Where else can you hear a discussion on hope, shame, jealousy, Godly sorrow, fools, intimacy with God, suffering, and despair… the sickness unto death? This is a wonderful interview and I recommend listening to the end. There is a lot of wisdom and richness expressed. The thoughtful and grounded approach to scripture is encouraging. I value the way these topics were explored but ultimately directed back to intimacy with God. “If our primary and most sustaining relationship is with God then that should give us the courage and strength to risk ourselves in expressing love towards others.” I definitely want to listen to this episode again and share it with others. Oh, I also enjoyed the men’s transparency and their brotherly exchanges. Thank you for such a thoughtful offering.