The Human Risk Podcast

Human Risk
  • 5.0 (14)
  • Social Sciences
  • Updated Biweekly

People are often described as the largest asset in most organisations. They are also the biggest single cause of risk. This podcast explores the topic of 'human risk', or "the risk of people doing things they shouldn't or not doing things they should", and examines how behavioural science can help us mitigate it. It also looks at 'human reward', or "how to get the most out of people". When we manage human risk, we often stifle human reward. Equally, when we unleash human reward, we often inadvertently increase human risk. To pitch guests please email guest@humanriskpodcast.com

  1. 3d ago

    Mark Heywood on The Stories We Tell About Ourselves

    What parts of yourself have you learned to hide in order to be taken seriously? My guest on this episode is Mark Heywood, a friend of the show, returning guest and someone I've collaborated with on a number of projects. Episode Summary & Guest Profile Mark has spent more than twenty years working in crisis management and operational resilience, while simultaneously building a successful career as a bestselling novelist, screenwriter and, more recently, stand-up comedian. On the morning we recorded this conversation, Mark published an article marking his fifty-first birthday. In it, he reflected on the pressure many of us feel to present only one version of ourselves professionally, arguing that his creative and corporate lives were never really separate. As he puts it, they were 'not two jobs, but one obsession wearing two different lanyards.' That simple idea becomes the starting point for a much wider discussion about the stories we tell ourselves, and the stories organisations tell themselves. Along the way we explore: Why "stay in your lane" may say more about other people's expectations than your own potential.Why organisations often encourage people to bring their whole selves to work, while rewarding conformity.What interviews, dress codes and organisational culture reveal about human behaviour.Why stories often influence behaviour more effectively than rules, policies and frameworks.What films can teach us about operational resilience, cybersecurity and crisis management.Why the Titanic remains one of the most powerful lessons in organisational failure.How imagination is a strategic capability rather than a soft skill.Why thinking through "severe but plausible" scenarios requires organisations to become better storytellers.Links Mark's birthday article: "A Birthday Declaration from Someone Who Spent Over Twenty Years Pretending to Be Half of Himself" (LinkedIn) Mark's Behind The Spine podcast The Writing Salon Behind The Spine podcast Mark on LinkedIn Mark's previous appearances on the show talking about The Creative Industries under COVID, and Human Risk in the Creative Industries Films, Stories & People MentionedDie Hard  Apollo 13 The Martian The Odyssey (Christopher Nolan)Don't Look UpSnakes on a Plane Sharknado Noah's Ark RMS TitanicRachel Heyhoe Flint Jeremy King  AI-Generated Timestamped Summary 00:00 – Why do we hide parts of ourselves to be taken seriously? 03:40 – Mark explains why he stopped separating his creative and corporate identities. 08:00 – Which hobbies and outside interests are considered professionally acceptable—and why? 10:30 – Job interviews, authenticity and bringing your whole self to work. 16:00 – Jeremy King on why behaviour matters more than dress codes. 19:00 – Rachel Heyhoe Flint, the MCC and what institutional rules reveal about culture. 23:00 – Why stories influence behaviour more effectively than rules. 24:00 – The Trojan Horse and using films to teach cybersecurity and resilience. 29:00 – The Titanic as a lesson in organisational resilience rather than maritime history. 32:00 – Conduct versus outcomes: why testing matters more than compliance. 36:00 – Using stories and popular culture to make risk real. 38:00 – Noah's Ark, history and the enduring power of storytelling. 40:30 – CrowdStrike, PPE and why organisations keep repeating the same mistakes. 46:00 – Stories aren't predictions—they're a way of exploring possibility. 49:00 – A ransomware exercise and the danger of relying on fixed policies. 52:00 – Returning to the Titanic: preparing for the inquiry before the crisis. 55:00 – Thinking like an attacker and challenging assumptions about cyber risk. 58:00 – Taylor Swift, insurance and why seemingly ordinary data can become highly sensitive. 1:02:00 – The idea of "risk inflation" and why yesterday's rules aren't enough. 1:10:00 – Why memorable stories change behaviour more effectively than realistic scenarios. 1:15:00 – Reverse stress testing and imagining what could really break an organisation. 1:20:00 – RAG ratings, reporting and the danger of looking resilient instead of being resilient. 1:23:00 – Final reflections on creativity, identity and why being more than one thing is a strength.

