The ISO Show

Blackmores UK

Blackmores is a pioneering consultancy firm with a distinctive approach to working with our clients to achieve and sustain high standards in Quality, Risk and Environmental Management. We'll be posting podcasts discussing ISO standards here very soon!

  1. #252 Wavenet's On-going Commitment to Best Practice – Successfully Maintaining Seven ISO Standards

    5d ago

    #252 Wavenet's On-going Commitment to Best Practice – Successfully Maintaining Seven ISO Standards

    Anyone that has undergone the ambitious task of Implementing an ISO Standard will know how much work goes into creating and maintaining a single ISO certification. Now imagine juggling seven ISO certifications! There's a key difference between those that simply collect badges and those that see the value each ISO certification can bring, as every Standard has their own requirements and guidance to tackle specific areas of quality, risk and sustainability. When implemented well, they create a solid well-rounded framework that can drive unparalleled continual improvement. In this episode Ian is joined by Damian Edwards, Head of Standards at Wavenet, to dive into how they manage the mammoth task of maintaining seven ISO Standards, the challenges with managing multiple ISO certifications and what benefits they've brought to the business since implementation.   You'll learn ·      Who is Damian Edwards? ·      Who are Wavenet? ·      How did Damian manage integrating management systems during Wavenet's acquisition of Daisy Corporate Services? ·      What is Damian's role at Wavenet? ·      How do Wavenet manage their ISO certifications? ·      How has ISO Support helped you over the past year? ·      What has Damian learned while managing ISO Standards? ·      What are the benefits of ISO certification? ·      Damain's top tip for anyone considering ISO Implementation   Resources ·      Wavenet ·      Wavenet Certifications ·      Blackmores – ISO Support Service ·      Isologyhub   In this episode, we talk about: [00:30] Episode Summary – We welcome Damian Edwards back onto the podcast to discuss how he maintains Wavenet's seven ISO certifications, and the explore the benefits gained from an integrated ISO Management System.   [03:05] Who is Damian Edwards? Damian is the Head of Standards at Wavenet, and has featured on the ISO Show before! One lesser known fact about Damian, is that he a 'Dance dad', supporting his daughter through all of her lessons and competitions. He's very proud of her latest achievement of qualifying for the World Championship for Irish dancing in her age group. [05:05] Who are Wavenet? Wavenet is an IT provider, providing IT network communications, security and resilience services. They are UK based with 1,600 employees based in their Solihull head office. Wavenet were formed in 2000, but have grown through acquisition, one of which was Damians previous company, Daisy Corporate Services. When Daisy was acquired, both businesses were of a similar size, so the process looked more like a merger in practice. A large part of that was uniting the ISO Standards managed by both businesses, so Damian had his hands full with ISO integration, amending audit schedules and managing extension to scope audits. [06:30] How did Damian manage integrating management systems during Wavenet's acquisition of Daisy Corporate Services? One of the biggest challenges was the extension to scope that needed to happen due to the increase in sites. Thankfully, as Wavenet were used to acquisitions, they had dedicated acquisition project managers that assist with managing the integration. At the start, there are some teething problems as both businesses will still be using their respective processes for a while. However, once system that helped was a system called 'ServiceNow', which is where issue tickets could be logged, monitored and actioned in one centralised system. [08:15] What is Damian's role at Wavenet? Damian is the Head of Standards, which includes both ISO Standards and ESG related regulatory compliance. ISO certifications are more often than not a prerequisite or a condition of a bid over a contract, without them, Wavenet wouldn't win any business. They also create a foundation of trust for Wavenet's clients in the realms of Information Security, quality and environmental management. Wavenet are currently certified to the following Standards: ·      ISO 9001 Quality Management ·      ISO 20000-1 Service Management ·      ISO 27001 Information Security Management ·      ISO 22301 Business Continuity Management ·      ISO 45001 Health & Safety Management ·      ISO 14001 Environmental Management ·      ISO 50001 Energy Management In addition to maintaining all of these certifications, Damian also strives to utilise them to drive continual improvement within the business.   [10:30] How do Wavenet manage their ISO certifications? Damian is directly responsible for five of those ISO Standards, however there are some where he doesn't have the expertise to fully manage the requirements. ISO 27001 and ISO 45001 for example require skilled people at the helm, so Wavenet have dedicated managers to handle those areas. One of Damians key responsibilities is juggling all of the audits to make sure each element is covered, and he's put a lot of work into integrating those audits where possible to get the most out of their time and resources. Though, it's important to note that you can't integrate everything, as each standard will have some unique requirements. Areas that you can integrate however include elements such as: ·      Context ·      Audit Programme ·      Corrective Actions When you do have a lot of Standards, some elements can get watered down if you try to integrate everything. Policy for example, if you have five Standards and decide to integrate all related policies into a single document, it will become long and unruly, which will lead to people unwilling to read it. So, you have to take care to ensure focus on certain elements to make those more accessible for the staff that need it. Another aspect that needed additional consideration was Wavenet's risk profile, with their amount of sites and services, it's very varied. Too much for a single person to be aware of all the risks, which is where Damian's subject area experts can provide additional insight to fill the gaps. Damian is also keen to combine external audits where possible to both reduce cost and possible duplication of effort, as many Standard do share common subject areas, this can be done across multiple Standards. Certification Bodies are usually quite happy to work with you on this! Damians key take away is, that there isn't one solution that fits every business when managing this many Standards. It was a very trial and error process, especially with the ever changing landscape of a business, but Standards are also designed with flexibility in mind, so with the right people in place it's certainly manageable. [16:05] How has Blackmores' ISO Support helped? Blackmores has assisted Wavenet with their ISO 45001, ISO 50001 and ISO 41001 (Facilities Management) implementation. ISO 41001 was later dropped as it was no longer applicable for the business. Standards can be quite hard to apply to your own business when looking at them at face value, the requirements sound generic because they're designed to apply to every type of business. This is where Blackmores experience as a consultancy can help with interpretation and practicalities of how a Standard will apply to your way of working. Blackmores will also assist with internal audits, which help identify non-conformities that may have been missed if it were not for a fresh pair of eyes. As Damian states: "I would rather have them identified before an external audit" as this gives you a chance to resolve issues or put an action plan in place before it gets to that stage. Damain also reminds everyone to not be afraid of your auditor, internal or external. They are not maliciously looking for problems, they simply help to highlight issues which can be resolved sp you can improve as a business. No Management System is perfect, the important thing is that you can recognise when something needs addressing, and how you go about doing so. [19:30] What has Damian learned while managing ISO Standards? Damian has learned to not think of ISO as a tick box exercise, it's a tool to help businesses improve. He has also learned that you don't need to reinvent the wheel when Implementing a Management System. You likely already have much of what's required in place, but not monitored or organised regularly. For example, aspects such as 'Management Review' may already be happening in existing meetings with top management, you simply need to ensure these are minuted, cover what needs to be discussed in regards to the Management System, and make note of any gaps that need to be addressed. Businesses like Wavenet that have been in operation for 26 years know what they're doing, and are likely already following best practice. You don't need to restructure your business to meet an ISO Standard, but rather integrate the Standard requirements with how you already operate. If done correctly, it should become a simple part of your day-today tasks. Damian jokingly states: "What's my role? I sometimes say it's to do as little as possible", as the more a business is aligned with a Standard, the less you will have to do to upkeep that. [22:55] What benefits have Wavenet experienced as a result of their ISO certifications? As mentioned earlier, a lot of won business is due to ISO certification. Certain certifications are simply a tender or client requirement. Standards such as ISO 50001 tackle their energy consumption. It's focus on reducing that will inevitably lead to reduced business costs. Since implementing the Standard, Wavenet now have monthly meetings to monitor energy use, which gives them a good basis to make informed decisions on where energy use is concerned. Damian has found that over time, good practice has been so embedded that people are using it in their everyday behaviors without even realising it. He's heard people in their resolutions

