Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

Climbing Business Journal

Be inspired and learn from insiders of the climbing industry. We interview routesetters, coaches, managers of gyms and brands, and legendary figures from our sport.

  1. 6d ago

    From Outsider to Industry Leader – CBJ Podcast with Alice Kao

    Alice Kao is the CEO, co-founder and driving force behind Sender One, a Southern California climbing gym chain, which she has led over 13 years from a single location in Santa Ana to six gyms—with more on the way. Her path to the climbing industry was anything but conventional: A first-generation immigrant who interned at Lehman Brothers, worked in international toy sales, and discovered climbing while navigating heartbreak in London, Alice launched Sender One from savings, SBA loans, and checks from family and friends—eventually bringing on a marquee investor in pro climber Chris Sharma. She has since become a respected voice in the broader climbing business community, championing women's leadership through her involvement at CWA, and serving on the USA Climbing board of directors before a principled exit. In this conversation with Scott Rennak, Alice opens up about what it really took to build Sender One—the years of not paying herself, the leap from side hustle to full-time commitment, and the management mistakes she had to unlearn. She also discusses an innovative funding model—a partnership with an impact investment firm to purchase her LAX flagship location—as well as her complicated but ultimately collegial departure from the USA Climbing board. With the 2028 Olympics arriving in LA and her gym sitting eight minutes from the competition venue, she's having more fun running the business than ever before. General Topics Covered Turning Passion into a Sustainable Business Taking Calculated Risks as an Entrepreneur Scaling a Climbing Gym Brand Leadership, Growth, and Founder Evolution Creative Approaches to Financing Expansion Navigating Industry Politics and Governance The Future of Climbing and the Olympic Opportunity Show Notes Alice Kao on Linkedin Sender One website Interview discussing Alice’s childhood and being a “parachute kid” Details about the Impact Fund that purchased LAX location property Alice’s resignation letter from USA Climbing board of directors Thank you Climbing Wall Association, Rúngne, Walltopia, Cascade Specialty, and Rock Gym Pro for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

    1h 15m
  2. The Capital “R” Routesetter – Rylan Marshall-Meistrich

    May 24

    The Capital “R” Routesetter – Rylan Marshall-Meistrich

    What does it really mean to push an industry forward without losing sight of the people climbing on your walls? On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen invited Rylan Marshall-Meistrich (he/him) into the studio to hear his answer. Rylan has been climbing since 2004 and setting since 2005, starting out at ROCK’n & JAM’n (now The Spot Thornton), one of Colorado's earliest climbing gyms. He then worked at Planet Granite in San Francisco and a stint in Tahoe before returning to Colorado in 2017 as head setter at Movement Boulder. Now, Rylan is Movement’s Colorado Director of Setting. With nearly two decades of setting experience, Rylan has set at nearly every discipline of USA Climbing nationals and holds a USAC Level 5 certification. Outside the gym, he runs a small recording studio in his basement and has been playing music since middle school—a side of him that shows up more in his setting philosophy than you might expect. General Topics Covered What is a routesetter's job, really?  Setting for your audience: from professional athletes to the birthday party room Setting for yourself: when it can serve the climber and when it only serves yourself The fine line between creativity versus usability The impermanence problem: why routesetting innovation often has to happen slowly and what that means for setters trying to push the envelope  How trends move through the industry and the difference between duplication and emulation  The difference between vertical and lateral career progression in routesetting  The USAC pipeline, online presence, and how setters are building reputations in a more competitive field Where competition bouldering is heading, and an honest reckoning with what experience actually means with a long career Show Notes Movement Gyms Colorado Necessity Breeds Invention – the Impact Driver Podcast with Andy Nelson On Eye-Pro, Ugly Boulders, and Influencers – the Impact Driver Podcast with Kegan Minock Lessons From the Sharp End of Modern Setting – the Impact Driver Podcast with Mike Bockino Steal Like an Artist: 10 Things Nobody Told You About Being Creative by Austin Kleon Born from the Climbing Life: Episode 4—Drifter’s Escape—The World’s Hardest Trad Climb Closing Notes If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here. The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association, and Kilter. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

