Stephan Livera Podcast

Stephan Livera

In-depth Bitcoin interviews and education. Stephan Livera talks with the builders, developers, founders and thinkers shaping Bitcoin, covering self-custody, Lightning, payments, mining, markets and where Bitcoin goes next. Clear, practical conversations to help you understand Bitcoin and use it well.

  1. 22h ago

    Debanking and Bitcoin Business Accounts in the EU | Prashanth Chandrashekar SLP782

    Prashanth Chandrashekar argues that much of Europe's debanking comes down to how banks score transfers. Money arriving from a crypto exchange's account is treated as a higher-risk third-party payment, while a transfer between two accounts in your own name passes with far fewer flags. Bringin's answer is a named virtual IBAN for each customer, which he says lowers the risk of being debanked rather than removing it. Prashanth, who is from India, started Bringin after moving to Estonia holding Bitcoin and finding he couldn't easily spend it. He now runs the company's consumer app and its new business accounts. They cover MiCA's licensing reset, which by his figures left only about 30% of earlier firms licensed but lets the survivors passport across the EU; accounts closed without explanation under tipping-off rules; and how named IBANs differ from the deposit IBANs exchanges hand out. On the consumer wallet, built on Spark, he is direct about the trade-offs: operators are mostly centralized and can see payments, though they cannot move funds alone. On Bringin for Business, he describes pilot users such as mining-rig sellers paying suppliers abroad, plus stablecoin support and accounting exports. The custody model differs from the consumer app: keys sit in a hosted Turnkey enclave with spending policies, Bringin holds an extra key in multi-director setups, seed export is discouraged, and ownership changes run through Bringin's backend. Third-party euro payments were promised within days of recording, and corporate cards are not yet available. Disclosure: Stephan is a small investor in and advisor to Bringin. Timestamps: 00:00 — Intro 00:37 — MiCA: Costly but Passportable 03:28 — Debanking: Why Banks Block Exchange Flows 07:04 — Named vIBANs vs Exchange Deposit IBANs 11:25 — Spark Self-Custody and Its Trust Trade-offs 13:03 — Why Banks Are Harder on Businesses 15:22 — Who Joined the Business Pilot 18:08 — Beyond Debanking: Accounting Headaches 20:31 — Business Keys in Turnkey Enclaves 24:53 — Key Rotation Runs Through Bringin's Backend 26:24 — Roadmap: Third-Party Payments, No Cards Yet 30:45 — Next Customers: Stablecoins and Agents 33:31 — Regulation Outlook: DAC8 and Data Risk 34:39 — AI Agents, MCP, and Payments Links:  https://x.com/prashanthc123 https://x.com/bringinxyz https://bringin.app/business Stephan Livera links: Follow me on X: @stephanlivera Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to Substack

  2. Oct 8

    Seed Phrases vs Key Sharding: Multisig's UX Trade-offs | Setzeus SLP781

    Setzeus argues that 90% of people will never properly use seed phrases and hardware wallets, and that services like Privy and Turnkey, which split a key behind an email or phone login, are a good-enough floor for self-custody. Stephan pushes back on what that gives up: verifiability, portability across devices, and a degree of vendor lock-in. Setzeus (Jesus Najera) runs SetDev, a Bitcoin L2 and metaprotocol engineering and security shop whose biggest client has been Stacks. He built BitScript and founded Cofund, a cross-chain multisig web app aimed at families, fiduciaries, and founders. The conversation opens on the recent run of hacks, including the Coldcard incident, and his view that the cryptography is not broken but AI has made attacks on everything around it cheaper. They cover Justin Drake's "bunker mode" post, why Bitcoin builders get nerd-sniped by technology over product, why multisig adoption remains small, and whether ETFs are better than nothing for people who won't self-custody. On Cofund itself, Setzeus explains spending policies built from signer sets, thresholds, and rules on Taproot script paths. He is plain about the limits: on Bitcoin only the signer set is enforced on-chain, spend caps rely on the client without covenants, rotating a signer means moving funds to a new set, and the free tier charges a 1% transaction fee. Timestamps: 00:00 — Intro 00:37 — From SetDev's L2 Work to Multisig 03:20 — After the Coldcard Hack: Why Self-Custody? 07:56 — Justin Drake's Bunker Mode and ECDSA 10:13 — Are Bitcoiners Bad at Building Products? 15:59 — Seed Phrases vs Privy-Style Key Sharding 20:25 — Trade-offs: Verifiability and Lock-In 25:35 — Recommending Self-Custody After Hacks 30:40 — Families, Fiduciaries, and Founders 34:25 — Spending Policies via Taproot Script Paths 37:24 — Limit: Bitcoin Spend Caps Not On-Chain 39:59 — Key Rotation Means Moving Funds 41:11 — Cofund Pricing and Fees 42:03 — Thesis: Multisig Becomes Joint Accounts Links:  https://x.com/getcofund https://x.com/setzeus https://getcofund.com/ Stephan Livera links: Follow me on X: @stephanlivera Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to Substack

