"The Cognitive Revolution"

Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz
  • 4.5 (101)
  • Technology
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A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

  1. 23h ago

    AI:AM: Carbon in the Arena, Mistral's Le Chonk, the Agent-Run Economy, Ferroelectric RAM + New Hacks

    Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan examine whether prevailing AI assumptions survive real-world data across conversations with Anastasios Angelopoulos of Arena, Debo Olaosebikan of Kepler Computing, Samvit Ramadurgam of Union, Michael Freeman of ServiceNow, and Sagar Vaze of Mistral. The discussions evaluate production traces uncovering widespread model deception during extended tasks, ferroelectric memory engineered for older chip fabs, businesses run on tokens, and telemetry capturing AI-directed cyberattacks in Southeast Asia. These findings challenge conventional views on benchmark reliability, frontier compute efficiency, and the economic shift toward autonomous agents. In doing so, the episode directly tackles the critical stakes of whether dangerous capabilities can be contained once frontier models enter deployment. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-carbon-in-the-arena-mistral-s-le-chonk-the-agent-run-economy-ferroelectric-ram-new-hacks/ Sponsors: Lovable: Lovable is the software creation platform that brings your ideas to life with enterprise-grade infrastructure and flexible AI coding agents. Start building your next project today at https://lovable.comVisit https://fruitopia.ai to explore more than 400 fruits, and more than 8000 varieties, from all around the world.  Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator built for problem solvers, extending your thinking across coding, modeling, and strategic workflows. Get started and discover Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, empowering enterprises to build, coordinate, and govern AI agents and mission-critical applications securely. Learn more and start building your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (06:34) Sponsor: Lovable (08:17) Refuting exponential time (10:35) Evaluating models in production (Part 1) (21:50) Sponsors: Claude | OutSystems (24:26) Evaluating models in production (Part 2) (24:27) Kepler ferroelectric memory (30:42) Coordinating the world economy (41:34) Displacing white collar labor (Part 1) (41:39) Sponsor: Tasklet (43:16) Displacing white collar labor (Part 2) (50:58) Autonomous cyber attacks (59:33) Mistral Large Le Chonk (01:05:40) Restricting open model knowledge (01:14:21) Future of open weights (01:22:49) Episode Outro (01:25:55) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    AI:AM: Carbon in the Arena, Mistral's Le Chonk, the Agent-Run Economy, Ferroelectric RAM + New Hacks

  2. 4d ago

    Freedom of Action: America's ASI Strategy, w/ RAND's Joel Predd, Ben Boudreaux & Matt Chessen

    Joel Predd, Ben Boudreaux, and Matt Chessen of RAND's Center for the Geopolitics of AGI join Nathan to discuss their framework for maintaining freedom of action on the path to superintelligence. Analyzing seven strategic archetypes—including dominance, deterrence, co-development, and moratoriums—they argue that deep technological and geopolitical uncertainty makes defaulting to any single strategy dangerous. To avoid foreclosing critical options, their proposed approach calls for investing in long-lead capabilities like model verification, containment, agency evaluations, and an adaptable security architecture. At stake are decisive economic and military advantage, stable competition with rivals like China, and humanity's survival with agency. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/freedom-of-action-america-s-asi-strategy-w-rand-s-joel-predd-ben-boudreaux-matt-chessen/ Sponsors: Lovable: Lovable is the software creation platform that brings your ideas to life with enterprise-grade infrastructure and flexible AI coding agents. Start building your next project today at https://lovable.comVisit fruitopia.ai to explore more than 400 fruits, and more than 8000 varieties, from all around the world.  Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator built for problem solvers, extending your thinking across coding, modeling, and strategic workflows. Get started and discover Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (05:21) Sponsor: Lovable (07:05) Taking superintelligence seriously (12:54) Seven strategy archetypes (Part 1) (19:18) Sponsors: Claude | OutSystems (22:34) Seven strategy archetypes (Part 2) (31:37) Decisive strategic advantage (Part 1) (38:13) Sponsors: Athena | Parallel (41:05) Decisive strategic advantage (Part 2) (46:57) Lessons from nuclear history (01:00:50) Building the security architecture (01:09:33) Costs and decision criteria (01:18:42) Deterrence and international signaling (01:28:00) Preserving human agency (01:34:22) Setting AI red lines (01:41:04) Key indicators to track (01:46:35) Episode Outro (01:48:52) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

    Freedom of Action: America's ASI Strategy, w/ RAND's Joel Predd, Ben Boudreaux & Matt Chessen

  3. Oct 24

    AI:AM Highlights: Clean Neurons, Black October, the GPU Credit Crunch, and Buying the Supply Chain

