Pricing College Podcast

Joanna Wells and Aidan Campbell

Get a free education when you attend Pricing College. Learn everything about pricing, value management, revenue management and how to build a pricing career. Join Joanna Wells and Aidan Campbell for entertaining and informative discussion every week.

  1. Episode #0129 - What Bunnings Teaches Us About Pricing Power

    1d ago

    Episode #0129 - What Bunnings Teaches Us About Pricing Power

    What does true pricing power look like when dominant buyers consolidate, overseas competitors slash prices, and your market options shrink all at once? In this episode of the Pricing College Podcast, we explore the deep strategic lessons concerning B2B pricing power following Wesfarmers' announcement that Blackwoods is moving under the Bunnings umbrella. When major channels merge, the balance of power shifts dramatically. For suppliers, this means you aren't just losing a sale; you are losing an independent buyer and finding yourself fighting for dwindling shelf space against a consolidated giant. We unpack the three structural pressures squeezing profit margins right now: Buyer Power & Channel Concentration (The reality of sudden tenders and lost accounts) The Overseas Under-Cut (How supply chains built without your overheads erode your premium) A Contracting Independent Network (The quiet disappearance of distributors and trade accounts) If your only leverage in a consolidated market is a low price, your brand's inherent pricing power has already vanished. Discover how to transition from being treated as mere expendable inventory to building a precise, quantified commercial value position that buyers are forced to respect. #pricingcollegepodcast #taylorwellspricing #PricingPower #Bunnings #BusinessStrategy #B2BMarketing #SupplyChain #ChannelConsolidation #ValueProposition #AustralianBusiness #MarginProtection

    11 min
  2. Episode #0127 - Pricing Transformation Series Part 4: Why AI Pricing Can Accelerate Margin Leakage

    May 25

    Episode #0127 - Pricing Transformation Series Part 4: Why AI Pricing Can Accelerate Margin Leakage

    TIME STAMP NOTES: [00:00] Introduction: Why AI Pricing Could Become a Major Commercial Risk [01:40]  Why AI Cannot Fix Broken Pricing Foundations [02:56] The Industrial Business Case Study and Hidden Margin Leakage [05:27] How AI Automates Pricing Dysfunction at Scale [07:30] Why AI Pricing Is a Governance and Transformation Challenge [09:44] Conclusion: The False Confidence AI Creates Inside Businesses   AI pricing is being positioned as the solution to margin pressure, discount leakage, pricing inconsistency, and commercial complexity. But what happens when businesses automate pricing structures they never properly fixed in the first place? In this episode of the Pricing College Podcast, Joanna Wells explores why AI pricing may become one of the biggest hidden commercial risks facing businesses today. From weak governance and unmanaged discounting to pricing overrides, rebates, and fragmented pricing logic, many organisations may be scaling dysfunction rather than solving it. Using a real industrial business case study, this discussion explores: • Why AI cannot fix broken pricing foundations • How hidden margin leakage becomes embedded inside commercial behaviour • Why teams — not systems — are often holding pricing together manually • How AI can accelerate pricing inconsistency and margin erosion at scale • Why pricing transformation is a governance and commercial capability challenge, not just a technology project • The growing importance of explainable, transparent pricing If your business is exploring AI pricing, this conversation may change the questions leadership teams should be asking before implementation.

    10 min
  3. Episode #0125 - Pricing Transformation Series Part 3: The Hidden Pricing Problem Inside Most B2B Businesses

    May 11

    Episode #0125 - Pricing Transformation Series Part 3: The Hidden Pricing Problem Inside Most B2B Businesses