    33 min
  2. #251 Driving The Demand For GHG Emissions - How Davies Group Tackled Carbon Verification

    Jun 10

    #251 Driving The Demand For GHG Emissions - How Davies Group Tackled Carbon Verification

    Watch the video interview here Carbon verification is quickly becoming a necessary step for many businesses, whether due to regulatory compliance, market demand or as part of a voluntary scheme. The drivers for this demand are varied, as is the approach many take for their path towards carbon verification. This can look very different depending on the industry you operate in and can be difficult to tackle for more service based industries, such as today's guest, Davies Group, who are a service provider for the insurance industry. In this episode Mel is joined by Gillie Fairbrother, Global Responsible Business Officer at Davies Group, to discuss the findings of Mel's thesis regarding the demand and drivers of GHG verification for organisations across the globe, and how Davies Groups' carbon verification journey factors into the findings. You'll learn ·      Who is Gillie Fairbrother and who are Davies Group? ·      What factor triggered the decision for independent carbon verification at Davies Group? ·      At what point did the leadership team recognise that unverified carbon data represented a credibility and governance risk that was inconsistent with that professional standard? ·      What did Davies Group's GHG inventory and reporting look like before independent verification was introduced? ·      Which specific stakeholders were asking the hardest questions about Davies Group's sustainability data, and how did those questions land internally? ·        ·      What is the gap between organisations knowing they should verify emissions and actually doing it? ·      Was competitive positioning part of the Davies Group case for carbon verification? ·      What was the most significant finding from the first carbon verification engagement? ·      How has verification changed the internal culture and engagement with the sustainability programme at Davies Group? ·      How have Davies Group supported suppliers with calculating their carbon emissions? ·      Where does Gillie see the expectations of institutional partners and large clients in insurance and professional services heading? ·      What was a specific moment where Gillie can recall that this mattered more than she had expected?   Resources ·      Davies Group ·      Davies Group LinkedIn ·      Carbonology – Carbon Verification Services   In this episode, we talk about: [00:30] Episode Summary – We introduce Gillie Fairbrother, Global Responsible Business Officer at Davies Group, to discuss their participation in Mel's thesis research into the demand for GHG emissions, exploring Davies Group's own reasoning and journey. [02:05] Who is Gillie Fairbrother and who are Davies Group? A route into sustainability as a career wasn't as readily available to Gillie when she attended university, so it has been something of a self-made path. She has previously run a wellness business in the past and has experience working with sustainable brands and has done a lot of cultural advocacy, particularly in the LGBTQ space. Taking the lead for ESG within the corporate space was a dream come true for Gillie, and she has done this for a number of US based tech firms to her current position for Davies Group. Davies Group are a service provider for the insurance industry, who operate in 22 countries. [03:40] What factor triggered the decision for independent carbon verification at Davies Group? Mel's research found that 29% of organisations cite market-driven factors as their primary reason for seeking GHG verification, compared with just 12% who cite regulatory compliance. For Davies Group, their decision was led by market demand. They looked client requests versus client contractual obligations, and carbon verification was increasingly coming up in those contractual obligations. Gillie herself has always been an advocate for working both sustainably and responsibly, promoting the revenue benefits that can be gained from doing so. However, as much as it is perceived to be the right thing to do, she doesn't want businesses to simply think of it as the 'nice thing to do'. These should be central components to how your business operates. So in part, Davies Group saw this demand not only in the market, but as simply the right way to do business. [05:30] At what point did the leadership team recognise that unverified carbon data represented a credibility and governance risk that was inconsistent with that professional standard? Davies Group already operate in a highly regulated market, and so already have very strong governance practices in place. Gillie didn't really have to worry about making too many improvements in the governance or purpose aspects of ESG compliance. They participated in TCFD on a voluntary basis to highlight a possible risk from a climate perspective that could affect things like supply chain, physical sites, or the industry in general to leadership. Thankfully, the leadership saw this as a risk worth looking into more, and were willing to quantify it properly and ensure that their data was as accurate as possible and in a place where it could be audited by a 3rd party. [07:40] What did Davies Group's GHG inventory and reporting look like before independent verification was introduced? Before Gillie joined, these aspects were managed by a 3rd party due to lack of in-house expertise to manage it. When Gillie joined, she worked closely with that 3rd party to continue the work. Davies Group is quite a complex business, it operates with 3 different divisions that have multiple service lines. At the time, they did their best with the Excel spreadsheets that they had create to track various GHG emissions, but it was not as good as it could have been. They've since grown their processes, included more in-house talent and are doing more to gain knowledge from their stakeholders, data owners and building relationships with various teams across the business. While they are still working on Excel spreadsheets, they have advanced to reasonable assurance. Gillie is now looking into external tools to help improve their data management, but this would cost a fair bit of money that could be better used currently on reducing environmental impact. [10:30] Which specific stakeholders were asking the hardest questions about Davies Group's sustainability data, and how did those questions land internally? Gillie cites employees, as they're an industry where 30% of the workforce is likely going to retire in the next 10 years, so they're trying to attract a younger group of talent who want to work for a business that has a good purpose and is a good company. Acting sustainably and responsibly is a huge part of attracting that new young talent. The second more important stakeholders are their clients. Davies Group is a private equity backed business, if they're not making money then they simply cease to exist as a business. Clients now have a keen interest in responsibly run businesses, and many now seek proof to claims. Next in the list is investors, who have an interest in the regulatory requirements that the business is subjected to. Lastly, Gillie cites suppliers as even if they aren't actively putting pressure on the business to report their emissions, without their support and cooperation, Davies Group can't meet their own goals. [12:40] What was a particularly memorable conversation with a Stakeholder that helped drive further improvement? Gillie recalls one conversation with a new employee where they asked to be more involved with their sustainability group. When she talked to them more, she discovered that one of the main reasons that employee sought them out was due to the responsible business page on their website, and that out of the 3 businesses they were applying to, Davies Group was the only one that had a page like that. [37:00] What is the gap between organisations knowing they should verify emissions and actually doing it? Mel's research found that 86% of organisations report increased stakeholder demand for transparency in GHG reporting – yet 52% remain unverified. Gillie states that there could be a lot of reasons for this, including budget, resourcing or something as simple as a piece of wording in a contract where a client might say we request versus we require. This is why Gillie is always in conversation with clients, whether that be the sales team or the sustainability teams at our clients, to understand their goals and make sure they can all align in their goals. The market is certainly the leading cause for many businesses as Government regulation tends to lag behind. [17:20] Was competitive positioning part of the Davies Group case for carbon verification? For Davies Group, it was initially a contractual requirement to complete their carbon verification. So, in their case, it was an easy decision as otherwise they could potentially lose business. However, Gillie also regularly meets with senior leadership and reports into their responsible business board committee every quarter. There they consider the growing appetite for sustainability driven demands, and how they want to leading the way in their industry. The key determining factor is whether it's relevant to them, whether that's for sustainability or for their community impact strategy. Davies Group tend to focus on education and investment in our communities, as that's where their expertise sits. It's all about materiality as businesses need to focus on what's relevant to them. [19:20] What was the most significant finding from the first carbon verification engagement? For Gillie, it was the clarity and transparency that had been game changing. Especially within their real estate portfolio. Davies Group don't own any of their offices, they're all leased. As they calculated and ver

