Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Michael Liebreich, Bryony Worthington

Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Informative, inspiring and fun!

  1. Why Flexible Power Is Suddenly So Valuable | Ep259: Håkan Agnevall

    2d ago

    Why Flexible Power Is Suddenly So Valuable | Ep259: Håkan Agnevall

    As electricity demand rises and renewable generation continues to expand, the same question keeps arising: how do we keep power systems reliable, affordable and resilient? This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Håkan Agnevall, CEO of Wärtsilä, to discuss the changing role of flexible generation in modern electricity systems, the growing importance of grid stability, and why balancing technologies will be critical as renewables become an ever-larger share of the global energy mix. They explore how rapidly growing electricity demand, including from data centres, is reshaping investment decisions, why flexible gas generation may play an important transitional role, and how batteries, renewables and thermal assets can work together to build a more resilient power system. The conversation also examines the future of shipping decarbonisation following delays to the International Maritime Organisation’s proposed global carbon-pricing mechanism, the importance of fuel flexibility for vessel owners, and how digital technologies and AI are improving efficiency across industry. Håkan and Michael cover a wide variety of topics, including: Why flexible generation remains essential in renewable-heavy grids How growing electricity demand is changing energy infrastructure planning The role of gas engines, batteries and storage in maintaining grid stability What data centres mean for future power systems Shipping decarbonisation and the IMO's delayed carbon-pricing vote Fuel flexibility and efficiency in maritime transport How industrial companies are using AI to improve performance and reliability Energy security, competitiveness and the changing geopolitical landscape Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Wärtsilä's website: https://www.wartsila.com/ Episode 208 with Anders Lindberg, Wärtsilä's head of energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtsCCJ4o1WA Episode 229 with Professor Tristan Smith of UCL, on the delayed IMO agreement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUCidkeDto Episode 235 with Rob Dunn, inside the Start Campus data centre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w

    1h 1m
  2. Can Anyone Catch China's Clean Tech Lead? Ep258: Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich

    May 20

    Can Anyone Catch China's Clean Tech Lead? Ep258: Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich

    In this special episode of Cleaning Up from San Francisco Climate Week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack the geopolitical shocks reshaping the global energy transition. From escalating tensions in the Gulf and their impact on oil and LNG markets, to China’s accelerating electrification revolution, the conversation explores how energy security, industrial strategy and climate ambition are colliding in real time. Bryony and Michael debate whether the West can realistically compete with China’s manufacturing dominance, why electrification is becoming the defining energy strategy across Europe and Asia, and whether hydrogen has any meaningful role left to play. They also examine California’s energy paradox, the future of AI-driven electricity demand, and whether nuclear power can help meet the coming compute boom. Along the way, they tackle the politics of trade, the economics of resilience, the rise of clean tech nationalism, and the uncomfortable societal questions posed by artificial intelligence and automation. This episode covers: The energy implications of instability in the Middle East Why electrification is accelerating globally China’s EV and battery dominance The future of LNG, coal and renewables in Asia  Why Michael thinks hydrogen is dead policy walking AI, data centres and the coming electricity crunch California’s clean energy transformation Whether nuclear power can support the AI revolution Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Absolutely Electrifying - Ep158: Saul Griffith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=238XVTF4ang How Nvidia Made Chips 100,000x More Efficient | Ep215: Josh Parker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0KtA9WKZ3U The Future of Clean Tech Under Trump — Ep198: Jigar Shah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOaF-qQ_TU

    55 min
  3. India’s Solar Revolution Is Bringing Cheap Energy To Millions | Ep257: Harish Hande

    May 13

    India’s Solar Revolution Is Bringing Cheap Energy To Millions | Ep257: Harish Hande

    The energy system is not about supply and exports and generation and distribution. It's about how we use energy in our daily lives and workplaces. The so-called energy trilemma, affordability versus reliability versus environmental performance looks very theoretical in the boardrooms of an NGO or a consulting company. But it's not theoretical at all for someone struggling to run their life, do their job and pay their bills. What we need is a system focused on usage, not on supply. Joining Michael on Cleaning Up this week is Harish Hande, a Bangalore-based social entrepreneur, co-founder and CEO of the Selco Foundation, which focuses on decentralized solar energy solutions for underserved communities. A graduate of IIT Kharagpur with a master’s and PhD in energy engineering from the University of Massachusetts, Harish has over three decades of grassroots experience using sustainable energy to drive poverty reduction in rural India. In 2011, he received the Ramon Magsaysay Award for his efforts to make solar power accessible and affordable for the poor through innovative, livelihood‑linked energy services. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: The Selco Foundation: https://selcofoundation.org/ Impact Investing Has it Backward: https://nextbillion.net/impact-investing-backward-time-prioritize-needs-social-enterprises-not-just-investors/ How Solar is Saving 100s of Lives in Sierra Leone — Ep204: Project Bo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-5QjSfy2SM A Life of Energy Access and Inclusion - Ep20: Richenda Van Leeuwen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tyk1xcf7nQ What India Gets Right About The Energy Transition | Ep226: Dr Arunabha Ghosh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMrn-JewoCo

