The UpWords Podcast

Upper House
  • 5.0 (14)
  • Christianity
  • Updated Biweekly

Each week, we sit down with scholars, authors, and leaders to explore faith, vocation, culture, and what it means to think and live well. For curious Christians and honest seekers. An initiative of SLBF STUDIO at Upper House in Madison, WI. 

  1. 17h ago

    Bad Religion, Good News: Surviving Church Disappointment | Scott Bessenecker

    What do you do when the church — the very community that's supposed to reflect the love of God — becomes a source of real pain? Host Dan Johnson sits down with Scott Bessenecker, author of Bad Religion, Good News: An Honest Guide to Spiritual Disappointment, for an unflinching conversation about church hurt, institutional failure, and the long road toward healing. Drawing on four decades of campus ministry with InterVarsity, Scott shares about being both a victim and participant in the church's sins, the role of self-examination in avoiding the spiral into deconstruction, and why honesty about the church's failures doesn't have to mean abandoning Christian community altogether. He also reflects on his own experience with disappointment with God — including his recovery from a stroke — and what it means to discover that God's presence in grief may be more powerful than miraculous rescue. Whether you've been wounded by a leader, disillusioned by an institution, or are simply trying to maintain an honest and hopeful faith, this conversation offers both clarity and compassion for the journey. IN THIS EPISODE What prompted Scott to write Bad Religion, Good NewsBeing both a victim and a participant in the sins of the churchWhy self-examination is essential to navigating disappointment without becoming toxicThe difference between deconstruction and honest disappointmentHow to talk openly about the church's failures without dismissing its goodThe hard work of forgiving an institution that may never apologizeScott's personal experience with a stroke and finding God in grief rather than rescueWhen it's time to leave a church community — and how to do it wellSigns of spiritual hunger in the current generation of young adultsWhat a healthier American church might look like in a decade GUEST Scott Bessenecker is a longtime ministry leader and author who spent four decades with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. His new book, Bad Religion, Good News: An Honest Guide to Spiritual Disappointment, invites readers into honest conversations about the church's failures — and how to find deeper faith on the other side. RESOURCES https://heraldpress.com/9781513817644/bad-religion-good-news/ https://slbf.org/studio Send us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

    41 min

  2. May 18

    Pastoring for Monday: Helping the Church Take Work Seriously | Matt Rusten

    What would it look like if the church took seriously the 80,000 hours most people spend at work over a lifetime? In this conversation, host John Terrill sits down with Matt Rusten — pastor-turned-vocational-discipleship-advocate and author of Pastoring for Monday: Help Your Congregation Integrate Faith and Work — to explore one of the most neglected dimensions of Christian formation: our everyday work. Matt shares the story of Tom Nelson — founder of Made to Flourish — who famously confessed to his congregation that he had been "committing pastoral malpractice" by equipping people for a minority of their lives while ignoring where they spent most of their time. That confession became the seedbed for an entire movement, and it shapes every page of Matt's new book. Together, John and Matt trace the biblical arc from creation to new creation and show why work — far from being a necessary evil — is woven into the fabric of what it means to be human. They discuss four postures Christians take toward workplace engagement (boxing gloves, latex gloves, camouflage gloves, and work gloves), unpack a powerful framework for pastoral care drawn from the stages of enchantment and disenchantment in Ecclesiastes, and offer practical handles for how sermons, small groups, and outreach ministries can begin integrating a theology of vocation — without creating new programs or hiring a "faith and work pastor." Whether you are a pastor, a church leader, or simply someone wrestling with purpose in your daily work, this conversation offers both grounding and hope. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN The origin story of Made to Flourish and the "pastoral malpractice" confession that launched a movementWhy faith and work discipleship is a biblical, historical, and pastoral priorityA creation–fall–redemption–new creation framework for understanding workFour postures for cultural engagement: boxing gloves, latex gloves, camouflage, and work glovesLessons from Lesslie Newbigin and Tim Keller on mission, vocation, and the local churchPractical tools for pastors: preaching, small groups, outreach, and vocational formationThe enchantment–disenchantment–re-enchantment cycle and how the Gospel reframes workMade to Flourish's three initiatives: Common Good Magazine, Scatter, and pastoral residencies GUEST Matt Rusten — Executive Director of Made to Flourish; author of Pastoring for Monday (IVP, 2026) LINKS & RESOURCES Pastoring for Monday (IVP Press) Made to Flourish Common Good Magazine More episodes & podcast offerings — SLBF Studio Send us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

