Agents Of Tech

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*Where big questions meet bold ideas* Agents of Tech is a video podcast exploring the biggest questions of our time—featuring bold thinkers and transformative ideas driving change. Perfect for the curious, the thoughtful and anyone invested in what’s next for our planet. Hosted by Stephen Horn, former BBC producer turned entrepreneur and CEO, Autria Godfrey, Emmy Award-winning journalist and Laila Rizvi, neuroscience and tech researcher, the show features conversations with trailblazers reshaping the scientific frontier.

  1. 7h ago

    Are Governments Ready for the Age of AI?

    AI has the potential to change everything, from work, education, healthcare, and even democracy itself. But with that promise comes pressure on those in positions of power to get it right. So if you were advising the next president or prime minister, what part of the AI strategy playbook would you tear up first? Are governments even remotely ready for the age of AI? Are we prioritizing prosperity for all with the implementation of AI technologies across almost all areas of modern life? This week on Agents of Tech, we’re pivoting from the tech bros to policymakers as we dive into the role lawmakers should play as we weigh where value, risk, and responsibility move next. Hosts Autria Godfrey, Stephen Horn, and Laila Rizvi sit down with Benedict Macon-Cooney, Chief AI and Innovation Officer at the Tony Blair Institute, as he lays out whether the state can act before the AI disruption arrives. In our pre-interview discussion, our hosts explore the rapid pace of change and the challenges it brings. But while Laila sees governments that don’t understand AI and are not capable of keeping up with the speed of change, Stephen thinks that’s “a bit harsh.” So what is the first thing that governments should do? According to Benedict Macon-Cooney, it starts with “understanding this technology and adopting it into your day-to-day life… before you can then begin to look at the wider tranche of government where there'll be lots of other points of opportunity for process automation, improving public service delivery, and just the speed and execution of government more broadly.” Autria brings up the issue of universal basic income, the idea that AI will create so much abundance that people won’t need to work. Even if UBI does become part of the social security net, Macon-Cooney says he thinks, “people will ultimately want to find some meaning in work…I think people will always want to work and will find ways to do so.” Stephen points out that work looked very different before and after the Industrial Revolution, and that the AI Revolution will also result in a complete transformation of work, and “how human beings get meaning and identity…arguably could change.” Next, we ask Benedict what he thinks the biggest transformation will be as a result of AI, and he outlines the influence of AI on education. He talks about democratizing access to high-class education and personalized AI tutors for every student. After the break, we shift the conversation to sovereign AI, and whether AI dependence could lead to national vulnerability. Much like our conversation with Benedict’s colleague at The Tony Blair Institute, Ryan Wain (Watch our episode with Ryan: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0YVaIEtjMo8DLOr2XozVPc?si=1c717f3e52ae4a17), Benedict explains that building frontier models isn’t for every country, but it’s also not the only way countries can take part in the AI revolution. “So then the question of sovereignty becomes, "Where do I have leverage and where can I have comparative advantage…?" Some of that advantage, Benedict says, comes in the area of first-of-a-kind technologies like geothermal and nuclear, especially fusion, as well as biotech and life sciences. Laila, Stephen and Autria discuss how the UK and the US fit into the evolving power dynamic, while also debating whether Silicon Valley is stealing the UK’s AI talent. We finish up by asking Benedict the big question: What should governments do now? His answer compares how quickly the AI revolution is playing out in the private sector to how slowly the government moves. “Solving that structural change is the number one priority because if you don't actually improve the speed of how government does regulation, policymaking, et cetera, it will never be able to catch up to the speed of change in the economy and address some of these big structural changes.” What do you think? Are lawmakers moving quickly enough to keep up with the changing AI landscape? Join the discussion in the comments.

