The Application Security Podcast

Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut
  • 5.0 (35)
  • Technology
  • Biweekly

The Application Security Podcast is a practitioner-led show for anyone building or securing modern software—and now AI-powered applications. Hosts Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut talk with the people shaping application security about AI and LLM security, threat modeling, secure development, OWASP, cloud, DevSecOps, security champions, and building programs that help engineering teams move faster and safer. With more than 300 episodes, the show turns real-world experience into practical guidance for developers, architects, AppSec professionals, and security leaders.

  1. 6d ago

    AppSec Has Never Mattered More: The Time to Exploit Is Now Negative

    When one AI model can find a vulnerability, another can write the exploit, and the gap between discovery and attack is collapsing. Hannah Foxwell, co-founder of BIMP and former product director for Snyk Container, joins Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut to argue that the time to exploit is now effectively negative, and that AppSec has never mattered more. Drawing on her path from release manager to DevOps, platform engineering, and container security, Hannah explains why security teams are facing an identity crisis, why a "dark software factory" with no human checks is a dangerous idea, and why so many AI security startups start with red teaming. The conversation also covers the industry's response to the flood of AI-discovered open source vulnerabilities, what leaders should measure beyond speed, and why empathy is still AppSec's most important tool. This episode is sponsored by Origin. Let your agents work. Keep them in sight. About Origin Origin is an endpoint AI observability platform that inventories, observes, and measures the usage of AI agents at scale. It gives organizations a record of what their agents do across endpoints, so security teams can monitor agent activity, investigate unexpected behavior, and enforce their policies. → Learn more about Origin This episode is sponsored by Corgea. Design it. Build it. Ship it. Corgea secures it. About Corgea Corgea is an AI-native application security platform that secures software from design to production. It brings together security design reviews, AI SAST, dependency and IaC scanning, code quality checks, and autonomous pentesting—helping security and engineering teams find risk earlier, fix what matters, and ship securely. → Learn more about Corgea Connect with Hannah Foxwell: → Hannah Foxwell on LinkedIn → BIMP Mentioned in this episode: → IBM and Red Hat: Project Lightwell → Chainguard's Athena coalition → Linux Foundation: Akrites → Shadow MCP Servers with Vandana Verma Sehgal Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast Chapters: 00:00:00 - Cold open: security teams face an identity crisis 00:00:25 - Meet Hannah Foxwell 00:00:47 - Welcome and Hannah's origin story: from release manager to DevOps 00:06:34 - AI as an architecture partner 00:11:06 - From DevOps and platform engineering to AppSec 00:13:43 - Have we reached AI transformation? 00:15:21 - The dark software factory 00:20:33 - AppSec's identity crisis and the vulnerability tsunami 00:25:14 - Why AI security startups start with red teaming 00:27:31 - Does exploitability still matter? 00:29:07 - The time to exploit is now negative 00:30:16 - AppSec's role when every developer codes with AI 00:33:00 - Security training for agents and stale training data 00:37:54 - Trust, MCP, and layered threats 00:40:30 - Breaking the approval queue bottleneck 00:43:16 - Measuring speed and safety 00:45:41 - One behavior to change 00:47:26 - Wrap up Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast

  2. Oct 19

    Your Developers Are Letting AI Answer Your Security Findings

    Are your developers still reading their security findings, or are their agents answering for them? Ahmad Sadeddin, founder and CEO of Corgea, brings data from Corgea's customers: replies to security comments written with em dashes jumped from 2.5 percent in May to about a third, and once long, verbose replies are counted, somewhere between 35 and 60 percent come from agents. Chris and Ahmad dig into developers using agents to wave off findings as false positives, why commits per PR keep climbing, and what Ahmad calls headless AppSec, where agents review, triage, and fix for other agents. They debate what AI security review really costs, whether non determinism is a dealbreaker when human reviewers were never consistent either, and why roughly 45 percent of developer false positive calls are wrong. This episode is sponsored by Corgea. Design it. Build it. Ship it. Corgea secures it. About Corgea Corgea is an AI-native application security platform that secures software from design to production. It brings together security design reviews, AI SAST, dependency and IaC scanning, code quality checks, and autonomous pentesting—helping security and engineering teams find risk earlier, fix what matters, and ship securely. → Learn more about Corgea Connect with Ahmad Sadeddin: → Corgea → Corgea on LinkedIn Mentioned in this episode: → GitHub stacked pull requests (public preview) → Claude Mythos Preview and Project Glasswing → Corgea Build vs. Buy SAST calculator Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast Chapters: 00:00:00 - Cold open: AppSec is going agent to agent 00:00:21 - Meet Ahmad Sadeddin 00:00:37 - Welcome and a sponsor disclosure 00:01:36 - Ahmad's security origin story 00:02:54 - From payments security to founding Corgea 00:05:01 - Security budget vs. security by design 00:07:57 - Will AppSec miss the boat on AI? 00:09:55 - Security is taste 00:10:49 - You can inform the model, but you can't mandate it 00:12:29 - Where autonomous agents should never run 00:13:53 - Inside Corgea's research on developer responses 00:16:11 - No human uses an em dash 00:17:28 - Good thing or bad thing? 00:18:16 - Weaponizing agents to mark false positives 00:20:41 - Are agents making developers worse at security? 00:22:36 - Long replies put agent responses at 35 to 60 percent 00:24:20 - Non determinism and an overnight agent loop 00:26:15 - The Miss America problem: AI reviews that never stop 00:28:32 - More commits per PR, and why 00:30:40 - Headless AppSec: agents talking to agents 00:32:44 - Token burn and AI budgets 00:34:34 - LLM courage and the real cost of AI security review 00:36:39 - Prediction: AI budgets get scrutiny 00:38:04 - Can AI ever be deterministic? 00:39:14 - Humans aren't deterministic reviewers either 00:41:52 - Takeaway: 45 percent of false positive calls are wrong 00:44:29 - A risk score on every PR 00:46:45 - Canary deployments for AI code review 00:47:28 - Wrap up: measure your own repos Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast

  3. Oct 12

    Shadow MCP Servers: The AI Security Risk Hiding on Your Developers' Laptops

    What happens when a protocol goes from idea to everywhere before security can catch up? Vandana Verma Sehgal, leader of the OWASP MCP Top 10, returns to explain why most organizations cannot say how many MCP servers are running on their developers' machines. She walks Chris and Robert through how MCP turns a chatbot into a new execution layer, how four lines of malicious code in a tiny server can slip past everyone, and why shadow MCP servers are shadow IT with direct access to action. The three debate whether we are missing the window to build AI security in from the start, why consent fatigue is undermining human in the loop, and where command execution really happens. Plus: why a secure MCP server should be boring, and why no MCP server deserves trust on day one. This episode is sponsored by Security Compass. Make modern software development secure, consistent, and provable. About Security Compass AI writes code faster than anyone reviews the design. Threats do not wait for an annual assessment. Security Compass models threats continuously and turns them into requirements developers act on, not a report read after ship. → Learn more about securing the AI-DLC with Security Compass This episode is sponsored by Corgea. Design it. Build it. Ship it. Corgea secures it. About Corgea Corgea is an AI-native application security platform that secures software from design to production. It brings together security design reviews, AI SAST, dependency and IaC scanning, code quality checks, and autonomous pentesting—helping security and engineering teams find risk earlier, fix what matters, and ship securely. → Learn more about Corgea Connect with Vandana Verma Sehgal: → Vandana Verma Sehgal on LinkedIn Mentioned in this episode: → OWASP MCP Top 10 → OWASP MCP Top 10 on GitHub → OWASP Top 10 for Large Language Model Applications → OWASP Top 10 for Agentic Applications for 2026 → OWASP Agentic Skills Top 10 → Model Context Protocol → EU AI Act (Regulation (EU) 2024/1689) → Singapore IMDA: Model AI Governance Framework for Agentic AI Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast Chapters: 00:00:00 - Cold open: with great power comes great responsibility 00:00:20 - Meet Vandana Verma Sehgal 00:00:34 - Welcome and what gets Vandana away from screens 00:03:05 - What is MCP, and why should AppSec teams care now? 00:06:56 - MCP moved faster than any protocol before it 00:10:30 - Are we missing the window to secure AI? 00:12:31 - Harnesses, an AI security manifesto, and the EU AI Act 00:17:50 - Why the world needed an OWASP MCP Top 10 00:21:02 - Where command execution really happens 00:23:57 - How the list was built: community feedback and CVE data 00:26:46 - MCP09: shadow MCP servers 00:29:39 - If you could fix only one: scope creep 00:30:48 - Authentication, authorization, and delegated authority 00:35:24 - Consent fatigue and the human in the loop 00:37:04 - What a secure MCP server looks like: boring by design 00:41:27 - How AppSec teams should engage developers building MCP 00:44:46 - How to contribute to the OWASP MCP Top 10 00:45:41 - Key takeaway: never trust an MCP server on day one Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast

  4. Oct 5

    Your Opinion on AI Doesn't Matter. Learned Fragility Does

    What happens when a tsunami of AI-written code meets a security industry that has spent decades chasing vulnerabilities? Brook S.E. Schoenfield, CTO of Rezliant and author of Securing Systems, returns to warn about "the illusion of omniscient perfection," the cheerful confidence that makes AI output feel finished, and the "learned fragility" that sets in when nobody understands the code anymore. He, Chris, and Robert debate whether an AI threat model that gets 90% of the way there is a win, how Brook now uses AI for reachability analysis, and why prompt injection traces back to a 1975 design principle we ignored. They ask what architecture even means in the age of AI, where the next generation of architects will come from if nobody writes code, and why the collapsing cost of fixes means it's time to stop chasing vulnerabilities. This episode is sponsored by Security Compass. Make modern software development secure, consistent, and provable. About Security Compass AI writes code faster than anyone reviews the design. Threats do not wait for an annual assessment. Security Compass models threats continuously and turns them into requirements developers act on, not a report read after ship. → Learn more about securing the AI-DLC with Security Compass This episode is sponsored by Corgea. Design it. Build it. Ship it. Corgea secures it. About Corgea Corgea is an AI-native application security platform that secures software from design to production. It brings together security design reviews, AI SAST, dependency and IaC scanning, code quality checks, and autonomous pentesting—helping security and engineering teams find risk earlier, fix what matters, and ship securely. → Learn more about Corgea Connect with Brook S.E. Schoenfield: → Brook S.E. Schoenfield on LinkedIn → brookschoenfield.com Mentioned in this episode: → Rezliant → Securing Systems: Applied Security Architecture and Threat Models by Brook S.E. Schoenfield → Saltzer and Schroeder: "The Protection of Information in Computer Systems" (1975) → Izar Tarandach on LinkedIn → Dwarkesh Patel: "The Rise and Fall of Agent Civilizations" (essay on the OpenAI–Hugging Face incident) → Kadrey v. Meta (2025 fair use ruling on AI training) Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast Chapters: 00:00:00 - Cold open — The illusion of omniscient perfection 00:00:48 - Welcome back, Brook S.E. Schoenfield 00:01:51 - AI is writing code and filling the security skills gap 00:06:18 - Can AI threat model as well as the experts? 00:08:46 - Is 90% of the way there good enough? 00:13:47 - Closing one weakness beats chasing perfection 00:16:33 - When AI threat modeling is enough, and when it isn't 00:17:54 - Learned fragility 00:19:26 - Embrace securing AI or be left in the dust 00:23:41 - Against set and forget: agent drift and AI ethics 00:29:30 - What does architecture mean in the age of AI? 00:30:29 - Mixing control and data planes: the root of prompt injection 00:32:49 - Reachability: how Brook threat models with AI today 00:35:08 - Diagram drift and inclusive threat modeling 00:38:46 - Will developers disappear and architects emerge? 00:41:00 - The cost of code has collapsed 00:44:33 - Where will the next architects come from? 00:49:15 - Final thoughts: stop chasing vulnerabilities Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast

  5. Sep 29

    Why AI Code Review Will Replace Human Review Faster Than You Think

    Jim Manico thinks the era of human code review is ending, and that clinging to it will hurt your company. The founder of Manicode Security returns to explain why AI didn't kill AppSec education but supercharged it, why vague prompting on frontier models turns companies into "token furnaces," and why prompt injection is the one genuinely new vulnerability class of the AI era. He walks Chris and Robert through his full AI coding workflow, from reverse engineering an architecture file to security rules and planning-mode build plans that make AI output deterministic. The three debate whether AI will finally eliminate SQL injection, whether AppSec vendors can survive without integrating cyber models, and when humans still need to step in: the moment an agent tries something its policy doesn't allow. Plus: the one habit every security leader should teach developers now. This episode is sponsored by Security Compass. Make modern software development secure, consistent, and provable. About Security Compass AI writes code faster than anyone reviews the design. Threats do not wait for an annual assessment. Security Compass models threats continuously and turns them into requirements developers act on, not a report read after ship. → Learn more about securing the AI-DLC with Security Compass This episode is sponsored by Corgea. Design it. Build it. Ship it. Corgea secures it. About Corgea Corgea is an AI-native application security platform that secures software from design to production. It brings together security design reviews, AI SAST, dependency and IaC scanning, code quality checks, and autonomous pentesting—helping security and engineering teams find risk earlier, fix what matters, and ship securely. → Learn more about Corgea Connect with Jim Manico: → Jim Manico on LinkedIn Mentioned in this episode: → Manicode Security → Manicode Forge → OWASP Artificial Intelligence Security Verification Standard (AISVS) → OWASP AISVS on GitHub → Claude Code → Ollama Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast Chapters: 00:00:00 - Cold open: the era of code review is ending 00:00:47 - Meet Jim Manico 00:01:03 - Welcome and what gets Jim away from screens 00:05:29 - How AI changed developer security education 00:07:03 - Teaching developers to use AI well 00:09:26 - Where AI and AppSec stand: the token furnace 00:12:08 - Separating signal from hype 00:14:24 - Integrate with cyber models or die: the future of AppSec tools 00:18:34 - Are AI coding assistants creating new vulnerabilities? 00:20:02 - Prompt injection: the one truly new class 00:21:15 - Will AI eliminate the OWASP Top 10? 00:24:18 - Local models and Apple's hardware edge 00:28:32 - Jim's AI coding workflow, step by step 00:33:57 - The end of human code review 00:38:31 - Can we trust AI code review, and when do humans step in? 00:44:56 - Where companies really are with AI 00:47:02 - One change for security leaders: planning mode 00:48:19 - Wrap up Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast

  6. Sep 22

    Vulnerability Jail and the AI-Era AppSec Engineer

    Three years ago, Jeevan Singh mapped out what an application security engineer needed to know. AI has rewritten the job since. Jeevan, Director of Security Engineering at Rippling, returns to unpack how his team polices thousands of engineers shipping 10x more code: a "vulnerability jail" that locks non-compliant teams out of the main branch, AI-reviewed extension requests, and homegrown agents that hunt for entire classes of vulnerabilities instead of one bug at a time. He and Chris debate whether AI has killed classic SAST and DAST, whether code review still needs a human in the loop, and whether bug bounty programs still make sense when the researchers on both sides are running the same models. Plus: one concrete move every AppSec leader can make this quarter. This episode is sponsored by Security Compass. Make modern software development secure, consistent, and provable. About Security Compass AI writes code faster than anyone reviews the design. Threats do not wait for an annual assessment. Security Compass models threats continuously and turns them into requirements developers act on, not a report read after ship. → Learn more about securing the AI-DLC with Security Compass This episode is sponsored by Corgea. Design it. Build it. Ship it. Corgea secures it. About Corgea Corgea is an AI-native application security platform that secures software from design to production. It brings together security design reviews, AI SAST, dependency and IaC scanning, code quality checks, and autonomous pentesting—helping security and engineering teams find risk earlier, fix what matters, and ship securely. → Learn more about Corgea Connect with Jeevan Singh: → Jeevan Singh on LinkedIn Mentioned in this episode: → Rippling → Dwarkesh Patel: "The Rise and Fall of Agent Civilizations" (essay on the OpenAI–Hugging Face incident) Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast Chapters: 00:00:00 - Cold open: vulnerability jail 00:00:55 - Meet Jeevan Singh 00:01:11 - Welcome and Robert's AI lab 00:02:37 - What gets Jeevan away from the machines 00:04:51 - Hardware projects with his son 00:06:20 - What's changed for the AppSec engineer since AI 00:08:17 - Shipping production code and fixing whole vulnerability classes 00:09:13 - Why AppSec has to become less collaborative 00:10:02 - From democratized vuln management to vulnerability jail 00:11:50 - How engineering reacted and the feature flag jail precedent 00:14:05 - From manual jail to automated checks 00:15:30 - An AI bot that reviews SLA extensions 00:16:06 - Can AI wipe out an entire vulnerability class? 00:17:36 - Building an anti-SSRF library and rolling it out 00:19:40 - Which AppSec skills matter now 00:22:28 - Validating all that AI-generated code 00:22:57 - Agents that hunt for vulnerability classes 00:24:38 - Is this the death of classic AppSec tools? 00:26:51 - Code review and humans in, on, and out of the loop 00:28:00 - Objective-based agents that find RCEs 00:28:59 - Build vs. buy for AppSec teams 00:31:29 - Advice for teams of one to five AppSec engineers 00:32:58 - Cutting SLAs to 3, 5, 7, and 10 days 00:34:31 - Parachuted in as the only AppSec engineer 00:37:59 - One investment to make this quarter 00:39:09 - The Hugging Face and OpenAI agent incident 00:40:13 - Is bug bounty dead? 00:42:19 - Key takeaways: be an engineer, run toward AI 00:43:53 - Wrap-up Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast

  7. Sep 15

    How Agentic AI Fails—and Which Controls Actually Stop It

    Most fault trees get built on gut feeling. Petra Vukmirovic did something rarer: she borrowed the actual math from aviation and nuclear-plant safety engineering and pointed it at AI agents. Petra traded emergency medicine for application security and now heads information security at Numan — and she joins Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut to make the case for fault tree analysis (FTA), the deductive method that picks up exactly where threat modeling stops. Petra walks through a "wrong customer refund" AI agent scenario step by step, showing how AND/OR gates and minimal cut sets turn vague worry into ranked, data backed probabilities. They dig into where AI helps build a tree, and where garbage in, garbage out still applies, why "comprehensive test coverage" is a myth, and how attaching real dollar figures to failure paths makes it easier to sell security controls to leadership. This episode is sponsored by Corgea. Design it. Build it. Ship it. Corgea secures it. About Corgea Corgea is an AI-native application security platform that secures software from design to production. It brings together security design reviews, AI SAST, dependency and IaC scanning, code quality checks, and autonomous pentesting—helping security and engineering teams find risk earlier, fix what matters, and ship securely. → Learn more about Corgea Connect with Petra Vukmirovic: → Petra Vukmirovic on LinkedIn → OWASP Threat Model Library Mentioned in this episode: → Adam Shostack: "Stop Trying to 'Manage Risk'" (keynote) → OWASP Global AppSec USA 2026 (San Francisco, Nov 5–6) Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast Chapters: 00:00 Cold open — the math behind where to put your controls 01:09 Meet Petra Vukmirovic 01:28 Petra's origin story: from ER doctor to AppSec 02:50 Career path: engineer to Head of InfoSec at Numan 04:18 What is fault tree analysis, and where threat modeling ends 06:22 Can AI actually do fault tree analysis? 08:12 Walking the "wrong customer refund" agent example 12:33 Storing your trees: JSON vs. Markdown 16:08 Why conjunctive failures trip up narrow thinking 17:27 Top 3 failure modes when agents touch downstream systems 19:29 Real story: an agent pushed code to main without approval 21:27 Testing: why "comprehensive coverage" is a myth 23:54 How rough is rough? Assigning probabilities 28:08 Getting started without a six week science project 31:35 Using FTA to sell controls and build credibility 33:43 The epiphany: FTA is about controls, not faults 34:48 The one thing every agentic team should add today 35:48 Closing thoughts and OWASP Global AppSec USA preview Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast

  8. Sep 7

    Your AppSec Bottleneck Is a People Problem

    Most security champions programs don't fail on tooling — they fail on people. Lisi Hocke spent three years as a champion before moving fully into product security, which means she has argued both sides of this from inside the trenches. Drawing on the talk she and Mireia Cano gave at OWASP Global AppSec EU 2026, Lisi walks us through the four things that actually make these programs work: psychological safety first, then cognitive load, then influence when you hold no formal authority, then a champions community so the whole thing doesn't stall the week security goes on vacation. We also get into cutting security wait times, winning organizational support, what AI does and doesn't change here, and why she will tell you never to record the champions meeting. This episode is sponsored by Corgea. Design it. Build it. Ship it. Corgea secures it. About Corgea Corgea is an AI-native application security platform that secures software from design to production. It brings together security design reviews, AI SAST, dependency and IaC scanning, code quality checks, and autonomous pentesting—helping security and engineering teams find risk earlier, fix what matters, and ship securely. → Learn more about Corgea Connect with Lisi Hocke: → Lisi Hocke on LinkedIn → A Tester's Journey — Lisi's blog Mentioned in this episode: → Slides: Security Champions — Lessons from Opposite Trenches (with Mireia Cano) → OWASP Juice Shop Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast Chapters: 00:00 Cold open — what psychological safety actually means 00:56 Meet Lisi Hocke 02:25 Lisi's security origin story 05:42 "That place was taken" — becoming a champion anyway 07:39 Moving into a full-time product security role 08:39 Meeting Björn Kimminich, the Juice Shop project lead 09:23 Why role play instead of a normal conference talk 12:27 Security and development, disconnected 14:19 The first full-time security role 15:14 Making people wait is the real damage 17:10 Cutting the backlog and the turnaround time 19:31 What Lisi got dead wrong 20:08 What testing and quality work taught her 21:31 The four things that make champions programs work 22:07 One: fostering psychological safety 24:50 Champions without their manager's blessing 28:45 Two: managing cognitive load 29:46 Three kinds of load, and which one to cut 31:21 Three: power sources when you have no formal authority 33:03 Four: build a champions community 34:38 Keeping security people from burning out 36:37 How AI changes who you recruit and what you need 39:32 Should AI change champions programs at all? 40:33 Psychological safety when a bot joins the meeting 42:25 Don't record the champions meetings 43:26 Programs that outlive the person who started them 45:59 Key takeaway and homework 47:21 Closing thoughts Follow the Application Security Podcast: ➜ Home: appsecpodcast.com ➜ X: @AppSecPodcast ➜ LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast ➜ YouTube: @ApplicationSecurityPodcast ➜ Instagram: @appsecpodcast ➜ Facebook: Application Security Podcast

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5
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About

The Application Security Podcast is a practitioner-led show for anyone building or securing modern software—and now AI-powered applications. Hosts Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut talk with the people shaping application security about AI and LLM security, threat modeling, secure development, OWASP, cloud, DevSecOps, security champions, and building programs that help engineering teams move faster and safer. With more than 300 episodes, the show turns real-world experience into practical guidance for developers, architects, AppSec professionals, and security leaders.

Information

  • Creator
    Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut
  • Years Active
    2016 - 2026
  • Episodes
    315
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The Application Security Podcast
  • Show Website
    The Application Security Podcast

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