    1h 6m
  4. Why Are We Electrifying So Slowly? The Electrification Staircase | Ep256: Adrian Hiel, Silvia Madeddu, William Drake & Thomas Butler

    May 6

    Why Are We Electrifying So Slowly? The Electrification Staircase | Ep256: Adrian Hiel, Silvia Madeddu, William Drake & Thomas Butler

    Every single scenario for the future that looks at a cleaner energy system has electrification growing to 60, 70, 80% or more, and yet we don't make rapid progress. Why? One of the reasons we don't make progress lies in narratives and culture wars. We hear about heat pumps that don't work, we hear about electric vehicles that don't work, we hear that electrification can't work for high temperature heat and so on, and then we hear a narrative that there is a false solution that will work much better: hydrogen.  So how do we electrify things faster? By focussing on what we can do right now, commercially at scale, and removing the barriers that slow those sectors down.  Presenting the Electrification Staircase, a tool that breaks down the “Electrify Everything” argument into what can be achieved now, what will be in the near future, and what needs more support to come into being by the middle of the century.  This week on Cleaning Up, Michael is joined by the authors of the Electrification Staircase to explore their thinking behind it, how it can be used, and what can be done to get electrification moving even faster.  The authors are Adrian Hiel, Director of the Electrification Alliance, Silvia Madeddu, Solutions Architect at Schneider Electric, William Drake, analyst at Liebreich Associates and Thomas Butler, associate at the Regulatory Assistance Project, as well as Michael Liebreich.  Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: The Electrification Staircase: https://www.watts-next.eu/app/uploads/07b50d4f71ed1ece03c6cbac-electrification-staircase.png  The Electrification Staircase Appendix: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qfn6xR7g7dXSZTlfkxcpOa8Pp0WKj7BW/view?usp=sharing The Electrification Alliance: https://electrification-alliance.eu/ Regulatory Assistance Project: https://www.raponline.org/ Sylvia Madeddu’s Past appearance on Cleanig Up: https://perspectives.se.com/youtube-sustainability-business-schneider-electric/ep103-dr-silvia-madeddu-industrial-heat-is-electrifying

    56 min
  5. Europe Needs Clean Tech More Than Ever | Ep 255: Thomas Pellerin-Carlin

    Apr 29

    Europe Needs Clean Tech More Than Ever | Ep 255: Thomas Pellerin-Carlin

    This week Cleaning Up is back in Brussels, with a deep dive into European energy policy as the continent grapples with the reality of ambitious climate targets, very high energy prices and the vulnerabilities of first Russia's attack on Ukraine, and Israel and the US's recent attack on Iran.  Michael Liebreich sits down with a rising star of the European Parliament, Thomas Pellerin-Carlin, for a timely conversation at the intersection of energy, geopolitics, and climate strategy. What begins as a discussion on EU energy policy quickly broadens into a much bigger conversation: a blueprint for Europe’s survival in a volatile world. Thomas argues that the war in Ukraine is not just about territory, it’s about Europe’s future. And one of the main battlefields? Energy. The key to peace, he says, lies in breaking Russia’s ability to turn oil and gas into power, through a global transition to clean energy. From the inner workings of EU policymaking to the struggle between fossil fuel interests and the Green Deal, this episode dives into: Why Europe must electrify for its own peace and security The political battles shaping the future of EVs, nuclear, and renewables Whether Europe can compete with China and the U.S. in clean tech The concept of an “electro-democracy” alliance Why energy independence may be the only path to freedom Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links and more: Thomas’ Bio: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/256903/THOMAS_PELLERIN-CARLIN/home The 130 Trillion-Dollar Man - Ep84: Mark Carney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtA5ufMzKAU The Dane who Harnessed the Wind - Ep139: Henrik Stiesdal: https://youtu.be/7rjuZ_aCsFQ

    1h 16m
  6. The Era Of Fossil Fuel Unreliability Has Begun | Ep 254: Jennifer Granholm