    Mark Heywood on The Stories We Tell About Ourselves

  2. Jul 21

    Gill Kernick on Grenfell - the disaster we still haven't learned from

    When something goes badly wrong, we investigate it. Reports are written. Recommendations are made. Lessons are identified. But do we actually learn them? Episode Summary Returning to the show, Gill Kernick joins me to discuss the substantially revised second edition of her book about the Grenfell Tower disaster, following the publication of the Grenfell Inquiry's final report. Gill has a unique perspective on Grenfell. She lived on the 21st floor of the tower before moving out three years before the fire. Professionally, she has spent decades helping organisations in high-hazard industries understand leadership, safety and major accidents. When Gill first appeared on the podcast, the Inquiry was still underway. Seven years later, its conclusions have revealed an even more disturbing picture—not of one catastrophic mistake, but of systemic failure involving government, regulators, manufacturers, certification bodies and the construction industry. But this episode isn't just about Grenfell. It's about why organisations struggle to learn from failure, why compliance isn't the same as understanding, why we crave simple explanations for complex problems, and why genuine learning is much harder than writing another report. If you haven't already listened to Gill's previous appearances on the podcast, I'd strongly recommend doing so. Together, the conversations chart how understanding evolves as new evidence emerges. What you'll learn In this episode In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore: Why Gill decided to write a second edition after the Grenfell Inquiry concludedThe shocking scale of the systemic failures uncovered by the InquiryWhy disasters rarely have a single root causeThe hidden dangers of deregulation and "compliance theatre"Why organisations identify lessons but rarely learn themThe importance of understanding the spirit—not just the letter—of regulationWhy complexity requires different kinds of leadershipHow AI might help organisations learn lessons in real timeWhy hope is, as Gill puts it, "an act of resistance"AI-Generated.Timestamp Summary 00:00 – Do we really learn lessons from disasters? 02:45 – Gill's personal connection to Grenfell Tower 05:15 – Why the second edition became necessary after the Inquiry  06:30 – The Inquiry's most shocking findings 10:00 – When regulators knew the risks—but failed to act 12:00 – Implicit trust and why we rely on systems we don't understand 13:00 – Deregulation and the unintended consequences of political narratives 17:00 – Compliance versus understanding the intent behind regulation 20:00 – Why regulations struggle to keep pace with technology and complexity 24:00 – Hope as an act of resistance 25:00 – Why we don't actually learn lessons  27:00 – Is a seven-year inquiry too long? 33:00 – Why "post-Grenfell" reforms miss the real point 37:00 – Communities of grief and change  39:00 – Why Gill rewrote the book instead of writing a new one 44:00 – How the experience changed Gill's own thinking  50:00 – Speaking up in ways that actually get heard 53:30 – Practical advice for learning in complex systems 55:00 – "Lessons learning" instead of "lessons learned"  59:00 – Final reflections Links Gill's website, The Grenfell Enquirer Her book 'Catastrophe & Systemic Change' Gill's LinkedIn:  Her previous show appearancesGill Kernick on the Grenfell Tower Disaster — Part OneGill Kernick on the Grenfell Tower Disaster — Part TwoTopics discussedGrenfell Tower Inquiry – Final ReportThe Grenfell Enquirer (articles and resources)Arup's Building Safety Change FrameworkPeople and ideas mentionedDave Snowden (Cognitive Edge)Cynefin Framework overviewBackground incidents referencedPiper Alpha disaster (Encyclopaedia Britannica)Lakanal House fire (Wikipedia)Deepwater Horizon oil spill (Encyclopaedia Britannica)