    This episode of the Pricing Transformation series explores the "hidden" complexity that often undermines B2B pricing strategies. Using the recent increase in Australia Post fuel surcharges as a real-world anchor, Joanna Wells discusses how small, reactive commercial decisions—like freight recovery fees and tactical discounts—eventually create an unmanageable system. Key Takeaways The "Headline Rate" Illusion: Many B2B businesses believe they have fixed pricing, but "stable headline rates" often mask a chaotic reality of off-matrix deals and manual adjustments. Industrial Plumbing Metaphor: Pricing systems are compared to old plumbing, where layers of temporary fixes and "patched-in" rules eventually make it impossible to understand the actual price flow. The Trust Deficit: Complexity doesn't just hurt margins; it erodes trust. When customers (and employees) can no longer understand the logic behind a price, they perceive it as unfair or opportunistic. Control vs. Structure: The real challenge for B2B leaders isn't choosing between "fixed" or "dynamic" pricing, but rather regaining control over a system that has become "unofficially" dynamic and operationally buried. Episode Chapters [01:03] The Illusion of Price Stability: Why modern B2B pricing is often much more complex than the contract suggests. [01:29] The Complexity Beneath the Surface: A look at the "moving parts" like rebates and freight adjustments that distort margins. [03:17] The "Industrial Plumbing" of Pricing: How pricing structures become cluttered and inefficient over time. [04:52] Operational Reality vs. The Pricing Model: The gap between the intended pricing strategy and actual team behavior. [06:14] The Human Side: Trust and Fairness: Why perceived fairness is a critical component of a successful pricing strategy. [07:22] The Real Debate: Control and Visibility: Shifting the focus from pricing models to operational transparency. Does the idea that your business might be running an "unofficial" dynamic pricing system resonate with what you're seeing in your daily operations?

    9 min
  4. Episode #0123 - Pricing Transformation Series Part 2: Why Your Pricing Isn't Working — And It's Not Just Because of Your Sales or Pricing Teams

    Apr 24

    Episode #0123 - Pricing Transformation Series Part 2: Why Your Pricing Isn't Working — And It's Not Just Because of Your Sales or Pricing Teams