    48 min

  3. May 11

    A Jewish Scholar on What Christians miss when Reading the Bible | Dr. Amy-Jill Levine

    What does it look like when a Jewish New Testament scholar sits down with a Christian host to talk about how two ancient traditions read the same texts — and reach such different conclusions? That's exactly the conversation host Jean Geran has with Dr. Amy-Jill Levine in this wide-ranging episode recorded in Madison, Wisconsin. AJ Levine is University Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies at Vanderbilt Divinity School, and one of the most respected voices in Jewish-Christian dialogue today. She recently joined us for our Questions of Faith event in Oshkosh and spent time in Wisconsin as a scholar in residence at First United Methodist Church in Madison. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN How growing up Jewish in a Portuguese Roman Catholic neighborhood in Massachusetts led AJ to a lifetime of studying the New TestamentWhy the Torah is said to have "70 faces" — and what that means for how Jews and Christians approach interpretation differentlyWhat Jews and Christians share in terms of canon, prayer, and Scripture — and where they meaningfully divergeAJ's surprisingly practical take on salvation, Torah-observance, and whether Jews worry about getting into heavenWhy Jesus used parables — and why he rarely explained themThe difference between Jewish communal identity and Christian individualism, and what each tradition can learn from the otherBaseball vs. football: a memorable analogy for understanding Jewish and Christian orientations toward time, memory, and the futureThe Hebrew concept of tzaddik (the righteous one) and what it means to bless the city you're inWhether shared stories can bridge religious and cultural divides — and AJ's honest, unsentimental answerLament as relationship: what Tevye, the Psalms, and Job have in common, and why arguing with God keeps us in the conversation GUEST Amy-Jill Levine is University Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies at Vanderbilt Divinity School and College of Arts and Science, and the author of numerous books including Short Stories by Jesus: The Enigmatic Parables of a Controversial Rabbi and The Misunderstood Jew: The Church and the Scandal of the Jewish Jesus. Send us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

    53 min

  4. May 4

    PREVIEW: American Evangelicals - A History Podcast

    This week on The UpWords Podcast, we're bringing you something a little different — and we think you're going to love it. We're sharing the first episode of a brand-new podcast series from the Lumen Center and SLBF STUDIO: American Evangelicals, A History Podcast. Hosted by historians John Fea, Dan Hummel, and Maggie Capra, this series takes a thoughtful, deep dive into one of the most talked-about religious movements in American history. In this opening episode, they start with a deceptively simple question: What is an American evangelical? Beginning with the extraordinary story of Nathan Cole, an ordinary Connecticut farmer who rode twelve miles on horseback in 1740 to hear George Whitefield preach, the historians trace the origins of what would become a world-shaping religious movement. LEARN more about the series - https://slbf.org/americanevangelicalspodcast Along the way, they discuss: The Bebbington Quadrilateral — the four markers historians use to define evangelicalism: conversionism, biblicism, crucicentrism, and activismWhy the "new birth" or born-again experience is so central to evangelical identityGeorge Whitefield's remarkable celebrity and his transatlantic influenceHow evangelicalism was, in its early form, a disruptive and progressive movement challenging established religious authorityThe complex relationship between the First Great Awakening and the American RevolutionIf you've ever felt like the word "evangelical" is confusing, contested, or a little loaded, this conversation brings real historical clarity. This is episode one of a three-part introduction to evangelicalism — with much more to come in the series. SUBSCRIBE to the podcast in your favorite podcast app - https://americanevangelicalsahistorypodcast.buzzsprout.com And if this episode resonates, share it with someone who wants a deeper, more nuanced understanding of American evangelical history. Send us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