    1h 8m

  3. May 1

    Collaboration, Grit, and Crag Care – Jason Haas

    In this week’s episode, Scott Rennak interviews Jason Haas, co-founder of G1 Climbing + Fitness. Jason shares his extensive journey in climbing, from his early days on Michigan sandstone and dirtbagging out of a Saturn to climbing on nearly every continent. He reflects on his work as a prolific first ascensionist with over 700 routes, authoring 12 guidebooks, contributing to the early development of the Boulder Climbing Community nonprofit, and replacing aging bolts across Colorado in partnership with organizations like the American Safe Climbing Association. Jason discusses balancing a 15-year teaching career alongside his climbing pursuits, as well, and how that experience shaped his perspective as a gym owner. He dives into the challenges of launching G1, including navigating multiple failed locations, zoning hurdles, and ultimately opening just one week before the COVID-19 shutdown. The conversation also explores Jason’s role in developing the Climb Pass to foster collaboration across the Colorado Front Range, his views on auto belays, gym-to-outdoors stewardship, and his grit-first philosophy on building both a business and a life in climbing. General Topics Covered Jason Haas’s path from climber to gym owner Opening G1 Climbing Gym and overcoming development challenges Navigating COVID-19 as a new gym owner Industry collaboration through the “Climb Pass” initiative Stewardship and involvement with American Safe Climbing Association and Boulder Climbing Community Gym responsibility in safety, education, and community building Show Notes G1 Climbing + Fitness The CLIMB Pass Boulder Climbing Community American Safe Climbing Association Climbing Boulder's Flatirons (Jason's guidebook) Thank you Cascade Specialty, Rúngne, Climbing Wall Association, Essential and Approach for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

    58 min
  4. Where You Feel Comfortable, You Try Harder – Zoey Grinstead

    Apr 19

    Where You Feel Comfortable, You Try Harder – Zoey Grinstead

    Today’s episode of the Impact Driver Podcast welcomes Zoey Grinstead (she/they), Los Angeles-based routesetter and Queer Crush founder, to the recording studio. In a sport that prides itself on counter-cultural roots and community values, the gap between that identity and lived reality for many climbers is still very much worth talking about. The question of who belongs in routesetting—and who feels like they don’t—has arguably never been more urgent. Zoey brings a grounded, no-nonsense perspective on identity, community, and creative expression in routesetting to this week’s conversation, as she and Holly Chen discuss all these topics as well as tips for fostering inclusion. Zoey is a routesetter at Touchstone Climbing in Los Angeles, where she has been part of the team for nearly 15 years, starting as a belay staff member before finding her way to the setting closet. With over a decade of setting experience, Zoe has worked in commercial and competition settings alike, including notable events like Death Moth in 2026 and multiple Women Up competitions. She holds a USAC Level 2 certification and is a former president of Queer Crush, a nonprofit dedicated to holding space for the queer community within climbing. Beyond the gym, Zoe is currently a student. General Topics Covered How Zoey found her way into routesetting (from wilderness therapy kid to full-time setter) Queer Crush: what it is, how it started, and why Zoe got involved Affinity spaces in climbing: what they are, why they matter, and what they offer that the broader community doesn't Routesetting as a relative bubble: is our profession more inclusive than the broader climbing world? Tokenization in routesetting: how to recognize it, and how to push through it How setter identity and body type shape the climbing on the wall (and why diverse teams can set better gyms) Practical ways to support marginalized setters and help them feel at home, from offering the fiberglass to donating to affinity organizations The setting bag confessional: what's always in there and never gets used Show Notes Find Zoey Grinstead on Instagram Touchstone Climbing and the Woman Up Climbing Festival Keep Them Sketched Out – Impact Driver Podcast with Claire Kawainui Miller Death Moth Climbing Competition Queer Crush Climbing Routesetting and climbing affinity spaces: Bolt & Revolt Setting Coalition, Brown Girls Climb, Cruxing in Color, Flash Foxy  USAC Routesetting Resources: Path of a Routesetter (updated), Routesetting Level Prerequisites Closing Notes If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here. The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Climbing Wall Association, Cascade Specialty, Trango and Rock Gym Pro. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

    1h 5m

  5. Apr 3

    Athletes, Training Centers & Road to LA28 – Marc Norman

    In this week’s episode, Scott Rennak sits down with Marc Norman, CEO of USA Climbing, who has been in this role for eight years and came to it with unique credentials. Previously, Marc spent two decades at the Utah Olympic Legacy Foundation, finishing as VP of Sport and Venues—overseeing three Olympic facilities, 300 employees, and the kind of large-scale operations that come with hosting some of the world's biggest sporting events. He was also a competitive athlete and has a lifelong love of climbing that dates back to a Wisconsin crag in the early ‘90s. During their conversation, Marc and Scott dig into some deep topics within competition climbing today. They cover USA Climbing's ambitious National Training Center project in Salt Lake City—including the partnership with Momentum, the community pushback, and how the facility is being designed to serve athletes. They also explore the youth athlete pipeline, how climbing can capitalize on its LA 2028 Olympic moment (including paraclimbing's debut on the Paralympic program), and what it's going to take for the whole industry to convert that exposure into real foot traffic and long-term growth. General Topics Covered Leadership and Background of Marc Norman National Training Center Project in Salt Lake City Industry Partnerships (USA Climbing × Momentum) Community Response and Pushback Youth Athlete Pipeline Development Olympics and Global Exposure (LA 2028 and paraclimbing) Converting Awareness Into Gym Growth Show Notes USA Climbing USAC National Training Center USAC Strategic Planning Climbing at LA28 Marc Norman on Linkedin Thank you Cascade Specialty, Climbing Wall Association, Rúngne, Rock Gym Pro and Kilter for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