    34 min
  3. #250 Driving ISO Implementation – Meet the Consultant: Steve Mason

    May 15

    #250 Driving ISO Implementation – Meet the Consultant: Steve Mason

    How often have you heard someone say they aspire to be an ISO consultant? Likely not at all! That's not surprising as it's quite a niche world to find yourself in, yet despite that, there are still thousands of ISO professionals worldwide. We're continuing with our mini-series where we introduce members of our team, to explore how they fell into the world of ISO and discuss the common challenges they face while helping clients achieve ISO certification.   In this episode we introduce Steve Mason, a Principle isologist® at Blackmores, to share the journey of how he went from intern, to ISO Assessor, to ISO consultant and the challenges he's faced while working with clients. You'll learn ·      What is Steve's role at Blackmores? ·      What does Steve enjoy outside of consultancy? ·      What path did Steve take to become an ISO Consultant? ·      What is the biggest challenge he's faced when implementing ISO Standards? ·      What is Steve's biggest achievement?   Resources ·      Isologyhub ·      ISO 14001:2026 What's Changed And How to Comply Webinar Registration   In this episode, we talk about: [00:30] Episode Summary – We introduce Steve Mason, a Principle Isologist® here at Blackmores, to discuss his journey towards becoming an ISO consultant who specialises in ISO 27001, ISO 27701, ISO 27018, ISO 27017 and ISO 20000-1. [02:40] What is Steve's role at Blackmores? Her role primarily involves supporting clients in two key areas: maintaining and continually improving their existing ISO management systems and helping them establish and implement new standards. As part of that support, he: ·      Makes Standards understandable and accessible to clients ·      Conduct internal audits ·      Reviews and updates management system documentation ·      Facilitate management reviews ·      Train internal teams and prepare them for certification audits. Steve is the Standard champion for ISO 27001, ISO 27701, ISO 27017, ISO 27018 and ISO 20000-1 at Blackmores, but he also deals with ISO 9001, ISO 41001, ISO 22301 and ISO 42001 related projects and support. Steve's other main role at Blackmore's is as a Mental Health First Aider, which is shared with Minoo Agarwal. Together, they provide resources and offer support to the team. [06:00] The importance of Mental Health management in the workplace: Steve had faced bullying in previous roles, so preventing others from experiencing the same had become a big motivator for him taking on the role of Mental First Aider for Blackmores. He emphasizes it's importance, and highlights 2 key Standards that you can use to help support mental first aid within your business. This includes ISO 45003 Mental Health in the Workplace and BS 30480 Suicide and the Workplace. [09:10] What does Steve enjoy doing outside of consultancy?: Steve has a wide variety of interests and hobbies, including: Lay Minister: Steve is a Lay Minister in the United Reform Church and mainly based at the URC Chapel in Walkern, but can be found leading worship and preaching at Ashwell, Baldock, Stevenage and Knebworth chapels. Poetry: Steve enjoys writing poetry about anything and everything, racking up an impressive 190 poems so far. Some of his main inspirations include Wordsworth and Keats. If you ever see a poem on the Blackmores LinkedIn page, odds are, it was written by Steve! Classical Music: He's a fan of classical music, anything by Beethoven, Mahler or Shostakovich specifically. He likes these composers in particular due to their stretching of the rules of music for the time. Exploring hidden London: Steve often goes on hidden London tours which explore disused underground stations which may have been shut down as long as 100 years ago! Buses and Trains: Steve was lucky enough to drive a bus in his past, of which he has the licence plate of sitting in his office. He collects bus and train models and will go out to snap a photo or two of their real world counterparts when he comes across them. History: Steve is a huge mystery buff, with a particular fondness for Richard III and the War of the Roses and the Anglo Saxon period of history. Family Tree: Steve has been tracing his family tree back as far as he can on his mother's side, which extends as far back as 1547! Interestingly enough he found out that relatives from way back then got married in the church that he currently lives nearby and got qualified as a Lay Minister for the Church of England in Stevenage! Cats: He's owned his fair share of feline friends through the years, with one particular tabby holding the name 'Spartacus'. [22:35] What was Steve's path towards becoming an ISO Consultant?:  Steve was once told in the 1980s 'There is no future in Standards; find another career, perhaps in Sales or Purchasing'. How wrong that turned out to be! He's always worked with standards, from the first day he started work doing inspection in Goods Inwards, he was referring to them. The direction towards Management systems came in 1983 when he started implementing BS 5750. From that day onward he had been involved in Management Systems. Steve completed a management apprenticeship at Racal-Guardall where he was able to do 3 months' work experience in all departments, which helped him appreciate how companies function and how important it is to maintain good communication channels. He was at the end of this apprenticeship that the opportunity arose in the QA department to work on BS 5750. His career path has included other organisations such as Tektronix, BOC Ohmeda, Cirkit, Deta, TDK and BSI, all of which earned Steve a lot of experience in Manufacturing and Service and Distribution, mainly in Quality and Customer Service roles. Steve has always felt a bit like a closet consultant, even when he worked as an assessor at BSI. He feels as if Blackmores has enabled him to fully flourish and develop his portfolio of standards – not bad for a career where there was apparently no future in standards! [28:45] Born to be a consultant – Steve mentions that consultancy is a skill that many are born to be. You can train and learn the skills of course, but for some it comes very naturally and it can be hard to replicate that skillset in others. [30:15] What is Steve's favourite aspect of being a Consultant? Steve loves talking with clients and working with them to explore solutions that can address the requirements of the standards. His motto is 'Mould the Standard to the organisation and not the organisation to the standard' This means, always producing a management system that benefits the organisation first and then adjusting it to meet the requirements of the standard. Organisations that mould the business to the standard usually end up with a management system that is a 'bolt-on' and an uncomfortable, sometimes irrelevant, fit. Everyone in the organisation needs to feel that the management system is a natural fit to what they do. He also enjoys supporting his colleagues at Blackmores. We're a business built on knowledge sharing, and there's no point gatekeeping anything we've learned as a team. So consultants often get together to discuss lessons learned and ensure best practice is a shared experience. Ironically enough, one of Steve's least favourite aspects of being a consultant is auditing! Mostly since he's been doing it for some 40 years now, so he can be forgiven for finding the exercise a bit tedious at times. However, he never let's that affect the end result of an audit. [37:00] What Standards does Steve specilaise in and why? Steve initially started with ISO 9001 but was steered towards ISO 27001 and ISO 20000-1 during his time as BSI. This was based upon his career path up to the point he joined BSI as they align assessors to familiar business and technical environments. In Blackmores, he has been able to develop these areas of Quality, Service and Risk by adding standards related to Business Continuity, PII and Cloud Security, Facilities Management and AI Management. Steve's favourite standard is ISO 20000-1 which started off as an IT Service Management System but can also be used effectively for all services. He always refers to ISO 20000-1 as 'ISO 9001 on Steroids' because it is much more specific and focuses on the subject of service management. Sadly, ISO20000-1 is under rated, under sold and in some cases, never heard of – this is usually because contracts require IS O9001 but the people writing those contracts don't actually know or understand what they are asking for. In simple terms it is a Service Quality Management System and Steve has come across organisations which have shoe-horned ISO 9001 into the business instead of using the natural fitting standard ISO 20000-1. Steve would advise any company that is providing a service with helpdesk support to look at ISO 20000-1, especially if they find that ISO 9001 isn't working well for them. [43:00] What is the biggest challenge Steve had faced during a project and how did he overcome it?: Creating a management system in 10 days for a client which was due to lose a major contract because they had let their certification to ISO 9001 lapse between the 2008 and 2015 versions. Quite the undertaking in such a short amount of time! Steve refuses to claim full responsibility for the success however, as the client was totally invested in getting the system up and running and put in a lot of effort to work with Steve to get it done in time. If it had been any other standard, it would have been impossible, but because it was ISO 9001 and wthey were drawing on what had been in place previously it was possible. Generally, problems arise when there is limited or no Leadership support and commitment, because without this management systems can't be set up in a way that benefits the organisation. All manag