    1h 7m

  5. Apr 29

    TRAILER: American Evangelicals - A History Podcast

    STUDIO at the SL Brown Foundation is launching a brand new podcast, and we wanted to share it with our faithful listeners of The UpWords Podcast.  If you like what you hear, click the links below to subscribe or follow the show: Listen on the web = https://americanevangelicalsahistorypodcast.buzzsprout.com Apple Podcasts = https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/american-evangelicals-a-history-podcast/id1893672281 Spotify = https://open.spotify.com/show/1xxlIG0bcGbK8arTbYTCxF?si=7a70e3973cec47e5 Send us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

    3 min

  6. Apr 27

    Reading as a Spiritual Practice | Jeff Crosby

    What if picking up a book could become a form of prayer? In this conversation, host John Terrill sits down with Jeff Crosby — publisher, author, and lifelong champion of the written word — to talk about his book World of Wonders: A Spirituality of Reading (Paraclete Press, 2025). Jeff brings more than four decades in bookselling and publishing to a deeply personal question: why should we read? His own reading life began with Sunday comics in the Indianapolis Star and baseball biographies, until one book — The Admiral’s Daughter, heard about on Good Morning America — “flipped a switch” and opened, in his words, “this idea of a world of wonder.” From there, a career took shape: 13 years as a bookseller, 24 years at InterVarsity Press (ultimately as its publisher), and now as president of ECPA, the trade association of Christian publishing. In this episode, John and Jeff discuss: How a liturgy before reading — drawn from Douglas McKelvey’s Every Moment Holy — can transform how we approach any book Why reading diverse voices (across gender, ethnicity, and genre) is a pathway toward becoming more human and more Christlike The practice of rereading: how books like Markings by Dag Hammarskjöld and Kent Haruf’s novels serve as lifelong companions Three practical strategies for becoming a wiser reader — including the one question Jeff asks almost everyone he meets Why Jeff’s bookstore friend was counseled to fast from books — and what that revealed about his relationship to scripture How reading together (from team check-ins at ECPA to hosting 75–100 person “Books in Nature” dinners) transforms community Jeff’s next book: The Spirit in the Sky — on music, spirituality, and 17 artists from Paul Simon to Marvin Gaye (Bloomsbury, October 2025) Jeff recorded this conversation the day before his mother’s memorial service, turning to the Psalms and a poetry collection called Joy (edited by Christian Wiman, Yale University Press) as companions in grief. His witness here is as much lived as written. Guest Bio Jeff Crosby is the president and CEO of ECPA (Evangelical Christian Publishers Association) and has worked in bookselling and publishing for more than 40 years — from running a Lagos bookstore near Indiana University to 24 years at InterVarsity Press to leading the trade association of Christian publishing. He is the author of World of Wonders: A Spirituality of Reading (Paraclete Press, 2025) and The Language of the Soul. His writing has appeared in Publishers Weekly, Books & Culture, CRUX Journal, and other publications. He lives in the Chicago area with his wife, author Cindy Crosby.  Resources Mentioned Jeff’s website: jeffreycrosby.netWorld of Wonders: A Spirituality of Reading — Jeff Crosby (Paraclete Press, 2025)The Spirit in the Sky: The Power of Music and Our Search for Graceland — Jeff Crosby (Bloomsbury, October 2025)Every Moment Holy — Douglas McKelveyMarkings — Dag HammarskjöldReading for the Love of God — Jessica Hooten Wilson (Brazos Press)Joy (poetry anthology) — edited by Christian Wiman (Yale University Press)The Meaning of Your Life — Arthur C. BrooksSend us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

