The Scottish Property Podcast

Nick Ponty and Steven Clark

A weekly podcast focused on keeping property investors informed and educated on the Scottish property market. Co-hosts Nick Ponty and Steven Clark share their own experiences, answer questions and talk to experts in the industry.

  1. 14h ago

    He Made £30K on His First Property Flip — Then Went All In

    Ryan Cullen went from working as an electrician to making approximately £30,000 profit on his first property flip—a result that convinced him property could become more than a side project. Instead of simply repeating the same strategy, Ryan invested in his education, started learning how to source deals and cut his salary in half to work part-time. After one heated phone call with his manager, he quit the job he had held for eight years and committed fully to building a property business. Ryan explains how the business scaled to around 20 properties in six months, including buy-to-lets, serviced accommodation and an aparthotel. He also shares why the team has since focused on reducing leverage, improving due diligence and giving a smaller number of investors a more complete portfolio-building service. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS • How Ryan went from a difficult time at school to completing an electrical apprenticeship • The employee share-save scheme that gave him the capital to begin investing • Buying a rundown Bathgate property without fully understanding the numbers • Completing much of the refurbishment himself and making approximately £30,000 profit • Why he spent money on property education instead of immediately buying another project • Setting himself the goal of sourcing one deal within six months • Cutting his salary in half so he could learn the property business part-time • The phone call that led him to quit his electrical job and go all in • Scaling from no properties to around 20 units in the business within six months • A £35,000 serviced-accommodation purchase producing nearly £2,000 in strong months • The aparthotel generating approximately £10,000–£12,000 net per month • Refurbishing eight Helensburgh flats for longer serviced-accommodation bookings • Why cash flow and loan-to-value matter more than chasing a large unit count • Moving from WhatsApp deal groups towards a smaller, premium investor service • The sourcing mistakes that taught Ryan the importance of contracts, communication and aftercare • Why the team now verifies comparables, rents and serviced-accommodation figures before presenting a deal • Raising private finance and learning how to structure vendor-finance opportunities • The discipline required to balance business growth, fitness and personal life CONNECT WITH RYAN Instagram: @ryancullenproperty NETWORKING EVENTS First Wednesday of every month 📍 Aberdeen | Dundee | Edinburgh | Glasgow View upcoming speakers and book: 👉 https://scottishpropertypodcast.co.uk/events/ SPONSORED BY Prime Property Auctions — know someone selling a property? You could earn £1,500 just for making an introduction. John and Luis handle everything from the first call to the sale. Over £350,000 in referral fees paid out so far. 👉 https://primepropertyauctions.co.uk/ 🔔 Follow so you never miss an episode 💬 Would you have left a secure trade after one successful property flip? Let us know in the comments 👇

