Scaling Laws

Lawfare & University of Texas Law School

Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas and Senior Editor at Lawfare, dive into the intersection of AI, innovation policy, and the law through regular interviews with the folks deep in the weeds of developing, regulating, and adopting AI. They also provide regular rapid-response analysis of breaking AI governance news. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. 1D AGO

    Should AI Laws Be Subject To A Higher Standard? The Right to Compute with Kendall Cotton

    Kendall Cotton, Founder and CEO of Montana’s Frontier Institute, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss Montana’s groundbreaking Right to Compute Act and how Montana hopes to protect access to AI and related technologies. We will discuss the history and reach of this Act and why other states may want to follow Montana's lead. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    40 min

  2. 4D AGO

    Why Data Governance Is the Key to AI Biosecurity, with Jassi Pannu and Doni Bloomfield

    Why Data Governance Is the Key to AI Biosecurity, with Jassi Pannu and Doni Bloomfield   Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Jassi Pannu, assistant professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, and Doni Bloomfield, associate professor of law at Fordham Law School, about their proposed framework for governing biological data to reduce AI-enabled biosecurity risks.   The conversation covered the origins of the proposal in the 50th anniversary of the 1975 Asilomar conference on recombinant DNA; the distinction between general-purpose AI models and biology-specific foundation models like genomic language models; the biosecurity threats posed by AI, including uplift of novice actors and raising the ceiling of expert capabilities; the proposed biosecurity data levels (BDL 0-4) framework and how it draws on precedents from biosafety levels and genetic privacy regulation; the challenge of capabilities-based rather than pathogen-based data classification; the institutional and regulatory mechanisms for enforcement, including the role of NIH grant conditions and a proposed mandatory federal regime; international collaboration and the importance of U.S. leadership given that most high-tier data is generated domestically; the relationship between the proposal and open-source biological AI development; and the offense-defense imbalance in biosecurity and the case for mandatory gene synthesis screening.   Mentioned in this episode: Jassi Pannu and Doni Bloomfield et al., "Biological data governance in an age of AI," Science (2026)Jassi Pannu, Doni Bloomfield, et al., "Dual-use capabilities of concern of biological AI models," PLOS Computational Biology (2025)Dario Amodei, "The Adolescence of Technology" (2026)The Genesis Mission Executive Order (November 2025) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    50 min

  3. MAR 21

    Rapid Response Pod: Trump's New AI Framework with Helen Toner & Dean Ball

    On Friday, March 20, the Trump Administration announced a National Policy Framework for AI. White House officials have stressed that they want Congress to act on the framework's recommendations within the year. What this all means for AI policy is an open question that warrants calling in two of the smartest folks in the business: Helen Toner, Interim Executive Director at Georgetown's Center for Security and Emerging Technology (CSET), and Dean Ball, a senior fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation.    This rapid response episode cuts to the chase as everyone makes sense of this important development in the national AI policy conversation.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    25 min

  4. MAR 17

    Is AI a Death Sentence for Civic Institutions?, with Jessica Silbey and Woodrow Hartzog

    Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Woodrow Hartzog, the Andrew R. Randall Professor of Law at Boston University School of Law, and Jessica Silbey, Professor of Law and Honorable Frank R. Kenison Distinguished Scholar in Law at Boston University School of Law, about their new paper "How AI Destroys Institutions," which argues that AI systems threaten to erode the civic institutions that organize democratic society.   The conversation covered the sociological concept of institutions and why they differ from organizations; the idea of technological affordances from science and technology studies; how AI undermines human expertise through both accuracy and inaccuracy; the cognitive offloading problem and whether AI-driven skill atrophy differs from past technological transitions; whether AI-generated decisions can satisfy the legitimacy requirements of the rule of law; the role of reason-giving, contestation, and political accountability in legal institutions; the tension between the paper's sweeping diagnosis and its more incremental prescriptions; and the case for bespoke, institution-specific AI tools over general-purpose deployment. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    53 min

  5. MAR 13

    Can AI Enable Human Agency?, with Tomicah Tillemann

    Tomicah Tillemann, President at Project Liberty Institute, joins the show. Tomicah offers a unique perspective on regulating emerging technology given his time as a venture capitalist and head of policy at Andreessen Horowitz and Haun Ventures. His contemporary focus is on identifying “policy solutions that enable human agency and human flourishing in an AI-powered world.” It’s a tall order that he breaks down with Kevin Frazier, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, Adjunct Research Fellow at the Cato Institute, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    46 min

  6. MAR 10

    Live from Ashby: Taking a Long View on AI Governance with Austin Carson and Caleb Watney

    Kevin Frazier hangs out with Caleb Watney of the Institute for Progress and Austin Carson of SeedAI at the Ashby Workshops to discuss the long-run policy foundations needed for the AI Age. Rather than focusing on near-term regulation, the conversation explores how AI challenges existing assumptions about state capacity, research funding, talent pipelines, and institutional design. Caleb and Austin unpack concepts like meta-science, public compute infrastructure, immigration policy, and congressional expertise—and explain why these “boring” policy areas may matter more for AI outcomes than headline-grabbing rules. The episode also examines how AI policy discourse has evolved in Washington, what lessons policymakers should draw from efforts like the National AI Research Resource, and why many AI governance failures may ultimately be failures of institutions rather than intent. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    58 min

  7. MAR 6

    Scaling Laws x AI Summer: Who Controls the Machine God?

    Alan Rozenshtein, associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota and research director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and senior editor at Lawfare, were joined by Dean Ball, senior fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation and author of the Hyperdimensional newsletter, and Timothy B. Lee, author of the Understanding AI newsletter, for a joint crossover episode of the Scaling Laws and AI Summer podcasts about the escalating dispute between Anthropic and the Pentagon over AI usage restrictions in military contracts. The conversation covered the timeline of the Anthropic-Pentagon dispute and Secretary Hegseth's supply chain risk designation; the legal basis for the designation under 10 U.S.C. § 3252 and whether it was intended to apply to domestic companies; the role of personality and politics in the dispute; OpenAI's competing Pentagon contract and debate over whether its terms actually match Anthropic's red lines; public opinion polling showing bipartisan concern about AI mass surveillance and autonomous weapons; the broader question of what the government-AI industry relationship should look like; the prospect of partial or full nationalization of AI capabilities; and whether frontier AI models are actually decisive for military applications. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    58 min

  8. MAR 3

    In Defense of Optimism with Packy McCormick

    Packy McCormick, founder of Not Boring and Not Boring Capital, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, to discuss the power of narratives in tech, the intersection of investing and policy, and what it means to build frameworks for the future in an age of rapid technological change. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    46 min
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Trailer

4.6
out of 5
24 Ratings

About

Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas and Senior Editor at Lawfare, dive into the intersection of AI, innovation policy, and the law through regular interviews with the folks deep in the weeds of developing, regulating, and adopting AI. They also provide regular rapid-response analysis of breaking AI governance news. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Information

  • Creator
    Lawfare & University of Texas Law School
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    209
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Lawfare
  • Show Website
    Scaling Laws

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