be an unfair question: Are there any tips that you have for finding a good place to end a memoir? Hanna: It’s funny because I’ve been wanting to write a Substack post about this and want to dig into some of my favorite memoirs. I think I would recommend reading a lot of memoir, especially by writers that you admire and writers who are writing in a similar subject matter, but particularly memoir writers, of course. I think seeing kind of comparing those.  I did this with beginnings. I did a Substack post on beginnings. Now, of course, I’ll have to be held to that. But I kind of analyze. I was like, this is really good because they get right into the action. They don’t give us extra exposition. They make us care. Right off the bat.  Now I want to kind of do the sa

    Taking Ownership of Your Story with Hanna Etu
  8. Aug 27

    Telling Our Truth in Writing with Bella Mahaya Carter

    Bella Mahaya Carter is an experienced writer and writing teacher. In this episode she shares how she used the support of an editor to meet that small, 1000 words per month goal as a way to break the enormous task of writing a memoir into small, achievable steps. In the introduction, inspired by this interview, I talk about thinking outside the box when we are looking for support for our creative projects. And I talk about a subject very close to my heart; the idea that writing and journaling can sometimes be the first time a cult survivor, or survivor of other trauma, tells the truth about their experience. And how powerful that can be. This episode of Creative Alchemy is supported by the Creative Alchemy journaling handbook. This free ebook guides cult and other trauma survivors into the healthy and healing practice of journaling. With a gentle hand and relying on her decades of writing experience, cult survivor Alexandra Amor encourages readers to develop a journaling practice as part of their healing path. Click here to get your complimentary copy. Bella Mahaya Carter is the award-winning author of three books including Where Do You Hang Your Hammock: Finding Peace of Mind While You Write, Publish, and Promote Your Book, a guide for writers.She is currently completing Ripe: A Memoir of the Lives We Carry, which explores intergenerational trauma, creativity, motherhood, and the stories we inherit—and choose to transform. Her writing has appeared in dozens of literary journals, and her last two books have received five book awards. Bella is the founder of Write Where You Are writing circles and has been teaching and coaching writers for more than twenty years. Her mission is to help writers explore what they’re carrying so they can write and live with greater truth, agency, and freedom. Learn more about Bella at BellaMahayaCarter.com You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. Show Notes: Beginning as a dancer and moving into filmmaking and then writing Discovering Shakespeare in college and falling in love with the musicality of his writing Starting to write a book about family secrets several decades ago Writing about what we inherit from family and what we choose to carry forward Finding the question at the heart of a memoir Learning to write in micro and flash non-fiction Using a monthly editorial deadline to support getting a book written What a story teaches us as we write it How it’s never too late to begin Using journaling to access the wise parts of ourselves How ‘no’ can often just mean ‘not yet’ Why being seen and recognized is an inside job Why we can begin a creative project before you feel ready Find the thing that will help you get out of your own way Resources Mentioned in this Episode Bella’s writing circles, Write Where You Are Bella’s Substack, Flying Lessons for Writers Creative Alchemy journaling handbook Transcript of Interview Alexandra: Bella Mahaya Carter, welcome to Creative Alchemy. Bella: Thank you. It’s great to be here. Alexandra: Great to have you here. Give us a little bit about your background, Bella. Maybe your education and your writing background. Bella: Okay, I’ll start with my education. My post-secondary school education started at the Juilliard School. I was a dancer, and I had a back injury and had to stop dancing, and went to college at Scripps College in Claremont, California, which is a small liberal arts college for women.  After that, I actually went to film school at USC, the School of Cinematic Arts, and I got a master of fine arts degree in filmmaking with an emphasis in screenwriting. I taught in the screenwriting department as a teaching assistant.  10 years went by, and I did a lot of writing, and then I went back to school for another master’s degree in spiritual psychology, and that really changed my life. That work, so that’s my educational. I went to the University of Santa Monica in Santa Monica, so that’s my educational background.  My writing background is-I really didn’t know I was a writer until when I went to Scripps College. Well, I didn’t even know I was a writer then. I was a dancer, and I wasn’t a great reader. I think I had some maybe dyslexia or some kind of neurodivergency, so I wasn’t a reader as a kid, which just makes me so sad even now to this day.  