Terror Talk: True Crime, Serial Killers and Horror

Shannon & Cathy | Terror Talk

Terror Talk is a true crime and horror podcast hosted by two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, dissecting serial killers, psychopaths, and the dark minds behind true crime and horror cinema. Shannon (PhD, LMFT) and Cathy (PhD, forensic psychology). 600+ episodes on serial killer psychology, criminal profiling, cold cases, unsolved murders, cults, coercive control, narcissism, and the horror movies two therapists review every week. Expert clinical insight. Genuine dark humor. New episodes every week. Follow now and join us on Patreon. Lock your doors. 🔒

  1. 5d ago

    CULTS: Lori Vallow Daybell, NXIVM & the Zizians Part 3

    If knowing about cognitive bias could protect you from a cult, why didn't it protect the Zizians? ⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode includes discussions of murder, the murder of children, suicide, sexual coercion and branding, coercive control and cult trauma. Listener discretion is advised. Lori Vallow Daybell in Idaho and Arizona, Keith Raniere's NXIVM in Albany, New York, and Ziz LaSota's Zizians in the San Francisco Bay Area: a cult of two, a self-help company and a network of rationalists who believed they were the smartest people in any room. Therapists Shannon and Cathy close the Cults series by asking whether anything about modern cults is new, or whether it's the same mechanism in a new costume, and what actually protects you. CHAPTERS: 0:00 The most rational people in the room 0:59 Cults Part 3: same mechanism, new costume 2:28 Bounded choice: why didn't they just leave? 4:23 Coercive control, Biderman and a sheriff's department case 10:31 Hillman's soul loss and open door moments 13:55 Lori Vallow Daybell: the cult of two 20:08 NXIVM and Keith Raniere 29:09 The Zizians, and two corrections to Part 1 37:43 Why knowing about bias didn't help 40:57 What changed and what didn't 42:33 What actually protects you IN THIS EPISODE: - Janja Lalich's bounded choice, from inside the Democratic Workers' Party - Evan Stark's coercive control and Biderman's chart of coercion - Cathy on coercive control at a systemic level in the LA Sheriff's Department - Why cults recruit capable people at open door moments, not weak ones - Zombies, JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan, and spiritual reclassification - DOS, collateral and the brand as the point of no return - Therapy speak as moral justification, and a Teal Swan callback - Vegan anarcho-transhumanism, unihemispheric sleep and a leader with no title - Six deaths: Vallejo, Chester Heights, Vallejo again and Coventry, Vermont - Why marginalization, not identity, is the vulnerability - Keep one relationship the group does not control CLINICAL TERMS: bounded choice, coercive control, entrapment, chart of coercion, DDD syndrome, thought reform, loaded language, doctrine over person, milieu control, commitment and consistency, moral disengagement, dehumanization, cognitive dissonance, mana personality, participation mystique, soul loss, escape from freedom, love bombing CORRECTIONS TO PART 1: - The six deaths linked to the Zizians were three in 2022 and three in 2025, not 2025 and 2026. - We've retired "undead" and "p-zombie" as descriptions of Zizian doctrine until they're better sourced. - Everyone charged in the Zizian cases is presumed innocent. SERIES: Cults Part 3 of 3. Part 1: CULTS: Heaven's Gate, the Zizians & Jonestown Part 1. Part 2: CULTS: Charles Manson, the Solar Temple & Adolfo Constanzo Part 2. Related Episodes: Season 3 Episode 9 Published Sept. 30, 2020• CULTS: Lori Vallow Daybell & Chad Daybell — The Doomsday Couple RESOURCE: If you recognize yourself or someone you love, the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA) lists therapists experienced with former members. SOURCES: Lalich (2004) Bounded Choice · Stark (2007) Coercive Control · Biderman (1957) · Farber, Harlow & West (1957) · Hillman (1975) Re-Visioning Psychology · Moore (1992) Care of the Soul · Sottile (2022) When the Moon Turns to Blood · US DOJ · The Vow (HBO) · San Francisco Chronicle. Full APA list on Patreon. Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes. PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/cw/terrortalk 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/ 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newterrortalkpodcast 🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dark.psychology.girls?_r=18_t=ZT-99iWlxm05in 🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