    Times-stamp Notes: [00:00] Introduction to developing pricing strategies [00:32] Developing pricing strategies amid rising complexity and cost pressures [01:34] Challenges in developing pricing strategies within current systems [03:57] Structural issues in developing pricing strategies [05:48] Example of misalignment when developing pricing strategies [08:47] Improving and developing pricing strategies through better design [10:18] Conclusion: Key takeaways on developing pricing strategies   00:00 Been a big week in Australia and in the world. Pricing is back in the spotlight. And in the news we're reading that major retailers are under scrutiny again for how they're applying discounts. The ACCC are questioning retailers for price transparency. And at the same time, many businesses are dealing with rising input costs driven by fuel, supply chain pressure and global instability fundamentally created by the war we find ourselves in. 00:32 Now, what this highlights to me is something deeper. Pricing is becoming harder and more complex, not easier, unfortunately. And that's not just a consumer issue. I'm seeing this same thing across B2B and trade businesses: inconsistent pricing, heavy discounting, growing pressure to justify decisions. And yet more reliance on short-term fixes. Things like surcharges and minimum order thresholds and now the new trend, just to recover costs. 01:13 Unfortunately, though, many are dropping strategic pricing in favour of these short-term fixes because they feel this will recover margin quicker, better, faster, etc. Which really does beg the question: Is your pricing system actually working for you or against you? 01:34 Hello and welcome to Pricing College podcast. My name is Joanna Wells and I'm the founder and director of Taylor Wells Advisory. And we help businesses improve margin through better pricing strategy. Now, this episode is going to be part of a series on pricing transformation. And the reason being is because many Australian B2B and trade businesses right now are under pressure. 02:04 Pricing just isn't under control and it's at a turning point. We've got legacy models that are struggling to keep up with cost changes, commercial teams who are relying more and more on exceptions to get deals done. And leaders who are asking for more control, more margin and more consistency and often at the same time and teams that can't deliver that. And that creates a huge disconnect. The pricing system says one thing but the business and the team and the culture behaves quite differently. So this series is about unpacking that gap. Not just what's going wrong but what's actually needs to change to make this better for everyone. 02:53 And we'll start with a common assumption: Is pricing isn't working, it must be because of the sales team or the pricing team. The default response is usually: "Let's tighten up the rules and then we'll see things improve quickly." More controls, more approvals, stricter compliance. But if your pricing only works when everyone behaves perfectly, is it really a strong model? 03:57 I see this all the time. A business will request and then roll out a new and improved pricing structure. It's got more refined segmentation, tighter discount bands to ensure margin recovery, clearer rules for the teams to follow. Everything's really well documented. And for a few months it looks really, really good. But then things start slowing down, momentum sort of dies out, bit underwhelming. Exceptions start to creep back in, sales teams start pushing the boundaries again and the system gets worked around yet again and you see increasing pricing records and configurations and complexity. New complexity starts to build upon old. Not because sales and pricing teams are trying to be difficult, no, not at all. It's because the model that they're working with doesn't actually reflect how the business actually sells and customers actually buy from you. This is the key shift. A lot of pricing problems are not merely execution issues. They're actually design structural issues. 04:45 Now, I just want to be clear about this: Sometimes, capability, team structure, organisational design and talent are a part of the issue. They are. And I'll look, I'll come back to that in the next episode. But in many cases, the bigger problem sits in the model itself. 05:09 At this point, it's usually the poor old sales team that gets the blame. "Oh, they're discounting too much, they don't follow process, they're going back to what they know, they're not following the rules. They're leaving margin on the table. They shouldn't have given away that deal at that price. They don't know how to sell on value." But take a look closer. Sales aren't ignoring pricing or the pricing system that you're trying to create, and you've spent a lot of money on. They're trying to make it work. 05:48 Let me give you an example. Okay, so there was this B2B business that I worked for. It was a B2B industrial business, and they were halfway through a business transformation, and they had already engaged with pricing consultants, but had a few questions and so brought me in just to get a third-party objective view about the work they had invested in with this consultancy. And fundamentally, they were concerned because they had their running trials on the new price structure, and they were finding that sales, they just weren't using it. And rather than just not using it, they they were the kept pushing for exceptions and complaining that they needed to do, you know, come up with better pricing themselves, that the system wasn't giving them what they needed. Obviously, you know, leadership backed the pricing model because they'd invested in it and, you know, the diagnostics and all the prototypes and blueprints that the consultants had shared with them seemed to fit with their objectives for wanting more EBITDA. 06:58 However, you know, they were perplexed: well, what's happening? Deals obviously still got done, but what we found was that they got done through workarounds and outside of the system. Fundamentally, after a month or so of reviewing everything, you know, logically, the price structure looked okay, but the model itself didn't match how customers were actually buying from this business. 07:26 And we see this quite a bit. When the business doesn't listen to the team, the sales team, the pricing team, the customers, exceptions increase, trust in the pricing system drops, and pricing becomes much harder to explain and control. When pricing doesn't reflect commercial reality, teams will find a way around it. And over time, inconsistency increases, margin becomes less predictable, and pricing becomes much harder to defend. 08:06 So why isn't your pricing working? Why is pricing so complex? Why is pricing so difficult? It's not because your sales team or your pricing team isn't capable or competent enough, or your sales team and pricing teams are out of control and doing their own thing. It's because your pricing structure was built for a way of selling that no longer exists. And trying to fix it by tightening rules just makes the gap more obvious and teams' lives so much more difficult. 08:47 Are you asking your team to follow a pricing model or to work around one? If pricing relies on constant exceptions, it's not a control issue. It's actually a design signal. You don't fix pricing by adding more rules. You fix it by making it usable, practical, realistic. That means simplifying structures, aligning to how deals actually happen and designing flexibility properly in your system. Not leaving it to exceptions or ignoring the problem. 09:30 This is where pricing transformation starts. It doesn't start with new systems or more complexity, but with a fundamental shift and focus on the core problem and how business actually operates. Designing a pricing model that reflects how the business actually operates and can be used consistently by the teams. Why? Because we want to make people's lives easier. We want to enable our customers to understand the value that we offer, to perceive value correctly. Where structure provides clarity, flexibility is intentional, and outcomes are really easy to explain. 10:18 So if your pricing team feels difficult, onerous, broken, complex... before you blame the sales team or point fingers at the pricing team, ask yourself this: Is our pricing model helping our sales team to sell or is it just getting in the way? Because in most cases, the problem isn't the sales or the pricing team, it's the model that they've been given to work with. 10:50 And in the next episode, I'm going to tackle the other side of this. Because sometimes it is the pricing team, or the sales team or how the functions have been set up. And that's really where pricing transformation gets real. Not in theory, not in systems, but in the choices we make about how pricing gets designed, accountability and ownership. Who owns and drives pricing? How do we support our teams to be the best that they can be? And how do businesses, we, how do we respond to what's actually happening in the market? Do we bury our heads in the sand? Do we react? Do we go gung-ho? Do we listen or do we blame? Because pricing isn't just a number, it's how your business shows up commercially every single day. 11:46 And right now, that's exactly what's under pressure. Thank you for listening. I'm Joanna Wells, I'm the founder and director of Taylor Wells Advisory. And we help businesses improve margin through better pricing strategy.

