The Arrival of Robotaxis in Chicago Expansion to the Midwest: Waymo is currently mapping Chicago, signaling that robotaxis are officially hitting the Midwest [00:57]. Public Sentiment: * Passengers generally feel excitement about the new technology and are sometimes willing to pay more for the experience [01:57]. Drivers feel anxious, viewing AVs as a direct threat to their jobs and the industry long-term [02:17]. Closing the Price Gap: While robotaxis were once much more expensive than Uber or Lyft, that price gap is closing rapidly, making them a more realistic competitor [03:13]. Legal Concerns and Liability The primary concern for LegalRideshare is how companies will be held accountable when things go wrong [06:02]. The Accountability Gap: In a traditional accident, tort law and insurance policies are well-established. With robotaxis, it is unclear who is negligent when there is no driver [07:01]. Two Potential Legal Paths: Standard Insurance: Treating accidents like any other car crash where the vehicle's insurance covers damages [07:28]. Product Liability: Treating crashes as technology failures or defective products. This path is much more costly to litigate and harder for victims to recover damages from [07:48]. What to Do if Injured by a Robotaxi If you are a passenger, another driver, or a gig worker involved in an accident with a Waymo in Chicago, the speakers recommend the following: Document Everything: Even though there is no human driver, you must call the police to create a formal report and document the scene [09:15]. Gather Evidence: Take photos of the vehicle, the point of collision, and any other involved parties [09:23]. Seek Legal Counsel: Consult with specialists to determine if the claim should be filed against a standard insurance policy or as a product liability claim against Waymo [10:02]. FULL TRANSCRIPTION: JARED HOFFA [00:00:00] Ladies and gentlemen, drivers, gig workers, and everyone in between, welcome to This Week in Ride Share podcast. I'm your host, Jared Hoffa. It is Friday, uh, February 27th, and this week we are talking everything robotaxis, and as always, LegalRideshare breaks it down. [00:00:26] And from LegalRideshare, I'm joined by the co-founder and lead attorney, Bryant Greening. Bryant, happy Friday. BRYANT GREENING[00:00:33] Happy Friday, Jared. Great to be back and excited to talk about robotaxis. There's a lot of big news coming out, uh, nationwide and particularly locally here in Chicago, so I'm excited to get going. JARED HOFFA[00:00:44] Yeah, you know, last time we were talking to Torsten, we ran out of time to talk about this and, you know, it's obviously vital. And just like you said, you know, we're talking about robotaxis specifically today because especially in Illinois, they're mapping. [00:00:57] So, Waymo is approaching Chicago, Illinois. So it's now hitting the Midwest. It is here. So I thought it'd be a good time to discuss the ins and outs, the good and bads, the gray areas of robotaxis, and just help people understand where they're at, where the dangers are, and, you know, really what to expect. And I think a lot of this information is not out yet. Uh, as we saw, I believe yesterday, the Tribune, you know, posted kind of the first article saying, “Hey, they're coming. There's a lot of questions in Springfield.” And so let's — let's dive in. JARED HOFFA[00:01:28] Uh, you know, the first thing is, you know, what do you hear on your end as far as drivers and who you've talked to? What is sort of the current mood about the Waymos as far as passenger drivers? Are you hearing anything in particular? BRYANT GREENING[00:01:39] Yeah, so we talk to drivers and passengers all the time, um, and we have contacts nationwide, so we have our finger on the pulse, I think, in terms of, uh, how people are feeling about this new technology. Um, on the passenger side, it seems like there's a lot of excitement. Seems like people are ready to try the new technology. Um, we've already seen stories where people are willing to actually pay more for the, uh, robo-taxi experience. Um, so, you know, this is, I think, welcomed in — in the rider community. [00:02:11] Um, as it relates to the drivers, it's — it's much more complicated and I think they really see, uh, AVs as a threat to the industry. They see their jobs at risk. Um, and ultimately, the companies, I — I think, have been clear that the long-term goal is to replace drivers with robotaxis and transform ride share into a completely autonomous experience. Uh, I don't think that's going to be anytime in the immediate near future, but long term, that's the goal and — and that's, I think, where drivers are pretty anxious. JARED HOFFA[00:02:51] Yeah, and we've, you know, we've always talked about robotaxis in general, but we are even seeing a shift from novelty to reality. And a lot of this is what you had just talked