    Gill Kernick on Grenfell - the disaster we still haven't learned from

  3. Jul 5

    Anna Rössler on Finding Your Voice — Online, On Stage and At Work

    What does jazz singing have to do with LinkedIn? More than you might think. This week's guest, Anna Rössler, has built a career helping senior leaders find their voice online while simultaneously developing her own as a singer-songwriter. Rather than separating her professional and creative identities, Anna has found a way to bring them together, and in doing so offers some valuable lessons about authenticity, confidence and human connection.  We explore why so much online content feels performative, how AI is changing the way we communicate, and why the best personal brands aren't really about branding at all. Along the way we discuss experimentation, creativity, stage fright, networking, and the importance of building a life around the things that genuinely energise you. Whether you're trying to communicate more effectively at work, build a presence online, or simply find more balance between your career and your passions, there's plenty to take away from this conversation. Episode Summary On this episode, we discuss: Why authenticity is more than simply 'being yourself.'How personal branding is really about building trust.Why social media should be treated as a conversation, not a broadcast.The hidden metrics that matter more than likes and impressions.How to use AI without losing your own voice.Why experimentation beats chasing algorithms.What performing music teaches us about confidence and communication.How side passions can make us better professionals.Why designing your environment is often more important than motivation.The value of creating a life that gives you energy instead of draining it.Guest Profile Anna Rössler is a marketing and LinkedIn specialist who helps organisations and senior leaders communicate more effectively through content and personal branding. Alongside her marketing career, she's an accomplished jazz and pop vocalist, songwriter and performer. Her work sits at the intersection of communication, creativity and authenticity, helping people find a voice that genuinely sounds like them—whether they're posting on LinkedIn or performing on stage. Follow Anna on LinkedIn and on her personal website.

    Anna Rössler on Finding Your Voice — Online, On Stage and At Work

  4. Jun 25

    David Grosse on The Unconvention

    What happens when two people who spend their careers thinking about human behaviour meet in a London pub and start complaining about conferences? Apparently, they decide to organise one. Episode Summary In this episode I'm joined by David Grosse, founder of behavioural risk advisory firm Behavor, to talk about The Unconvention, an event we're creating together that aims to rethink how conversations about risk, culture and human behaviour actually happen. But this isn't just an episode about an event. David and I explore why organisations continue to treat behavioural risk as a niche topic, despite human decision-making sitting at the heart of almost every organisational failure. We discuss why so many conferences on culture and conduct feel formulaic, why measuring culture through board packs can miss the point entirely, and why stories often reveal far more than statistics ever can. Along the way we touch on Silicon Valley Bank, Plato's Cave, behavioural science, organisational culture, productive discomfort, and why the best events might leave you with fewer certainties than when you arrived. If you're curious about The Unconvention, or simply interested in why we think there has to be a better way to have these conversations, I hope you'll enjoy listening. Links David on LinkedIn David's company Behavor The Unconvention Website and ticketing site.AI-Generated Timestamped summary 00:00 – Christian introduces the episode and explains how a conversation in a London pub led to the creation of The Unconvention. 02:20 – David shares his journey from chartered accountant and banker to behavioural risk specialist, and explains why human behaviour became the focus of his work. 05:30 – Why behavioural risk still isn't taken as seriously as other forms of risk, despite sitting behind so many organisational failures. 11:30 – Christian and David discuss what's wrong with many industry conferences, from scripted panels to sponsor-led agendas, and why they rarely change anyone's thinking. 18:00 – The conversation turns to culture, governance and why dashboards and board packs can never fully capture human behaviour. 24:30 – Stories, rather than statistics alone, often provide the richest insights into how organisations really work. 29:00 – The origins of The Unconvention and the principles behind creating an event that deliberately breaks with conference convention 35:30 – Why attendees are being invited to help shape the event, and how behavioural thinking has influenced everything from the format to the ticketing model. 42:00 – Christian and David discuss what they hope participants will take away: curiosity, productive discomfort and conversations that continue long after the event ends. 48:45 – Final details on The Unconvention, where to find David, and the unexpectedly simple story behind the name "Behavor".

