Beyond AI: Wisdom at Work (formerly Qonversations)

Brian Gorman, Host
  • 5.0 (11)
  • Management
  • Updated Weekly

Beyond AI: Wisdom at Work explores what leaders need to see, ask, and own as artificial intelligence reshapes work, decisions, culture, trust, and human value. Formerly Qonversations, the podcast continues Brian Gorman’s long-running exploration of leadership, change, and the future of work—now with a sharper focus on the age of AI. This is not a show about chasing tools or predicting the next technology trend. It is about the human work AI makes more urgent: discernment, accountability, governance, ethical judgment, workforce trust, and wise decision-making. Each episode features thoughtful conversations with leaders, thinkers, practitioners, and change-makers who are looking beyond AI hype to what work is becoming—and what leadership must become in response. For leaders, founders, executives, coaches, consultants, HR professionals, and anyone asking how AI can help make work more human, not less.

  1. 4d ago

    AI Adoption is a Human Change Journey

    Artificial intelligence may be moving faster than any technology we have seen before. But AI adoption is still, at its core, a human change journey. In this episode, Brian Gorman speaks with Sue Bethanis, founder of Mariposa Leadership, about what it takes to lead wisely as organizations, teams, and knowledge workers learn to partner with AI. Sue brings a grounded, deeply human perspective to the conversation. She frames AI not as something to resist or blindly embrace, but as a “robot” partner that requires human leadership, discernment, and oversight. As she puts it, the human still belongs at the front of the tandem bike. Brian and Sue explore Sue’s framework for AI adoption: role, mindset, and practices. Leaders need to see themselves as change agents, expect and embrace change rather than simply endure it, and increase empathy and inspiration in their day-to-day leadership. This conversation goes beyond traditional change management. Brian raises the often-overlooked role of grief in change, especially when people must let go of tools, skills, identities, or ways of working that once defined their value. Together, Brian and Sue examine why AI change cannot be managed as a one-time journey from here to there. This is ongoing, uncertain, and deeply human work. This episode is for leaders, coaches, consultants, and knowledge workers who are asking how to become more AI-capable without rushing people, diminishing trust, or treating human beings as obstacles to efficiency. In this episode: Why AI adoption should be led as human-centered changeWhat it means for leaders to act as change agents and wayfinders in an AI environmentWhy empathy, experimentation, trust, and practice matter more than forced complianceHow to help people move through resistance, grief, letting go, and unlearningWhy the human must remain at the front of the tandem bike About Sue Bethanis Susan J. Bethanis, Ed.D., is the CEO and Founder of Mariposa Leadership, Inc., a San Francisco-based executive coaching firm where she and her 15-person team have spent 30 years helping high-tech leaders raise their game. Sue is the author of Leadership Chronicles of a Corporate Sage (Kaplan Publishing, 2004) and hosts WiseTalk, a monthly leadership podcast, and WiseSpace, a Zoom coaching community. Having guided leaders through the dot-com crash, the Great Recession, and the COVID pivot to hybrid work, Sue now helps executives navigate the AI economy through keynotes, strategy offsites, and one-on-one coaching. Recent clients include C-level executives and VPs at Amazon, Databricks, Intel, Intuit, Microsoft, MongoDB, PayPal, and Zynga. Sue holds an Ed.D. from the University of San Francisco and an M.A. from Stanford University. She lives in San Francisco and Kihei, Maui. About Brian Gorman Brian Gorman is an executive advisor, author, speaker, coach, and host of Beyond AI: Wisdom at Work. He works at the intersection of artificial intelligence and human wisdom, helping CEOs, founders, boards, and senior leadership teams think clearly about AI, change, decision-making, culture, trust, and the future of work. His book, Leading into the Age of Wisdom: Reimagining the Future of Work, explores how leaders can move beyond intelligence alone and bring deeper wisdom to the decisions shaping people, organizations, and society. Continue the Conversation If anything you hear in this podcast sparks a conversation you want to have or a question you want to explore, reach out. Email: sueb@mariposaleadership.com Website: www.mariposaleadership.com  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suebethanis/   Email: Brian@TransformingLives.Coach Phone: +1 917.653.5198 Website: TransformingLives.Coach

