The UpWords Podcast

Upper House
  • 5.0 (14)
  • Christianity
  • Updated Semimonthly

Each week, we sit down with scholars, authors, and leaders to explore faith, vocation, culture, and what it means to think and live well. For curious Christians and honest seekers. An initiative of SLBF STUDIO at Upper House in Madison, WI. 

  1. 6d ago

    Leadership Through Suffering and Surrender | Rev. Dr. Nicole Martin

    What does it look like to lead the way Jesus did — through the cross, not around it? Host Joy Fea welcomes Rev. Dr. Nicole Massie Martin, President and CEO of Christianity Today, to talk about her book Nailing It: Why Successful Leadership Demands Suffering and Surrender. Together, they explore what people really need from a leader, why perfectionism isn't the same as excellence, how power works for women with and without a title, and why loyalty can quietly become an idol. Nicole also shares what “cruciform leadership” looks like on an ordinary Tuesday, and what she'd tell her twentysomething self about ambition, insecurity, and calling. WHAT YOU WILL LEARNWhy transparency — not just confidence — is what makes a leader trustworthy, and how naming the “turbulence” ahead of time actually builds a team's confidence rather than undermining it.What Nicole's book title actually means: leadership “suffering” isn't suffering for its own sake — it's dying to ego, control, and ambition so that something greater can be resurrected through you.How to recognize when perfectionism, not excellence, is driving your leadership (and your parenting) — and why anything involving other people can never be perfect.The difference between operating with excellence and operating to prove your worth — and why God's approval, not your output, is the more stable foundation.A framework for understanding power beyond your job title: legitimate, expert, informational, referential, and reward power, and how to identify and use whatever power you actually have.How to tell the difference between healthy, Christ-centered loyalty and loyalty that has quietly become an idol — and why toxic leaders are usually surrounded by loyal followers who are afraid to speak up.What women uniquely bring to leadership when they're free to lead from who God made them to be, rather than compensating for who they're told they aren't.What “cruciform leadership” looks like in practice — a daily, repeated act of surrendering your schedule, your meetings, and your outcomes to God rather than white-knuckling your way through them.How Nicole leads a 70-year-old media ministry without becoming captive to its legacy — maintaining Christianity Today's founding mission while letting its expression evolve.Nicole's advice to young leaders on discerning calling: focus on your strengths rather than fixing your weaknesses, and hold your context loosely — your calling is bigger than any one role.ABOUT OUR GUEST  Reverend Doctor Nicole Massie Martin was born and educated in Baltimore, Maryland. She graduated magna cum laude from Vanderbilt University with a triple major in Human and Organizational Development, Educational Studies, and French. Dr. Martin received her Master of Divinity from Princeton Theological Seminary and earned a Doctor of Ministry from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. Dr. Martin is the founder and Executive Director of Soulfire International Ministries, which accelerates thriving for pastors, churches, and younger leaders. She has decades of executive leadership experience in the church and Christian non-profits and is currently serving as the President and Chief Executive Officer of Christianity Today. She is also active in her local congregation, Kingdom Fellowship AME Church, in Maryland. Prior to her role at Christianity Today, Dr. Martin has served in a variety of leadership and executive capacities, including as the Senior Vice President of Ministry Impact at the American Bible Society, as Executive Minister at The Park Church, and Assistant Professor of Ministry and Leadership Development at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Charlotte, NC. Dr. Martin is a gifted writer and author of numerous articles and three books: Made to Lead: Empowering Women for Ministry, Leaning In, Letting Go: A Lenten Devotional, and Nailing It: Why Successful Leadership Demands Suffering and Surrender.  She serves on the executive council of the National Association of Evangelicals, the Board of Trustees at Fuller Theological Seminary, and on the National Advisory Council for the Salvation Army. She is a founding board member of the Center for Christianity and Public Life and has been inducted into the esteemed Board of Preachers at Morehouse College. Dr. Martin is married to her best friend, Dr. Mark Martin, and they have two amazing daughters, Addison and Josephine. Send us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

