Going Deeper

Justine Cheri Ordway
  • 4.9 (55)
  • Christianity
  • Updated Biweekly

Gospel conversations that challenge cultural narratives—nothing is too taboo here. We bring wisdom, humility, and grace to topics like mental health, social media, money, spiritual disciplines, and more.

  1. 2d ago

    When You Can’t Make Sense of God: Chad Bird Answers Bible Questions You're Afraid to Ask

    What do you do when God's justice, His love, or His goodness stops making sense? In this episode, biblical scholar Chad Bird joins me to talk honestly about wrestling with faith's hardest questions. Chad shares his own journey through failure and a dark night of the soul, and brings deep biblical insight to the tensions many of us are afraid to name—God's sovereignty over calamity, the nature of hell and divine justice, and what eternal life in Christ actually means. This is a rich, thoughtful conversation for anyone who has ever doubted and wondered whether their questions disqualify them. They don't. In this episode Chad answers:  1. Isaiah 45:7 says God “creates calamity.” What does that mean—and does it mean God creates moral evil? 2. “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated”—what does that mean? What did Esau do for God to hate him? 3. How should we understand the violence God commands or is directly associated with in the Old Testament—and what would you say to someone who says, “I can’t worship a God like that”? 4. Jesus said, “Ask and you will receive.” How do we reconcile that promise with the many sincere prayers that seem to go unanswered? 5. Why has the doctrine of hell become such a debated and touchy topic—and how should Christians approach questions like eternal conscious torment versus annihilation with both grace and truth? Timestamps: 00:00 — Introduction to Chad Bird and his journey11:34 — Chad's dark night of the soul23:54 — Exploring difficult biblical questions35:32 — Understanding God's nature and justice47:56 — The concept of hell and eternal life59:11 — Encouragement for the questioning believerResources & links: Chad Bird's website — https://chadbird.com1517 — https://fifteenseventeen.orgInstagram — https://instagram.com/chadbirdTwitter/X — https://twitter.com/chadbird

  2. Aug 25

    How to Become a Morning Person Like Jesus (It's Not What You Think)

    What if your mornings could be sacred instead of stressful—no matter whether you're a natural early riser or someone who dreads the alarm? In this episode, author Jennifer Dukes Lee joins me to reframe the whole idea of the "morning person." We dig into why God Himself is a morning person, what Scripture actually says about the significance of mornings, and how to start your day with Him in a way that fits your real personality, season, and chronotype. Jennifer brings both biblical depth and grounded practicality—covering sleep, rest, negative self-talk, small rituals, and how to keep showing up in the hard seasons of grief and darkness. If mornings have felt like something you're always failing at, this conversation is an invitation to begin again. In this episode: Why "you're a morning person because God is a morning person"—and what being made in His image has to do with your alarm clockWhat Scripture reveals about the significance and grittiness of biblical morningsReframing what "morning person" even means, beyond the 5 a.m. idealThe foundational role of sleep and rest in a good morningHow family upbringing and cultural narratives (and social media) shape how we see morningsUnderstanding your morning archetype and embracing your God-given personalityNavigating grief, mourning, and dark seasons without abandoning your routineWhy we shouldn't leave God in the quiet time—but carry Him through the whole daySimple, realistic steps to build a morning rhythm you can actually keepTimestamps: 00:00 — Introduction and morning struggles 02:53 — The importance of mornings in Scripture 06:09 — Reframing the concept of "morning person" 08:56 — The role of sleep in morning success 11:47 — Family influence on morning routines 14:55 — Cultural narratives and social media influence 18:14 — Practical steps to improve mornings 20:57 — The gritty reality of biblical mornings 23:57 — Finding hope in the morning 33:32 — Morning struggles and expectations 33:55 — Understanding morning archetypes 43:03 — Navigating grief and mourning 49:22 — Finding God in dark seasons 56:14 — Creating meaningful morning rituals Links: How to Love Your Morning by Jennifer Dukes Lee — https://howtoloveyourmorning.com Jennifer's website — https://jenniferdukeslee.com Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/jenniferdukeslee/ Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/jenniferdukeslee