    He Made £30K on His First Property Flip — Then Went All In
  2. Nov 2

    Scotland’s New Landlord Laws: What Changed and What’s Coming Next

    Scotland’s rental rules have changed again—and landlords and letting agents need to understand both what is already in force and what is coming next. In this market update, Steven is joined by Lyndsay from Rent Locally and Property Investors Network to break down Awaab’s Law, new succession rights, wrongful-termination compensation and protections against discrimination when choosing tenants. They also look ahead to April 2027, including changes to joint tenancies, rent-officer decisions, pets and decorating. Lyndsay explains what the rules could mean in practice for HMO landlords, letting agents and tenants—and why responsible landlords may already be following many of the same principles. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS • What Awaab’s Law means when a tenant reports damp or mould • The response times discussed for inspecting a property and beginning remedial work • How to distinguish surface condensation from water ingress and structural damp • Lyndsay’s early experience across approximately 2,500 managed properties • Why the tenancy-succession qualifying period has fallen from 12 months to six • Compensation tenants may pursue following wrongful termination • What landlords should document if a property does not sell and is returned to the rental market • How councils are collecting data before deciding whether areas require rent controls • New protections for applicants with children or receiving benefits • Why letting agents should record affordability checks and tenant-selection decisions • The April 2027 changes allowing one joint tenant to leave without the other’s consent • Concerns about how the joint-tenancy rules could affect abuse survivors, HMOs and student lets • Why rent officers will no longer be able to set rent above the increase requested by the landlord • How requests to keep pets or decorate a rental property should be handled • Why additional disputes could create further pressure on the First-tier Tribunal • Whether increasing regulation is discouraging Lyndsay from investing CHAPTERS 00:00 - Scotland’s latest landlord-law update 01:10 - Awaab’s Law and damp-response times 02:39 - Condensation versus water ingress 05:32 - Succession rights fall from 12 months to six 06:49 - Wrongful termination and compensation 08:17 - Proving a genuine attempt to sell 10:18 - Rent controls and local-authority data 13:22 - New anti-discrimination protections 16:18 - Records letting agents need to keep 18:32 - Penalties for unlawful discrimination 18:58 - Joint-tenancy changes from April 2027 21:19 - Concerns for abuse survivors and HMOs 27:29 - Why rent-control rules are still being defined 30:00 - How rent officers assess market rent 32:15 - Staying ahead of legislative changes 36:04 - New limits on rent-officer decisions 38:15 - Pets and decorating requests 40:50 - Pressure on the First-tier Tribunal 44:46 - Do the new rules deter investors? 45:27 - Networking and the Scottish Property Investors Ball CONNECT WITH LYNDSAY Lyndsay on Instagram: @lyndsayyuill NETWORKING EVENTS First Wednesday of every month 📍 Aberdeen | Dundee | Edinburgh | Glasgow View upcoming speakers and book: 👉 https://scottishpropertypodcast.co.uk/events/ SPONSORED BY Prime Property Auctions — know someone selling a property? You could earn £1,500 just for making an introduction. John and Luis handle everything from the first call to the sale. Over £350,000 in referral fees paid out so far. 👉 https://primepropertyauctions.co.uk/ 🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode 👍 Like the video if you found it valuable 💬 Which change do you think will have the biggest impact on Scottish landlords? Let us know in the comments 👇

    Scotland’s New Landlord Laws: What Changed and What’s Coming Next
  3. Oct 26

    From Holes in His Shoes to Owning 400 Properties

    Alex Walker grew up in Govan with holes in his shoes and free-school-meal tickets. Determined to give his own children a different life, he worked in Glasgow’s fish market, built a business with three fish vans and later earned commission at Sky before accidentally becoming a landlord. What began with a Livingston flat he could not sell and a former council house bought for £9,000 has grown into a portfolio approaching 400 properties. After 26 years in the industry, Alex is still expanding—buying approximately 60–70 properties this year and growing his business by an average of 18.3% annually over the past five years. Alex shares how he survived the 2008 financial crisis with approximately £6 million of debt against a portfolio worth around £4 million, why he once considered selling everything for £2 million and why his plan to relocate to Dubai did not last. He also explains his current buy-to-let model, what he would do with £50,000 today and how new investors can avoid overpaying for sourced deals. CHAPTERS 00:00 - Meet Alex Walker 03:50 - Growing towards a 400-property portfolio 05:44 - How property networking changed the industry 11:35 - The setbacks behind Alex’s growth 13:34 - Surviving the 2008 financial crisis 16:17 - Using refinancing to scale the portfolio 18:38 - From holes in his shoes to property success 21:16 - Working in the fish market and running three vans 26:18 - Earning commission at Sky 27:56 - How Alex became a landlord by accident 29:16 - Scaling without an inheritance 31:43 - Moving from self-management to building a team 35:20 - Why Alex nearly sold his entire portfolio 40:40 - The plan to move to Dubai 44:03 - Why Dubai was not the life Alex expected 49:01 - Why Alex still backs traditional buy-to-let 49:28 - His ideal £140,000 three-bedroom investment 50:35 - £4,000 refurbishments and £300 monthly cash flow 52:08 - Why the portfolio remains around 70% LTV 58:01 - What Alex would do with £50,000 today 01:00:41 - What could make him stop investing 01:03:56 - Why Alex does not invest in Aberdeen 01:06:28 - Why he is buying in Edinburgh 01:07:32 - What makes a property sourcer worth paying 01:09:45 - Checking the numbers behind sourced deals 01:13:00 - Why Alex submits hundreds of offers 01:14:48 - The value of property networking NETWORKING EVENTS First Wednesday of every month 📍 Aberdeen | Dundee | Edinburgh | Glasgow View upcoming speakers and book your ticket: 👉 https://scottishpropertypodcast.co.uk... SPONSORED BY Prime Property Auctions — know someone selling a property? You could earn £1,500 just for making an introduction. John and Luis handle everything from the first call to the sale. Over £350,000 in referral fees paid out so far. 👉 https://primepropertyauctions.co.uk/ 💬 If you had £50,000 to begin investing today, would you follow Alex’s low-cost buy-to-let strategy? Let us know in the comments 👇