    David Grosse on The Unconvention

  5. Jun 11

    Freewheeling on Human Risk with Thomas Ableman

    Why is it so hard to stop people playing vides, music or phone calls out loud on public transport — and what does that tell us about changing human behaviour? Show Summary This episode of The Human Risk Podcast is a little different. It is a cross-cast from The Freewheeling Podcast, hosted by Thomas Ableman, in which I join Thomas to tackle a problem raised by the show's most important listener: his mum. The issue? People using phones, videos, music and speaker calls out loud on trains and buses. What begins as a seemingly small transport etiquette problem quickly becomes a much bigger conversation about social norms, antisocial behaviour, customer experience, incentives, enforcement and the limits of signage. In our discussion, we explore why simply telling people to stop may not work, how reactance can make things worse, and why transport operators need to think more creatively about behaviour change. Along the way, we consider quiet carriages, “electronic entertainment carriages”, cheap headphones, better-targeted messaging, staff intervention, social media campaigns and the wider question of whether public transport operators are responsible for the behaviour of the humans they carry. The Freewheeling Podcast The Freewheeling Podcast  is a show for transport change-makers. It explores how we can move forwards faster, bringing listeners fresh voices, new ideas and unconventional thinking. While it has a strong focus on transport and mobility, the show also ranges into entrepreneurship, politics, public policy, cities and how systems can be designed to work better for the people who use them. Links The Freewheeling Podcast - https://www.freewheeling.info/the-freewheeling-podcast Thomas on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasableman/

    Freewheeling on Human Risk with Thomas Ableman

  6. May 30

    Jill Wick on The Human Side of Cybersecurity

    What if the best way to improve cybersecurity — or any other form of human risk — wasn't another policy, training course, or piece of technology, but a board game?  That's the kind of question my guest, Jill Wick, loves asking. Episode Summary  Jill is a cybersecurity awareness consultant, business psychologist, podcaster, and author. Her work sits at the intersection of psychology, marketing, behavioural science, and cybersecurity, and she is passionate about helping organisations understand that security is fundamentally a human challenge, not simply a technical one.  Drawing on her experience in fraud prevention and her academic background in business psychology, Jill explains why traditional approaches to awareness often fail, why experimentation matters, and how a simple Snakes and Ladders-inspired game can create meaningful conversations about risk and decision-making. The discussion ranges far beyond cybersecurity. We explore creativity, curiosity, communication, organisational culture, social media, learning, and the challenge of measuring success when the outcome you're seeking is something that doesn't happen. Key Topics In this episode, we discuss: Why cybersecurity is ultimately a human problem rather than a technology problemThe psychology behind phishing, scams, and social engineeringWhy more policies and more training often fail to change behaviourHow unclear policies can create confusion instead of complianceThe role of curiosity, creativity, and experimentation in risk managementHow games can create psychologically safe environments for learningThe importance of conversation and peer learning in awareness programmesWhat compliance, safety, conduct, and operational risk professionals can learn from cybersecurity awarenessWhy awareness professionals should think more like marketersThe value of experimentation, iteration, and A/B testingHow social media can help build communities around important ideasWhy measuring engagement may be just as important as measuring failuresGuest Biography Jill Wick is a cybersecurity awareness consultant, business psychologist, author, and podcast host who specialises in the human side of cybersecurity. Drawing on a background in fraud prevention and behavioural science, she helps organisations build stronger security cultures through creative, engaging approaches that go beyond traditional training and compliance. Known for her innovative use of games, psychology, and marketing techniques, Jill is a passionate advocate for making cybersecurity awareness more human, effective, and enjoyable Links Jill's LinkedIn profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-wick/ Jill's website - https://www.jillwick.com/ Cyber & Psych, Jill's podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/5uteiqHvCTGCVtCsKCzGJ6?si=322ef51fd6a3423c&nd=1&dlsi=c6d8309550784df9 Security-Awareness-Tools, Jill's book - https://www.isbn.de/buch/9783658511111/security-awareness-tools AI-Generated Timestamped Outline 00:00 – Introduction02:15 – Jill's background: From fraud prevention and business psychology to cybersecurity awareness.05:30 – Understanding why people fall for scams, phishing attacks, and social engineering.06:00 – Why cybersecurity is fundamentally a human problem, not just a technical one.08:00 – The limitations of rules, policies, and traditional awareness training.12:00 – The origin of Jill's cybersecurity board game and why simplicity matters.14:00 – How games create psychologically safe conversations and improve learning.19:30 – The game as a conversation tool: building culture, peer learning, and engagement.22:00 – Creativity, curiosity, and the courage to experiment with new approaches.26:00 – What cybersecurity awareness can learn from marketing, advertising, and A/B testing.35:30 – Why awareness and technology must work together rather than compete.41:30 – New projects: workshops, events, games, and Jill's forthcoming book Security Awareness Tools.44:00 – Lessons for compliance and risk professionals: attention is a limited resource.51:00 – Measuring success: engagement, participation, reporting, and positive signals.