    56 min
  4. #249 How To Meet Documentation Requirements Within ISO

    Apr 28

    #249 How To Meet Documentation Requirements Within ISO

    Most ISO Standards are designed with implementation flexibility in mind. They set the framework without specifying an exact method to meet requirements, giving businesses the freedom to implement them how they see fit. One of the key requirements you can't escape, however, is documentation. This is more than a list of key documents you must have in place, it encompasses how you develop, control and store documented information. In this episode, Ian Battersby dispels common myths around documentation in ISO, explains what the requirements actually mean in practice and how you address each one relevant to documented information. You'll learn ·      Common misunderstandings about documentation within ISO ·      What do current ISO Standards require for Documented Information? ·      How do you determine what should be documented information? ·      How do modern Standards embed a flexible approach? ·      What is considered 'documented information?' ·      Breaking down clause 7.5 Documented information ·      How to address clause 7.5.2 Creating and Updating documentation ·      How to address 7.5.3 Control of documentation ·      A cautionary tale for modern approaches to Documentation   Resources ·      Isologyhub   In this episode, we talk about: [02:05] Episode Summary – Ian dives into the topic of documentation within ISO, dispelling the myths and breaking down the requirements you need to meet relevant to documented information. [02:40] Common misunderstandings about documentation within ISO: Taking ISO 9001 as the prime example, the most common misunderstanding is that you need a policy manual. This is not true. This may have stemmed from previous versions of ISO 9001 where certain mandatory procedures were required, such as: ·      Control of Documents (Clause 4.2.3) ·      Control of Records (Clause 4.2.4) ·      Internal Audit (Clause 8.2.2) ·      Control of Nonconforming Product (Clause 8.3) ·      Corrective Action (Clause 8.5.2) ·      Preventive Action (Clause 8.5.3) There were also mandatory records such as Management Review, calibration, supplier evaluation, design/development reviews etc. With the introduction of the 2015 version of ISO 9001, the old terms 'Procedure' and 'Record' have changed into a single term now known as 'Documented Information', which breaks down those previous terms into the following: ·      Documented information to be maintained — Previously what would have been a procedure (i.e., describing how something should be done) ·      Documented information to be retained — Previously what would have been a record (i.e., evidence that something was done) [05:10] What do current ISO Standards require for Documented Information? The 2015 version of ISO 9001 received the following updates: ·      Removed the prescriptive language associated with the old terms ·      Gave organisations the flexibility to develop, control and store documented information ·      No longer dictates the form that documentation must take In practice, many people still use the terms procedure and record informally, because they are well understood and conveniently descriptive. But beware using language that reinforces old-fashioned ideas about how we create management systems. This newer language aligns with modern risk-based thinking, with direct references made to this being included in the Standard. But, while that sounds prescriptive, adopting risk-based thinking has allowed a less prescriptive approach to the standards. It allows you to consider what's significant to you and so you can plan your system accordingly. [07:20] How do you determine what should be documented information? The effort you put into documenting something must be consistent with the risk If, for example, a process is important, if its outcome could be in doubt, if it's complex to control, if it could lead to damage/harm, if there's a regulatory requirement, then you should put some effort into documenting how it's performed. But, if you maintain that documentation in response to the risk to your organisation and not in response to a prescriptive demand in standard, and if a process attracts less risk, then you can deliver it with less formality and less documentation to be maintained. The same goes for retaining documentation to evidence that you've done what you should. In short: more risk, more documentation retained to demonstrate that you've controlled it. [08:30] How do modern Standards embed a flexible approach? ISO Standards are deliberately flexible. The extent of documented information required depends on the size of your organisation, the complexity of your processes, your customers' needs, your regulatory environment and the competence of your people. An organisation of only 10 people will have very different needs compared to one of 10,000, and both can fully conform to the standard. It's about proportionality, not volume. [09:20] What is considered 'documented information? ISO standards don't care what you call the documents you maintain in order to govern how you deliver your daily work. Other than using the term process (and the process approach) to underpin how systems should interrelate, ISO 9001 doesn't specify anything else. Would you like to use the term procedure?  Or management procedure? Or SOP? Work instruction? Process map, guide, playbook, manual. Or is your activity embedded in an online system? A workflow? A board? It doesn't matter, you can call it what you want, and as long as it's controlled to the extent that it needs to be. [11:05] Breaking down clause 7.5 Documented information: ISO 9001 states: "7.5.1 General: The organization's quality management system shall include: a) documented information required by this International Standard; b) documented information determined by the organization as being necessary for the effectiveness of the quality management system. NOTE The extent of documented information can differ from one organization to another due to: ·      the size of organization and its type of activities, processes, products and services; ·      the complexity of processes and their interactions; ·      the competence of persons." This reinforces the fact that there is no 'one size fits all' approach. [12:15] How to address clause 7.5.2 Creating and Updating documentation: The Standard states: "When creating and updating documented information, the organization shall ensure appropriate." Note that word, 'appropriate'.  It doesn't indicate specifics, it indicates that you should choose certain things according to your own circumstances So the appropriate things which you should ensure are: Identification and description:(e.g. a title, date, author, or reference number) One trap many fall into, is the use of reference numbers. In most cases they are unnecessary. Only use them if they mean something or make life easier. Having reference numbers with department numbering can reinforce the silo mentality; 'that's their procedure, not ours', so it's best to avoid creating that situation by foregoing reference numbers if possible. What matters is that any users are able to easily verify that they have the right document, this can be done with a descriptive title, version numbers and a date for the version. Online documents may have details embedded in metadata or an information box that can make this process easier to implement.   Format and media: You'll need to consider language required for certain documentation, as international systems where there are multiple languages used by the workforce, may require additional versions. You'll also need to establish which templates or layouts to use. Look and feel will likely be important in the organisation, so you'll want to keep documents on brand. Other considerations include: ·      The use of process maps, flowcharts, diagrams, tables, or written text. ·      The software or application it is created in (e.g. Word, PDF, SharePoint) ·      Whether the document is paper-based or electronic Review and approval for suitability and adequacy: Documented information requires appropriate review of content, this is to make sure it does what it should and that all of the above is covered. You will also need sign-off by someone with the appropriate authority, and that authority is determined based on risk related to that document. [18:00] How to address 7.5.3 Control of documentation: Let's break down each part of this clause: "To ensure that a)    it is available and suitable for use, where and when it is needed;" - It must be circulated, hosted, displayed or whatever, so that those people who are required to see it, use it, know of its content can act on it. "b) it is adequately protected (e.g. from loss of confidentiality, improper use, or loss of integrity)." - It must be protected so that only the right people see it, so that any confidential information is not inappropriately shared, and no one can use or amend it without the appropriate authority. This is to ensure it remains in the manner it was intended and that its content can't be altered, corrupted or destroyed. "7.5.3.2 For the control of documented information, the organization shall address the following activities, as applicable: a) distribution, access, retrieval and use; b) storage and preservation, including preservation of legibility; c) control of changes (e.g. version control); d) retention and disposition." This clause adds some meat to the ideas discussed already "a) distribution, access, retrieval and use;" – This refers to who receives a document and by what means, whether the right people can access it and know what to do