    1h 20m
  6. Creative Ego: The Good and The Bad – Zuoyi Phang

    Mar 20

    Creative Ego: The Good and The Bad – Zuoyi Phang

    Today’s guest is Zuoyi (pronounced: Zoe) Phang, a routesetter based in Durham, North Carolina, and a member of the setting team at Triangle Rock Club. Zuoyi began climbing in 2018 after a friend invited her to a gym birthday party and she quickly “fell down the rabbit hold,” climbing nearly every day while balancing long shifts in the service industry. Not long after, she was recruited into routesetting and has been building her experience ever since, working across multiple Triangle Rock Club locations and setting USA Climbing events across the Southeast. Notably, Zuoyi has also set for Siege the Southeast. Zuoyi is a USA Climbing Level 2 routesetter with plans to step into her first chief roles in the near future. In this episode, Zuoyi and host Holly Chen dive into the human side of routesetting: the emotions that come with creative work, the role ego plays in the craft, and how team members can support each other through the inevitable frictions of collaborative setting. General Topics Covered Why routesetting can be more emotional than people expect Managing frustration, feedback and vulnerability when sharing climbs with the public How ego shows up in routesetting, and the difference between healthy pride and destructive ego Using curiosity and communication to navigate disagreements about grades, movement and style How body types, strengths, and climbing backgrounds shape setters’ perspectives Recognizing when a teammate is struggling and how crews can support each other during a tough day The role of leadership and crew dynamics in diffusing tension on a setting team Balancing innovation and practicality when testing new ideas on the wall What an ideal routesetting team culture can look like, and the importance of staying serious about the craft but lighthearted enough to enjoy the process Show Notes Find Zuoyi Phang on Instagram Triangle Rock Club Siege Climbing An Episode of Affirmations: Battling Imposter Syndrome with Ethan Paris Closing Notes If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here. The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, Approach and Onsite. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

    1h 9m

  7. Mar 6

    Building Gyms and a Career in Climbing – Brett Jessen

    In this episode, Scott Rennak interviews Brett Jessen, the Head of Climbing Environments at Bouldering Project. Brett talks about his extensive journey in the climbing industry, from his early days as a climber and routesetter in the ‘90s to his current role in building cutting-edge climbing gyms. He discusses the evolution of climbing gyms, the design and construction process, and the importance of community and culture in climbing. Brett also offers valuable advice for aspiring gym owners and reflects on the future of the climbing industry. General Topics Covered Brett’s path to his current role Collaboration between architects and engineers during the design process Advice for aspiring gym owners on understanding a market and building requirements The significant planning and budgeting that comes with constructing a gym Challenges of working with historical buildings Importance of educating climbers about outdoor ethics Show Notes Bouldering Project CBJ article about St. Paul BP Thank you Rúngne, Approach, Essential, Flashed, and OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

    59 min
  8. Inside USA Climbing’s Routesetting Program – Jeremy Ho

    Feb 20

    Inside USA Climbing’s Routesetting Program – Jeremy Ho

    Today’s guest is Jeremy Ho, who many  know as JHo, one of the most recognizable names in the U.S. setting community. Jeremy has worked in the climbing industry since 2007, primarily as a routesetter, and has been a National Routesetter with USA Climbing since 2012. He now serves as USAC's National Routesetting Program Manager, helping shape education, pathways, and standards across the country. Previously, Jeremy was Director of Routesetting at Touchstone Climbing and Sportrock Climbing Centers, and he has set events ranging from USAC Team Trials and Open Bouldering Nationals to Bouldering World Cups and North American Cup Series competitions. Jeremy and host Holly Chen dive into leadership, development, and the realities of building a sustainable national routesetting pipeline in this episode. General Topics Covered Leading a national routesetting program and stepping into a national leadership role Clearer USA Climbing pathways and clinic structure Representation, access, and underrepresented setter initiatives New prerequisites and partnerships (PRS clinics) to better prepare setters before entering USA Climbing clinics Youth competition difficulty and long-term athlete retention Bottlenecks and what really moves setters forward in the USAC pipeline Crew selection, team cohesion, and why soft skills matter at high-level events Show Notes Find Jeremy Ho on Instagram  USA Climbing Routesetter Resources  USA Climbing Routesetter Pathway Amy Stone Foundation Closing Notes If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here. The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Approach, Essential, Onsite and Flashed. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

    1h 31m
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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
6 Ratings

About

Be inspired and learn from insiders of the climbing industry. We interview routesetters, coaches, managers of gyms and brands, and legendary figures from our sport.

Information

  • Creator
    Climbing Business Journal
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    74
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2023 All rights reserved.
  • Show Website
    Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

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