    Jill Wick on The Human Side of Cybersecurity

  7. May 23

    Tobias Sturesson: from cult to corporate culture

    What can businesses learn from cults? It might sound like an uncomfortable comparison: one involves strategy meetings, values statements and quarterly targets; the other manipulation, charismatic leaders and extreme behaviour. But perhaps the distinction isn't as clear as we'd like to think. Both create identities and shared beliefs. Both shape how people think and behave. And both can evolve gradually in ways that are hard to recognise from the inside. Unhealthy cultures rarely appear overnight. Small compromises become normal, difficult questions become harder to ask, and behaviours that once felt uncomfortable slowly become accepted. Episode Overview On this episode, I'm joined by Tobias Sturesson, culture advisor and author of You Can Culture, whose understanding of organisational culture comes not from business school, but from a deeply personal experience growing up inside a religious community that gradually evolved into a cult. Drawing on his own story — and his work helping organisations create healthier cultures — Tobias explains why good people can become part of unhealthy systems, why speaking up is often far harder than leaders realise, and why culture is shaped far less by mission statements than by the everyday behaviours people learn to accept. We also explore: How communities and organisations can slowly drift into unhealthy patternsWhy leaving damaging environments is often much harder than outsiders imagineThe role of sunk costs, identity and belonging in keeping people trappedWhy organisations often mistake symptoms for root causesThe difference between “tone from the top” and “example from the top”Why humility may be one of the most underrated leadership traitsThe dangers of leaders creating the appearance of listening without genuinely hearing peopleWhy culture initiatives often fail to create lasting behavioural changeHow everyday leadership habits shape organisational cultureWhy discomfort is often necessary for growthGuest Profile - Tobias Sturesson Tobias is a culture advisor, speaker and author focused on helping organisations build healthier cultures and develop more responsible leadership practices. His work combines personal experience with research and practical interventions designed to help organisations identify and address the root causes that undermine cultural health. He is the author of You Can Culture: Transformative Leadership Habits for a Thriving Workplace, Positive Impact and Lasting Success. Links Tobias on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiassturesson/ Heart Management - https://www.heartmanagement.org/ Tobias' Book: You Can Culture – https://youcanculture.com/ AI-Generated Timestamped Summary 00:00 — Introduction: What can cults teach us about culture? 03:00 — Tobias's story of growing up inside a community that became a cult 08:30 — How unhealthy environments evolve gradually 11:00 — Why leaving can be harder than joining 13:00 — The importance of people who help without judging 16:00 — Turning personal experience into professional purpose 19:00 — Why organisations often misunderstand their own problems 23:00 — Humility as a leadership strength 26:00 — The tension between expertise and curiosity 29:00 — Why business systems often reward the wrong behaviours 33:00 — The importance of listening and asking better questions 38:00 — Why reflection matters in fast-moving environments 42:00 — Culture as everyday conversations and habits 45:00 — Leadership signals and behavioural norms 49:00 — Building healthier cultures through leadership habits 53:00 — Why changing culture is difficult but necessary 56:00 — Creating a movement for healthier leadership