    25 min
  5. #248 How To Address Risk Management Within ISO

    Apr 15

    #248 How To Address Risk Management Within ISO

    Most ISO Standards take what's known as a 'risk-based approach', which focuses on proactively identifying and mitigating potential risks while capitalising on opportunities. The methods for managing risk can be very varied, and many make the mistake of treating it as a separate task rather than as an integrated part of your existing processes. In this episode, Ian Battersby explains what risk management means in regard to ISO management, what this looks like in practice and breaks down different methods you can utilise for effective risk management. You'll learn ·      What is risk? ·      Where is risk referenced in ISO Standards? ·      How do you identify risks and opportunities? ·      How can you document risks and opportunities? ·      What does a Risk Register look like? ·      How are risks categorised? ·      How many risks should you document? ·      How do you evaluate and rate risks? ·      How do you address opportunities? ·      How can ISO 31000 help? ·      How different ISO Standards define their relevant risks ·      Governance and risk management   Resources ·      Isologyhub   In this episode, we talk about: [02:05] Episode Summary – Ian dives into the topic of risk management within in ISO. Explaining what risk is, how they should be documented and evaluated and what methods you can use to do so.    [02:45] Further info on risk management: If you want more guidance there is a dedicated risk management Standard (ISO 31000). [03:10] What is risk? Risk, as defined by ISO Standards is: "An effect of uncertainty on objective. An effect is a deviation from the expected. It can be positive, negative or both, and can address, create or result in opportunities and threats" So important to note that this includes both risks and opportunities. [03:40] Where is risk referenced in ISO Standards? The main risk related requirements can be found in Clause 6 Planning for most ISO Standards: 6.1 Actions to address risks and opportunities - There's a positive and a negative aspect mentioned right from the start. However, these elements aren't relegated to a few clauses. ISO Standards are built on a 'risk-based approach', which is directly mentioned within the introduction: "This International Standard employs the process approach, which incorporates the Plan-Do-Check-Act (PDCA) cycle and risk-based thinking Risk-based thinking enables an organization to determine the factors that could cause its processes and its management system to deviate from the planned results, to put in place preventive controls to minimize negative effects and to make maximum use of opportunities as they arise." While it is prescriptive, it does allow flexibility for businesses to determine what risks are significant to them. Other places it's mentioned in Standards includes Leadership: "Top management shall demonstrate leadership and commitment by: d) promoting the use of the process approach and risk-based thinking" It's not just about adopting the risk-based approach, leaders have to promote it. The use of the word 'shall' indicates that this is not optional and cannot be delegated. [08:10] How do you identify risks and opportunities? The Planning clause directly references clause 4, which is Context of the organisation. Within that clause, businesses are required to think about the things which affect the way you operate, the world in which you work, the people and organizations you must consider, the obligations placed upon you. One key activity that typically happens at that stage is a SWOT and PESTLE, that's not specified by the Standard but it's a very popular method of identifying your risks and opportunities against multiple areas. The results of which can be fed back into Clause 6 Planning when it asks you to consider and do the following:- ·      Give assurance that the system can achieve its intended result(s); ·      Enhance desirable effects; ·      Prevent, or reduce, undesired effects; ·      Achieve improvement. ·      Plan actions to address these risks and opportunities; ·      Integrate and implement the actions into its system processes; ·      Evaluate the effectiveness of these actions. This is where you have the freedom to determine what significant risk means to your business. This also establishes the approach to risk management as proactive rather than reactive. [13:15] How can you document risks and opportunities? Just because you need to determine risks, you don't necessarily need a risk management process or methodology based on the guidance in a standard like ISO 31000. There's no requirement to even have a risk register! However, we do strongly recommend using one. If you choose not to use one, you could document each risk individually with the plan of action to mitigate it. This is fine, but a register allows you to see what's happening across all risks. It allows comparison of different types, different categories, across different parts of the organisation, at different levels. It can support decision making and allocation of resource where there's competition for that resource. It can prompt escalation and more significant management attention where it's needed. It can also form a basis for reviewing the effectiveness of your processes. So, while not a firm requirement, it can be a very useful tool. [15:20] What does a Risk Register look like?: A typical Risk Register usually sits in a table or Excel document. You can number your SWOT and PESTLE findings and put them into this Risk Register. One of the columns included is interested parties affected by it, e.g. the risk that your processes deliver the wrong product directly relates to your customers; the risk of enforcement may relate to your board; the risk of terrible PR may affect your investors; the risk of polluting may affect the local population, enforcement agencies etc Certain standards also require you to determine compliance obligations associated with each interested party, so that may be useful to add as a column. Then, you need a column for detailing what the impact of the issue is (remember, both positive and negative). Then you need to evaluate each entry, this involves measuring the significance, the size and scale. When evaluating risks, you need to indicate which processes you have in place that control the risk.  Then you need to rate the risks in their current (do-nothing) form. This is where it helps to have a register where different types and categories can be judged alongside each other, so you'll be able to see what's really important in one place. An organisation needs to decide what level of risk it's prepared to accept; this may be a straightforward decision where a specific value triggers escalation and action, but it may be more complex, depending on the organisation you are in and the environment in which you operate. If the risk is acceptable, should you still commit resource to addressing it; there's a balance in reducing risk overall; is it an easy win?  Is it easy to do? If you feel you should address a risk, what method of risk treatment should you adopt? The actions you propose to take should then be set out in proper detail: who will do what by when?  What resource?  Basically detailing the measures to assess effectiveness.  If a risk or a group of associated risks require an objective, state clearly and link to that objective. [21:35] How are risks categorised? The types of risks you will be focused on will depend on the ISO Standard you're implementing. For example, for ISO 9001 this will be the ability to consistently deliver the best we can to our customers. For ISO 45001 the ultimate aim is to protect your workforce from harm. Regardless, you can get quite broad with the nature of your risks, including considerations such as the ability to fund right equipment and infrastructure; or any investment in a sustainable future; the competence of personnel; the safe working environment to deliver products/services; compliance with relevant legislation; forces affecting our market; stability of supply chains; reputation; social attitudes to work, technology etc But, regardless of whether you're certified to a multitude of standards, operations are typically so interdependent that you can't separate financial risks from operational ones etc. [23:55] How many risks should you document? It's easy to get overwhelmed by generating a huge register when you're a small organisation, but you should be realistic. Focus on what's really significant. If you do a SWOT/PESTLE, if it generates lots of issues but not everything has to be treated as a risk and opportunity for the risk register.   First, ask yourself, what will actually have an impact on you if it materialises?  What is beyond control or influence?  What requires just monitoring? A larger organisation will tend to generate a larger register, but this can be categorised in different ways: ·      Split by functions ·      Split by category (operational, safety, compliance, financial) ·      Significance; operational vs strategic or corporate ·      This can be done by the scale of the risk, any risk above a specific threshold could be escalated to the strategic level ·      There could be factors in the risk evaluation which include strategic significance ·      There could be specific subjects (eg, compliance) which you automatically escalate to a strategic level [25:55] How do you evaluate and rate risks? There are lots of complex and sophisticated ways of doing this. Certain sectors, industries, processes have specific needs and ways of evaluating risk. But, if you're new to this, or there aren't such complexities to consider, a ve

    39 min
  6. #247 How do ISO 27001 Information Security and ISO 42001 AI Management compare?

    Apr 1

    #247 How do ISO 27001 Information Security and ISO 42001 AI Management compare?