  3. Aug 18

    How to Fall In Love with Scripture: Bible Study Secrets with Bethany Lauren

    If you've ever wanted to know God more deeply but struggled to stay consistent in His Word, this conversation is for you. I sit down with Bible teacher Bethany Lauren (Simply Bible on Instagram)—pastor's wife, mom of two, and classical high school literature and philosophy teacher—to talk about why Bible study matters, the mistakes that keep us stuck, and simple, practical ways to make Scripture a real part of daily life. Bethany shares her own story of coming to the Word as a grieving seven-year-old who lost her mom, and how a leather-bound Bible from her grandparents became her lifeline. We get honest about distraction, the tension between the intellect and the heart, and why no amount of Christian content can replace time alone with Jesus in the "prayer closet." Follow Bethany: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/simply_bible/ Substack: https://substack.com/@simplybible/ Join her book club here.  In this episode: Bethany's story: finding God in the Word after lossThe two biggest distractions from Bible study—phone addiction and the to-do list—and how to fight them"Bible first, work second": protecting time in the Word when ministry is your jobWhy enjoying Scripture matters more than performing it, and how to romanticize your time in the WordReading fluency, easier translations, and letting go of the shame around bothThe two big Bible study mistakes: cherry-picking verses vs. worshiping perfect interpretationWhy loving the Bible isn't the same as knowing Christ—and the danger of "outsourced discipleship"Holding intellect and heart together without losing eitherFaith as a community project: why the quiet time should propel us outwardA simple three-stage framework for overwhelmed readersChapters 00:00 Introduction to Bible study and its significance 02:12 Bethany's personal journey and passion for scripture 06:47 Common distractions and how to overcome them 14:49 Different approaches to engaging with the Bible 20:07 The importance of reading the Bible as a letter or novel 24:58 Practical tips for starting and maintaining Bible study 30:13 Avoiding cherry-picking verses and misinterpretation 35:04 The role of grace and humility in Bible study 40:13 The importance of community and sharing faith experiences 44:57 Practical steps for creating a dedicated space for prayer and study 50:05 The balance between study, prayer, and service 54:47 Encouragement for those feeling overwhelmed or distracted 01:00:04 The significance of grace and God's faithfulness in our journey

  4. Aug 11

    Does God Care How Productive You Are? with Reagan Rose

    What if productivity isn't about doing more, but about stewarding your life for God's glory? In this episode, Reagan Rose (founder of Redeeming Productivity) joins me to unpack what the Bible actually says about work, fruitfulness, and faithfulness. We get into why so much of modern productivity culture runs on a secular engine, how the heart behind our work matters more than the output, and practical ways to fight the distractions—phone addiction chief among them—that keep us from living intentionally. Whether you're drowning in a to-do list or wondering if God even cares how you spend your Tuesday afternoon, this conversation reframes the whole thing. In this episode: Why secular and biblical views of productivity ultimately collide Productivity as stewardship rather than self-interest How fruitfulness—not output—is the Bible's picture of a productive life The Holy Spirit as the power source for our work, not sheer self-discipline Redeeming mundane tasks through heart and attitude The real roots of procrastination, and practical ways to fight it Striving hard while still resting in grace Managing attention and digital distraction in a phone-addicted age Pruning commitments to live with purpose Timestamps: 00:00 — Introduction and guest introduction 01:21 — Reagan's journey into Christian productivity 03:20 — Where secular and biblical views of productivity collide 06:20 — The lack of practical discipleship in the church 07:40 — Defining biblical productivity: stewardship vs. self-interest 10:12 — Living in the Spirit: fruitfulness and connection to Christ 11:38 — Does God care about productivity? Eternal vs. earthly focus 14:05 — The power source: Holy Spirit vs. self-discipline 17:26 — Redeeming mundane tasks: heart and attitude 20:13 — Living with an eternal mindset in daily life 23:01 — The problem of procrastination: heart and systems 26:44 — Practical strategies to overcome procrastination 36:37 — Balancing effort and grace: striving in the Spirit 39:29 — The ambition of the early church vs. modern ambition 45:42 — Managing attention and digital distractions 50:36 — Pruning commitments and living intentionally 55:17 — The call to serve and the mission from God 58:33 — The role of the church and spiritual gifts 01:00:03 — Living with purpose: the gospel and daily work 01:01:00 — Closing remarks and resources