  2. Aug 13

    Are We Investing Too Much Money on AI? Oxford Economist Weighs In

    Trillions of dollars are being poured into the AI promise of a global economic transformation. We're being sold a productivity revolution, faster output, greater growth, and unprecedented prosperity. But when? Real, tangible gains are barely showing up in the data. So is the return on investment actually going to be smaller and slower than promised? And could these billion-dollar bets bankrupt the companies making them and take the global economy down with it? This week, hosts Stephen Horn and Laila Rizvi are talking to globally renowned economist and Director of the Oxford Internet Institute, University of Oxford, Professor Carl Benedikt Frey, co-author of the famous “Future of Employment” study which garnered headlines about robots taking over our jobs and, more recently, his book "The Technology Trap," which showed that revolutionary technologies can take generations to pay off. Laila kicks off the interview by asking Professor Frey if he thinks that the trillions of dollars being invested in AI will pay off in the next five years. The more interesting question, he says, is whether it’s going to pay off for society and the economy. His answer to that one: probably not! He also questions how many of the firms investing enormous resources in the AI race will come out profitable on the other side. Next, Stephen and Carl compare the AI Revolution to the Industrial Revolution. Professor Frey points out that the first Industrial Revolution caused disruption, job loss and decline of wages at the lower end of income distribution, but that the second Industrial Revolution brought us broad-based improvements in standard of living and income. “I think a key question going forward is whether AI will mainly take the form of automation, and more closely mirror the First Industrial Revolution, or whether we will see it develop new products, new industries that create new jobs and activities, that create more broader shared abundance like the Second Industrial Revolution.” So where will innovation come from? Professor Frey points out the decline in breakthrough innovation and breakthrough patents since the computer revolution, which he attributes to an increase of projects, but at a lower quality. Laila asks whether access to AI is leading to more “AI slop” in academic papers, work and essays, while Stephen wonders how companies are actually going to innovate by putting AI at the heart of process. Laila asks Professor Frey what happens to society if AI doesn’t deliver productivity growth soon? Has AI done more harm than good? “Well, AI is clearly a tremendously unpopular technology… It's hard to think of any other technology where the developers of that technology are saying, "Well, best case, this will take your job, but worst case, it's going to kill you." Plus, he says, there’s plenty of hype because the stakes are so high. Stephen turns to the role of governments in the development of AI, and Professor Frey describes approaches that make sense for Europe, China and the USA. When will AI boost productivity and how significant will it be? Professor Frey thinks the answer “depends to what degree we'll see new firms coming in, building new products and new industries around AI” rather than AI merely being used as a productivity tool by individuals, and that “institutional change is going to be needed for these productivity gains to be realized.” As always, we end with our Rapid Fire segment. Laila asks Professor Frey for something that's universally accepted in his field that he strongly disagrees with: “It's seen as almost universally true that the best predictor for the future of work is what machine capabilities are. What's missing in there is that we need to consider more what humans actually want.” Finally, Stephen asks Carl what he’s optimistic about: “I'm really quite optimistic about the potential for AI in medical discovery. I think we do have an extraordinary opportunity for curing many diseases, including, hopefully, cancer.”

  3. Aug 6

    The Man Who Ran America's $9B Science Agency: "AI Isn't a Private-Sector Miracle"

    If public money helped build the foundations of AI, but now private companies control much of its future, who should be reaping the benefits? Is there a role for the government? Who should be in charge of shaping what comes next? In this episode of Agents of Tech, our hosts Autria Godfrey, Stephen Horn, and Laila Rizvi are talking AI, publicly funded science, and the future of innovation with former National Science Foundation Director, Dr. Sethuraman Panchanathan, aka Panch, the Professor of Technology and Innovation at Arizona State University. Our guest, Dr. Sethuraman Panchanathan ran the National Science Foundation in the United States, one of the most important and powerful public science agencies in the world. The NSF was investing in AI long before names like Anthropic or OpenAI even existed. According to Panch, over the last six decades, the NSF has funded 80% of non-defense compute research – even, as Laila says, during “AI winters.” We start off by asking, how can anyone make the argument that AI and the current AI structure that we know and use today did not come from the public? And what role should the government play in AI research, or in passing legislation that will put AI safeguards in place? Dr. Panchanathan tells us about the 27 AI institutes the NSF launched while he was there that permeate all aspects of AI. He talks about the exciting opportunity that the co-evolution of AI and humans represents. Stephen asks how we can make sure AI is for everybody and it doesn’t lead to greater inequality, given the trillion dollars hyperscalers are pumping into AI? Panch describes the importance of the democratization of AI access, and the role of the federal government in these efforts. He explains how the NSF built the National AI Research Resource (NAIRR), not only as a federal government project, but as a hyper-partnership approach that also leveraged all of the assets and infrastructure of the private sector. Laila points out that it goes further than just having access – it’s reaping the benefits of those tools. Panch agrees, and likens the situation to the “digital divide” we talked about with broadband access. “We have had these kinds of challenges in the past,” Dr. Panchanathan says, and the answer is “democratized access in the form of education, training, awareness.” He talks about how the NSF’s Regional Innovation Engine program brought stakeholders together in a synchronized manner. After the break, Autria asks Dr. Panchanathan whether the government has enough in-house technical expertise to try to evaluate frontier AI systems properly and keep up with the speed at which things are progressing. Yes, says Panch, but expertise isn’t enough. “You want to be partnering with the people who are in the frontier...they are the people in the industry. And I can tell you, I've had many conversations with leaders in industry. They are only too happy to partner with the government in helping shape all of this future together in an unselfish way.” As always, we end our interview with our Rapid Fire segment, where our hosts ask our guests a series of three questions. Autria asks Panch where people will draw the line when it comes to allowing AI in their personal lives; his answer: compromising their privacy. Laila asks him for something that's universally accepted in his field that he strongly disagrees with; Dr. Panchanathan talks about the future of learning and why he doesn’t agree “that somehow learning happens in the campuses and four walls by the faculty that are going to be training you.” Finally, Stephen asks him what he’s optimistic about. “I am very, very optimistic about what technology and the human can do to unleash the latent potential of humans. We have not seen anything yet, my dear friends.” What about you? Would you like to see private industry continue to captain the ship, or should government and federal research institutions regain a bigger role? Weigh in by dropping your comments below.