    Information is increasingly becoming the number one priority for businesses. With so many of us reliant on tech to stay in operation, there is an inevitable increase in data breaches and incidents year-on-year. The addition of new AI driven technology has added a new layer of complexity to the information security landscape, regarding both the new risks using the technology brings as well as falling prey to more complex AI led scams.   Thankfully ISO Standards are here to help, with ISO 27001 tackling general information security and ISO 42001 for effective AI Management. But how do these two compare, and is there merit in implementing both? In this episode, Ian Battersby is joined by Bas Von Hertom, Cyber Security Specialist at TUV Nord, to discuss what ISO 27001 and ISO 42001 are, the main differences between the Standards and how they can complement each other when integrated.   You'll learn ·      Who is Bas Von Hertom? ·      Who are TUV Nord? ·      What are ISO 27001 and ISO 42001? ·      How does ISO 42001 support regulatory frameworks such as the EU AI Act? ·      How do ISO 27001 and ISO 42001 differ in managing information security risks? ·      Other key differences between ISO 27001 and ISO 42001 ·      How much more work is involved for Implementing ISO 42001 if you already have ISO 27001 in place? ·      Can ISO 27001 and ISO 42001 be integrated? ·      What organisations should be implementing both Standards? ·      How are Certification Bodies quoting for ISO 27001 and ISO 42001? ·      Bas's advice to leadership teams looking to build a case for full certification   Resources ·      TUV Nord ·      Isologyhub   In this episode, we talk about: [02:05] Episode Summary – Ian is joined by Bas Von Hertom, Cyber Security Specialist at TUV Nord, to explore the differences between ISO 27001 and ISO 42001 and the benefits of integrating both Standards. [02:30] Who is Bas Von Hertom? Bas is the Cyber Security Specialist at TUV Nord. He is a lead auditor for Standards including ISO 27001, ISO 42001, TISAX and standards specifically for industrial automation. Bas had once stated around 5 years ago that he would never pursue a career in auditing, but once he came into contact with TUV Nord he decided to give it a go. Before joining TUV, he was a very hands-on systems administrator and many of those skills transferred well into auditing. [04:45] Who are TUV Nord? TUV Nord are a UKAS accredited Certification Body. They also offer services for testing and inspection. TUV have worked with a large range of sectors, from manufacturing and energy to IT, healthcare and even space. [06:25] What are ISO 27001 and ISO 42001? ISO 27001 is the Standard for Information Security Management, with compliant management systems being called an ISMS. It provides structure for identifying, assessing, and managing risks related to the information security while also ensuring availability and resilience on the information security. ISO 42001 AI Management is a much more recent Standard, being published in December of 2024. It focuses on ethical and effective AI management, with a system that applies to relevant products in addition to the wider business. [07:30] How does ISO 42001 support regulatory frameworks such as the EU AI Act? The EU AI Act sets out legal obligations that organisations offering AI products must comply with, however it only defines the rules rather than providing any implementation guidance. This is where ISO 42001 can fill the gaps, by providing a framework that will meet these regulatory requirements. [08:45] How do ISO 27001 and ISO 42001 differ in managing information security risks? Both Standards take a risk-based approach to their subject matter, but the nature of the risks that each address are what differ. ISO 27001 focuses on risks that relate to the protection of information assets based on confidentiality, integrity and availability of information. It's also ensures that business objectives are clearly defined and aligned with business strategy. ISO 42001 on the other hand deals with a broader and more complex set of risks, because it also looks at ethical considerations. This can includes the monitoring and measurement of ethical risks such as AI bias and discrimination. It also looks at societal, legal and reputational risks as one of ISO 42001's key values is creating trust within the AI space. [10:10] Other key differences between ISO 27001 and ISO 42001: Besides their subject matter, another key difference is the way objectives are framed and evaluated. In ISO 42001 these objectives have to be aligned with the Annexes within the Standard, which is something not commonly done when implementing ISO 27001. ISO 42001 also requires an 'AI Impact Assessment', which again, aligns with the systems objectives as the results of the AI Impact Assessment will describe the way bias, ethical and societal considerations impact other requirements within ISO 42001. [11:00] How much more work is involved for Implementing ISO 42001 if you already have ISO 27001 in place? If you already have ISO 27001 in place, you have a strong foundation for ISO 42001. ISO 27001 puts the fundamental base in place, with a governance structure, risk assessment processes, internal audits, corrective actions and methods for continual improvement. There's a lot of overlap where the high-level requirements are concerned. However, ISO 42001 also looks at AI products and services, which differs from ISO 27001.   ISO 42001 may also require additional training for those involved with the management systems and the AI products and services. [12:15] Can ISO 27001 and ISO 42001 be integrated? Yes, and in fact, Bas highly encourages it! If you intend to implement both Standards, it's much more efficient to do so as an integrated management system. They both utilise the Annex SL format, a high-level structure that's shared with most ISO Standards, so they're designed to be integrated. This also saves on duplication of effort where documentation is concerned and also potentially on cost if you require additional support with implementation. [13:30] What organisations should be implementing both Standards? Both ISO 27001 and ISO 42001 can apply to any business. Most businesses are now utilising AI in some form, and ISO 42001 can apply to those using it just as much as it does to those developing their own AI tools or selling related services. However, sectors where ISO 42001 will likely become fundamental include the financial sector, where AI tools for fraud detection are becoming popular. There's also a growing need for it within the medical field as AI is increasingly used for research and development. [14:30] How are Certification Bodies quoting for ISO 27001 and ISO 42001? There are a number of variables that Certification Bodies use to work out certification costs, these include size of the organisation and business complexity. This can be tricky to calculate for ISO 42001 as you need to consider the amount of AI systems used before you can provide a quote. The full requirements for this are described in ISO 42006, which is a guidance Standard. Most certification bodies will offer a discount for the combined certification to both Standards. An integrated approach is certainly something that Bas recommends, in addition to ensuring that you keep the same auditor or audit team throughout the implementation. By having one team for both systems, you can complete combined internal audits to save on time and resources.   [16:20] Bas's advice to leadership teams looking to build a case for full certification: First of all, don't wait, just make a start. A lot of businesses make the mistake of waiting until it's a common requirement within their market, which can leave you lagging behind the curve. Instead, strive to be one of the early adopters as that will give you a strategic advantage in the market. This is especially the case if you already have ISO 27001 in place. You already have the foundational knowledge to implement ISO 42001, so just make a start on looking at risks relevant to ISO 42001. Many businesses opt to implement certain Standard due to the demands of their clients, and ISO 42001 is likely to be added to that list. So it's better to get a head start! Bas also recommends finding sources of guidance on ISO 42001 implementation. Whether that's sourcing training or an external party to advise, it's good to have other sources of knowledge of you're not familiar with the Standard or ISO implementation as a whole. [21:30] Bas's favourite quote: We don't rise to the level of our expectation, but we fall to the level of the systems that we use. If you'd like to find out more TUV Nord or are looking for ISO 27001 and ISO 42001 certification, check out their website. We'd love to hear your views and comments about the ISO Show, here's how: ●     Share the ISO Show on Twitter or Linkedin ●     Leave an honest review on iTunes or Soundcloud. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one. Subscribe to keep up-to-date with our latest episodes: Stitcher | Spotify | YouTube |iTunes | Soundcloud | Mailing List

    24 min
  7. #246 Pedalling Towards Purpose – Forests Journey To B Corp Accreditation