  5. Aug 4

    A Better Way to Talk About Women's Roles in the Church with Jen Oshman

    What does God actually say about womanhood? In a culture where the answer shifts depending on who you ask—redefine it, reject it, celebrate it, reinvent it—this episode goes back to Scripture itself. Justine sits down with author and Bible teacher Jen Oshman to talk about her Bible study Very Good, which traces the entire storyline of Scripture to recover God's beautiful design for women. Whether you're single, married, working, raising children, or simply trying to follow Jesus faithfully, this conversation offers clarity, encouragement, and a fresh invitation to open the Bible for yourself. About Jen Oshman Jen Oshman has been married for 27 years and is a mother to four daughters. After 15 years on the mission field in Japan and the Czech Republic, she returned to Colorado, where she and her husband unexpectedly planted a church in their living room. Alongside her church work, Jen is passionate about writing and speaking. She's the author of several books and Bible studies, including Very Good and Created on Purpose: God's Design for Girls. What We Cover in This Episode A global perspective on gender roles. Fifteen years overseas gave Jen a vantage point most American Christians never get. In many parts of the world, the conversation centers on the call to evangelize and teach—not on debating the limits placed on women. Returning to the U.S., she was struck by how negative and restrictive the discussion had become, fixated on what women can't do rather than what they're called to. Why she wrote Very Good. Rather than telling women what to think, Jen invites them to explore Scripture for themselves. She hands readers the tools of hermeneutics so they can interpret the Bible in context and arrive at a confident, grounded understanding of God's design. Keeping secondary issues in their place. Jen makes the case that questions about women in ministry, while genuinely important, shouldn't overshadow the primary doctrines of salvation and the nature of God. She advocates for unity among believers who can support their convictions from Scripture, even when they land in different places. The women of Scripture you need to know. From Tamar and Rahab to Jesus' interactions with women in Luke, Jen highlights how God consistently uses complex, real women to advance His kingdom—and what their stories reveal about His design. Key Takeaways Biblical womanhood is rooted in Scripture and meant to be understood in a far broader context than cultural limitations.Engaging the Bible personally empowers women to find their own voices and convictions.Unity in the church means holding firmly to primary issues while making room for diverse views on secondary matters.Studying the whole Bible—not isolated proof-texts—is essential to understanding women's roles.Chapter Markers 00:00 — Introduction to biblical womanhood and God's design01:05 — Jen Oshman's background and call to ministry04:19 — Cultural differences in understanding women's roles05:46 — The importance of studying Scripture in context15:13 — Genesis and the creation of woman17:58 — The meaning of "helper" in biblical context19:52 — Partnership and responsibility in God's design28:53 — Stories of women in Scripture: Tamar and Rahab45:29 — Jesus' interactions with women in Luke52:36 — Living out your calling as a woman todayResources Mentioned Very Good Bible Study by Jen Oshman — find it on AmazonCreated on Purpose: God's Design for Girls — find it on AmazonConnect with Jen Oshman Website: jenoshman.comInstagram: @jenoshmanWant to dive deeper? Pick up Jen's Bible study Very Good for a comprehensive look at what God says about womanhood—and don't forget to subscribe to Going Deeper wherever you listen. --- Keywords biblical womanhood, God's design for women, what does the Bible say about women, women in Scripture, biblical womanhood Bible study, Christian womanhood, gender roles in the Bible, women in ministry, Genesis design for women, ezer helper Hebrew meaning, studying Scripture in context, Christian women podcast, unity in the church secondary issues, Tamar and Rahab Bible stories, single married working Christian women, recovering God's design for women

  6. Jul 28

    What Your Spiritual Disciplines are Missing: Dependency on God

    We treat spiritual disciplines like a self-improvement checklist—read the Bible, pray, show up—and then wonder why it all feels like one more thing to manage. This episode digs into what's actually missing: not more willpower or a better routine, but dependency on God. When we reframe prayer and Scripture as lifelines rather than optional habits, everything changes. In this episode: Why treating spiritual disciplines as optional turns them into a to-do listThe difference between self-improvement and genuine spiritual growthHow inconsistency often signals a dependency problem, not a discipline problemThe armor of God (Ephesians 6) as a framework for relying on His strengthEsther as a model of dependency—prayer and fasting before facing the king Key takeaways: Spiritual disciplines aren't optional habits; they're the means of connecting with GodDependency on God is the engine of real spiritual growthConsistency flows from reliance, not the other way aroundTimestamps: 1:08 — Intro: what spiritual disciplines are missing3:57 — Treating spiritual disciplines as optional habits8:08 — Main thesis: disciplines as a means to know God, not an end11:02 — Inconsistency traced to a lack of dependence on God14:44 — Disciplines as lifelines and weapons of warfare17:27 — Ephesians 6 and the armor of God21:17 — The example of Esther28:10 — Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace33:30 — Dependency #1: depending on God in the valley36:37 — Dependency #2: depending on God for sanctification38:36 — Naming a sin struggle and pursuing change41:27 — Dane Ortlund's Deeper on despairing of self and opening to the Spirit46:00 — Dependency #3: depending on God through faith-building experiences53:53 — Jesus: "the Son can do nothing of his own accord"58:12 — Jesus as deeply dependent on the Father59:10 — Psalm 119's "give me life," the vine and branches, life in God's Word65:32 — Recap of the three dependency categories70:22 — Closing CTAs and book update71:51 — Bonus: practical prayer and Bible reading tools76:02 — Final wrap-up

