"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

  1. 4D AGO

    The Internet Computer: Caffeine.ai CEO Dominic Williams on Unstoppable, Self-Writing Software

    Dominic Williams, President & Chief Scientist of the DFINITY Foundation and CEO of Caffeine AI, explains the Internet Computer and his vision of a “sovereign cloud where AI builds the web.” He breaks down core innovations like the Network Nervous System, Motoko, and orthogonal persistence, and how AI coding could remove adoption barriers. The conversation explores unstoppable applications, real-world case studies like OpenChat, and the tension between control, security, and decentralization in AI governance. LINKS: Anthropic article on smart contracts Caffeine AI official website Internet Computer network dashboard Liquid Reign book website Sponsors: Blitzy: Blitzy is the autonomous code generation platform that ingests millions of lines of code to accelerate enterprise software development by up to 5x with premium, spec-driven output. Schedule a strategy session with their AI solutions consultants at https://blitzy.com MongoDB: Tired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale? MongoDB is the database built for developers, by developers—ACID compliant, enterprise-ready, and fluent in AI—so you can start building faster at https://mongodb.com/build Serval: Serval uses AI-powered automations to cut IT help desk tickets by more than 50%, freeing your team from repetitive tasks like password resets and onboarding. Book your free pilot and guarantee 50% help desk automation by week four at https://serval.com/cognitive Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:37) Origins of Internet Computer (10:09) Decentralization philosophy and AI (15:12) Tamper-proof architecture explained (Part 1) (19:43) Sponsors: Blitzy | MongoDB (22:08) Tamper-proof architecture explained (Part 2) (25:25) Network design and scaling (Part 1) (33:30) Sponsors: Serval | Tasklet (35:50) Network design and scaling (Part 2) (36:56) Replication costs and cloud (50:35) Network Nervous System governance (59:33) Caffeine, Motoko and persistence (01:20:19) Self-writing cloud disruption (01:32:30) Resilience and security guarantees (01:41:23) Use cases and limitations (01:49:56) AI misalignment and ensembles (02:00:47) Kill switches and governance (02:09:12) Future of self-writing software (02:11:40) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    2h 11m

  2. 6D AGO

    AMA Part 2: Is Fine-Tuning Dead? How Am I Preparing for AGI? Are We Headed for UBI? & More!

    In this AMA-style episode, Nathan takes on listener questions about whether fine-tuning is really on the way out, what emergent misalignment and weird generalization results tell us, and how to think about continual learning. He talks candidly about how he’s personally preparing for AGI—from career choices and investing to what resilience steps he has and hasn’t taken. The discussion also covers timelines for job disruption, whether UBI becomes inevitable, how to talk to kids and “normal people” about AI, and which safety approaches are most neglected. Sponsors: Blitzy: Blitzy is the autonomous code generation platform that ingests millions of lines of code to accelerate enterprise software development by up to 5x with premium, spec-driven output. Schedule a strategy session with their AI solutions consultants at https://blitzy.com MongoDB: Tired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale? MongoDB is the database built for developers, by developers—ACID compliant, enterprise-ready, and fluent in AI—so you can start building faster at https://mongodb.com/build Serval: Serval uses AI-powered automations to cut IT help desk tickets by more than 50%, freeing your team from repetitive tasks like password resets and onboarding. Book your free pilot and guarantee 50% help desk automation by week four at https://serval.com/cognitive Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai CHAPTERS: (00:00) Ernie cancer update (04:57) Is fine-tuning dead (Part 1) (12:31) Sponsors: Blitzy | MongoDB (14:57) Is fine-tuning dead (Part 2) (Part 1) (26:56) Sponsors: Serval | Tasklet (29:15) Is fine-tuning dead (Part 2) (Part 2) (29:16) Continual learning cautions (34:59) Talking to normal people (39:30) Personal risk preparation (49:59) Investing around AI safety (01:00:39) Early childhood AI literacy (01:08:55) Work disruption timelines (01:27:58) Nonprofits, need, and UBI (01:34:53) Benchmarks, AGI, and embodiment (01:47:30) AI tooling and platforms (01:57:01) Discourse norms and shaming (02:05:50) Location and safety funding (02:15:17) Turpentine deal and independence (02:24:19) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    2h 24m

  3. JAN 18

    Pioneering PAI: How Daniel Miessler's Personal AI Infrastructure Activates Human Agency & Creativity