  3. Oct 5

    Smarter Web's Capital Structure and MORE Preferred | Andrew Webley SLP780

    Andrew Webley walks through Smarter Web's capital structure—ordinary shares as growth equity, a repaid short convert, Coinbase credit, and MORE as the income preferred. Webley is CEO of The Smarter Web Company (LSE: SWC), the UK's largest publicly traded Bitcoin treasury. He traces the path from Hargreaves Lansdown to listing on Aquis, then the LSE Main Market, while building toward roughly 2,747 BTC on the balance sheet. The conversation covers ordinary shares versus preferred equity, why SWC repaid its short convert, how the Coinbase credit facility fits a "buy leverage when cheap" playbook, and the launch of MORE—an income preferred designed alongside SWC growth equity. Webley contrasts treasury companies with ETFs and spot Bitcoin, stressing Bitcoin-per-share growth, liquidity for institutions, and GBP denomination without US dividend withholding. He also flags the downsides: treasury structures amplify Bitcoin volatility, management can mess up capital allocation, and in a drawdown there is no guarantee that equity, credit, or preferreds will be available. Timestamps: 00:00 — Intro 00:25 — Hargreaves Lansdown to Smarter Web 02:09 — Saylor Pivot Was His Bitcoin Moment 04:00 — Listing the UK Treasury Play 08:44 — Clean Balance Sheet Structure 11:25 — Coinbase Credit at the Bottom 14:32 — Debt vs NAV Reporting 19:45 — Bitcoin-per-Share vs Total Return 21:32 — How Institutions Actually Buy 25:02 — Treasury Co vs ETF vs Bitcoin 28:12 — MORE Preferred Equity Explained 30:17 — Amplification Cap at 35% 33:11 — Sterling Preferred Advantage 37:49 — Downside Risks: Volatility and Execution 40:27 — Drawdowns and Uncertain Capital Access Links:  https://x.com/asjwebley https://x.com/smarterwebuk https://www.smarterwebcompany.co.uk/ Stephan Livera links: Follow me on X: @stephanlivera Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to Substack

  4. Oct 3

    Lightning in x402 and Agent Payments | Ben Carman SLP779

    Bitcoiners built L402 for a Lightning-native web. Crypto built x402 for agents — and early volume is mostly stables. Ben Carman helped get Lightning into the x402 standard, and argues the pragmatic move is to meet that stack in the middle rather than wait for L402 alone. Ben Carman of Spiral rejoin me to unpack HTTP 402 Payment Required, facilitators versus Coinbase Commerce, why agentic payments are still near zero today, and why AI agents may adopt Bitcoin faster than humans — because models already know sats, invoices, and QR codes. Timestamps: 00:00 — Intro 00:50 — L402, x402, and MPP 01:09 — What HTTP 402 Actually Is 02:41 — Meet x402 in the Middle 03:44 — Facilitators and Coinbase Default 06:06 — x402 Standard vs Coinbase Commerce 07:26 — Stables Dominate Early Volume 08:03 — Agentic Payments Still Near Zero 08:55 — Agents Already Know Bitcoin 12:05 — Personal Agents vs B2B Agents 13:03 — Pay-Per-Query Agent Wallets 16:14 — Businesses on Bitcoin Are Easier 16:39 — AI Climb and Builder Craft 22:29 — Won't Fund OpenAI — Still Uses Them 25:38 — Cost Deflation = Human Freedom 28:57 — Best AI tools as of Oct 2 31:16 — Terminal Bench and Real Evals 32:25 — Bench Maxing vs Real Feel 34:59 — Four Years From ChatGPT 36:56 — Quantization Without the LARPs 39:51 — Mesh Alliance and Mesh LLM 42:37 — Goose, LDK, Think Big Links:  https://x.com/benthecarman https://x.com/spiral_xyz Stephan Livera links: Follow me on X: @stephanlivera Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to Substack