    41 min

  2. Jul 2

    No Playbook for the AI Era

    AI is not just changing the tools we use. It is changing the nature of change itself. In this inaugural episode of Beyond AI: Wisdom at Work, Brian Gorman is joined by Bill Kirst, change architect and author of Leading Change in the Era of AI. Together, they explore why traditional change management models are no longer enough in a workplace increasingly shaped by AI, automation, agents, and non-linear complexity. Bill explains why tools like ChatGPT and Claude are not simply faster versions of old technology. They are non-deterministic systems, producing variable responses and completing patterns in ways that can feel intelligent without necessarily carrying understanding, judgment, or wisdom. The conversation moves from change management into wayfinding: how leaders move when there is no clear map, no stable playbook, and no guarantee that yesterday’s models will fit tomorrow’s work. Bill and Brian also discuss the growing presence of AI agents in organizational life, the possibility of AI appearing on org charts, and the oversight questions that come with tools capable of taking increasingly human-like actions. At the heart of the episode is a leadership challenge. As AI reshapes decisions, workflows, relationships, and accountability, leaders must strengthen the human capacities technology cannot replace. Intuition. Discernment. Creativity. Emotional intelligence. The ability to notice when something is not right. Bill also challenges leaders to expand how they learn, recommending science fiction, biography, autobiography, creativity, and playfulness as more useful preparation for the AI era than another stack of traditional business books. This is a conversation about AI, but it is not a technology conversation. It is about what leaders must unlearn, relearn, and become as change itself changes. About Bill Bill Kirst is a Change Architect, 2x author, poet, keynote speaker, developmental editor, and host of the Coffee & Change podcast. He works at the intersection of artificial intelligence, organizational transformation, and human potential, helping leaders and organizations navigate change with greater clarity, curiosity, confidence, and empathy. His book, Leading Change in the Era of AI, explores how artificial intelligence is reshaping leadership, work, and the human experience. Drawing on more than two decades of leading enterprise transformation, Bill offers a practical and deeply human perspective on helping people adapt, thrive, and lead with purpose in an age of accelerating technological change. Through his writing, speaking, and conversations with innovators, executives, researchers, and creators, Bill explores one enduring question: How can we ensure AI elevates our humanity rather than diminishes it? His work is guided by a simple belief: the future of leadership will be defined not only by intelligence, but by our capacity for empathy at scale. About Brian Brian Gorman is an executive advisor, author, speaker, coach, and host of Beyond AI: Wisdom at Work. He works at the intersection of artificial intelligence and human wisdom, helping CEOs, founders, boards, and senior leadership teams think clearly about AI, change, decision-making, culture, trust, and the future of work. His book, Leading into the Age of Wisdom: Reimagining the Future of Work, explores how leaders can move beyond intelligence alone and bring deeper wisdom to the decisions shaping people, organizations, and society. Continue the Conversation with Bill If something from this episode sparks a new idea, challenges your thinking, or inspires a conversation, Bill would love to hear from you. He's easily reachable on LinkedIn and Substack. Continue the Conversation with Brian If anything you hear in this podcast sparks a conversation you want to have or a question you want to explore, reach out. Email: Brian@TransformingLives.Coach Phone: +1 917.653.5198 Website: TransformingLives.Coach

    1 min

  3. Jun 26

    The Gap Between Leadership Intent and Employee Experience

    Leaders often believe they are investing in their people. Employees often experience something very different. In this episode of Qonversations, Brian Gorman speaks with Keith Metcalfe, President of ACORN, a software and technology company focused on learning, performance, and capability development. Together, they explore the gap between leadership intent and employee experience, especially when it comes to feedback, performance reviews, career growth, and the everyday support people need to progress in their work. Keith brings a practical lens to a problem many organizations struggle to solve. Leaders may say they want to develop people, but without clear role definitions, meaningful competency models, specific feedback, and usable development plans, that intent rarely translates into employee experience. The result is familiar: performance reviews that feel unfair, development conversations that go nowhere, and employees who are left unclear about what growth actually looks like. The conversation addresses AI, not as a replacement for human leadership, but as a tool that can make previously difficult development practices more achievable. Keith explains how ACORN uses AI to help organizations create competency-based development plans and provide leaders with the language and structure needed for better conversations. But technology alone is not enough. Brian and Keith discuss why AI is also creating discomfort for leaders. As information becomes more available and employees become more capable, traditional hierarchy carries less weight. Leaders are being pushed back toward the fundamentals: clarity, humility, servant leadership, experimentation, and meaningful support for the people they lead. This episode is a conversation about development, but it is also a conversation about leadership maturity. AI may help automate parts of the process. It may make better systems possible. But the deeper question remains human. Are leaders willing to create the conditions where people can actually grow? The 2026 State of Learning for AI Fluency report is available here.

    33 min

  4. Jun 19

    Name Change: Qonversations is Becoming Beyond AI: Wisdom at Work

    After more than 170 episodes as Qonversations, this podcast is entering its next chapter. Beginning with the July 2, 2026 release, the show will become Beyond AI: Wisdom at Work. The new name reflects the direction the conversations have been moving for some time: beyond the tools, hype, and noise of artificial intelligence, and into the deeper human questions AI is raising for leaders, organizations, and the future of work. This is still the same podcast, hosted by Brian Gorman. The focus remains on thoughtful, grounded conversations with leaders, thinkers, practitioners, and change-makers. What is changing is the frame. Beyond AI: Wisdom at Work will clearly explore the intersection of AI, leadership, culture, trust, decision-making, ethics, workforce transformation, and human wisdom. No action is needed from current subscribers. Your subscription will not be disrupted. Beginning July 2, the podcast will simply appear under the new name: Beyond AI: Wisdom at Work. If something you hear sparks a conversation you want to have, Brian would welcome hearing from you.