about. You know, there was an article which I have — I pulled up here from Business Insider that's showcasing, you know, one of the things about Waymo has always been, “Well, it's — it's so much more expensive than, you know, an Uber or Lyft driver,” so, you know, Uber and Lyft drivers are safe. [00:03:13] But this Business Insider article from just a couple weeks ago is showing that gap is seriously closing already. Uh, and so what we're seeing now is, like you said, it seems like the passenger side is very excited, um, but now it's not just excitement on a novelty; it's excitement on “This is actually becoming affordable,” or soon to be affordable. And so what does that mean for drivers now? Um, so we're seeing this sort of shift, um, and we're seeing frustrations and rightfully so. [00:03:45] You know, and as usual, um, you know, a lot of the big ride share companies are being not too transparent about their ultimate goals, uh, on what they — what they want to do. So, uh, I understand, you know, in terms of the vibe of — of really what's happening with robotaxis, there's — there's frustration, there's uncertainty, and then on — on the other side, there's excitement, right? BRYANT GREENING[00:04:03] Yeah, we'll — we'll see how quickly things change, but ultimately, I — I think that this excitement on the consumer base is going to be driving the ride share companies' decisions. Uh, not to mention them being extremely cost-effective when the technology is — is ultimately perfected. If they don't have to pay the driver and they can have a vehicle on the road all the time, perhaps an electric vehicle who they don't have to gas up all the time, it's going to be much cheaper, uh, to put rides, you know, on the streets to complete those rides for the passengers. And, uh, I think the companies see a real opportunity to pad their pockets by getting rid of a lot of the operating costs while perhaps even making a cheaper experience for the passengers. So the drivers are going to be the ones that get squeezed out while the companies are making a ton of money and — and the passengers are perhaps having an even cheaper experience. JARED HOFFA[00:04:56] Yeah, and we're, you know, one thing — one of the things we're really seeing right now, too, is, you know, there seems to be a lot of gray areas in legal issues and again, uncertainty, you know, just in general about how these operate. Uh, and you and I have discussed in length about, you know, the idea of, again, disrupting the ride share market, although this time there is no course-correcting with the human. If something goes wrong, it really goes wrong. Uh, you know, I'm sure you saw the article — I think this came out a week or two ago, maybe even less — where they're now hiring gig workers to shut the doors for Waymos because they're not shutting or opening them because they're not doing it. Uh, we — we just saw recently that New York is straight up refusing robotaxis. [00:05:47] So my question to you is, at this moment, what are the obvious, you know, gray areas or legal issues just in general over the whole robo-taxi Waymo experience? BRYANT GREENING[00:05:55] Well, the biggest one that we're concerned about is safety and what happens when things do go wrong. So as with any technology, any transportation, there are going to be events, there are going to be accidents, there's going to be injuries, there's going to be fatalities. It's a fact of life. Um, I don't care how safe these vehicles are, I don't care if they're quote-unquote “perfect” sometime down the line, things happen. [00:06:21] And when these — these tragedies and casualties and bodily injuries occur, we want to know how are the companies going to be held accountable. In a traditional car accident, we — we know exactly what happens. We know the tort law, uh, in place is going to make this an insurance claim where the at-fault, uh, driver, um, has to pay for the damages, usually through their insurance policy, where people's medical bills get covered, people's lost wages get covered, pain and suffering is taken care of. [00:07:01] In these situations, there is no driver there. We — we don't know exactly who is going to be found negligent or responsible for a crash. And that question is really very important because if we don't know who to hold accountable, then we don't know how people who are injured are going to be made whole. Um, there are two paths that I really see, uh, in the future and we're going to have to choose one. [00:07:22] One: are we going to treat these accidents just like every other car accident and have these vehicles insured, um, you know, through a regular insurance policy, and if they are involved in an accident, then the — the injured person is just going to be able to go down that path as we all know? [00:07:39] Alternatively: are these going to be treated as different types of eve