  2. Aug 24

    Belonging Is Not Proximity | Rev. Dr. Alex Gee

    This summer, the UpWords Podcast is featuring leaders making a tangible difference in the Madison community. Host Rebecca Cooks sits down with Rev. Dr. Alexander Gee — pastor, author, and founder and CEO of the Center for Black Excellence and Culture — for a wide-ranging, honest conversation recorded not long after the Center's grand opening drew more than 1,500 people through its doors. They talk about what the Center actually is — part museum, part business incubator, part performing arts venue, part neuroscience research lab — and how it grew out of listening sessions with more than 700 Black Madisonians. From there, the conversation turns to belonging: why Rev. Dr. Gee insists belonging is not the same as proximity, and why he believes American integration, as it actually unfolded, cost Black communities more than it gave — including the story of the 36,000 Black teachers who lost their jobs when schools integrated. They also discuss the Harlem Renaissance and W.E.B. Du Bois, what has kept Rev. Dr. Gee rooted in Madison across four decades, his advice for minorities discerning whether to stay in the city and for white residents who want to be genuine allies, and why he believes the Black church — not the American government — has shaped the moral conscience of the nation. The conversation closes with reflections on the art and music that heal. GUEST BIO Rev. Dr. Alexander Gee is the Founder and CEO of the Center for Black Excellence and Culture in Madison, Wisconsin, and the founding lead pastor of Fountain of Life Covenant Church. He also founded the Nehemiah Center for Urban Leadership Development and its "Justified Anger" initiative, and he serves as an adjunct professor at the University of Wisconsin–Madison. Over more than 40 years of ministry and community leadership, he has raised more than $70 million for Madison-area organizations addressing racial disparities, including the $33 million Center for Black Excellence and Culture, which opened debt-free with a grand-opening celebration on May 6, 2026, drawing over 1,500 visitors. LINKS https://www.theblackcenter.org/https://africanamericanstudies.wisc.edu/https://africanamericanstudies.wisc.edu/2024/05/13/reverend-dr-alex-gee-receives-honorary-doctorate/https://nehemiah.org/https://nehemiah.org/jacourses/ Send us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

  3. Aug 10

    What Is the Bible Actually For? | Jeff Dryden

    How do you read the Bible? Most of us assume we already know: we read to learn what happened, to understand what a passage means, or to find a principle to apply. In this episode, host Dan Hummel is joined by guest Jeff Dryden, professor of biblical studies and department chair at Covenant College, to ask whether Scripture is inviting us to something deeper. Dryden is the author of A Hermeneutic of Wisdom: Recovering the Formative Agency of Scripture (Baker Academic), which argues that the whole Bible — not just its "wisdom" books — is written to shape our deepest loves and convictions, not merely to hand us information or timeless principles. Dan and Jeff talk through why biblical scholars are trained to tell us what a text meant rather than what it means, how that division of labor between biblical studies and theology leaves a formation-shaped gap, and what philosophers like Hans-Georg Gadamer and Michael Polanyi have to offer pastors and everyday readers trying to close it. Along the way: why Paul is a far less systematic thinker than popular imagination suggests, what Mark's Gospel is doing to our idols of Jesus, and why "the Bible wasn't written to us, but it was written for us" is true — and doesn't go far enough. In this episode: Why biblical scholars are trained to ask what a text meant, not what it means — and what gets lost in that division of labor Why the Bible is always "applied theology" — never abstract, formal theology — and what that means for how a sermon should be builtReading Mark's Gospel as an exercise in dismantling our idols of who Jesus isHans-Georg Gadamer's idea of Wirkungsgeschichte ("history of effects") and why we can never step outside the tradition we read fromAugustine's test for biblical understanding: if you haven't grown in love of God and neighbor, you haven't understood a wordWhy the historical-critical and grammatical-historical methods — liberal and conservative alike — share the same modern DNAWhat's next for Dryden: a forthcoming book on evangelical moralism and legalism as counterfeit versions of the gospel About the guest: Jeff Dryden (PhD, Cambridge University) is professor of biblical studies and chair of the department at Covenant College in Lookout Mountain, Georgia, where he has taught for nearly two decades. He is the author of Theology and Ethics in 1 Peter and A Hermeneutic of Wisdom: Recovering the Formative Agency of Scripture (Baker Academic). Mentioned in this episode: Jeff Dryden, A Hermeneutic of Wisdom: Recovering the Formative Agency of ScriptureBibleProject and Tim MackieJohn Walton, Old Testament scholar, Wheaton College Graduate SchoolScot McKnight and Hans Boersma, Five Things Biblical Scholars Wish Theologians Knew / Five Things Theologians Wish Biblical Scholars KnewHans-Georg Gadamer, philosopher (Wirkungsgeschichte, hermeneutics)Anthony Thiselton, The Two Horizons / New Horizons in HermeneuticsSandra Schneiders and Michael Polanyi ("personal knowledge")Augustine, On Christian Doctrine (De Doctrina Christiana)Johann Philipp Gabler and Wilhelm Dilthey, on the historical roots of modern biblical studiesSend us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