  4. Jul 23

    Is the AI Backlash Overhyped or Justified?

    AI was supposed to make us better: faster searches, more productivity, wider knowledge, but it hasn't, and public sentiment is starting to shift. People are inundated with fake images and voices, AI-generated slop, unreliable answers, phony influencers, and a growing wave of content that looks real, but it may not be. At the same time, young people just entering the job market are asking whether AI will not only just take their jobs, but alter their ability to have a career altogether. Is the conversation around AI contributing to this ever-growing crisis of distrust and misinformation? As the tide turns on AI, could public backlash against Big Tech be reaching a breaking point? In this episode of Agents of Tech, our hosts Stephen Horn, Autria Godfrey, and Laila Rizvi explore whether AI is still a productivity tool ready to revolutionize the world for the better, or if it’s creating a crisis of distrust and leading to a wave of anti-AI backlash? In this lively discussion episode, our hosts grapple with the important debate about whether the public is turning against AI or maybe just against the companies deploying it. Or, to put it another way, “Are we heading toward Big Tech's big tobacco moment?” We start off with Stephen describing the CEO’s perspective into the agentic AI revolution, comparing the benefits of AI adoption with the negatives and the narrative around it. Autria and Laila debate Hollywood studio’s response to using AI. Is it a tool to be used for augmentation. Will it replace workers? Or is it reflective of a flawed communication strategy by the studios? Stephen compares the AI revolution to the Industrial Revolution and the lag between the actual change and the perception of that change - even bringing up the original Luddites. You’ll hear from previous guests on our show, like Emily Bender, who talks about AI’s impact on early jobs in a clip from our episode, “What AI Is — and Isn't: A Conversation with Emily Bender.” According to Laila, this is another example of Silicon Valley’s messaging problem, and she cites statistics that show that the AI trust gap is different in the U.S. than it is in China. Stephen pushes back on Emily’s concern that replacing entry level jobs with AI will create problems up the corporate ladder in the future. But when Autria asks him if he’s predicting the end of the C-suite, he says that AI will lead to a fundamental restructuring of the workplace. We also explore the impact of AI on politics, citing our previous guest Gary Marcus. Will anti-AI sentiment be an important element in our upcoming political discourse? Next up, we share a clip with Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales from our episode, “Wikipedia, Media Bias and AI with Jimmy Wales.” We discuss the relationship between AI and human knowledge, and whether LLMs would be completely lost without humans. In our final thoughts, Autria, Laila and Stephen debate the concept of “AI for good” and the role of public perception of AI. Stephen concludes that because the fundamental change created by AI will affect all aspects of society, it’s society, however you define it, that will have to grapple with it. And Laila brings in the importance of capital markets and their strategy of selling fear as opposed to highlighting the value-add. What do you think? Tell us in the comments below.