    49 min

  7. Apr 20

    Faith, Politics, and the Culture War | Justin Giboney

    What does it look like to be a faithful Christian in the public square without losing your soul in the process? In this conversation, host Rebecca Cooks sits down with Justin Giboney — attorney, ordained minister, political strategist, and co-founder of the AND Campaign — for a candid, thought-provoking dialogue on faith, politics, and moral imagination. Drawing from his book Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around, Giboney challenges Christians to move beyond partisan tribalism, recover the bold example of the Civil Rights generation, and engage culture with truth, justice, and the transforming power of the gospel. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN How Giboney went from knocking on doors in Southwest Atlanta to running campaigns — and what he learned along the wayWhat a “culture war” actually is, where it started, and why the Black church refused to be defined by itWhy fighting against evil doesn’t automatically make you good — and what the Civil Rights generation understood that we’ve largely forgottenWhat “moral imagination” means: the ability to see not just what is, but what ought to be based on God’s character and promisesPractical advice for Christians who feel stuck between candidates — including Giboney’s framework for values-based votingHow to stay engaged when politics feels exhausting — and when it’s actually okay to step backThe Shirley Chisholm story: what moral imagination looks like in action, and why it still has the power to change peopleABOUT OUR GUEST Justin E. Giboney (JD, Vanderbilt) is the co-founder and president of the AND Campaign, a Christian civic organization that equips Christians to engage in politics with the love and truth of Jesus Christ. He is an ordained minister, attorney, and political strategist whose work has appeared in the New York Times and Christianity Today. He is the author of Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around (IVP, 2025) and co-author of Compassion (&) Conviction (IVP, 2020). RESOURCES Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around by Justin Giboney — ivpress.comThe AND Campaign — andcampaign.orgSend us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

    45 min

  8. Apr 13

    Dallas Willard's Vision for Discipleship: Kingdom Apprenticeship | Keas Keasler

    Dallas Willard believed that the aim of God in human history is the formation of a community of loving persons — people apprenticed to Jesus, shaped by his character, and prepared to co-reign with him in eternity. In this episode of The UpWords Podcast, host Dan Hummel sits down with Keas Keasler, author of the first comprehensive academic study of Willard’s theology. Together they trace Willard’s life from Depression-era Missouri to the halls of USC, unpack the philosophical roots of his spiritual formation theology, and ask why his vision for discipleship feels especially urgent in the church today. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN Why Keas Keasler spent seven years researching Dallas Willard — and what he discovered that surprised himThe key biographical facts of Willard’s life: a broken childhood, a pivotal choice between philosophy and seminary, and 47 years at USCHow Willard’s friendship with Richard Foster and a small Quaker church in Southern California helped birth the modern spiritual formation movementWhy Willard chose phenomenology — the study of consciousness — and how it shaped his theology of transformationWhat it means that Willard was a committed metaphysical and epistemic realist — and why that grounds everything he taughtWillard’s vision of humans as co-rulers with God: what it means, what the parable of the pounds has to do with it, and why formation is training for that callingThe famous Willard line: “Grace is not opposed to effort, but to earning” — and the sophisticated theology behind itThe Golden Triangle of spiritual formation: the Holy Spirit, the spiritual disciplines, and the ordinary decisions of daily lifeThe “sanctification gap” that Richard Lovelace identified in the 1970s — and why it has only widened sinceWhy there is a crisis of character in the church today, and what Willard’s vision offers as a remedyGUEST BIO Keas Keasler (PhD, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam) is Associate Professor of Spiritual Theology at Friends University, where he also serves as Program Director of the MA in Christian Spiritual Formation and Leadership. He is a Research Affiliate of the Martin Institute for Christianity and Culture and the Dallas Willard Research Center at Westmont College. An ordained Baptist minister, Keasler has traveled to over forty countries and preached on six continents. RESOURCES & LINKS Kingdom Apprenticeship by Keas Keasler (IVP Academic)Hearing God by Dallas Willard (IVP)Spirit of the Disciplines by Dallas WillardThe Divine Conspiracy by Dallas WillardRenovation of the Heart by Dallas WillardBecoming Dallas Willard by Gary MoonThe Kingdom Among Us by Michael Stewart RobbCelebration of Discipline by Richard FosterConversatio.org – Dallas WSend us Fan Mail CONNECT WITH US Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace. This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House. Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour Edited by Dave Conour

    54 min
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5
out of 5
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About

Each week, we sit down with scholars, authors, and leaders to explore faith, vocation, culture, and what it means to think and live well. For curious Christians and honest seekers. An initiative of SLBF STUDIO at Upper House in Madison, WI. 

Information

  • Creator
    Upper House
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2026
  • Episodes
    186
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The UpWords Podcast
  • Show Website
    The UpWords Podcast

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