  4. Jul 27

    From Newsroom to Pulpit: A Conversation with Phil Haslanger

    Phil Haslanger has spent decades straddling two worlds that don't always trust each other: journalism and the church. In this episode of The UpWords Podcast, host John Terrill sits down with the longtime Capital Times editor turned ordained pastor for an in-person conversation recorded at Upper House in Madison, Wisconsin, as part of a summer series spotlighting local leaders whose faith shapes their public work. Over a 35-year career at The Capital Times, Phil worked as a reporter, city editor, editorial page editor, and managing editor before entering ordained ministry with the United Church of Christ in 2007. He talks about growing up in an almost entirely white Marinette, Wisconsin, how his image of God has shifted from "someone at a control panel" to what he calls "the force of love in the universe," and what a career built on journalistic skepticism taught him about pastoral care. The conversation also covers Phil’s work building an interfaith network of Fitchburg-area churches, his award-winning advocacy against domestic violence, the line between prophetic public witness and partisan politics, and where he sees both progress and failure in how the American press covers religion — including a candid take on AI's growing and risky role in newsrooms. ABOUT OUR GUESTPhil Haslanger has spent his career — and his second career — straddling two worlds: journalism and ministry. A UW–Madison graduate (BA in sociology, 1971; MA in journalism, 1973), he spent 35 years at The Capital Times in Madison as a reporter, city editor, editorial page editor, and managing editor, and for years wrote a column on the intersection of faith and politics. Phil grew up Catholic in Marinette, Wisconsin, and briefly considered the priesthood before coming to UW–Madison to study sociology. In 2000, he and his wife left the Catholic Church for the United Church of Christ; he entered the UCC's lay pastor program, was ordained in 2007, and served for a decade as pastor of Memorial United Church of Christ in Fitchburg before retiring in 2017. He later served as a parish associate at Christ Presbyterian Church in Madison, retiring again in 2024. He was inducted into the Wisconsin Newspaper Association's Hall of Fame in 2021, named a distinguished alumnus of the UW–Madison School of Journalism and Mass Communication in 2022, and received the Governor's Council on Domestic Abuse's annual justice award in 2015 for mobilizing local faith communities to support victims of domestic violence. He is married to Ellen Reuter, and they have four adult children and seven grandchildren. Resource LinksUW–Madison Center for Journalism Ethics: https://ethics.sjmc.wisc.edu/Religion News Service: https://religionnews.com/The Capital Times: https://captimes.com/Send us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

  5. Jul 13

    Loving Our Neighborhoods Together | Jon Anderson

    This summer, The UpWords Podcast is spotlighting local leaders shaping faith and community life in Madison. Host Dan Johnson sits down with Jon Anderson, founder and executive director of Collaboration Project, to talk about what happens when churches stop working in silos and start loving their neighborhoods together. Jon traces the winding path from twenty years of local pastoral ministry to launching a nonprofit he once swore he'd never start, shares how COVID-19 and the murder of George Floyd became unexpected catalysts for church collaboration, and unpacks why Collaboration Project now organizes its work around neighborhoods rather than issues or denominations. Along the way, Jon tells the story of a chance lunch conversation that turned into 1,200 free prom dresses for high schoolers, reflects on 25 years of Madison Missions and a decade of the Kingdom Justice Summit, and offers a biblical definition of justice rooted in shalom. He closes with a hope for what Dane County's church could look like ten years from now. ABOUT OUR GUEST Jon Anderson — Founder & Executive Director, Collaboration Project Jon served as a pastor in the Madison area for twenty years before launching the Collaboration Project in 2019. He has a passion for serving the local church and encouraging it as it serves the most vulnerable. Jon has a history of starting programs centered on engaging the church in local service. He helped begin Madison Missions, a local youth service camp that engages hundreds of students every summer. He also co-founded the Kingdom Justice Summit, which annually brings together hundreds of people from dozens of churches around Christianity and justice in our city.  RESOURCES & LINKS MENTIONED  Collaboration Project — connecting Dane County churches to love their neighborhoods togetherKingdom Justice Summit — annual local gathering exploring biblical justice, hosted at Upper HouseMadison Missions — Collaboration Project's local youth service camp, celebrating its 25th summerBibleProject's "Justice" video — referenced by Jon as a helpful primer on biblical justiceSend us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

  6. Jul 6

    A Quick Update on our Summer Release Schedule

    Thank you for listening to The UpWords Podcast. We wanted to send you a quick message to let you know that we will be moving to every-other-week podcast releases in July and August this summer, and returning to weekly podcast releases in September. Have a blessed summer!    Send us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