    From Holes in His Shoes to Owning 400 Properties
  4. Oct 19

    700 Property Deals — And the 10 That Didn’t Go to Plan

    What really happens when a property deal goes wrong—and who should take responsibility? Matt Morrison returns to the podcast after completing more than 700 property deals. He also revisits a Borders investment that did not go entirely to plan, sharing his perspective on how the strategy changed from buy-to-let to serviced accommodation, why the refurbishment costs increased and what everyone involved could have communicated more clearly. Using the original deal pack, emails and costings, Matt explains the difference between the initial £15,000 refurbishment estimate and the final cost of £26,260. He also discusses why the property achieved the £90,000 valuation stated in the original deal pack and the lessons he has taken from the experience. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS • How Matt progressed from around ten deals in his first year to more than 700 • Matt’s perspective on a Borders investment that did not go entirely to plan • How changing from buy-to-let to serviced accommodation affected the refurbishment • The emails showing a final refurbishment cost of £26,260 • Why clearer communication between the investor, sourcer and builder was needed • How the final valuation compared with the original deal pack • The ten deals Matt identified as having gone off plan • Damp, delays and a break-in at a £25,000 flat • Why a Home Report could have exposed non-traditional construction in Dundee • The Edinburgh flat where RAAC was discovered after purchase • How dry rot turned Matt’s £12,000 refurbishment into a £25,000–£30,000 project • Why Matt refunded £1,500 after a buyer’s solicitor failed to submit an offer • Whether property sourcers need stronger regulation • The title problem that left Matt with approximately £12,000 at risk • One flat being valued at £65,000, £45,000 and £70,000 within six weeks • Growing a portfolio towards 40 properties while managing more than 200 rental units • Why Matt wants to scale his marketing spend to approximately £20,000 per month • How he decides which deals to keep and which to offer investors CHAPTERS 00:00 - Meet Matt Morrison 00:38 - How Matt reached 700 property deals 01:50 - Revisiting a Borders property deal 06:20 - What the original deal pack showed 07:14 - Buy-to-let versus serviced-accommodation refurbishment 08:28 - The final £26,260 refurbishment cost 09:55 - Project management and the builder’s unexpected extras 12:00 - What went wrong with communication 16:18 - Why the £90,000 valuation matched the deal pack 20:03 - The ten deals that did not go to plan 21:06 - Damp, delays and a break-in at a £25,000 flat 22:11 - Why Home Reports matter on off-market deals 24:32 - A three-week refurbishment that took 16 weeks 25:41 - The Dundee flat only one lender would finance 29:14 - RAAC discovered after buying an Edinburgh flat 35:57 - Underestimated refurbishments and hidden dry rot 39:01 - Losing two Edinburgh deals and refunding the fee 42:22 - Should property sourcers be more regulated? 44:39 - The Westfield Court buyback 45:52 - Spending £12,000 before discovering a title problem 49:09 - One flat, three completely different valuations 51:37 - Matt’s business today55:01 - Building a 40-property portfolio 56:35 - Scaling marketing to £20,000 per month 59:30 - Why the same deal does not suit every investor 01:01:18 - Does Matt keep the best deals for himself? 01:02:55 - Matt’s advice for new property sourcers NETWORKING EVENTS View upcoming speakers and book your ticket: 👉https://scottishpropertypodcast.co.uk/events/ SPONSORED BY Prime Property Auctions — know someone selling a property? You could earn £1,500 just for making an introduction. 👉 https://primepropertyauctions.co.uk/ 💬 What due diligence would you insist on before buying through a property sourcer? Let us know in the comments 👇

    700 Property Deals — And the 10 That Didn’t Go to Plan
  5. Oct 12

    Buy-to-Let vs Serviced Accommodation — Which Is Really Riskier?