  5. Jul 9

    AI and the Economics of Doing Good with MIT’s Hala Hanna

    Hundreds of billions of dollars are flowing into AI investment, yet our guest, Hala Hanna, Executive Director of MIT Solve, points out that less than 1% of AI venture funding is going to social impact. If AI is so powerful, why is so little of that power being directed toward the people and the problems that need it the most? Can AI really be used for the public good, or is the promise of AI for good just Silicon Valley lip service? We're talking AI, social impact, and the economics of doing good this week on Agents of Tech. According to Hala, “technology can and should serve humanity's most pressing needs, not just its most profitable markets. We think technology can close gaps in health, in wealth, in learning, and of course respond to climate change.” Solve was created a decade ago by the President of MIT, with the idea that “the challenges of our time require us to stretch a hand to all problem solvers around the world.” But because, according to Hala, “tech doesn't change the world, people do,” Solve finds incredible early-stage ventures that are using technology to close those equity gaps and helps them scale. Their global network of over 460 solutions reaches 430 million lives, with almost $90 million in direct funding and over $1.4 billion raised. Within their portfolio, AI-enabled ventures have been shown to reach 5 times more people than non-AI ventures. Hala tells us about one of their Solvers, a startup called Speetar that used AI to connect anyone with a smartphone to a doctor at a time where there was no digital healthcare infrastructure, and has since become the backbone of most of Libya's healthcare system. Hala and our hosts Autria Godfrey, Stephen Horn, and Laila Rizvi discuss why such a small percentage of the trillions of dollars being spent to build out AI goes to social causes. They also ask Hala what can be done to change that imbalance given the profit goals of the large hyperscalers and their responsibilities to their shareholders, as well as how to include the parts of the world that are being left out, like developing countries in the Global South. Among other things, Hala talks about how the “broligarchy” is employing a calculus that is completely disassociated from the real life of actual people, and that, “It’s also the regulatory wild west. Today, a deli sandwich is more regulated than AI.” Rather than wait for their conscience to kick in, Hala says, we need to structure incentives that get them to change, or to build alternative models. “We're back to prioritizing now cheap energy over clean energy, basically burning barrels of oil over micro doses of dopamine.” After our break, we cover how AI is being used with increasing frequency to not only assess grant applications, but also to write them. Hala explains how Solve is using AI, and why in their process, humans have the final say. We also explore how the “agentic revolution” is happening at a much faster rate than the industrial revolution, and how society can participate in imagining – and bringing about – a better future for everyone. As always, we end our interview with our Rapid Fire segment, where our hosts ask our guests a series of three questions. Autria asks Hala where people will draw the line when it comes to allowing AI in their personal lives; Laila asks her for something that's universally accepted that she strongly disagrees with; and Stephen asks her what she’s optimistic about. What about you? Do you think that AI should be pushed toward prioritizing more social good? Or are the commercial incentives simply too strong to sway current priorities? Can big tech help solve global problems? Or should we stop waiting for companies to do what only governments, funders and public institutions can mandate? Tell us in the comments below, and please be sure to like and subscribe.