    Mar 19

    #246 Pedalling Towards Purpose – Forests Journey To B Corp Accreditation

    Watch the video interview here Europe is only partially on track to meet its 2030 environment and sustainability objectives, and while some objectives are being scaled back, we are seeing the introduction of more regional regulations that require tangible annual sustainability reporting.  Businesses that have built sustainability into their way of working from the start are leading the charge and defining what it means to operate responsibly. As with today's guest, Forest, an e-bike provider that is not only 100% powered by renewable energy but has also achieved the coveted B Corp Accreditation. In this episode, Mel Blackmore is joined by Laura Elms, VP of Sustainability & Corporate Affairs at Forest, to discuss how they embedded sustainability from the start and explore their journey towards B Corp Accreditation. You'll learn ·      Who are Forest? ·      Who is Laura? ·      Why was B Corp important to Forest from the start? ·      What other Standards do Forest currently hold? ·      What does Forest's higher B Corp score of 99 mean in reality? ·      How did Forest embed sustainability into a business from day one rather than retrofitting it later? ·      How has Forest balanced growth with genuine environmental accountability? ·      What does tackling Scope 3 look like in urban mobility? ·      Why did they also attain Verra Validation, and why does third-party validation matter? ·      How do sustainability, communications and public policy intersect in Laura's role? ·      Advice for those seeking B Corp Accreditation ·      B Corp Version 7 ·      What role do you think sustainable transport should play in helping cities to meet their net zero targets?   Resources ·      Forest ·      B Corp Accreditation ·      Carbonology   In this episode, we talk about: [00:30] Episode Summary – Mel is joined by Laura Elms, VP of Sustainability & Corporate Affairs at Forest, to explore how they lead the way in sustainability including insight into their journey towards B Corp Accreditation. [01:10] Who are Forest? Forest is the only shared E-Bike operator to power its entire fleet with 100% renewable energy. It's also one of the world's first micro-mobility companies to have B Corp Accreditation and Verra Validation. [01:40] Who is Laura and how did she get involved with sustainability? Laura admits that she had a rather non-linear approach to getting into sustainability. She started her career shortly after graduating in financial communications and investor relations. Working in her first firm, she worked closely with a women called Caroline who went on to found Forest along with two other co-founders. Caroline reached out to her 2 years after starting Forest and Laura felt it was a no-brainer as she had a pre-existing interest in sustainability, and had come to prefer the start-up space over a more corporate setting. As is typical with the nature of start-ups, Laura wore many hats from the outset as it was a small team of four. Sustainability was what she was most passionate about, and has been the area she nurtured for Forest over the course of her six years working with them. [03:40] Why was B Corp important to Forest from the start? Laura noticed that B Corp was gaining traction back when Forest started in 2020. She was curious about the intersection between B Corp and ESG, particularly from a start-up perspective. When starting at Forest, she knew it would be a significant benefit to utilise renewable energy, but she felt like they needed to go above and beyond that. From there she researched B Corp and the costs involved, which were affordable as it's relative to your revenue, which is a great advantage to start-ups. She was pleased to find that Forest could cover the 5 pillars of B Corp's credentials, not only providing bikes for urban settings but also providing excellent governance and additional benefits to their surrounding community, workers and environment. In short, B Corp helped set the foundations for a good well rounded company that could grow. [05:15] What other Standards do Forest currently hold? Forest currently hold ISO 9001 certification and are looking to implement ISO 14001 in the near future. They currently operate within 18 boroughs in London, and are expanding from one central hub to several more warehouses, which is what will be covered under that ISO 14001 scope. With B Corp as their guiding North Star, they're confident they have all the right foundations in place to grow as needed. [06:10] What does Forest's higher B Corp score of 99 mean in reality? Within B Corp there are 5 pillars: ·      Community ·      Environment ·      Governance ·      Customers ·      Workers Its core focus is sustainability, but its approach is much more holistic and similar to the way ISO's implement a system that encompasses how a business works rather than just a siloed focus on one area. B Corp looks at a multitude if areas, such as: ·      Reducing Scope 1, 2 & 3 emissions ·      Looking at your supply chain ·      Evaluating how your activities interact with your stakeholders To earn a B Corp score, you need to get certain marks and then you're scored across the 5 pillars. Many businesses going for B Corp tend to do well in the sustainability area, but they struggle with other areas such as workers and customers. The framework is designed to be more holistic than simply focusing on sustainability, so If you focus too much in that area, it may come at a detriment to the other pillars. [08:20] How did Forest embed sustainability into a business from day one rather than retrofitting it later? Sustainability was Forest's vision and mission right from the start. Their CEO and Founder had previously worked at a ride-hailing company called Cabify, and had led the Latin American operations there. Cabify was the first mobility company to offset all its emissions, this was prior to 2020 so it was seen as though-leader in the space. This inspired the now CEO of Forest with the concept of 'Human Forest', which was the idea that humans on bikes in a city can save CO2 by choosing bikes over carbon emitting modes of transport. Having it as a core part of the business from the start meant they didn't have to worry about budgeting road-blocks or additional approval. It was simply a part of the brand. Laura can see why retrofitting the same level of sustainability commitment may be difficult for other businesses, as Forest had already baked in the price of renewable energy from the beginning and didn't have to worry about that transition. Forest do differ in that unlike other larger companies that will be showing smoother trajectories towards net zero, they're already there. They face the unique challenge of keeping it there as they grow, as more bikes and available geographical locations means more manufacturing and bigger scope 3 emissions. So their transition to net-zero will overall look a lot less linear. [11:15] How has Forest balanced growth with genuine environmental accountability? Forest have managed to reduce their carbon footprint by 53% year on year, even with their continued growth. Tackling environmental accountability can be something that gets businesses stuck in a rut, especially with any applicable regulations. As Laura quotes, often perfection is the enemy of good. Small incremental changes are better than trying to get it all right first time. In Forest's case, to achieve that 53% reduction they looked at a more creative solution. Rather than manufacturing brand new bikes when needed, they reached out to the wider e-bike market to those that utilised their same manufacturer and asked if they had any spare bikes. This helped to massively bring down emissions that would have otherwise been created making new bikes, by accessing a second-hand market. This can't be done indefinitely, but it's a small action that has created a large impact for that year. Forest have also worked with manufacturers to help switch to using solar energy for the production process, which they are now monitoring to see how much this reduces emissions by.   [13:50] What does tackling Scope 3 look like in urban mobility? Scope 3 for most businesses is their biggest source of emissions, typically accounting for around 80-90% of a businesses total emissions. For Forest this is closer to 100%. They've also noticed that compared to 3 years ago, the emissions are slightly less for things such as production and shipping of bikes. Laura admits that this may not be entirely due to the processes themselves getting more efficient, but as by-product of improving other areas such as technology or use of office spaces to help bring down the businesses overall emissions. At this stage, it's getting the methodology right for scope 3, to ensure their data is as accurate as possible. This includes sending questionnaires to suppliers and making use of technology to improve data gathering and analysis. [15:45] Why did they also attain Verra Validation, and why does third-party validation matter? Laura at the time was looking to ensure the highest level of credibility possible, which started with B Corp, ISO certification and then Verra Validation. Verra was a leader in this space, and dominate the market in terms of carbon offsetting. Forest didn't want to go through the whole process to sell offsets with Verra as it didn't make sense for their business, but they did want the validation as another layer of credibility. [17:45] How do sustainability, communications and public policy intersect in Laura's role?  London, unlike most other major cities, does not have a single unified body, instead you have to negotiate borough by borough. Each one has the

    24 min
  8. #245 What's The Difference Between TISAX and ISO 27001?

    Mar 4

    #245 What's The Difference Between TISAX and ISO 27001?