    Is serviced accommodation really a safer investment than a traditional buy-to-let—or does the potential for higher income come with significantly more risk? In this listener Q&A, Nick and Steven compare the predictability of vanilla buy-to-let with the fluctuating nightly rates, seasonal demand and contractor-led markets associated with serviced accommodation. They explain why buy-to-let may be “boring” but remains one of the least risky property strategies, while a serviced-accommodation deal can quickly struggle when local demand changes. They also answer questions about finding off-market deals, funding a first purchase, choosing quality assets over higher-yielding properties, living in a flip, starting a management business and raising private finance. The conversation then turns to property sourcing, who should take responsibility when a deal goes wrong and whether investors should scale or reduce portfolio debt. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS• How to find off-market property deals using paid marketing, social media and networking• Why Nick and Steven believe serviced accommodation carries more uncertainty than buy-to-let• The risks of relying on temporary contractor demand and unconfirmed local projects• Why ten quality assets may outperform 20 cheaper, higher-yielding properties• Bridging finance versus borrowing from private investors• Why a first Glasgow buy-to-let could require approximately £30,000–£40,000• When refurbishment drawings, building warrants and professional designs are needed• Whether live-in flips offering £50,000–£80,000 profit are still achievable• Starting a serviced-accommodation management company versus a letting agency• Why serviced accommodation can produce higher fees but requires a much faster response• Who should take responsibility when a sourced property deal goes wrong• The rent, refurbishment and end-value figures every investor should verify independently• Nick and Steven’s best and worst property deals• How to find private investors by consistently discussing what you are building• Whether to keep scaling or reduce debt across an established portfolio CHAPTERS00:00 - Nick and Steven answer listeners’ questions01:06 - How to find off-market property deals05:13 - Buy-to-let versus serviced accommodation risk07:50 - Ten quality assets or 20 cheaper properties?09:02 - Bridging finance versus private investment09:49 - Prime Property Auctions10:34 - How much money is needed for a first buy-to-let?13:38 - When refurbishment drawings are required15:14 - Are profitable live-in flips still achievable?17:01 - Buying serviced accommodation with a limited budget18:14 - Starting an SA management business or letting agency22:24 - Why serviced accommodation management is more demanding24:31 - Who is responsible when a sourced deal goes wrong?27:25 - Contracts, refunds and protecting a sourcer’s reputation29:17 - Rent, refurbishment and end-value estimates31:25 - The lack of regulation in property sourcing37:19 - Nick and Steven’s best and worst property deals40:23 - A property bought for £47,000 and sold for £95,00042:11 - How to find private investors43:16 - Should investors scale or reduce portfolio debt? NETWORKING EVENTSFirst Wednesday of every month📍 Aberdeen | Dundee | Edinburgh | GlasgowView upcoming speakers and book your ticket:👉 https://scottishpropertypodcast.co.uk/events/ SPONSORED BY Prime Property Auctions — know someone selling a property? You could earn £1,500 just for making an introduction. John and Luis handle everything from the first call to the sale. Over £350,000 in referral fees paid out so far. 👉 https://primepropertyauctions.co.uk/ 🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode👍 Like the video if you found it valuable💬 Which strategy would you choose: predictable buy-to-let income or the higher potential returns of serviced accommodation? Let us know in the comments 👇

    Buy-to-Let vs Serviced Accommodation — Which Is Really Riskier?
  6. Oct 5

    Could a Self-Employed Estate Agent Really Earn £100K a Year in Scotland?