  6. Jun 25

    Understanding AI World Models with AMI’s Alex LeBrun

    The current AI boom is really built on the huge scaling of LLMs, but are they're getting it wrong? Alex LeBrun, Co-founder and CEO of Advanced Machine Intelligence (AMI Labs), argues that if AI is going to understand the world, model cause and effect, and reason across time, it may need something different: world models. His new company has raised more than $1 billion to try to prove it. He isn't making a technical argument – it's a challenge to the whole logic of the current AI boom. So today, our hosts Autria Godfrey, Stephen Horn and Laila Rizvi are asking Alex LeBrun whether the industry is over-invested in scaling just one dominant paradigm, and whether world models are a real alternative or just a better theory in a market that may have already chosen its winner. Autria kicks things off by asking Alex where LLMs fall short. According to Alex, “If you want to understand or manipulate the real world, then LLMs are not good…across the board.” He explains that LLMs are good in language-first tasks: everything that is discreet and recognized, like mathematics, coding, and information retrieval. But that’s “only one class of problems. It's not everything in the world.” Alex defines what world models are, how they are trained, and what they are most useful for. You’ll hear about how AMI chairman Yann LeCun and his team developed a concept called JEPA, Joint Embedding Predictive Architecture, which is a way to train world models through self-supervised learning. We explore how AMI is using data-rich video to train their world models – and why the vast majority of the videos on YouTube just won’t cut it as source material. Laila asks about the possibility of scaling LLMs to the point where they can lead to implicit world models emerging. Alex disagrees. He points to diminishing returns on the core progress of LLMs in spite of spending billions of dollars. Instead, he sees world models as complimentary to LLMs the way physicians need real world training in addition to only reading books. He even compares how LLMs and world models can mirror the way the human brain works, with different areas of the brain responsible for different functions while working together in tandem. We dive into the economics of AI, from whether further investment in scaling LLMs makes sense to whether world models will catch on with investors. Alex shares some of the challenges he’s faced competing for compute and raising capital in an investment climate where Anthropic has a $30 billion run rate. When Stephen wonders how world models will fit in with agentic AI in areas like healthcare, Alex points out that agentic models are very brittle and usually break when it comes to long term planning. He says 99% accuracy isn’t enough if it means killing 1 out of every 100 patients. World models build an internal representation of the world, which is more deterministic, and will allow for longer term planning with more accuracy. Finally, it’s time for our Rapid Fire segment, where our hosts ask our guests a series of three questions. Autria asks Alex where people will draw the line with AI in their personal lives; Laila asks him for something that's universally accepted in his field that he disagrees with; and Stephen asks Alex what will happen in the future that people aren't talking about now. In our post interview discussion, Autria. Stephen and Laila discuss whether Alex made the case for including world models in the AI economy, including diverting some of the capital being invested in LLMs into world models. We also want to know what you think. Are world models the new frontier in the world of AI, or is scaling LLMs still the best bet forward for seeing all the potential that AI has to offer? Tell us in the comments.

  7. Jun 11

    AI and Productivity at Work with Microsoft’s Matt Firestone

    AI at work has been sold as a productivity revolution. But Microsoft's latest Work Trend Index points to a more complicated story. Workers are using AI, companies are buying the tools, and agents are beginning to take on more of the execution – but many organizations are not yet built to capture the value. The question is no longer just whether AI can help people work faster. It's whether companies know how to redesign work around it. Is enterprise AI finally moving from experimentation to measurable impact? Or are companies still buying the promise before they know how to change the work? In this episode of Agents of Tech, we’re talking the current state of AI, workplace productivity, and the rise of agents with Matt Firestone, General Manager of Frontier Function at Microsoft, who leads their work on Microsoft 365 Copilot and agents. Matt, who has been closely involved in the company's research on “The Frontier Firm,” starts off by explaining how Microsoft looked at native AI companies to figure out how existing companies can reorganize themselves to be more like them and reach the frontier. He and hosts Autria Godfrey, Stephen Horn and Laila Rizvi discuss frontier professionals, who use AI agents for multi-step workflows and multi-agent systems. According to the Microsoft Work Trend Index, 16% of people self-identify that way. Matt describes the “Transformation Paradox,” where frontier professionals do great things using AI but get resistance from their organizations. The group talks about how the rate of change is much faster than the Industrial Revolution, and how leaders need to listen to and rely on their employees who are ahead of them on the AI adoption curve. They explore barriers to adoption, including technology hurdles, organizational culture, and the relationship of individuals to AI and their career development. When Autria brings up the topic of AI replacing entry level workers, Matt points to data from the MWTI that shows people are using AI for different things than rote, repetitive task work. “49% of the usage of M365 Copilot was higher-order cognitive tasks. So things like deep data analysis, asking multi-shot questions, more sophisticated types of long-running research.” Which means, Matt says, that AI is actually raising the level, scope, breadth, and depth of what an entry level worker can do in their first few years. Laila asks Matt about how to make AI less of a product, where employees use it within limits, and more of a substrate, where frontier professionals can use AI to extract the most value out of it. Matt says that AI is “raising individual ambition” and shifting from task-based knowledge work to outcomes-based thinking. Stephen and Matt talk about how enterprise AI can unlock value in employees as well as organizations. Matt describes the 15x year-on-year growth in agents across their ecosystem, and explains Microsoft’s Customer Zero Program. In our Rapid Fire segment, Autria asks Matt about where people will draw the line with AI in their personal lives; Laila asks Matt for something that's universally accepted in your specialist field that he disagrees with; and Stephen asks Matt what he’s optimistic about? Be sure to stick around for the conversation between Autria, Stephen and Laila about how not every company is as engaged with AI adoption as Silicon Valley may think, and what the cost of falling behind may be. What are you seeing in your offices? Is AI at work genuinely changing how your organization operates, or is it still mostly experimentation at employees' leisure? If you are using AI tools, where are you seeing the real value? Has your company successfully implemented AI strategies that are supported by the proper framework, or are they woefully under-prepared on how to execute AI in your industry? Share some successes and some shortcomings in the comments below.