But I discovered Shakespeare in college, and I thought how could somebody write plays in poetry, and I just loved it. I used to listen to the old records while reading my Pelican Shakespeare in the library for hours. I could lose myself just listening to the language and the poetry, and I knew that I loved it. And then I took another class with that same teacher on contemporary women writers, and just loved it, loved it, loved it.  I didn’t know I was a writer yet. I went to film school because I thought, well, my background is dance, and now I’m interested in literature. And I thought, well, maybe combining dance and literature, I could find my way through through movie making. And I was in Los Angeles, but what I discovered in film school, I was one of maybe five women in the program. It was very it was a very male dominated environment, and I thought also I don’t really like Hollywood that much.  So around that time, I stumbled into a creative writing workshop, and I remember that the teacher he was teaching a UCLA extension class. His name was Jack Grapes, and he wrote this incredible poem about menstruation. And he read it, and I thought to myself, any man who could write about menstruation in that way is someone I think I would like to study with. And I studied with Jack for five years, and that was just the beginning of many many years of writing. Haven’t stopped writing since. Alexandra: Nice. Oh, that’s great. And you’re the author of several books, including a memoir called Raw about. Oh, my mind is going blank. Anxiety. Bella: Yeah, my three books are right behind me. Secrets of My Sex, is a collection of poems, and there’s Raw, My Journey from Anxiety to Joy. And there’s Where Do you Hang Your Hammock? Finding peace of mind while you write, publish, and promote your book. Alexandra: Right, and we’re going to come back to your writing classes and that kind of thing in just a minute. But I want to start with the project you’ve been working on for the last couple of years, so tell us about that. Bella: You mean my whole life? Alexandra: Yes, yes, exactly. Tell us about that project. Start wherever you want. Bella: My current project is called Ripe: A Memoir of the Lives We Carry, and I kind of officially started writing it over 35 years ago, and but really there were whispers of family secrets and the rupture that had happened in our family.  My mom was a great researcher, and she always would whisper the family, some of the family stories to me. Not all of them, the rest of them took me years to learn. But this seed was always planted.  My grandfather was a poet and a journalist, so I think it was kind of in my blood. But I wrote this 500-page mess of a manuscript 35 years ago. Didn’t know what to do with it, so I put it away in my file cabinet. And at around that time, I was also thinking about becoming a mother. And really, what the book is about, it’s a memoir about what we inherit and what we choose to carry forward. I think the question that is at the heart of the memoir for me was, how do I create life without surrendering my own or perpetuating inherited pain? And though I didn’t have the writing skills or the maturity, or the experience, and many other things to to write that that project in my 30s. I discovered about four years ago that I was revisiting that project.  I had discovered the 100 word story format, fell in love with concise forms and real and started mining two manuscripts. I had one was a manuscript about my high risk pregnancy, the other was a manuscript about the ancestor story, and I just started plucking from those manuscripts.  And then after about two years of doing that, I thought I’m going to ask my publisher at She Writes Press, if she thinks this is a viable way to approach a memoir. Because it was in micro and flash stories, so the stories could be anywhere from 50 words to 1000 words. And when I showed it to her, she loved it. She said, “I think this is the future of memoir because we have shorter attention spans. I think that this hybrid form is going to be very, very popular.” So that was in May of 2024, and I’m almost done. Out of the 200 stories, I think I have about eight left to write.  Alexandra: And it sounds like you had a plan, if you know how many stories are left. What’s that based on?  Bella: Well, actually, I just figured that out today. Alexandra: Oh, okay. Bella: I had a rough idea of what material I needed to cover at the end, and I am at the beginning of every month. So at the end of every month, I send my editor at least a minimum of 1000 words, and then I start fresh on the next journey, the next chapter series of chapters.  At the beginning of the month, I’m always like, I’m never going to make my deadline. I don’t know how I’m going to do this, but because what happens is I dig into archives. I have family, archives. Last month, I read 32 letters written by my great-grandmother in 1961, and I had to create one composite letter conveying her experience, like a literary piece, rather than just using her letters.  This month, the end of the story is my experience with the repair of the family, and so I actually read yesterday my journal from when I was in Italy in 1994 with my mother, meeting the family and discovering

    Telling Our Truth in Writing with Bella Mahaya Carter
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Creative Alchemy explores the healing properties of creative expression after a cult or other traumatic experience.

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