  2. Oct 1

    CULTS: Charles Manson, the Solar Temple & Adolfo Constanzo Part 2

    Why would members of the Order of the Solar Temple kill a three-month-old baby they had never met? ⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode includes discussions of murder, ritual killing, the murder of an infant and of children, mass death, cult trauma and coercive control. Listener discretion is advised. In 1994 the Order of the Solar Temple, led by Joseph Di Mambro and Luc Jouret, killed a baby in Morin-Heights, Quebec because his name made him the Antichrist, then left 53 dead across Switzerland and Canada. Cults Part 2 follows the same question through Adolfo Constanzo's Narcosatánicos in Matamoros, Mexico and Charles Manson's Family in Los Angeles. Therapists Shannon and Cathy ask what changes psychologically when the killing is the ritual, and why the victim in a ritual murder is never really the target. CHAPTERS: 0:00 A baby called the Antichrist 1:02 From Part 1 to ritual murder 2:03 Ritual as the delivery system for moral disengagement 5:04 Expressive or instrumental: where ritual murder fits 11:20 Milgram, participation mystique and Hillman 20:18 The Order of the Solar Temple 28:30 Adolfo Constanzo and the Matamoros killings 35:16 Charles Manson and the Tate-LaBianca murders 46:35 What makes ritual murder different 49:34 Coming up in Part 3 IN THIS EPISODE: - Three ways ritual moves agency, turns a victim into a symbol and dissolves the self into the group - Milgram's obedience variations: 65%, 92.5% when someone else throws the switch, 10% when two peers refuse - Gina Perry's archive work and Haslam and Reicher's identification reading - Jung's participation mystique, from stadiums to robes in a circle - The Solar Temple: Cheiry, Salvan, the cosmic child and 74 dead by 1997 - Constanzo, Sara Aldrete, Mark Kilroy and the checkpoint that broke the case - Palo Mayombe as a legitimate Afro-Cuban tradition Constanzo distorted - Why Manson was not at Cielo Drive, and why that matters - The Stanford Prison Experiment and what survives the critiques - PIG on the door: dehumanization that happened in language weeks before CLINICAL TERMS: ritual murder, moral disengagement, displacement and diffusion of responsibility, dehumanization, expressive and instrumental homicide, obedience to authority, participation mystique, soul loss, thought reform, social proof, cognitive dissonance, mana personality, self-dissolution, situational evil CORRECTIONS: - Luc Jouret was the Solar Temple's co-founder and public face, not Emmanuelle's mother. Her mother was Dominique Bellaton. - The Solar Temple member was the mayor of Richelieu, Quebec, not the mayor of Quebec. - Le Texier's critique of the Stanford Prison Experiment ran in American Psychologist in 2019, not 2007. - Bugliosi and Gentry's Helter Skelter (1974) is nonfiction, not a novel. SERIES: Cults Part 2 of 3. Part 1: CULTS: Heaven's Gate, the Zizians & Jonestown Part 1. Part 3: a brand burned into a woman's skin, a mother who decided her children were zombies, and the full story of the Zizians. SOURCES: Milgram (1974) Obedience to Authority · Perry (2012) Behind the Shock Machine · Haslam & Reicher (2012) PLoS Biology · Salfati (2000) Homicide Studies · Le Texier (2019) American Psychologist · Reicher & Haslam (2006) British Journal of Social Psychology · Zimbardo (2007) The Lucifer Effect · Bugliosi & Gentry (1974) Helter Skelter. Full APA list on Patreon. Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes. 🎧 LISTEN TO THE FULL PODCAST APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/terror-talk-true-crime-serial-killers-and-horror/id1435529687 SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/07JEm5Qm7cohukkEUOYt7P PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/cw/terrortalk 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/ 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newterrortalkpodcast 🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dark.psychology.girls?_r=18_t=ZT-99iWlxm05in 🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