  8. May 28

    Who Controls Medical AI and What Do They Want?

    Disclaimer: The conversation in this video is for information purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Always consult a licensed healthcare professional before making any health decisions. Dr. Eric Topol believes AI can predict disease decades before symptoms appear, and he's argued that AI without doctors may outperform doctors with AI. But someone has to set the rules. And right now, the people most likely to write them aren't doctors or patients, but rather insurers, tech companies, and hospital administrators. This week on Agents of Tech we’re exploring prevention, power, and who really controls medical AI, with Dr. Eric Topol, cardiologist, bestselling author, and Founder and Director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute. We start with Autria asking Dr. Topol about accountability when it comes to medical AI. “It has to be accountable,” he says, but “The problem most people don't realize is there's lots of errors by physicians. In the US, you know, 800,000 serious diagnostic errors a year that result in disability or death. So we're trying to improve accuracy.” He describes studies that show that AI without doctors outperforms doctors using AI, and offers some possible reasons that the studies came to those conclusions. Stephen brings up a Swedish breast cancer study that showed a 29% improvement when AI was brought into detecting, and wonders why that kind of result hasn’t led to widescale adoption. Eric breaks down some of the issues with adopting AI, and he and Laila discuss the implementation problem, including the impact of income disparities on access. Dr. Topol and Autria consider the differences between using AI to look for a cure, and what Eric feels is more promising, using AI for disease prevention. He explains to Stephen how AI has already been used not only to predict disease, but also when it will show up! With Alzheimer’s, for instance, there are layers of data we’re not yet using. “There are biomarkers, like the breakthrough one for Alzheimer's disease, p-tau217, that tells us in advance 15 or 20 years about people who are destined to have a high risk.” Later, he goes into more detail about how AI can make a difference in preventing Alzheimer’s and slowing down the “brain clock.” The conversation shifts to who controls medical AI and what their goals are. Dr. Topol describes hospital administrators who only want to use AI to “increase revenue and to use AI to maximize productivity…My biggest concern about the AI era in medicine is we have this great chance to restore a remarkable patient-doctor relationship. We may never see it again for a long, long time, if ever. And we could blow it because of business-centric issues.” Eric tells Laila how AI can give doctors back time they spend on writing notes, and how China is using opportunistic AI – finding things that were not the reason why abdominal and chest CTs were done that doctors miss – to pick up pancreatic cancer before it’s too late. Another question the team addresses is whether medical AI will benefit everyone or just the rich. Dr. Topol says it will be hard work to ensure the democratization of healthcare, and that it’s one of his primary worries. Finally, it’s our lightning round. Autria asks where people will draw the line with AI, and Eric talks about the current public backlash to AI that he feels will fade over time as we resolve their issues. Laila asks Eric what’s widely accepted in his field that he disagrees with, and he says it’s ludicrous that people in genomics say we shouldn't be using polygenic risk scores. And Stephen asks Eric what people aren't talking about now, and he says “no one's really talking about this prevention opportunity. I'm kind of the lone wolf out there.” What about you? If AI could predict your disease decades early, but the price was that that data is sitting in the hands of tech companies and insurers, not necessarily your doctor, would you still want it? Tell us in the comments.

About

*Where big questions meet bold ideas* Agents of Tech is a video podcast exploring the biggest questions of our time—featuring bold thinkers and transformative ideas driving change. Perfect for the curious, the thoughtful and anyone invested in what’s next for our planet. Hosted by Stephen Horn, former BBC producer turned entrepreneur and CEO, Autria Godfrey, Emmy Award-winning journalist and Laila Rizvi, neuroscience and tech researcher, the show features conversations with trailblazers reshaping the scientific frontier.

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