    Apr 22

    The Era Of Fossil Fuel Unreliability Has Begun | Ep 254: Jennifer Granholm

    What happens when global energy supply chains can no longer be trusted? Has the U.S. given up its edge in the clean energy race to China? And can politics keep up with the speed of the energy transition and the rise of AI? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with former U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm for a wide-ranging conversation on the future of global energy, politics, and clean technology. They explore how geopolitical tensions, from disruptions in the Strait of Hormuz to shifting alliances, are reshaping global energy markets and accelerating the move away from fossil fuels. Granholm offers an insider’s perspective on the impact of U.S. policy decisions under both Joe Biden and Donald Trump, including the rise, and partial dismantling, of the Inflation Reduction Act and what that means for US clean energy investment, manufacturing, and competitiveness. The discussion dives into the growing divide between ‘petrostate; U.S. and ‘electrostate’ China, the global race for dominance in electric vehicles and battery storage (with companies like BYD leading the charge), and the unintended consequences of tariffs and industrial policy. Looking ahead, Granholm reflects on lessons learned from her time in office, what a future Democratic administration might do differently, and the political and economic challenges shaping the road to the next presidential election 2028: inflation, energy affordability, and the disruptive impact of AI on jobs. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links and more: What Democrats Can Learn From the Trump Energy Playbook: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-26/jennifer-granholm-democrats-should-use-trump-playbook-for-climate For Real Energy Dominance, We Need the IRA: https://heatmap.news/ideas/energy-dominance-ira-granholm Can Data Centres Play Nice With The Grid? Varun Sivaram & Steve Smith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kSrgRZUCwE ⁠The Future of Clean Tech Under Trump — Ep198: Jigar Shah: https://youtu.be/PCOaF-qQ_TU Why Renewables Are Booming Despite the Politics | Ep245: Miguel Stilwell d'Andrade: https://youtu.be/5oL_XlZ8k_M How the US Lost The Race for Clean Energy | Ep 219: Ethan Zindler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQLkLXt9Uek

    46 min
  7. The Mother of All Energy Crises | Ep253: Fatih Birol

    Apr 15

    The Mother of All Energy Crises | Ep253: Fatih Birol

    The news agenda this year has been entirely dominated by energy related stories, whether it's the war in Europe being pursued by Russia — formerly Europe's most significant energy provider — the U.S. capturing the head of state of Venezuela — which has some of the biggest oil reserves in the world — or the ongoing attack by Israel and the U.S. on Iran and all its ramifications. But there is also another story, which is the long term rift between the U.S. and the rest of the world about whether and how fast we should be addressing climate change.   This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Dr Fatih Birol, executive director of the International Energy Agency, for his third appearance on the podcast. He discusses the International Energy Agency’s integral role in trying to steer the world through the current energy crisis, how he sees the global energy system change in response to the crisis, and how his organisation is facing up to criticism from the US over its net-zero scenarios. Fatih and Michael discuss: Why the current crisis could surpass the oil shocks of the 1970s How the International Energy Agency is helping stabilize global markets   Efficiency measures and the need to reopen the Strait of Hormuz Why solar, batteries, and nuclear may surge amid the chaos  Why countries are looking toward coal to fill the gap Whether energy security is now overtaking climate as the top priority The growing divide between the U.S. and global institutions on climate policy And why Birol insists: “Data always wins.” As Executive Director of the International Energy Agency, Fatih has positioned the Agency at the centre of global efforts to advance a secure, affordable, and sustainable energy system. Dr Birol joined the IEA in the mid-1990s and progressed from junior analyst to Chief Economist, where he oversaw the flagship World Energy Outlook.  He has been included in the TIME100 list of the world’s most influential figures and recognised by Forbes as one of the world’s most influential figures in energy. He chairs the World Economic Forum’s Energy Advisory Board and is an honorary life member of Galatasaray Football Club. This episode was recorded on March 19, 2026. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links and more: The International Energy Agency: https://www.iea.org/ Sheltering from Oil Shocks report: https://www.iea.org/reports/sheltering-from-oil-shocks Fatih’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fatih-birol/ The World Energy Outlook 2025: https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2025 Fatih’s past appearance on Cleaning Up The World's Preeminent Energy Economist - Ep133: Fatih Birol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc7ItnBRqXI Setting the World's Energy Agenda - Ep28: Fatih Birol – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW5aPlRI44I

    28 min
  8. ⁠Energy Shocks, Inflation & Risk: How a Central Bank Responds to Crisis | Ep252: Pierre Wunsch

    Apr 8

    ⁠Energy Shocks, Inflation & Risk: How a Central Bank Responds to Crisis | Ep252: Pierre Wunsch

    How should a central bank respond to energy shocks? Will high oil and gas prices bolster the uptake of renewables? And what is the true cost of net zero 2050? This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Pierre Wunsch, Governor of the National Bank of Belgium and member of the European Central Bank’s governing council, for a candid, behind-the-scenes discussion about how central banks should and can respond to inflation, energy volatility, and climate transition. From the recent surge in oil and gas prices to the lessons learned from post-COVID inflation, Wunsch explains why central banks may have “got it wrong” during the Russia-Ukraine energy shock, and how they’re rethinking their response to supply shocks. Michael and Pierre dive into: The costs of net zero, and why a one-size fits all approach to decarbonisation isn’t working. Whether European economies can absorb the costs transition without losing competitiveness Why “transitory inflation” didn’t stay transitory during the Russia-Ukraine war The risk of political backlash and policy instability Why industry, not households, is the hardest part of decarbonisation for Europe The gap between climate ambition and credible policy tools. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links and more: Pierre Wunsch bio: https://www.nbb.be/en/cv/pierre-wunsch National Bank of Belgium’s Research on Climate: https://www.nbb.be/en/publications-research/publications/topics/climate How China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma Jun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu6giWzTxAY The 130 Trillion-Dollar Man - Ep84: Mark Carney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtA5ufMzKAU

    1h 8m
4.8
out of 5
72 Ratings

About

Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Informative, inspiring and fun!

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