Fund the People: A Podcast with Rusty Stahl

Fund the People

Our show offers transformative ideas, tools, and examples to help you invest in the nonprofit workforce within your sphere of influence. This unique podcast invites you into a fun, provocative conversation with diverse funders, nonprofits, scholars, and capacity-builders. In 2014, Rusty Stahl founded Fund the People, which works to maximize investments in America's nonprofit workforce. In September 2020, we launched this eponymous podcast to broadcast our message far and wide. In 2025, we launched the premium version of the show (visit patreon.com/FundthePeople). Thank you for listening!

  1. Happy Holidays! S8 Review and S9 Preview!

    12/21/2025 · BONUS

    Happy Holidays! S8 Review and S9 Preview!

    In this brief holiday bonus, you’ll get behind-the-scenes highlights of Season 8. Plus a sneak-peek at some of the provocative guests and valuable topics we’ll cover in season 9! Season 9 will start in late January 2026. If all goes according to plan, S9:E1 will drop on Wed., Jan. 21, 2026 at 8am ET. From thereon, new episodes will publish weekly on Wednesday mornings throughout the season. You’ll also learn about our the new FTP Podcast Premium at patreon.com/FundThePeople. For just $6 a month, you provide grassroots support for production of this ad-free show. And you offer monthly earned income for Fund the People, the national nonprofit organization that advocates for investment in the nonprofit workforce. Your support helps us remain an independent, bold voice for the nonprofit workers. You help us produce thought-leadership, research, tools, communications, educational programs, and advocacy for investment in the nonprofit workforce. As a Patreon member, you get: ​Extended episodes with audio and video ​Tons of bonus content, including special messages from Rusty, extras from new episodes, and video footage from our back catalogue of over 100 episodes​Discussions with Rusty and the FTP Pod community​Participation in live episode sessions, so you can ask your questions and participate in the conversation​A whole-new Patreon-only weekly show called Riverside Reflections. Patreon members can watch the video version of this episode, filmed down by the river in New York's Hudson Valley (where we record Riverside Reflections, our new podcast available exclusively on Patreon). Also on this episode, Rusty acknowledges the people who worked with him to make S8 happen: ​Erin Giunta, producer​Carla Paez, Editor​Jonny Taylor, Sound Engineer​Kayla Weathers, Administrative Assistant And thanks our major foundation supporters this year, who helped make this show and all our programming possible: ​The James Irvine Foundation​Barr Foundation​The Kresge Foundation​Raymond John Wean Foundation Thanks for listening, and thanks for all you do! Have a restful holiday season and we’ll talk to you in the New Year!

    12 min
  2. “Strong People Make Strong Organizations” with Sherece West-Scantlebury, Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation (Season Finalé)

    12/18/2025

    “Strong People Make Strong Organizations” with Sherece West-Scantlebury, Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation (Season Finalé)

    Get the Extended Version of this episode on our Premium show on Patreon: patreon.com/FundThePeople. ​Engage with Rusty and guests during episode recording​Learn with other listeners, guests, and Rusty in our discussion forum​Access extended episodes with video​Enjoy Riverside Reflections (RR), our new Premium-only extra show! Get the inside scoop from Rusty while getting outside for a waterside walk.​Tap into older episode’s video footage, bonus content, and more fun and valuable surprises! More extended and RR episodes are going up every week. Click here to listen to our first RR episode and view the post-episode video for free. Now on with the show… In our Season Finalé, you’ll get an inspiring discussion on defending the nonprofit sector, with a call to action for funders to act with courage rather than caution. The message is clear: a strong country depends on a strong, well-resourced nonprofit workforce, and philanthropy must choose to lead boldly in this moment. Host Rusty Stahl speaks with Dr. Sherece West-Scantlebury, President and CEO of the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation. Reflecting on more than 30 years in philanthropy and her forthcoming retirement, West-Scantlebury offers a candid assessment of what has and hasn’t worked in the sector. She traces the evolution of the Foundation’s mission, its focus on Arkansas working families, and how COVID reinforced the urgency of addressing low wages, systemic inequities, and the root causes of poverty. Throughout the conversation, she challenges philanthropy to confront the real costs of sustaining a healthy civil society and to move beyond outdated, restrictive funding models. West-Scantlebury also details the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation’s commitments to capacity building, nonprofit workforce pay and benefits, leader wellness, and innovative approaches such as enterprise capital. She argues that investing in nonprofit people is essential to nonprofit sustainability and impact. Her message is clear: a strong democracy depends on a strong, well-resourced nonprofit workforce. Philanthropy must choose to lead boldly in this moment. Download an edited transcript of this episode⁠ This is part 2 of our 2-part Season 8 Finalé. Check out part 1, a conversation with Andrea Levere of Capitalize Good (S8:E12), from December 10, 2025. Guest Bio: Sherece Y. West-Scantlebury, PhD, is a nationally recognized equity advocate and transformational leader whose career spans housing advocacy in New York City to executive roles at some of the Southeast’s most prominent foundations. For nearly two decades, she has led the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation, where she will retire at the end of 2025, after previously serving as the founding CEO of the Foundation for Louisiana and at the Annie E. Casey Foundation. Known for speaking life into leaders and organizations, Sherece brings deep expertise in public policy, strategic philanthropy, and program design. She is also the founder of Executive West Coaching & Consulting, where she supports women leaders and leaders of color with a trusted space to think clearly, lead with courage, and align leadership with their values and vision. Related Episodes: ​Enterprise Capital: A Framework for Sustainable Nonprofits - with Andrea Levere (S8:E12)​Lowering Our 'Revenue Risk,' with Gretchen Upholt, BDO (S8:E11)​'Silence Isolates, Solidarity Shields,' with Tonya Allen, McKnight Foundation (S8:E7)Links to Resources Discussed in the Episode: ​Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation​Fund the People​Annie E. Casey Foundation​Foundation for Louisiana​Capitalize Good​United for ALICE (ALICE: Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed)​ALICE in the Nonprofit Workforce​Enterprise Capital Explainer​Capacity Building in Philanthropy​MIT Living Wage Calculator​Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller, Sr. by Ron Chernow​Audre Lorde (referenced on silence and complicity)