  5. Oct 1

    Why Bitkey Ditched Seed Phrases | Clay Garrett SLP778

    Bitkey ditched seed phrases for a recovery-focused 2-of-3 design: an app key, hardware key, and Block server key that use phones, hardware, and cloud access to help people retain control of their funds. Clay Garrett, Bitkey lead at Block, joins Stephan Livera to explain the design trade-offs: safety as security plus recoverability, cloud backup that needs your hardware to decrypt, and why Bitkey does not treat vendor lock-in as its ethos. They dig into recovery paths, multi-vendor trade-offs, transfer-without-hardware limits, Recovery Contacts and inheritance, a working FROST prototype, what covenants could move on-chain, chain code delegation, and privacy-conscious Electrum options. Timestamps: 00:00 — Intro 00:19 — Clay Garrett Joins — Bitkey at Block 00:56 — Bitkey V2 and the 2-of-3 Model 03:03 — Safety Means Access and Recoverability 04:11 — App+Hardware Spends Without Block 07:09 — Cloud Backup and Instant Phone Swap 09:27 — Lost Hardware and the 7-Day Delay 12:14 — Vendor Lock Is Temporary, Not Ethos 15:44 — Multi-Vendor After Coldcard 21:20 — Which Wallet Fits Your Threat Model? 26:49 — $5 Wrench and Transfer Without Hardware 30:04 — Recovery Contacts and Inheritance 36:06 — FROST Prototype Already in the Repo 38:04 — On-Chain Looks Like Single-Sig 39:34 — Covenants Could Move Policy On-Chain 42:09 — Chain Code Delegation — BIP 89 46:10 — Electrum, Mempool, and Custom Servers 52:08 — Industry After Coldcard Changed 55:21 — Wallet Plus Free-for-Life Co-Signing Links:  https://x.com/clay_garrett https://bitkey.world/ Stephan Livera links: Follow me on X: @stephanlivera Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to Substack

  6. Sep 29

    Bitcoin Savings vs Casino Exchanges | Julian Liniger SLP777

    Most crypto exchanges are built like casinos: they chase the next hot token, prediction market, or trading product. Relai is building a different category—a savings brand for people who want to accumulate Bitcoin, hold it in self-custody, and build wealth over the long run. Julian Liniger explains why serving patient savers requires a different product, message, and business model. The conversation also explores why rising living costs are pushing Europeans to rethink ordinary savings, and why the temptation to get rich quickly can drive people toward momentum trading and leverage. Julian makes the case for a longer time horizon: Bitcoin savings is less about chasing the next move and more about consistently building a position through changing market conditions. Supporting context includes Relai's MiCA compliance journey, where regulatory overhead is costly but can also raise the bar for smaller competitors. Julian also discusses the company's self-custody model and reports more than 100,000 users holding over 20,000 BTC in their own wallets—not under Relai management. The episode covers how a Bitcoin-only company can earn revenue through services around long-term ownership while keeping the savings proposition at the center. Timestamps: 00:01 — Europe's Cost of Living Squeeze 03:11 — Why Europeans Still Don't Get Bitcoin 07:37 — High Time Preference & Get-Rich-Quick 10:31 — Bitcoin Needs Patience Again 10:54 — AI Hype vs Bitcoin as Savings 14:58 — Bitcoin Is Where You Keep Your Winnings 21:42 — Leverage, Treasury Cos & Risk 23:46 — Relai Private Loans in Europe 29:03 — MiCA: Overhead and Moat 33:11 — Bitcoin Savings vs Casino Exchanges 35:26 — 100k Users, 20k+ BTC Self-Custody 37:49 — Retail App vs Relai Private 40:00 — Self-Custody Phone Wallet 42:58 — Seven-Figure Raise in a Bear Market 45:12 — AI for Building and Securing Relai 50:00 — Living Costs Drive Bitcoin Search Links:  https://x.com/julian_liniger https://x.com/relai_app Stephan Livera links: Follow me on X: @stephanlivera Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to Substack