    12 min
  5. Episode #0122 - Cost Pass Through in Volatile Markets: What CEOs Need to Do Now

    Mar 26

    Episode #0122 - Cost Pass Through in Volatile Markets: What CEOs Need to Do Now

    TIME-STAMP NOTES: [00:00] Introduction: CEOs Under Cost Pass Through Pressure [01:44] Cost Pass Through in Highly Volatile Markets [04:04] Cost Pass Through Must Be Disciplined, Not Reactive [08:20] Cost Pass Through Without Losing Customers [10:48] Conclusion: Pricing Is a Team Effort   [00:00] Across Australia this week, fuel prices have jumped up sharply again. In Sydney and Melbourne, for instance, we've seen increases of 30 to 50 cents per litre in just a few days. And outside the capitals, the gap is even wider. In regional areas, for instance, prices are like two to six cents higher on average, and in some remote locations, 30 to 50 cents more again. [00:30] And it's not just price; we're now seeing supply disruption on a huge scale. Shipments are delayed; stations are running low in some areas. I drove past a station in the metro area; it was closed, pumps empty. This isn't a normal price cycle; it's a supply shock. And for many businesses in Australia, this isn't just a headline story; it's a real cost that's hitting the P&L immediately. But most companies are still pricing like the market is stable. Many are just still debating whether they should do something about this additional cost. And that gap, that gap right there, is where margin is being lost. [01:21] Hello and welcome. I'm Joanna Wells, founder of Taylor Wells Advisory, and we focus on helping organisations improve margin through better pricing strategy. Now, in today's session, this isn't going to be about long-term strategy. No, it's going to be about what CEOs need to do this week. [01:44] Now, today, we've learned that Iran has refused the 15-point ceasefire plan from the US. This has created even more instability in the global stock markets, and we're seeing global disruption flowing directly across the world, and that's impacting Australian businesses as well. Now the conflict in the Middle East has disrupted key shipping routes, including the Strait of Hormuz, which carries a significant portion of the world's fuel. And that's flowing through quickly; fuel prices are rising, shipments are being delayed or redirected, and Australia is particularly exposed. We import most of our refined fuel, and many businesses are being bought in US dollars and euros. So even when nothing changes operationally, costs still move on, and they're not moving gradually; they're moving in steps, and faster than most pricing processes can respond. [02:46] But here's what's really interesting: most leadership teams in Australia are still asking the same question: "What price increase should we take?" But is that the right question to ask in this environment? I think it's the wrong question. The real issue here isn't the price increase itself; it's how that decision is being made. In many businesses, cost structures aren't current, FX isn't fully reflected in cost structures, commodities aren't tracked closely or even at all, and decisions are based on fundamentally internal costs and historical data. In some cases, cost inputs are seven to nine months old before a business takes an increase. But as we already know, in that time, costs have already moved on, especially today. So what happens? The increase is set too low, and it's implemented way too late. So even when prices go up, margin doesn't recover. [04:04] I'm seeing that right now in the waste industry. One of our clients operates a high-capex business: large fleet, high fuel exposure, and tight margins. As fuel prices have moved recently, their costs have shifted almost day by day, and their pricing really wasn't set up to move that way. It was set up for more stable markets. So what's happening now? They're absorbing more of that cost increase. At first, it didn't seem to be a big issue; it looked manageable. People thought, "Oh well, you know, the crisis will end, things will change, there will be peace." But that's not happening. So what's happening financially? Costs are compounding, margin's declining, and now at an accelerated rate. And the issue really isn't margin anymore; it's become a question of sustainability. And this is the shift most companies haven't made. They are still pricing on a schedule. They still think they are in a stable market. They are not. There are annual reviews, annual reviews! When costs are increasing this quickly: Planned increases, long lead times, but costs are no longer moving on a schedule like this. They're moving continuously, day by day. And most B2B businesses