  3. Sep 24

    PSYCHOLOGY: Are You Dating a Psychopath? Love Bombing and Gaslighting

    Have you ever left a relationship more confused about yourself than about the person you were with? ⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode includes discussions of emotional abuse, coercive control, gaslighting and intimate partner violence. Listener discretion is advised. Therapists Shannon and Cathy open Season 9 with the question everyone asks and almost nobody asks clinically: what does it actually mean to call someone a psychopath, and what does it feel like to be in a relationship with one? This is not a diagnostic checklist for your partner. It is a map of a pattern, from the inside. IN THIS EPISODE: - Why psychopathy is not a DSM diagnosis, and what antisocial personality disorder actually covers - Robert Hare and the PCL-R, the Hare Psychopathy Checklist Revised - Factor 1, the interpersonal and affective traits: glibness, charm, grandiosity, shallow affect, no remorse - Factor 2, the antisocial lifestyle traits: need for stimulation, impulsivity, irresponsibility, early behavioral patterns - Prevalence: under 1% of the general population, roughly 25% of incarcerated populations - Subclinical or "successful" psychopathy, and Snakes in Suits by Paul Babiak and Robert Hare - Why corporate, legal, political and even mental health environments show elevated rates - The honeymoon phase: love bombing, mirroring and future faking - Why mirroring works, and why it is a performance rather than recognition - The shift: devaluation, intermittent reinforcement, gaslighting and isolation - The slot machine effect, and why unpredictable reward builds anxious attachment - What gaslighting actually is, and how "you should get some therapy" gets weaponized - Why an outsider can see it and the person inside cannot - Trauma bonding as a neurobiological response, not a weakness - Why couples therapy is contraindicated, and what to ask a couple's therapist before you start - Safety planning, and why leaving is the most dangerous period even without physical violence - Trauma informed care, somatic approaches, trauma focused CBT and EMDR - Karin Huffer's work on Legal Abuse Syndrome, and litigation as a tool of control - The closing thought: the grief is real, even though the relationship wasn't CLINICAL TERMS: psychopathy, antisocial personality disorder, PCL-R, Hare Psychopathy Checklist, narcissism, sociopathy, coercive control, love bombing, mirroring, future faking, devaluation, intermittent reinforcement, gaslighting, isolation, triangulation, trauma bonding, anxious attachment, betrayal trauma, plausible deniability, safety planning, EMDR RELATED EPISODES: Stalking, Surveillance and Coercive Control Parts 1 and 2 · How to Identify a Narcissist · Spiritual Narcissism: Twin Flames on Fire · CULTS: Heaven's Gate, the Zizians and Jonestown Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes. 🎧 LISTEN TO THE FULL PODCAST APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/terror-talk-true-crime-serial-killers-and-horror/id1435529687 SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/07JEm5Qm7cohukkEUOYt7P PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/cw/terrortalk 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/ 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newterrortalkpodcast 🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dark.psychology.girls?_r=18_t=ZT-99iWlxm05in 🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

  4. Sep 16

    TRUE CRIME DOCUMENTARIES: Charles Manson, EDP445 & The Hillside Strangler

    Six documentaries, two therapists, and one question running under all of them: what does the camera do to a case? Shannon takes Betrayal: Dirty Secrets, EDP445: The Sick Mind, and Joe Berlinger's Conversations with a Killer: The Charles Manson Tapes. Cathy takes The Hillside Strangler, Maternal Instinct, and The Crash. ⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode includes discussions of child predation, violence against a pregnant woman, sexual assault and murder. Listener discretion is advised. SHANNON'S THREE Betrayal: Dirty Secrets (Hulu). Colorado Springs police officer Joel Kern held a decorated career and a family man image while running a secret sexual double life with roughly fifty people, using his badge and his schedule as cover. His wife Karoline found out while their daughter was hospitalized. He retired before he could be fired, kept his pension, and was never charged. EDP445: The Sick Mind. Bryant Moreland, a YouTube sports commentator with millions of subscribers, caught in a sting run by the vigilante group Predator Poachers. The clinical ground here is parasocial attachment, predatory persona construction, and the uncomfortable question of what vigilante predator catching actually accomplishes. Conversations with a Killer: The Charles Manson Tapes (Netflix). Berlinger's fifth and final entry, built from 137 previously unheard prison phone calls Manson made to a retired detective across the last nine years of his life. Survivors are centered: Dianne Lake, Catherine Share, Stephanie Schram. One detail stays with you. Manson learned his mind control technique from Dale Carnegie. CATHY'S THREE The Hillside Strangler (MGM+). Kenneth Bianchi and Angelo Buono killed ten women and girls across Los Angeles in 1977 and 1978. The first on camera interview with Bianchi, and the first-time lead detective Frank Salerno has spoken publicly in over forty years. Bianchi claimed amnesia, submitted to hypnosis, argued his confessions were fabricated, then turned on Buono. Watch how a man relates to his own story across four decades. Maternal Instinct (Netflix). Taylor Parker faked a pregnancy for months, with a silicone belly, false ultrasounds and a gender reveal party, then murdered Reagan Simmons-Hancock, who was thirty-five weeks pregnant. She is the youngest woman on Texas death row. This one is genuinely difficult. The Crash (Netflix). Seventeen-year-old Mackenzie Shirilla drove into a brick building at over a hundred miles an hour, killing her boyfriend and his friend. No skid marks, no braking. Convicted of murder as an adult. All six are streaming now, and the discussion is better if you have already formed an opinion. Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes. 🎧 LISTEN TO THE FULL PODCAST APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/terror-talk-true-crime-serial-killers-and-horror/id1435529687 SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/07JEm5Qm7cohukkEUOYt7P PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/cw/terrortalk 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/ 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newterrortalkpodcast 🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dark.psychology.girls?_r=18_t=ZT-99iWlxm05in 🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