  7. Jun 29

    Israel, the End Times & the Evangelical Imagination | Dan Hummel

    What do evangelicals mean when they talk about “supporting Israel” — and how did Jewish–Christian dialogue evolve from centuries of suspicion into the conversations happening today? In the third installment of our series built around the Last Questions of Faith community lecture, host Jean Geran welcomes historian and author Dan Hummel for a wide-ranging conversation on Christian Zionism, evangelical theology, and the hard, patient work of talking across big religious differences. Dan traces the roots of Christian support for Israel — from post-Holocaust theology and the Second Vatican Council’s Nostra Aetate to Billy Graham’s 1969 meeting with the American Jewish Committee — and explains how dispensationalism shapes the way many evangelicals read Israel into biblical prophecy. Along the way: why Christian Zionists are an organized minority rather than the evangelical majority, how the U.S.–Israel relationship has been deliberately cultivated over decades, and what a more generous, substantive interfaith dialogue — one that includes the more conservative voices in each tradition — might actually look like. GUEST BIO Dan Hummel is a historian of U.S. religion and the author of The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism: How the Evangelical Battle Over the End Times Shaped a Nation (Eerdmans, 2023) and Covenant Brothers: Evangelicals, Jews, and U.S.-Israeli Relations. He is the Director of the Lumen Center at the SL Brown Foundation, and is a co-host of American Evangelicals: A History Podcast. His research and writing focus on Christian Zionism, evangelical theology, and the history of U.S.–Israel relations. RESOURCES & LINKS Book — The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism (Eerdmans, 2023), foreword by Mark NollBook — Covenant Brothers: Evangelicals, Jews, and U.S.-Israeli RelationsMentioned: Amy-Jill Levine (A.J. Levine), New Testament & Jewish studies scholar; earlier in this seriesMentioned: Nostra Aetate (Second Vatican Council, 1965); E.P. Sanders; N.T. Wright; Marvin Wilson, Our Father AbrahamSend us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

  8. Jun 22

    Rediscovering the Bible as Wisdom Literature — Tim Mackie of BibleProject

    What if many of us have been taught to read the Bible in a way it was never meant to be read? In this special live event recorded by Upper House, BibleProject co-founder Tim Mackie returns to Madison — the city where he earned his PhD in Hebrew Bible and Jewish Studies at UW–Madison and pastored at Blackhawk Church — to share the story behind one of the most widely used Bible-teaching resources in the world. Tim traces the origins of BibleProject to a coffee-shop conversation with his old college friend Jon Collins, a successful maker of animated explainer videos who had quietly become a “post-Bible Christian.” Their shared question — how do you engage Scripture well? — became the heartbeat of the project. Tim contrasts the “reference book” Bible many of us inherited (turn to the right verse, find the answer) with a richer vision of Scripture as ancient Jewish literary art designed to form wise, mature human beings over a lifetime. Along the way, he unpacks seven core convictions that have guided BibleProject from the beginning — three about where the Bible comes from, and four about what it is for — closing with the practice of meditation (the Hebrew hagah) and an invitation to try again with Scripture, whatever your history with it. Whether you’ve loved the Bible, struggled with it, or aren’t sure what to make of it, this conversation offers a fresh invitation to see Scripture as a unified, beautiful, and transformative story that leads to Jesus. The Seven Convictions (At a Glance)Where the Bible is from: Collaborative literature — human authors and God’s Spirit meeting, not passive dictation.Unified literature — one interconnected story leading to Jesus.Ancient literature — written for us, but not to us; context matters.What the Bible is for: Messianic literature — every theme sets up and finds fulfillment in Jesus.Communal literature — designed to be read aloud together over a lifetime.Wisdom literature — forming us to discern good from bad, not just memorize answers.Meditation literature — hagah: slow, repeated reading that rewards a lifetime of return.About the GuestTim Mackie is co-founder and lead scholar of BibleProject. He holds a PhD in Hebrew Bible and Jewish Studies from the University of Wisconsin–Madison and a degree in theology from Western Seminary in Portland. His research focused on the manuscript history of the Bible and the formation of the biblical canon — including his dissertation on the book of Ezekiel, with particular attention to the Septuagint and Dead Sea Scrolls. After years of ministry as a local-church pastor (including at Madison’s Blackhawk Church and later Door of Hope in Portland) and as a professor at Western Seminary, Tim now serves as lead scholar and creative director at BibleProject. He lives in Portland with his wife, Jessica, and their two sons. https://bibleproject.com/  Send us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

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About

Each week, we sit down with scholars, authors, and leaders to explore faith, vocation, culture, and what it means to think and live well. For curious Christians and honest seekers. An initiative of SLBF STUDIO at Upper House in Madison, WI. 

Information

  • Creator
    Upper House
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2026
  • Episodes
    196
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The UpWords Podcast
  • Show Website
    The UpWords Podcast

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