    2 min

  5. Jun 18

    172: Don't Let Technology Be the Leader

    AI is already changing the way we work. The question is no longer whether leaders will adopt it. The question is whether they will lead it. In this episode of Qonversations, Brian talks with Jim Spignardo, Director of Cloud Strategy and AI Enablement at ProArc, about why AI implementation is not primarily a technology challenge. It is a leadership challenge. Too often, organizations measure AI adoption by activity: who is using it, how often, and how quickly. But usage is not the same as value. Without a clear purpose, AI can create fear, shallow adoption, and dehumanizing pressure instead of better work. Brian and Jim explore what leaders need to define before the tools take over. What is AI for? Is it here to reduce headcount, increase speed, eliminate dull work, strengthen collaboration, or expand human creativity? Those choices shape culture, trust, and the future of work. The conversation also turns to education, where AI is already challenging assumptions about learning, intelligence, evaluation, and preparation for a changing workplace. At the center is the distinction between intelligence and wisdom, and the need for discernment and critical thinking as AI becomes more capable. AI can make work more human and humane, or it can deepen practices that reduce people to metrics. The tools will not decide which path we take. Leaders will. Don’t let AI lead. Lead AI.

    27 min

  6. Jun 11

    171: Into the Fog: AI and Leadership

    In a world obsessed with speed, certainty, and fast answers, leadership often happens somewhere else entirely. In the fog. In this episode of Qonversations, Brian Gorman is joined by Pete Behrens, author of Into the Fog: Leadership Stories from the Edge of Uncertainty, for a conversation about leading when the path forward is unclear. Pete uses “fog” as a metaphor for the ambiguity and complexity leaders face when old answers no longer fit and new ones have not yet emerged. Brian and Pete explore how artificial intelligence is intensifying that fog. AI increases the pressure to move faster, decide sooner, and appear more certain. Yet the deeper leadership challenge may be slowing down enough to ask better questions, notice what is changing, and resist the temptation to perform confidence when presence, humility, and discernment are needed. A central theme is the “messy middle” between decision and destination. Leaders often announce change and expect adoption. Real leadership is often shown after the decision, when people are confused, resisting, grieving, adapting, and trying to make sense of what comes next. The episode closes with a powerful distinction. Being a leader is not the same as practicing leadership. A title may grant authority, but leadership is a choice available at every level, especially when the way forward is unclear.

    29 min

  7. Jun 4

    170: Practical AI

    AI is not just changing enterprise strategy. It is changing the daily experience of work. In this episode of Qonversations, David Dean, AI technologist, practitioner, and author of An Inbox Between Us, joins Brian Gorman to explore what it means to use AI wisely in real-world settings. David brings a practical behavioral lens to AI. He explains that every organization has an official system of processes, roles, and documentation, and an unofficial system revealed in inboxes, chat threads, meetings, workarounds, and judgment calls. AI does not enter a blank slate. It reflects the behaviors already present. That makes AI implementation a leadership issue, not just a technology issue. Used well, AI can create breathing room, surface patterns, reduce backlog, and support better work. Used poorly, it can accelerate confusion, mistrust, and dysfunction. This conversation is not only for executives in large organizations. It is equally relevant for solopreneurs, individual contributors, and anyone trying to use AI more thoughtfully. The question is not simply, “What can AI do?” It is, “What human work should AI support, and where must judgment remain ours?” This is practical AI. Not replacement, not hype, not fear, but augmentation grounded in trust, context, and human wisdom.

    29 min

  8. May 28

    169: Thriving in the Time of AI

    AI is accelerating capability. But what if the real challenge is learning how to thrive alongside it? In this episode of Qonversations, Fred Marshall joins Brian Gorman to explore a question many leaders are only beginning to confront. How do we integrate artificial intelligence into our lives and work without losing ourselves in the process? Fred, author of Thrive: The Antidote to Future Shock, introduces a practical and deeply human approach to navigating rapid technological change. Rather than treating AI as a replacement for human thinking, he frames it as a strategic partner, one that can help reduce noise, manage complexity, and create more space for what matters most. Together, Brian and Fred explore the difference between intelligence and wisdom, why innovation is often less about invention than remixing what already exists, and how leaders can avoid being overwhelmed by accelerating inputs and competing demands. They also discuss Fred’s concept of symbiotic intelligence — the emerging partnership between human judgment and AI capability — and why the most important leadership question may no longer be what AI can do, but what humans must continue to do. If AI can increasingly think with us, what becomes essential for us to protect, strengthen, and cultivate as humans?

    40 min
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5
out of 5
11 Ratings

About

Beyond AI: Wisdom at Work explores what leaders need to see, ask, and own as artificial intelligence reshapes work, decisions, culture, trust, and human value. Formerly Qonversations, the podcast continues Brian Gorman’s long-running exploration of leadership, change, and the future of work—now with a sharper focus on the age of AI. This is not a show about chasing tools or predicting the next technology trend. It is about the human work AI makes more urgent: discernment, accountability, governance, ethical judgment, workforce trust, and wise decision-making. Each episode features thoughtful conversations with leaders, thinkers, practitioners, and change-makers who are looking beyond AI hype to what work is becoming—and what leadership must become in response. For leaders, founders, executives, coaches, consultants, HR professionals, and anyone asking how AI can help make work more human, not less.

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