    44 min
  3. Enterprise Capital: A Framework for Sustainable Nonprofits - with Andrea Levere

    12/10/2025

    Enterprise Capital: A Framework for Sustainable Nonprofits - with Andrea Levere

    In this episode, you’ll learn about a powerful alternative to restricted, project-based funding: enterprise capital for nonprofits. Guest Andrea Levere, founder and CEO of Capitalize Good, explains why nonprofits—like any enterprise—need multi-year, flexible capital that strengthens their balance sheets, builds reserves, and supports the people and systems that drive impact. Andrea breaks down the basic financial principles that determine nonprofit sustainability, and how enterprise capital enables organizations to innovate, hire essential staff, invest in technology, and create high-quality jobs. She also shares compelling examples—from affordable housing developers to workforce builders—showing how this kind of capital supports everything from salaries and benefits to new program development and strategic growth. Andrea and Rusty also dig into the relationship between talent-investing and enterprise capital, the pitfalls of scarcity-based philanthropy, and how funders can more effectively match their “sources of funds” to the actual needs of organizations. Andrea shares stories from Capitalize Good’s partnerships with funders like the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation and the Citi Foundation's Community Progress Makers, as well as the emerging work in Arkansas to pilot enterprise capital approaches statewide. Listeners will come away with a clear understanding of how enterprise capital works, why it matters, and how both nonprofits and funders can adopt this transformative approach. Download an edited transcript of the episode in .PDF format Links to Resources: Gift to Listeners: 6 Months Free Subscription to FTP Podcast Premium on Patreon (up to 50 people). Offer will no longer be available after 12/31/25 at 11:59pm ET. Fund the People website Long-Haul Grantmaking Report (Fund the People) Guest Organization & Initiatives Mentioned Capitalize Good website Capitalize Good “Blueprint for Enterprise Capital” Capitalize Good “Deeper Dive” FAQ section Andrea Levere on LinkedIn Capitalize Good on LinkedIn Yale School of Management Nonprofit Finance Fund Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation Citi Foundation – Community Progress Makers