  5. Sep 2

    CULTS: Heaven's Gate, the Zizians & Jonestown Part 1

    How does a nurse, a teacher, a software engineer end up participating in mass death? Shannon walks Cathy through the clinical pathway that turns ordinary people into killers using Heaven's Gate, the Zizians, and Jonestown to prove the same mechanism runs every single time. ⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode includes discussions of mass suicide, murder, death by poisoning including the deaths of children, cult coercion and coercive control. Listener discretion is advised. Season 9 opens with the question that sits underneath every cult story ever told: how does a group turn ordinary people into killers? Not people who were always dangerous. A nurse. A teacher. A college student. A software engineer. Someone whose neighbors would describe them as quiet and kind. Shannon takes the lead on this one, and the argument is deliberately uncomfortable; the pathway from ordinary person to cult member to participant in mass death is not about weakness, mental illness, or stupidity. It's about psychology. And it runs the same way every single time, whether you're looking at a California mansion in 1997, a Silicon Valley rationalist community in 2025, or a settlement in the Guyanese jungle in 1978. Same process. Different costume. Three cases, deliberately chosen because they have nothing in common but the mechanism. Heaven's Gate believed human bodies were containers for extraterrestrial souls. The Zizians organized around AI existential risk and analytic philosophy. Peoples Temple organized around socialism and racial justice. Cosmic, rationalist, political; three completely incompatible belief systems, one identical psychological structure underneath. That structure is what Shannon and Cathy spend the episode taking apart. Robert Jay Lifton's eight criteria of thought reform. Margaret Singer's self-dissolution process. Erich Fromm on why freedom is psychologically expensive enough that people will trade it away. Jung's Mana Personality, which explains why a leader's word can override what you can see with your own eyes. And running through all of it, Albert Bandura's moral disengagement — the four specific mechanisms by which a person with an intact conscience does something monstrous and does not experience themselves as monstrous while doing it. The core argument, and where the episode lands: The most dangerous thing about a cult isn't the leader. It's the moment when the group becomes more real to you than your own perception. That isn't weakness. That's how human psychology works. And knowing that is the only protection. Heaven's Gate · Marshall Applewhite · Bonnie Nettles · Rancho Santa Fe, California · March 26, 1997 · 39 dead · the Next Level · "the Demonstration" The Zizians · Ziz LaSota · rationalist and effective altruism communities · AI existential risk · "undead" and "p-zombie" ideology · six deaths, 2025–2026 Peoples Temple · Jim Jones · Jonestown, Guyana · November 18, 1978 · 918 dead, 304 of them children · White Night rehearsals · the largest mass death of American civilians before 9/11 Clinical terms: thought reform · coercive control · moral disengagement · self-dissolution · cognitive dissonance · milieu control · dehumanization · DDD syndrome · the Mana Personality · the ShadowThis is Part 1 of a three-part Cults series. Part 2 goes into ritual violence. Part 3 goes deeper into contemporary cases Until then... sleep safe. 😴 🎧 Follow Terror Talk wherever you get your podcasts and join us on Patreon for bonus content and access to the compound. 📸 Instagram: @terrortalkpodcast | 🎥 YouTube: Terror Talk Podcast | 📘 Facebook: Terror Talk Podcast | 🎵 TikTok: @dark.psychology.girls 🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