    Could a self-employed estate agent build a six-figure business without sacrificing the personal service sellers expect? Fraser Kelly, founder of Kelly Residential, joins Nick and Steven to explain how he moved from corporate sales and property sourcing into estate agency. In five years, the business has grown to an 11-person team with five self-employed agents and six operations staff, while becoming one of the West of Scotland’s busiest offices for new instructions. Fraser breaks down the numbers behind the model, including monthly costs, commission splits and how agents can generate more than £100,000 in annual revenue. He also shares his view of the Scottish sales market, why some homes are being overvalued, the risks facing Glasgow city-centre flats and what it really takes to succeed in self-employed estate agency. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS • Why Fraser left corporate sales and moved from property sourcing into estate agency • How Kelly Residential grew to five self-employed agents and six operations staff • The difference between a personal estate agent and the traditional corporate model • Why overvaluing a home can leave it sitting on the market for months • A Clarkston bungalow that sold for £140,000 above its Home Report • Why new-build incentives make some nearly new homes harder to resell • How factor fees and cladding issues are affecting Glasgow city-centre flats • The skills Fraser believes matter more than previous estate-agency experience • How some agents are generating more than £100,000 a year in revenue • Why new agents should consider holding six months of savings • The £350 monthly cost and 50/50-to-75/25 commission structure • Why Kelly Residential’s average fee is around £2,200 • The discipline and long hours required to make self-employment work • How Google reviews, social media and AI are changing property marketing CHAPTERS 00:00 - Meet Fraser Kelly 00:46 - Viral AI property videos and online backlash 03:11 - Why US and Australian estate agents spend more on marketing 03:55 - From corporate sales to property sourcing 05:22 - Moving into self-employed estate agency 08:04 - Why the UK estate-agency model is different 10:33 - Prime Property Auctions 11:58 - Building Kelly Residential 15:05 - Personal service versus the corporate model 20:20 - Scaling without losing service 23:20 - What is happening in the Scottish sales market? 25:19 - Managing sellers’ Home Report expectations 31:07 - A bungalow sold £140,000 above its Home Report 34:10 - The properties struggling to sell 35:30 - Glasgow flats, factor fees and cladding 38:12 - What makes a successful self-employed estate agent? 42:06 - How the Kelly Residential model works 43:16 - How agents can generate £100,000 a year 45:20 - How much savings should a new agent have? 49:07 - Growing from a local office across Scotland 50:47 - Why Fraser is moving into lettings 55:12 - Monthly costs and commission splits 57:16 - Estate-agent fees and the race to the bottom 01:03:10 - The discipline needed to succeed 01:05:16 - Where to connect with Fraser CONNECT WITH FRASER Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FraserKellyResidential LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fraserkellyresidential/ NETWORKING EVENTS First Wednesday of every month 📍 Aberdeen | Dundee | Edinburgh | Glasgow View upcoming speakers and book your ticket: 👉https://scottishpropertypodcast.co.uk/events/ SPONSORED BY Prime Property Auctions — know someone selling a property? You could earn £1,500 just for making an introduction. John and Luis handle everything from the first call to the sale. Over £350,000 in referral fees paid out so far. 👉 https://primepropertyauctions.co.uk/ 🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode 👍 Like the video if you found it valuable 💬 Would you leave a salaried role to build your own estate-agency business? Let us know in the comments 👇

    Could a Self-Employed Estate Agent Really Earn £100K a Year in Scotland?
  7. Sep 28

    Awaab's Law Hits Scottish Landlords on 6th October: What You Must Do

    From 6 October 2026, private and social landlords across Scotland must follow strict new timescales when damp or mould is reported: investigate within 10 working days, provide written findings within three working days and begin any required repairs within five working days of the investigation. Paul Newing of PRN Water Services joins Nick and Steven to explain Scotland’s implementation of Awaab’s Law and what landlords and letting agents need to do to prepare. They discuss when the clock starts, who can carry out an investigation, what evidence should be retained and why landlords can no longer dismiss a complaint as “tenant lifestyle” without investigating it properly. They also examine condensation, penetrating damp and rising damp; ventilation and extractor-fan problems; four-week humidity monitoring; treating mould correctly; repeat complaints; and the complications caused by communal repairs and property factors. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS• The new duties affecting private and social landlords from 6 October 2026• The tragedy behind Awaab’s Law and why Scotland introduced its own regulations• The 10-working-day deadline for investigating reported damp and mould• Providing a written summary within three working days• Beginning required repairs within five working days of the investigation• Why landlords cannot immediately blame a tenant’s lifestyle• How normal living, cooking and drying clothes increase indoor moisture• Condensation versus penetrating damp and rising damp• What landlords should check with windows, vents and extractor fans• Using four weeks of humidity and dew-point data to establish the cause• Why photographs, emails, reports and a clear paper trail are essential• What “commencing repairs” means when parts or contractors are unavailable• How to clean, treat and redecorate mould-affected areas properly• When recurring problems may not require a complete new investigation• How communal roofs, gutters and factors complicate landlord compliance CONNECT WITH PAULPaul Newing — Managing Director, PRN Water ServicesWebsite: https://www.prnwaterservices.com/ OFFICIAL GUIDANCEScottish Government: https://www.gov.scot/policies/private-renting/housing-standards/ NETWORKING EVENTSFirst Wednesday of every month📍 Aberdeen | Dundee | Edinburgh | GlasgowView upcoming speakers and book your ticket:👉 https://scottishpropertypodcast.co.uk/events/ SPONSORED BY Prime Property Auctions — know someone selling a property? You could earn £1,500 just for making an introduction. John and Luis handle everything from the first call to the sale. Over £350,000 in referral fees paid out so far. 👉 https://primepropertyauctions.co.uk/ 🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode👍 Like the video if you found it valuable💬 Are Scottish landlords ready to meet these new damp and mould deadlines? Let us know in the comments 👇 This episode is for general information only and does not constitute legal advice.