still adjust pricing annually, or now I'm hearing maybe we'll do it twice a year, as if that's a big breakthrough. Well, let's think about this: your costs are moving monthly, weekly, and I've just explained daily when it comes to fuel. So there's a gap; costs are moving quickly, prices are moving slowly, and that gap is where your margin is fundamentally disappearing. [05:58] So here's the question for leaders: Are you setting prices based on how the market used to move or how it's moving right now? And how quickly can you respond when things change? [06:15] In many businesses today, pricing decisions are very, very slow. Cost inputs are fundamentally outdated, and teams really are firefighting and reacting after the fact rather than anticipating and leading on the front foot. And that creates a compounding effect. You underestimate the increase, you delay the timing, and what happens? Well, costs continue to move, and so margins erode without a single obvious decision. [06:54] So what should CEOs do this week? Let me make this practical and simple. From what I've seen, the companies managing this well right now, today, are doing things differently from most other businesses. They're not debating fuel every time it moves; they've already built it into pricing, often as a separate line item linked to an index with clear rules. So when fuel moves, pricing moves. They're not relying on historical cost data alone; they're tracking what's happening now by commodities, FX, and key inputs. And in some cases, they're using forward views. They are not smoothing increases across the product portfolio; they're being much more precise. They're not relying on legacy contracts; they've built in new clauses, they've built new mechanisms that allow pricing to move. They're preparing customers early and explaining the rules before the outcome. But it's not as simple as just passing everything through. I've seen businesses try that and lose volume and very, very quickly. So the goal isn't just pass-through; it's controlled pass-through. [08:20] I was speaking with a CFO recently who said, "Oh, we could have achieved the same result that you did with a simple 5% blanket increase."But that's not what we did when we helped this client. We actually segmented the increase by customer, by product, by channel, by cost exposure. And what happened? We recovered margin safely. Passing through costs is easy, well, if you use a blanket cost increase approach. But passing them through across hundreds of thousands of SKUs, and without losing customers, is the real skill. [09:09] In unstable markets, margin is lost fundamentally in the gap between cost movement, pricing decisions, and time. This isn't about reacting to global events; it's about recognising that the market has changed, and pricing needs to change with it. In stable markets, pricing is planned, but right now, pricing needs to be planned but also managed in real-time. There are two very significant outcomes from this disruption at the moment: either your pricing keeps up with your costs, or your margin funds the difference. So if there's one thing to do right now, bring your cost position forward today if you can. Because if you don't, you'll be making pricing decisions based on costs that no longer exist. And if you forward-project two weeks, if this continues, you'll set prices too low, you'll move too late, and you'll absorb the difference. And once that margin is gone, you just don't get it back. And if your business runs on slower cycles, long lead times, legacy pricing schedules, annual contracts, etc., that risk is even higher. Because by the time your pricing moves, your costs will have already moved again. You don't just absorb one increase; you absorb multiple. That's how margin is lost, slowly at first, and then all at once. [10:48] If this episode was useful, feel free to share it with someone in your team who's dealing with these types of challenges right now. Pricing decisions don't sit in one function; they sit across the business. And pricing teams and whoever's dealing with these types of pricing challenges need all the help they can get. If you or they would like more insights, help and advice, feel free to follow along or connect with me. Thank you very much for listening. I'm Joanna Wells, founder of Taylor Wells Advisory, and I look forward to seeing you in the next episode. Goodbye.

    11 min

About

Get a free education when you attend Pricing College. Learn everything about pricing, value management, revenue management and how to build a pricing career. Join Joanna Wells and Aidan Campbell for entertaining and informative discussion every week.