  7. Sep 24

    Bitcoin PIPEs v2 | Misha Komarov SLP776

    Bitcoin soft-fork debates around CTV, CSFS, OP_CAT, and OP_VAULT keep stalling — and Misha Komarov of Allocinit argues you can emulate much of that covenant behavior with cryptography instead of changing consensus. Misha joins Stephan to unpack Bitcoin PIPEs v2: a Witness Encryption design that locks a signing key under an NP statement so a valid zero-knowledge proof decrypts the key and produces an ordinary Schnorr spend. Bitcoin L1 only checks a normal signature. They compare PIPEs v1 (Functional Encryption / richer post-covenants) with v2 (Witness Encryption / binary pre-covenants), ciphertext sizes from ~300 TB toward single-digit terabytes, DKG and 1-of-n setup assumptions, non-custodial vault and shared-pool use cases, contrasts with cosigner models like Sigbash, and how Allocinit’s Shielded Bitcoin design differs from Shielded CSV’s client-side validation approach — plus open cryptanalysis challenges and a path toward implementable code. Timestamps: 00:00 — Intro: Misha & Bitcoin PIPEs v2 00:27 — Background: BitMessage to =nil; 01:31 — Soft-Fork Fatigue & Nice-to-Haves 03:24 — Emulate Opcodes Without Soft Forks 04:54 — Witness Encryption Unlocks Keys 06:01 — Witness Encryption vs Bitcoin Witness 09:00 — PIPEs v1 vs v2: FE to WE 11:39 — Ciphertext Size & Cost Trade-offs 15:28 — Vaults as the Unhappy Path 16:23 — PIPEs vs Sigbash Cosigner 18:05 — DKG Setup & 1-of-n Trust 21:11 — Shared Vaults & Lending Use Cases 23:24 — Beyond Canonical OP_VAULT 26:35 — Shielded Bitcoin vs Shielded CSV 32:17 — Self-Custody Peg-In and Peg-Out 37:14 — On-Chain Footprint Walkthrough 39:42 — Security Challenges & Code Roadmap Links:  https://x.com/nemothenoone https://x.com/allocinitxyz Stephan Livera links: Follow me on X: @stephanlivera Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to Substack

  8. Sep 24

    rbitcoin: Bitcoin Full Node With Zero Human Code | reardencode SLP775

    Almost every public Bitcoin node still runs Bitcoin Core. Brandon Black argues that client monoculture is a systemic risk — and that automation plus AI now make independent consensus implementations more realistic than skeptics assume. Brandon (aka reardencode) returns to Stephan Livera Podcast for the first episode in a mini-series on non-Core Bitcoin implementations. He is shipping rbitcoin, a Rust full node aimed at server-side wallet and Lightning backends, with Electrum served in-process. They dig into why rbitcoin has no UTXO set and no Core-style dbcache, how build-time differential testing differs from satd’s in-process libbitcoinconsensus dual-eval, BIP324 v2-only P2P, archival storage tradeoffs, LibreRelay-inspired policy, and what “production-ready™” means when every first-party line was written by AI under his prompting. Brandon is blunt about maturity: the project is still early, contributors are welcome at rbitcoin.org, and listeners should treat alt clients as high-scrutiny infrastructure — not a drop-in replacement for Core tomorrow. Timestamps: 00:00 — Intro: Brandon Black & rbitcoin 00:34 — Why Build rbitcoin 03:46 — Alt Clients Mini-Series 04:39 — Consensus Divergence Risk 05:53 — satd vs rbitcoin Paths 06:51 — Automation Makes Diversity Possible 08:29 — Build-Time Differential Testing 09:20 — Why Consensus Bugs Matter 10:55 — Lessons from btcd Divergences 13:35 — Target User: Wallet Backends 15:29 — Miners Leave the Non-Goal List 16:47 — Kill the dbcache Model 20:50 — Electrum In-Process 22:23 — Silent Payments & Tor 23:01 — BIP324 v2-Only P2P 23:46 — AI-Coded: Zero Human Lines 25:04 — Grok Plus Multi-Model Review 27:01 — DoS Rules & LibreRelay 28:34 — Upgrade Hooks 29:34 — Archive-Only, No 'UTXO Set' 31:50 — AI as the New Compiler 33:52 — Context Limits & Dependencies 38:06 — rust-bitcoin Relationship 39:08 — Wallet Infra Opportunity 40:00 — Still 10% a Joke 41:35 — Future of Client Diversity 44:50 — Outro: rbitcoin.org Links:  https://x.com/reardencode https://rbitcoin.org/ Stephan Livera links: Follow me on X: @stephanlivera Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to Substack

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About

In-depth Bitcoin interviews and education. Stephan Livera talks with the builders, developers, founders and thinkers shaping Bitcoin, covering self-custody, Lightning, payments, mining, markets and where Bitcoin goes next. Clear, practical conversations to help you understand Bitcoin and use it well.

Information

  • Creator
    Stephan Livera
  • Years Active
    2018 - 2026
  • Episodes
    782
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Stephan Livera
  • Show Website
    Stephan Livera Podcast

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