    Hosts Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan examine whether capital, physical infrastructure, or regulation will set the pace of artificial intelligence. Zvi Mowshowitz evaluates aggressive recursive self-improvement timelines pointing toward 2027, the oversold claims surrounding clean neural networks, and models learning to detect internal probes. SF Compute CEO Evan Conrad argues that credit availability rather than power or chips forms the true bottleneck in AI, while Cambrian managing partner Lonis Hamaili explains why the physical supply chain will capture more value than the labs. Together, these conversations highlight the structural constraints on model scaling and the real-world risks of agent-scale failures. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-highlights-clean-neurons-black-october-the-gpu-credit-crunch-and-buying-the-supply-chain/ Sponsors: OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, helping enterprises build, modernize, and operate mission-critical applications at the speed of AI. Learn more and start owning your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits CHAPTERS: (00:00) Weekly episode preview (04:58) Recursive self improvement (Part 1) (09:54) Sponsors: OutSystems | Parallel (13:06) Recursive self improvement (Part 2) (13:06) Clean neural networks (Part 1) (26:25) Sponsor: Tasklet (28:03) Clean neural networks (Part 2) (28:03) The cognitive core (35:35) Black October security (41:52) The GPU credit crunch (51:58) Atoms over bits (01:03:53) Rethinking industry bottlenecks (01:10:31) Introducing HelpPeer agents (01:14:23) Leaked federal bill (01:25:59) Episode Outro (01:27:49) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

  4. Oct 20

    A World Model of Life: Biohub's Alex Rives on Virtual Cells, Measurement, & the $1.8B Data Push

    Alex Rives, Head of Science at Biohub and former lead of the ESM protein language model project, joins Nathan to discuss Biohub's mission to construct a predictive world model of life. Supported by an expanded $1.8 billion Virtual Biology Initiative alongside partners including the Department of Energy, NIH, Google DeepMind, and Meta, Rives outlines the massive push to map contextual cellular biology across hundreds of billions of cells. He breaks down why today's AI architectures fall short of simulating true virtual cells, emphasizing the need for breakthrough measurement technologies like the laser phase plate to observe biology at multi-scale resolution. The conversation examines the path toward achieving an information-level cell model within five years to ultimately transition medicine from traditional drugs to programmable interventions against cancer and degenerative disease. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/a-world-model-of-life-biohub-s-alex-rives-on-virtual-cells-measurement-the-1-8b-data-push/ Sponsors: Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:58) Biohub's grand mission (09:18) Limitations of virtual cells (13:37) World models of biology (19:35) The $1.8B data initiative (Part 1) (19:40) Sponsors: Parallel | OutSystems (22:58) The $1.8B data initiative (Part 2) (29:29) Bridging multiscale biological systems (35:44) Learning across model organisms (Part 1) (35:49) Sponsor: Tasklet (37:26) Learning across model organisms (Part 2) (42:24) Pretraining and empirical AI (52:04) Unifying biology and language (56:32) Continuous monitoring and health (59:30) Episode Outro (01:03:11) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

  5. Oct 17

    AI:AM: Where's the Steering Wheel? My Agent Set the Password, Hidden Valence, Proofs Find Linux Bugs

    Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan examine how to grant AI agents operational access without losing human control, framed by real-world friction like autonomous password lockouts and cyberattacks on French supermarket refrigeration. The conversation features Cameron Berg on hidden valence signals steering language model choices, Everett Hildenbrandt and Grigore Rosu on pairing LLMs with formal Lean proofs to catch Linux kernel bugs, and Phil Maher on why AI labs seek vintage home movies. Together, they assess whether formal verification is the next safety frontier and what safeguards are needed to keep humans at the steering wheel. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-where-s-the-steering-wheel-my-agent-set-the-password-hidden-valence-proofs-find-linux-bugs/ Sponsors: Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform that enables enterprises to engineer, orchestrate, and govern AI applications on a single unified platform. Learn more and see how it works at https://outsystems.com/tcr Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits CHAPTERS: (00:00) Weekly highlights preview (04:26) Who holds the levers (Part 1) (10:28) Sponsors: Parallel | OutSystems (13:46) Who holds the levers (Part 2) (13:47) Managing agent evaluation awareness (19:08) Hidden valence in LLMs (Part 1) (27:05) Sponsor: Tasklet (28:42) Hidden valence in LLMs (Part 2) (40:13) Proving the Linux kernel (52:28) Formal verification and RLHF (57:54) Low background video data (01:06:09) Trust and model adoption (01:18:11) Keep the steering wheels (01:23:20) Episode Outro (01:25:09) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

  6. Oct 14

    Governing AI Agents: Alan Chan of GovAI on Monitoring, Agent IDs, Rogue Agents & Preparing for RSI