    48 min
  4. Lowering Our 'Revenue Risk,' with Gretchen Upholt, BDO

    12/03/2025

    Lowering Our 'Revenue Risk,' with Gretchen Upholt, BDO

    In this episode, nonprofit finance expert Gretchen Upholt joins Rusty to introduce Nonprofit GPS, BDO’s free new online toolkit for scenario planning, business model resilience, and short-term coaching. Learn how your organization can navigate revenue risk and make informed financial decisions in 2026, as the impact of the Trump Administration's War on Charity continues to roll across the sector. Itching for more Fund the People Podcast? Join the new Premium version of the show on Patreon! Visit ⁠patreon.com/fundthepeople⁠ to join. You'll get extended episodes, videos, bonus content, and community conversations. Plus, you'll get Riverside Reflections, an entire new weekly show only available to premium subscribers! Get the inside scoop on Fund the People while getting outside for a walk and an intimate conversation with host Rusty Stahl. Download an edited transcript of this episode. Related Episodes: Funders Confront Reality and Myth of Nonprofit Overhead with Rodney Christopher, BDO MacArthur President Chooses Courage, Not Quiet with John Palfrey, MacArthur Foundation How Many-Year Grants Strengthen Nonprofit Jobs and Impact with Betsy Leondar-Wright, Fund the People Resources Mentioned: Nonprofit GPS website (free tools from BDO and their partners) Strong Nonprofits website Nonprofit Financial Commons website BDO Nonprofit and Education Funding for Real Change, the website that resulted from the Real Change, Real Costs Initiative On our 'PodPage', stream this and all episodes, find links to our show on your favorite podcast player⁠⁠, and more. Resources Mentioned: Nonprofit GPS website (free tools, templates, webinars, coaching from BDO and their partners) Strong Nonprofits website BDO Nonprofit and Education Funding for Real Change, the website that resulted from the Real Change, Real Costs Initiative Guest Bio: As a Managing Director with BDO’s Nonprofit and Grantmaker Advisory practice, Gretchen Upholt leads the team’s Cohort & Initiative programs, where BDO partners with funders to provide large-scale capacity building programs for their grantees. She also serves as a lead for several key product areas including training and finance technology consulting, and as a representative of BDO to nonprofits and funders in the Midwest region. In addition to her leadership in the practice, she splits her time between playing an active role as trainer, coach, and curriculum developer for cohort and other training initiatives and as consultant to nonprofit clients across the country, helping nonprofit leaders improve their financial management skills and processes. An experienced staff and program manager, Gretchen is skilled in training, capacity building, research, and program and volunteer management.  Previously, Gretchen served as the head of the Volunteer Department at the Thabyay Education Network in Thailand. In that role, Gretchen developed a strategic plan to improve monitoring and evaluation and program management in her department. She also served on the leadership team for the organization, where she reviewed and approved budgets for the organization’s 22 programs and worked on a plan to restructure the organization’s finance and operations staffing and systems.   Gretchen’s widely diverse nonprofit experience includes working on the corporate citizenship team at the TCC Group, designing and implementing a pilot research study on nonprofit talent costs for the Talent Philanthropy Project (now Fund the People), as a project manager with the Connecticut Coalition to End Homelessness, and as Chorus Manager for The Choral Arts Society of Washington. She also served as a Community Development Peace Corps Volunteer in Ukraine, where she designed project frameworks, wrote grants, and led a committee tasked with making funding decisions for USAID-funded grants.

    39 min
  5. We Need to Play and Eat Ice Cream: A Very Nonprofit Thanksgiving Episode - with Kristine Michie, ImpactFull

    11/26/2025

    We Need to Play and Eat Ice Cream: A Very Nonprofit Thanksgiving Episode - with Kristine Michie, ImpactFull

    Just in time for the Thanksgiving holiday, Rusty sits down with consultant and PlayFull Podcast host Kristine Michie for a lively conversation about the role of joy, play, and ice cream in sustaining the nonprofit workforce. Kristine shares how her lifelong roots in activism shaped her worldview, and how her consulting firm, ImpactFull, emerged with a mission to help social-change leaders weave fun, creativity, and moments of levity into the everyday grind of mission-driven work. Together, Rusty and Kristine explore why morale is so fragile in the current climate—and why nurturing hope, agency, and human connection is essential for impact. Drawing on insights from nearly 200 interviews with changemakers, Kristine describes how play reduces stress, builds community, fuels innovation, and restores the emotional stamina required for nonprofit work. She offers practical strategies for leaders and funders—such as incorporating playful tools into board development, gamifying engagement, and creating small rituals of joy that strengthen team culture. Through stories, laughter, and yes, shared ice cream, the episode highlights a simple but powerful truth: when nonprofits integrate play into their work, they replenish the spirit needed to keep going and keep changing the world. Related Episodes: Happy, Healthy Nonprofit People - with Beth KanterSocial Impact Grief: How to Mourn AND Organize in 2025 - with Meico Marquette WhitlockLinks to Resources: ImpactFull (Kristine's consulting practice)The PlayFull PodcastRusty Stahl: Defending Civil Society in a Time of Political Threats (episode on PlayFull Podcast)Durfee FoundationChangemaker CampGuest Bio: Kristine Michie is Founder of ImpactFull, Inc., creator of Provocative Joy Retreats, Changemaker Camp, and host of the PlayFull Podcast: Bringing Fun to the Serious Work of Changing the World. Her firm reinvents change-sector strategies with fresh approaches, including Board Development & Delight, Balance & Joy meeting facilitation, and Better Giving coaching for funder collectives. A published author, panelist, and speaker, Kristine brings joy to changemakers worldwide.