    CULTS: Heaven's Gate, the Zizians & Jonestown Part 1
  6. Aug 26

    SHRINK CHAT: Iron Lung, The Backrooms, Spider Noir - Horror Reviews 2026

    What does it mean to be scared in 2026? Horror Facts with Cath is back — and so is the watch list that somehow kept growing. This month Shannon and Cathy work through thirteen titles across film and series, from a claustrophobic submarine nightmare and a wedding week that was never going to end well, to a spider in a 1930s trench coat and a medical examiner who doesn't know when to quit. This episode covers: Film: Iron Lung — claustrophobic, gorgeous, more blood than any horror film in historyThe Backrooms — A24's liminal space debut from the youngest director to ever hit number one at the box officeHokum — Damian McCarthy's follow-up to Oddity, atmospheric Irish horrorLee Cronin's The Mummy — demon possession, practical gore, and a Blumhouse/Atomic Monster collaborationWhistle — teen slasher meets cursed artifact meets Final Destination logicThrash — hurricane sharks, Netflix, Tommy Wirkola, exactly what it sounds likeUndertone — audio-driven A24 horror built almost entirely on sound designReturn to Silent Hill — the third attempt to adapt the greatest horror game ever madeSend Help — 2026's genre wildcardScream 7 — Sidney Prescott returns. Ghostface returns. Shannon and Cathy have thoughts.Series: Something Very Bad Is Going to Happen — Netflix, Duffer Brothers produced, wedding horror, 8 episodes of dreadScarpetta — Nicole Kidman as Kay Scarpetta, Prime Video, forensic thrillerSpider-Noir — Nicolas Cage as a 1930s New York superhero-turned-private investigator, Prime VideoTwo licensed therapists — one forensic psychologist, one clinical marriage and family therapist — reviewing horror so you know what's worth your time and what's worth avoiding entirely. Until then... sleep safe. 😴 🎧 Follow Terror Talk wherever you get your podcasts and join us on Patreon for bonus content and access to the compound.📸 Instagram: @terrortalkpodcast | 🎥 YouTube: Terror Talk Podcast | 📘 Facebook: Terror Talk Podcast | 🎵 TikTok: @dark.psychology.girls🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

  7. Jul 1

    FEMALE PSYCHOPATH: Jodi Arias, Gypsy Rose & Villanelle - Real & Fictional Women of the 2010s

    Why are audiences so fascinated by female psychopaths? In the 2010s the most talked about stories in true crime, film and television kept landing on the same unsettling idea: that psychopathy does not always look violent or chaotic. Sometimes it looks calm, strategic and socially invisible. This episode continues our Female Psychopaths by the Decade series with the 2010s, the decade that changed how audiences talked about it. THE REAL CASES Jodi Arias, and what forensic psychologists mean by emotional congruence Joanna Dennehy, the Peterborough ditch murders, and the difference between psychopathy and sadism Miranda Barbour, the Craigslist killing of Troy LaFerrara, and self mythologizing Katherine Knight, and why her case came roaring back in the 2010s Gypsy Rose Blanchard, Dee Dee Blanchard, and the collision of victim and perpetrator THE FICTIONAL ONES Amy Dunne in Gone Girl, and why the one star reviews say more than the five star ones Villanelle in Killing Eve, and why Cathy could not finish the show Rose Armitage in Get Out Cersei Lannister in Game of Thrones Azula Plus the clinical groundwork: cognitive versus emotional empathy, primary versus secondary psychopathy, and why early psychopathy research built its rubric on male prison populations and then failed to recognise women who did not match it. We are discussing psychopathic traits and behaviors. We are not diagnosing anyone. Which female psychopath from the 2010s disturbed you the most, and why? CORRECTIONS AND ADDITIONS Game of Thrones premiered in April 2011, which puts it squarely inside the decade. Shannon says on air that it started before the 2010s. Katherine Knight: Cathy hedges on who the remains were served to, and the record is clearer than the hedge. Knight murdered her partner John Price at Aberdeen, New South Wales, in February 2000. She skinned him, cooked portions of his body, and set the table with place settings and notes for his three children. They never arrived and never ate. Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes. 🎧 LISTEN TO THE FULL PODCAST APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/terror-talk-true-crime-serial-killers-and-horror/id1435529687 SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/07JEm5Qm7cohukkEUOYt7P PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/cw/terrortalk 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/ 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newterrortalkpodcast 🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dark.psychology.girls?_r=18_t=ZT-99iWlxm05in 🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

4.5
out of 5
35 Ratings

About

Terror Talk is a true crime and horror podcast hosted by two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, dissecting serial killers, psychopaths, and the dark minds behind true crime and horror cinema. Shannon (PhD, LMFT) and Cathy (PhD, forensic psychology). 600+ episodes on serial killer psychology, criminal profiling, cold cases, unsolved murders, cults, coercive control, narcissism, and the horror movies two therapists review every week. Expert clinical insight. Genuine dark humor. New episodes every week. Follow now and join us on Patreon. Lock your doors. 🔒

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