    Awaab's Law Hits Scottish Landlords on 6th October: What You Must Do
  8. Sep 21

    From Sleeping on Building Sites to Owning 30+ Properties

    Jordan Kynoch started investing in property at just 23, with no money, no experience and a long-term goal: to build enough freedom to be fully present when he eventually became a father. Thirteen years later, Jordan owns more than 30 properties across Scotland and Liverpool. The journey involved countless hours on the road, sleeping on building-site floors and using private investment to fund every property purchase—but that hard work now allows him to spend almost every day with his new son. In this episode, Jordan shares the numbers behind his portfolio purchases and property flips, including a six-title deal bought for £192,500 and a derelict house that generated approximately £80,000 in pre-tax profit. He also explains why he is selling some Liverpool HMOs, how he manages projects across different locations and why straightforward buy-to-lets still form the foundation of his portfolio. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS• Starting in property at 23 with no money or experience• Why becoming a present father was one of Jordan’s original goals• The years spent travelling and sleeping on building-site floors• Building a portfolio of more than 30 properties across Scotland and Liverpool• Why Article 4 restrictions increased the value of his existing Liverpool HMOs• The reasoning behind selling profitable HMOs and reinvesting the capital elsewhere• Why Jordan still believes straightforward buy-to-lets work• Finding off-market opportunities through owners, neighbours and existing contacts• Buying six titles in Forfar for £192,500 after negotiating almost £50,000 off the asking price• Spending approximately £70,000 on the refurbishment and producing around £1,800 in monthly cash flow• How changing the layouts added bedrooms and increased the value of the flats• Managing projects remotely using trusted building teams in each investment area• The derelict Errol house bought for £153,000 and refurbished for approximately £70,000• Why Jordan marketed the property immediately before Christmas despite agents advising him to wait• Making approximately £80,000 in pre-tax profit from the six-month project• How Jordan has funded every property purchase using private investors• Why he repays investors at the end of each project instead of continually rolling their money forward• Turning investors away when their requested return makes the deal unworkable• Why smaller, repeatable projects can produce better results than stressful large developments• Building The Style & Staging Co as an additional income stream• Using property staging to help developers, estate agents and homeowners sell• How becoming a father changed Jordan’s priorities and attitude towards business• His plans to acquire more portfolios and complete one or two property flips each year CONNECT WITH JORDANInstagram: @the_style_and_staging_co NETWORKING EVENTSFirst Wednesday of every month📍 Aberdeen | Dundee | Edinburgh | GlasgowView upcoming speakers and book your ticket:👉 https://scottishpropertypodcast.co.uk/events/ SPONSORED BY Prime Property Auctions — know someone selling a property? You could earn £1,500 just for making an introduction. John and Luis handle everything from the first call to the sale. Over £350,000 in referral fees paid out so far. 👉 https://primepropertyauctions.co.uk/ 🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode👍 Like the video if you found it valuable💬 How much would you sacrifice today to create greater freedom for your family in the future? Let us know in the comments 👇

    From Sleeping on Building Sites to Owning 30+ Properties

About

A weekly podcast focused on keeping property investors informed and educated on the Scottish property market. Co-hosts Nick Ponty and Steven Clark share their own experiences, answer questions and talk to experts in the industry.

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