    33 min
  6. Imagine What's Possible: Understanding Funder Responses to the Trump Admin. War on Charity - with Megan Thomas, Catalyst of San Diego & Imperial Counties

    11/19/2025

    Imagine What's Possible: Understanding Funder Responses to the Trump Admin. War on Charity - with Megan Thomas, Catalyst of San Diego & Imperial Counties

    Get the extended version of this episode on our Patreon site: Subscribe for just $6 per month and support our advocacy for the nonprofit workforce: patreon.com/FundThePeople. This episode explores the stages of foundation responses to the Trump Administration’s War on Charities, through the lens of a place-based funder network. Rusty sits down with Megan Thomas, CEO of Catalyst of San Diego and Imperial Counties. This regional funder association has worked with its members and local nonprofit advisors to build several rounds of collaborative funding, including cash flow assistance loans. You’ll hear: ​The stages of local funder reaction and response to the Trump Administration's shock-and-awe tactics in their 2025 attacks on nonprofits and philanthropy;​Why and how local funders began organizing with one another to create collective funding;​How persistent leadership and courage can spur collective, partnership-based responses;​The consequences of the Trump Administration’s actions on the local social sector Megan is a longstanding leader in the philanthropic community, and her organization, Catalyst, is one of Fund the People's partners in the California Talent Justice Initiative. This episode is part of our biweekly Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy Series, as well as our ongoing efforts to feature our California Talent Justice Initiative partners across the Golden State.  Transcript: ​Edited PDF of Episode Transcript with Time Stamps Related episodes from FTP Podcast: ​Defend Nonprofits, Defend the Social Safety Net - with Edward Hershey, CEO, Home of Guiding Hands (San Diego)​Nonprofit Staff Resilience and Wellbeing in Turbulent Times - with Loretta Turner, Founder and Strategist, Do Good Leadership Collective​MacArthur President Chooses Courage, Not Quiet - with John Palfrey, President, MacArthur FoundationResources mentioned in the episode: ​Catalyst of San Diego and Imperial Counties​USD Nonprofit Institute Report (March 2025)​Coordinated Regional Response Collaborative​Resilient Response Fund​Sustained Support Fund​San Diego Solidarity Network​Community-Centric Fundraising Guest bio: Megan serves as Catalyst’s president & CEO, providing strategic leadership and partnership to the entire Catalyst staff, board, members, and community partners. Megan oversees Catalyst’s facilitation of collaborative efforts among its funder members and other stakeholders; leads the production of philanthropy and impact investing skills-building and issue based learning; and spearheads Catalyst’s work related to championing equity and opportunity. She strengthens Imperial and San Diego County communities through shared learning and pooled and aligned funding strategies, and initiatives fiscally sponsored by Catalyst. Megan brings 20 years of experience in the nonprofit and philanthropic fields to this role, having most recently served as Executive Director of San Diego Coastkeeper where she built partnerships among the nonprofit, business, and public sectors to advance environmental goals across San Diego County. Megan received her Bachelor of Science in Business Administration from Georgetown University and her Masters in Business Administration from Yale School of Management. She serves on the board of directors for the United Philanthropy Forum (national) and the Museum of Us (San Diego).

    40 min
  7. Funding Nonprofit People & Possibility: Inside the Durfee Foundation

    11/12/2025

    Funding Nonprofit People & Possibility: Inside the Durfee Foundation

    In this episode, you'll get valuable insights from the CEO of one of the few foundations in the US focused on nonprofit people, not nonprofit programs. Our guest is Maria Cabildo, CEO of The Durfee Foundation. Durfee funds “people and possibilities in Los Angeles county.” Maria served as President and CEO of the East LA Community Corporation for 16 years, where she was the recipient of multiple forms of Durfee support. She has also worked in government and other philanthropic organizations. We discuss Durfee’s interlocking funding programs: their signature sabbatical award for nonprofit leaders; the Stanton Fellowship (an R&D opportunity to advance new ideas); Springboard (catalytic support for emerging organizations); and the Lark Awards (collective care and renewal for staff at community-based organizations). Maria also shares insights on why funders should recognize the genius and ingenuity in community-developed solutions to problems; staying grounded in the realities and relationships of grassroots communities as we become powerful professionals; and leading during crisis, and how funders can respond to crises by remaining consistent and stable, while being responsive and stepping-up support for nonprofits. Guest Bio: Maria Cabildo (she/her) is a lifelong Angelena. Born and raised in East Los Angeles. She has a long career in public service. She has held positions in the philanthropic, nonprofit, private, and government sectors, including co-founder and CEO of the East LA Community Corporation (ELACC) from 1999 – 2015. She received both a Durfee Foundation Sabbatical and Stanton fellowship while CEO of ELACC. She holds a bachelor’s degree from Columbia University, a master’s degree in Urban Planning from UCLA’s Luskin School of Public Affairs, and a Certificate in Advanced Environmental Studies from Harvard University’s Graduate School of Design. She lives in Eagle Rock with her two adult children and their cats, Milk & Andaluza. Relevant Episodes: Thriving Wages for Community Organizers Nonprofit Staff Resilience and Well-Being in Turbulent Times Breaking the Silence: Making Leadership Transitions Safe for Nonprofits Resources Discussed: The Durfee Foundation Sabbatical Program (Related: Creative Disruption Report on funding nonprofit sabbaticals) Stanton Fellowship (Related: What If: Insights from a Decade of Philanthropic R&D) Springboard Fund Lark Awards Other organizations discussed: East L.A. Community Corporation Nonprofit Sustainability Initiative Trust-Based Philanthropy Project