  7. 12/17/2025

    Rethinking the Good Life: Comfort, Suffering, and the Presence of God with Shelbi Shutt

    In this episode of the Going Deeper podcast, I sit down with speaker Shelbi Shutt to talk about faith, suffering, and what real comfort looks like in a world obsessed with ease and leisure. Shelbi lives with muscular dystrophy, and her story has profoundly shaped the way she understands the good life, discipleship, and the presence of God. Her honesty pushes us to examine what we run to for comfort and whether those places actually bring life. We talk about how suffering exposes the beliefs we carry beneath the surface. She shares how her diagnosis forced her to confront the “Jesus plus” gospel she didn’t realize she held, and how choosing to participate in the sufferings of Christ has formed her spiritual maturity. She reminds us that true comfort is found in the presence of God. In a world filled with noise, discipling our attention becomes a real part of following Jesus. We explore how prayer reorients us, how lament and celebration can coexist, and how resurrection life isn’t just a future hope but a present reality that shapes our perspective today. Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JustineCheri Subscribe to The Digest: https://justinecheri.kit.com/ab6b561afa Connect with Shelbi: https://solo.to/shelbishutt Shelbi's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shelbishutt/ Timestamps: 00:00 — Introduction  04:19 — Shelbi’s Journey and Diagnosis  07:17 — Faith and Suffering  10:20 — The Good Life and the Jesus Plus Gospel  16:27 — The Role of Suffering in Spiritual Growth  19:16 — The Illusion of Worldly Comfort  25:14 — Prayer and True Comfort  28:20 — Paradise and the Hope of Restoration  31:34 — Living in the Resurrection Life  40:19 — Discipling Our Attention in a Distracted World  42:16 — Longing for the Presence of the Lord  44:55 — Lament and Celebration: Coexisting Realities  48:31 — Finding Comfort in Daily Struggles  52:43 — Current Projects and Future Aspirations

  8. 12/11/2025

    Longing for Home in a Rootless and Restless World with my Editor Eddie Larow

    In this episode of the Going Deeper podcast, I sit down with my own acquisitions editor, Eddie Larow of Baker Books. We talk about what an acquisitions editor actually does, how he helps authors connect with the readers who need their message, and how my own unexpected journey into authorship was guided by God’s timing. From there, we widen the conversation to the cultural landscape shaping Gen Z: their longing for home, the pull toward community, and the deep sense of spiritual homelessness many young adults feel in a secular age. We explore how modernity and mobility have created restlessness, why “nomadic modernity” captures so much of our cultural moment, and how the return to historic churches reveals a desire for structure, order, and rootedness. We end with a call to localism—pursuing embodied, committed community right where we live. Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JustineCheri Subscribe to The Digest: https://justinecheri.kit.com/ab6b561afa Eddie's Article "Gen Z Longs for Home": https://firstthings.com/gen-z-longs-for-home/  Eddie's Substack: https://substack.com/@eddielarow Timestamps: 00:00 — Introduction  02:05 — Understanding the Role of an Acquisitions Editor  04:30 — The Journey to Authorship  09:45 — Cultural Observations: Gen Z’s Longing for Home  13:10 — The Impact of Modernity on Community and Belonging  19:07 — Exploring Nomadic Modernity and Its Implications  27:20 — Cultural Shifts and the Search for Authenticity  31:21 — Nostalgia and the Desire to Return to Simplicity  33:46 — The Skills Gap and Superficiality in Trad Aesthetics  37:32 — Spiritual Homelessness and the Need for Community  41:24 — The Search for Objective Truth in a Postmodern World  47:04 — The Longing for Tradition and Authenticity in Faith  52:51 — Ecumenical Unity and the Pursuit of Christ  01:00:47 — Localism and the Call to Community Engagement

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About

Gospel conversations that challenge cultural narratives—nothing is too taboo here. We bring wisdom, humility, and grace to topics like mental health, social media, money, spiritual disciplines, and more.

Information

  • Creator
    Justine Cheri Ordway
  • Years Active
    2019 - 2026
  • Episodes
    32
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Going Deeper
  • Show Website
    Going Deeper