    Tobias Sturesson: from cult to corporate culture

  8. May 8

    Will Tarrant on Service: Closing the gap between brand promise and reality

    What makes great service? It’s one of those things we instantly recognise when we experience it, but struggle to define. And while organisations spend huge amounts of time trying to design seamless customer experiences, the reality is that service doesn’t happen in strategy documents or training manuals. It happens in real time, between real people, in messy and unpredictable situations where eventually the playbook runs out. Episode Overview In this episode, Christian is joined by Will Tarrant, CEO of Freeman Group, who focus on helping organisations close the gap between what they promise customers and what actually gets delivered in reality. Drawing on decades of experience across hospitality, aviation, healthcare and destinations, Will explains why compliance-based training can sometimes increase hidden risk, why empowerment without judgment can quickly become chaos, and why the real differentiator in service is rarely the process itself — it’s the human response when something unexpected happens. Along the way, the conversation explores: Why “making people feel a certain way” is the real job in hospitalityThe hidden risks created by over-reliance on scripts and SOPsWhy organisations often confuse solving problems with compensating customersThe psychology of customer perception and expectationHow hotels, airports and even destinations manage emotional experiencesWhy breakfast might be the best indicator of a hotel’s qualityThe tension between automation and human interactionWhy good service recovery is about judgment, not generosityAs Will puts it: “Compliance-based training reduces visible risk, but it increases hidden risk.” Although framed around hospitality and customer service, this episode is really about something much broader: how humans make decisions when the script no longer applies. Guest Profile - Will Tarrant Will Tarrant is the CEO of Freeman Group, a consultancy that helps organisations design and deliver service cultures that align operational reality with brand promise. The company works globally across hospitality, aviation, healthcare, retail and tourism destinations. LinksWill on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/willtarrant/ Freeman Group website - https://freemangroupsolutions.com/ AI-Generated Timestamped Summary 00:00 — Introduction: Why service failures create risk02:30 — Closing the gap between promise and reality07:00 — Hospitality is about making people feel something11:30 — The hidden risk of compliance-based training13:00 — What happens when the playbook runs out15:00 — Scripts, authenticity and service style16:00 — Measuring service quality19:00 — Perception is reality20:00 — Why empowerment needs structure22:00 — Seeing service everywhere24:00 — The timeless mechanics of good service26:00 — Automation versus human interaction29:00 — “The customer is always your customer”30:00 — Solving problems versus compensating customers33:00 — Inheriting other people’s problems36:00 — Hiring for judgment, not just experience39:00 — The changing status of hospitality careers43:00 — Humans as the source of unpredictability47:00 — Why hotel breakfast matters50:00 — Choice overload and decision fatigue53:00 — Applying service thinking beyond hospitality55:00 — The gap between marketing and operational reality

    Will Tarrant on Service: Closing the gap between brand promise and reality
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5
out of 5
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About

People are often described as the largest asset in most organisations. They are also the biggest single cause of risk. This podcast explores the topic of 'human risk', or "the risk of people doing things they shouldn't or not doing things they should", and examines how behavioural science can help us mitigate it. It also looks at 'human reward', or "how to get the most out of people". When we manage human risk, we often stifle human reward. Equally, when we unleash human reward, we often inadvertently increase human risk. To pitch guests please email guest@humanriskpodcast.com

Information

  • Creator
    Human Risk
  • Years Active
    2019 - 2026
  • Episodes
    375
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright Human Risk
  • Show Website
    The Human Risk Podcast

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