    For those in the automotive industry, namely suppliers working with European OEM's, you're likely familiar with TISAX but not necessarily with the Standard that many of its requirements originate from. ISO 27001 is the leading Information Management Standard, and its Annex A forms the basis of TISAX, however there are many differences between the two. For Automotive suppliers looking to create a more holistic Information Security Management System, it can be beneficial to implement elements of both even if you don't intend to certify to both. In this episode, Ian Battersby is joined by Emma Coxhill, isologist at Blackmores, to explore the differences between TISAX and ISO 27001, how existing ISO 27001 compliant management systems can be leveraged for TISAX compliance and the benefits of implementing both Standards for automotive suppliers. You'll learn ·      How does TISAX differ from ISO 27001? ·      How does the recertification / annual surveillance for TISAX and ISO 27001 differ? ·      Can a company have TISAX without ISO 27001 and vice versa? ·      How can an existing ISO 27001 certification be leveraged for TISAX? ·      What are the additional benefits of implementing both TISAX & ISO 27001? ·      What is a reasonable timeframe for implementing TISAX? ·      The key role of Internal Audits ·      How can Blackmores support companies in implementing TISAX? Resources ·      Register for our TISAX webinar here ·      ENX ·      Isologyhub   In this episode, we talk about: [02:05] Episode Summary – Emma Coxhill joins Ian to dive into the key differences between ISO 27001v Information Security and TISAX, including the benefits of implementing both and how each can be leveraged to assist in the implementation of the other.   [03:10] What is TISAX? TISAX was developed for the automotive industry by the German Association of the Automotive Industry, VDA, and it's managed by the ENX Association. It's based on the ISO 27001 Annex A controls, and was created for the automotive industry because they were looking to standardise the framework for assessing and sharing information security results between manufacturers and their suppliers. [04:20] How does TISAX differ from ISO 27001? ISO 27001 is a general Information Security management Standard, it can be applied to any business, whereas TISAX is only applicable to the automotive industry. ISO 27001 includes a framework of requirements that everyone must implement, whereas TISAX has a more customisable element. With TISAX you can select an applicable level and relevant subject areas for your operations. The last main difference is the fact that ISO 27001 certification ends in a certificate which can be shared and displayed wherever you want. TISAX in comparison has Labels, which are only available through the ENX portal where you have control over who can access them. [05:15] How does the recertification / annual surveillance for TISAX and ISO 27001 differ? The good news is that TISAX is a bit more forgiving than ISO when it comes to a recertification cycle. TISAX does not require an annual Surveillance like ISO 27001, instead once you've earned a Label it remains valid for 3 years. ISO 27001 in comparison requires an annual Surveillance for each year until the 3rd when you have your Recertification Audit. If you have a significant change to scope part way through your 3 years of TISAX, you will need to have a chat with your auditor to see if extra work is required. This will depend on your level, with higher levels likely to require some additional work and for you to adjust your scope within the ENX portal. Overall, a TISAX label is less of a burden than traditional Management System Standards like ISO 27001. However, TISAX is a lot more strict and will require more upfront preparation ahead of earning your Label. [07:30] Are Internal Audits required for TISAX? They are, but the amount and frequency are a lot more flexible than ISO 27001. You can do as many as you like, but at a bare minimum we recommend you conduct internal audits 6 months ahead of your TISAX label expiring to ensure you're ready for re-certification. You can of course carry on with annual internal audits to make sure you're on track. This can be handy if specific clients ask for further evidence of you following processes in accordance with TISAX requirements.   [08:35] Can a company have TISAX without ISO 27001 and vice versa? You can! Both are independent Standards, however they do compliment each other. Organisations that hold both have a competitive advantage, as ISO 27001 applies to all industries and is more widely recognised. However, if you only operate in the automotive space, TISAX may be sufficient. If you supply to multiple sectors, it's worth considering implementing both TISAX and ISO 27001. [09:25] How can an existing ISO 27001 certification be leveraged for TISAX? If you already hold an existing ISO 27001 certification, than you're already 80% of the way there to TISAX compliance. As TISAX is based off of ISO 27001's Annex A controls, a lot of the requirements cross over, so you will already have most of the foundations in place to cover TISAX. It will just be the more automotive specific requirements that will require some additional work. These requirements include considerations for: ·      Data Protection ·      Prototype protection ·      Assets ·      3rd Party Suppliers The amount of additional work will also depend on the TISAX Level you're aiming for, with Level 3 being the most demanding for these specific requirements. [10:55] What are the additional benefits of implementing both TISAX & ISO 27001? Benefits include: Robust Information Security – Having both TISAX and ISO 27001 forms a strong and versatile information security infrastructure that will cover all of your operations. Easy Integration – These two Standards complement each other, and can easily be integrated. If you already have ISO 27001 in place, you have already completed a majority of the framework and will be familiar with what's required to earn and keep both your ISO certificate and TISAX Label. Customer Trust and Long-Term Resilience – TISAX is desired, if not an outright requirement for European based OEM's to work with suppliers. They require this because TISAX is a trusted Standard, a Label displays your commitment to information security within the automotive industry. It also helps to put you in a better position to both safeguard data as well as respond in the event of a data / security incident. Wider market access – If you supply to more than just the automotive industry, than having ISO 27001 in place will grant you access to the wider market that will recognise that Standard over TISAX. [12:05] What is a reasonable timeframe for implementing TISAX? This will depend on a number of factors including the type of organisation, the number of sites, resources available etc. The key thing to note is that this is note a 2 week project, it will take a number of months to get everything in place for your external assessment. A good measure of if you're ready is if you can score at least more than 2.71 on your self-assessment, and have completed a few internal audits to double check. If you already have ISO 27001 in place, than you're looking at between 3 – 6 months. If you do not have ISO 27001 in place than you're looking at 6 months minimum. For Level 2, you will need proof that ,you have everything in place, it's all been communicated and the relevant individuals have been trained. Level 3 requires everything to be in place and operating for a certain amount of time, typically around 3 months is ideal to start building a library of evidence ahead of your external assessment. Emma's top tip: Be honest in your self-assessment. It's there to be a benchmark, and you need to reflect on the reality of your position if you're to accurately assess what Level you are ready to be assessed against. [14:20] Core elements for success: As with any Standard, ISO or otherwise, TISAX will require leadership commitment in order to be successful. The requirements of TISAX need to come from the top down, just like with ISO 27001. The Leadership ultimately drive TISAX's success, by ensuring the relevant resources are in place, and involved individuals have the necessary time to implement and maintain the Label. For those within the Automotive Sector, TISAX is becoming an absolute requirement. It's being pushed as a tender requirement, so you may lose out on business if you opt to not earn a Label. [16:35] The key role of Internal Audits: As mentioned earlier, Internal Audits are a key part of the process for both TISAX and ISO 27001. It acts as a business health check to ensure you're on the right path. They can help identify areas which may be non-conforming or simply highlight opportunities for improvement. For TISAX, there is not outright requirement for 3rd party audits ahead of your assessment, however we would recommend them as a fresh pair of eyes can reveal things you may have overlooked. An external auditor will also be more unbias and can provide an honest review and feedback as to what TISAX Level you are ready for.   [18:25] How can Blackmores support you with TISAX Implementation?: We can provide as little or as much support as needed. This can include a fully guided implementation where we assist you through each step. This can apply to both TISAX and ISO 27001 if you wish to certify to both Standards. Other options include: ·      Assisting with your TISAX self-assessment (aka a Gap Analysis) ·      Conducting a Maturity Assessment ·      Conducting internal audits ·      On-site support during your TISAX assessment audit We are hap

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Blackmores is a pioneering consultancy firm with a distinctive approach to working with our clients to achieve and sustain high standards in Quality, Risk and Environmental Management. We'll be posting podcasts discussing ISO standards here very soon!