    54 min
  8. 'Silence Isolates, Solidarity Shields,' with Tonya Allen, McKnight Foundation

    11/05/2025

    'Silence Isolates, Solidarity Shields,' with Tonya Allen, McKnight Foundation

    In this powerful episode of Fund the People’s Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy series, Rusty sits down with Tonya Allen, President of the McKnight Foundation, to explore how philanthropy can respond to the Trump Administration’s War on Charity, and serve as an active force for transformation. Tonya shares her roots in Detroit activism, lessons from community leaders who shaped her understanding of philanthropy as “an active verb,” and her belief that funders must embrace—not shy away from—power to change systems. She urges foundations to reject fear and isolation in the face of political attacks, reminding listeners that “silence isolates, and solidarity shields.” Tonya and Rusty also discuss how McKnight has transformed under her leadership—expanding its grantmaking to historic levels, adopting bold investment and climate commitments, and launching the $5 billion GroundBreak Coalition to build wealth for communities of color in the Twin Cities. She offers candid insights on trust-based philanthropy, supporting nonprofit workers, and how the Unite in Advance initiative is helping the social sector stand strong against coordinated threats. This episode is a master class in courageous, values-driven leadership in philanthropy. Guest Bio: Tonya Allen is a leader and a change agent with a passion for co-creating an equitable, sustainable world. In 2021, she became president of the McKnight Foundation, a Minnesota-based family foundation that advances a more just, creative, and abundant future where people and the planet thrive. In 2024, McKnight granted over $145 million—the highest charitable payout in the Foundation’s history at 7 percent of its endowment—in support of equitable communities, a clean energy economy, global food systems, artists and culture bearers, and innovative neuroscience research. Beyond this increase in grantmaking, Tonya has worked to ensure that McKnight uses every tool in its toolbox as a philanthropic organization. In her first year at McKnight, Tonya championed using the Foundation’s investments to advance net zero goals, and elevated McKnight’s voice and leadership to rebuild Twin Cities neighborhoods and small businesses impacted by Covid-19 and the 2020 civil unrest. In 2022, Tonya helped launch the GroundBreak Coalition, an ambitious, multi-sector effort to close wealth gaps in Minneapolis-St. Paul. In 2023, GroundBreak announced nearly $1 billion in commitments towards its goals. Prior to joining McKnight, Tonya served as president and CEO of The Skillman Foundation, and as a program officer at the Charles Stewart Mott and Thompson McCully foundations. She was a co-founder and architect of Detroit Children’s Fund, and the founder and director of Detroit Parent Network. Similar Episodes: MacArthur President Chooses Courage, Not Quiet – with John Palfrey, MacArthur FoundationNonprofits, the U.S. Constitution & the ACLU – with Mike Zamore, ACLU Episode Links: Tonya Bio and Headshot.McKnight’s “All in On Mission” blog postTonya’s essay "Why We Increased Our Giving"Unite in Advance Op-Ed in Nonprofit Quarterly Council on Foundations’ Sign-On Statement from PhilanthropyInside Philanthropy story on the GroundBreak CoalitionStatement from Tonya following the mass shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church and School in Minneapolis

    48 min

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About

Our show offers transformative ideas, tools, and examples to help you invest in the nonprofit workforce within your sphere of influence. This unique podcast invites you into a fun, provocative conversation with diverse funders, nonprofits, scholars, and capacity-builders. In 2014, Rusty Stahl founded Fund the People, which works to maximize investments in America's nonprofit workforce. In September 2020, we launched this eponymous podcast to broadcast our message far and wide. In 2025, we launched the premium version of the show (visit patreon.com/FundthePeople). Thank you for listening!

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