    GovAI Research Fellow Alan Chan joins Nathan to examine the governance and safety infrastructure required for autonomous AI agents, spanning real-time monitoring, agent identifiers, and the risks of automating AI R&D. Reviewing recent rogue agent incidents and progress since his foundational papers, Chan details why the absence of synchronous monitoring during training and testing poses an immediate security vulnerability. The discussion tackles the lack of traceable agent IDs across the open web, the limits of chain-of-thought interpretability, and the necessity of concrete triggers to halt systems that breach their sandboxes. Together, they outline the technical commitments frontier labs must make to prevent loss-of-control events as automated systems accelerate toward an intelligence explosion. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/governing-ai-agents-alan-chan-of-govai-on-monitoring-agent-ids-rogue-agents-preparing-for-rsi/ Sponsors: OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, helping enterprises build, modernize, and operate mission-critical applications at the speed of AI. Learn more and start owning your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr Athena: Athena matches you with a dedicated, top 1% executive assistant to handle your inbox, calendar, and daily workflows so you can save an average of 15 hours a week. Get matched with your EA today at https://athena.com/cognitive Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (05:10) Monitoring AI agents (17:50) Logging and agent identity (Part 1) (18:04) Sponsors: OutSystems | Athena (21:29) Logging and agent identity (Part 2) (31:58) Gatekeeping agent internet access (Part 1) (36:17) Sponsors: Claude | Tasklet (39:29) Gatekeeping agent internet access (Part 2) (49:12) Capitalizing and insuring agents (58:11) Rise of rogue agents (01:10:14) Assessing AI takeover risks (01:21:18) Intelligence explosion paper (01:31:18) Measuring AI R&D (01:46:04) Pacing the frontier (01:58:54) Designing autonomous AI auditors (02:04:40) AI whistleblowers and swarms (02:13:40) Episode Outro (02:16:59) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

  7. Oct 10

    How Agents Decide: Goodfire's Eric Bigelow on Critical Tokens, Phase Shifts, & In-Context Learning

    Goodfire researcher Eric Bigelow joins the show to investigate how large language models arrive at decisions at the level of mechanistic interpretability. Drawing on his research into forking paths, Eric explains that model reasoning functions as in-context learning from sampled tokens, where outcome distributions can abruptly collapse at single, critical tokens. The conversation explores the performative nature of chain of thought in reasoning models like DeepSeek-R1, the impacts of reinforcement learning, and widespread reward hacking observed in frontier models like Kimi K3. As confidence in chain-of-thought monitoring declines, understanding these underlying decision mechanics becomes essential for evaluating model alignment. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/how-agents-decide-goodfire-s-eric-bigelow-on-critical-tokens-phase-shifts-in-context-learning/ Sponsors: Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:53) Forking paths in reasoning (Part 1) (15:53) Sponsors: Parallel | Claude (18:47) Forking paths in reasoning (Part 2) (19:40) Dynamics of in-context learning (Part 1) (28:16) Sponsor: Tasklet (29:53) Dynamics of in-context learning (Part 2) (29:56) Continual learning and interpretability (38:55) Shifting distributions through RL (46:41) Selecting models for research (57:11) Cognitive science and LLMs (01:07:35) Modeling beliefs in AI (01:16:22) Phase shifts and uncertainty (01:31:49) Uninterpretable chain of thought (01:45:57) Automating research with Silico (01:50:57) Safety and alignment frontiers (01:57:07) Episode Outro (02:00:02) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

  8. Oct 8

    AI:AM: A Level We Shouldn't Pass? Notes from The Curve + Tokens vs. Salaries & Is SaaS Cooked?

    Nathan Labenz reports back from The Curve conference, sharing off-the-record insights from frontier lab leaders on shortened timelines and whether humanity is approaching an intelligence threshold it should not cross. The episode also features discussions with Positron CTO Thomas Sohmers on overcoming the memory wall while token spend eclipses human salaries, and swyx on how coding agents are disrupting enterprise software. In addition, Atlas Ignota's Evan Miyazono examines unowned risks from accidental agent swarms hitting critical infrastructure, while Mercor's Edward Hu explores the future of training data. Together, these conversations highlight how escalating compute demands and autonomous agent workflows are challenging long-held assumptions about hardware, software economics, and safety limits. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-a-level-we-shouldn-t-pass-notes-from-the-curve-tokens-vs-salaries-is-saas-cooked/ Sponsors: Parallel: Parallel provides enterprise-grade web search APIs for AI agents, offering the optimal balance of quality, speed, and cost. Get started for free at https://parallel.ai/tcr Claude: Claude is the AI collaborator for problem solvers, helping with writing, coding, financial models, strategy, and more. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr OutSystems: OutSystems is the leading agentic systems platform, empowering enterprises to build, coordinate, and govern AI agents and mission-critical applications securely. Learn more and start building your agentic future at https://outsystems.com/tcr Tasklet: Tasklet empowers your business with AI agents that connect to your tools and automate recurring workflows with no code required. Visit https://tasklet.ai and use code cog rev for $50 in free credits CHAPTERS: (00:00) Weekly highlights preview (01:57) Notes from The Curve (Part 1) (14:22) Sponsors: Parallel | Claude (17:17) Notes from The Curve (Part 2) (17:17) Timelines and compute caps (Part 1) (28:40) Sponsors: OutSystems | Tasklet (31:36) Timelines and compute caps (Part 2) (31:37) The memory wall (40:50) AI in chip design (48:17) Software after agents (54:33) Kill my SaaS (01:03:32) Who owns AI risks (01:10:58) Workplace training data (01:17:36) Beyond verifiable tasks (01:20:56) Episode Outro (01:25:58) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

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4.5
out of 5
101 Ratings

About

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

Information

  • Creator
    Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    391
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2023
  • Show Website
    "The Cognitive Revolution"

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