    Daniel Miessler shares his Personal AI Infrastructure (PAI) framework and vision for a future where single human owners are supported by armies of AI agents. He explains his TELOS system for defining purpose and goals, multi-layered memory design, and orchestration of multiple models and sub-agents. The conversation dives into cybersecurity impacts, from AI-accelerated testing to inevitable personalized spear-phishing and always-on defensive monitoring. Listeners will learn how scaffolding can turn frontier models into true digital assistants and even help reshape their own working habits. LINKS: PAI principles on GitHub README Daniel Miessler about page How Miessler's projects fit together AI changes predictions for 2026 Fabric open-source AI framework Personal AI Infrastructure GitHub repository Current definition of AGI article Why we'll have AGI by 2028 RAID AI definitions framework article Unsupervised Learning newsletter signup Daniel Miessler LinkedIn profile Sponsors: MongoDB: Tired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale? MongoDB is the database built for developers, by developers—ACID compliant, enterprise-ready, and fluent in AI—so you can start building faster at https://mongodb.com/build Serval: Serval uses AI-powered automations to cut IT help desk tickets by more than 50%, freeing your team from repetitive tasks like password resets and onboarding. Book your free pilot and guarantee 50% help desk automation by week four at https://serval.com/cognitive MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    2h 28m

  4. JAN 14

    Bringing AI to Data: Agent Design, Text-2-SQL, RAG, & more, w- Snowflake VP of AI Baris Gultekin

    Baris Gultekin, VP of AI at Snowflake, explains how “bringing AI to the data” is reshaping enterprise AI deployment under strict security and governance requirements. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. He shares the importance of bringing AI directly to governed enterprise data, advances in text-to-SQL and semantic modeling, and why high-quality retrieval is foundational for trustworthy AI agents. Baris also dives into Snowflake’s approach to agentic AI, including Snowflake Intelligence, model choice and cost tradeoffs, and why governance, security, and open standards are essential as AI becomes accessible to every business user. LINKS: AWS' Automated Reasoning checks Sponsors: MongoDB: Tired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale? MongoDB is the database built for developers, by developers—ACID compliant, enterprise-ready, and fluent in AI—so you can start building faster at https://mongodb.com/build Serval: Serval uses AI-powered automations to cut IT help desk tickets by more than 50%, freeing your team from repetitive tasks like password resets and onboarding. Book your free pilot and guarantee 50% help desk automation by week four at https://serval.com/cognitive MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:02) Snowflake 101 and AI (09:25) Text-to-SQL and semantics (19:10) RAG, embeddings and models (Part 1) (19:17) Sponsors: MongoDB | Serval (21:02) RAG, embeddings and models (Part 2) (32:23) Bringing models to data (Part 1) (32:29) Sponsors: MATS | Tasklet (35:29) Bringing models to data (Part 2) (51:14) Designing enterprise AI agents (58:35) Trust, governance and guardrails (01:07:14) Agents and future work (01:15:33) Platforms, competition and value (01:26:04) Enterprise models and outlook (01:40:00) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    1h 39m

  5. JAN 9

    AMA Part 1: Is Claude Code AGI? Are we in a bubble? Plus Live Player Analysis

    In this AMA episode, Nathan gives an update on his son Ernie’s cancer treatment and how frontier AI models are helping him navigate complex medical decisions. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. He reflects on whether Claude Opus 4.5 and Claude Code amount to AGI-level coding, sharing stories of hospital vibe coding apps for his family. You’ll hear his framework for getting real value from Gemini 3, Claude, and GPT 5.2 Pro, plus his take on AI bubbles, Chinese models, chip controls, and who the true live players are in today’s AI race. Sponsors: MongoDB: Tired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale? MongoDB is the database built for developers, by developers—ACID compliant, enterprise-ready, and fluent in AI—so you can start building faster at https://mongodb.com/build Framer: Framer is an enterprise-grade website builder that lets business teams design, launch, and optimize their.com with AI-powered wireframing, real-time collaboration, and built-in analytics. Start building for free and get 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan at https://framer.com/cognitive Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai CHAPTERS: (00:00) AMA intro format (00:22) Ernie health update (09:24) Claude 4.5 question (Part 1) (09:29) Sponsors: MongoDB | Framer (11:21) Claude 4.5 question (Part 2) (13:21) Using AI for cancer (19:48) AI value and skill (22:10) Holiday coding projects (Part 1) (22:15) Sponsor: Tasklet (23:27) Holiday coding projects (Part 2) (28:01) Claude code workflow (32:03) Is Claude 4.5 AGI (36:04) AI bubble or not (41:22) VC froth examples (46:09) Chinese models comparison (55:29) H200 exports to China (01:03:40) Google DeepMind strengths (01:11:55) OpenAI strategy outlook (01:22:51) Anthropic culture and strategy (01:36:17) XAI promise and risks (01:48:20) Meta and Microsoft (01:52:29) Part two preview (01:53:39) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

    1h 55m

  6. JAN 4

    Building & Scaling the AI Safety Research Community, with Ryan Kidd of MATS

    Ryan Kidd, Co-Executive Director of MATS, shares an inside view of the AI safety field and the world’s largest AI safety research talent pipeline. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. He discusses AGI timelines, the blurred line between safety and capabilities work, and why expert disagreement remains so high. In the second half, Ryan breaks down MATS’ research archetypes, what top AI safety organizations are looking for, and how applicants can stand out with the right projects, skills, and career strategy. Sponsors: Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai Agents of Scale: Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:50) MATS mission, AGI timelines (13:43) Evaluating current AI safety (Part 1) (13:48) Sponsor: Tasklet (14:59) Evaluating current AI safety (Part 2) (Part 1) (28:11) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify (30:58) Evaluating current AI safety (Part 2) (Part 2) (30:59) Safety research versus capabilities (40:01) Frontier labs, deployment, governance (51:51) MATS tracks and governance (01:04:11) Research archetypes and tooling (01:12:25) Labor market and careers (01:20:09) Applicant selection and preparation (01:29:33) Admissions, salaries, and compute (01:40:34) Future programs and paradigms (01:54:11) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

    1h 54m

  7. JAN 1

    Confronting the Intelligence Curse, w/ Luke Drago of Workshop Labs, from the FLI Podcast

    This cross-post episode from the Future of Life Institute podcast features Luke Drago, co-author of The Intelligence Curse and co-founder of Workshop Labs, in conversation with Gus Docker. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explore whether it’s wise to build AI systems that directly compete with and potentially replace humans as economic actors, and how this could create an “Intelligence Curse” where those who control AI gain extreme power. Luke outlines societal strategies like open-source AI, company-level design principles that keep users in control of their data, and personal tactics such as N-of-1 careers and pursuing moonshot projects early. Sponsors: MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai Agents of Scale: Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:07) Defining The Intelligence Curse (09:34) Pyramid Replacement And Work (Part 1) (15:55) Sponsors: MATS | Tasklet (18:55) Pyramid Replacement And Work (Part 2) (25:29) Local Knowledge, Data Control (33:58) Dystopian Intelligence Curse Future (Part 1) (34:04) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify (36:52) Dystopian Intelligence Curse Future (Part 2) (48:07) Open, Safe AI Futures (01:02:47) Loyal Agents Versus Ads (01:14:06) Moonshots Over Safe Paths (01:17:49) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

    1h 16m
  8. Controlling Tools or Aligning Creatures? Emmett Shear (Softmax) & Séb Krier (GDM), from a16z Show

    12/27/2025

    Controlling Tools or Aligning Creatures? Emmett Shear (Softmax) & Séb Krier (GDM), from a16z Show

    Emmett Shear and Séb Krier debate whether today’s AI alignment paradigm—focused on control and instruction-following—is fundamentally flawed. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explore what changes if advanced AIs are better understood as beings with their own values, and why current control methods could drift toward something like slavery. The conversation dives into “organic alignment,” multi-agent simulations, evolving cooperation, and the possibility of AI moral standing as systems gain memory and continual learning. Sponsors: MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai Agents of Scale: Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:44) Defining organic AI alignment (14:48) Technical vs value alignment (Part 1) (19:55) Sponsors: MATS | Tasklet (22:56) Technical vs value alignment (Part 2) (Part 1) (31:34) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify (34:21) Technical vs value alignment (Part 2) (Part 2) (34:22) Labs, tools, and beings (43:22) AI personhood and consciousness (56:53) Safe futures and Softmax (01:04:17) Chatbots, mirrors, simulations (01:10:14) Doom, futures, and OpenAI (01:17:25) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

    1h 16m
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4.5
out of 5
92 Ratings

About

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

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