The Thoughts on Selling™ Podcast

Lee Levitt
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The Thoughts On Selling™ podcast explores the issues in driving enterprise sales revenue through effective pipeline development, account planning and sales performance management. Join us to learn best practices and things to avoid, with the goal of maximizing the account penetration, customer share of wallet, customer satisfaction and sales productivity of your organization. For more information and to browse the podcast library, please visit http://podcast.thoughtsonselling.com

  1. Escape the Sales Treadmill!

    2D AGO

    Escape the Sales Treadmill!

    I recently sat down with Pete Smith, a sales veteran and the founder of SpotLogic, to talk about a problem we are all feeling: The Treadmill. Sales organizations are cranking up the speed, flooding reps with tools that demand data entry rather than providing data insight. Pete shares his journey from the old-school days of NCR’s "Sugar Camp" (where they taught you how to dress) to building a tool simply because he needed a way to survive the cognitive load of modern selling. We discuss why 84% of enterprise deals die in the first meeting, why "winging it" has become a survival mechanism for overbooked reps, and how to earn the right to sit on the same side of the table as your buyer. Key Highlights & Takeaways: The Origin Story: Pete didn't set out to build a startup. He built SpotLogic for himself because he felt he needed a "force multiplier" to handle complex deals. When he realized it made him twice as effective, his friends forced him to turn it into a company. The "Insider" Threshold: There is a moment in every deal where the buyer decides you are no longer an outsider pitching a product, but an insider helping them solve a problem. If you don't cross that threshold, you are just "column fodder." Discovery is Not a Phase: We agreed that treating discovery as a checkbox in the sales process is a death sentence. Discovery is a state of mind that starts before the first call and continues long after the contract is signed. The "Pajama" Problem: We laughed about the shift from the suit-and-tie culture of NCR to the "socks are the new tie" reality of Zoom sales -- and the time Sun Microsystems had to remind reps not to film internal enablement videos in their PJs! The Goldman Sachs Lesson: Pete shares a brutal story about losing a deal not because the product wasn't better (it was), but because the organizational risk of switching infrastructure was too high. It’s a masterclass in understanding the buyer's ecosystem, not just their pain points. Memorable Quotes: "Customers buy from the reps who understand them best." — Pete Smith "Discovery is the most important part of the job in complex sales... No, it IS the job." — Pete Smith "I've got three critical meetings today. I prepared three hours for one of them. And I'm going to have to wing the other two." — Pete Smith (quoting his son on the reality of modern sales) Call to Action: Stop Winging It: Check out how SpotLogic helps reps reduce cognitive load and prep for meetings in minutes. Connect with Pete: Reach out to Pete at pete@spotlogic.com. Subscribe: If you enjoyed this deep dive into the psychology of buying, hit subscribe on Thoughts on Selling so you never miss an episode!

    39 min
  2. Training versus Enabling: The Reticular Activator, The "T-Word" and Lumpy Bones with Tom Kiernan

    JAN 7

    Training versus Enabling: The Reticular Activator, The "T-Word" and Lumpy Bones with Tom Kiernan

    For this episode of Thoughts on Selling, I sit down with my good friend and fellow sales enablement veteran, Tom Kiernan. Tom is a runner, a dad, and a practitioner who cut his teeth at powerhouses like American Power Conversion (APC) and Schneider Electric. We dive deep into the real difference between "training" (the forbidden T-word) and true enablement. Tom explains why the "Reticular Activating System" is the secret weapon for cutting through the noise in a prospect's brain, and we debate why sales organizations are so bad at the one thing that makes professional athletes great: Practice. We also touch on a topic close to Tom’s heart—his unique "Books as a Service" non-profit, Lumpy Bones, which helps kids (and adults) deal with difficult topics like cancer through humor and adventure. Key Findings & Takeaways: The "T-Word" vs. Process: Tom argues that training is just an event, while enablement is a process. He shares lessons from the "Toyota Way" and how rigorous process management at APC set the stage for global success. The Reticular Activating System (RAS): Ever hear your name over a loudspeaker in a crowded airport? That’s your RAS. Tom explains how "Other Centered Selling" triggers this same mechanism in buyers, stopping them in their tracks because you are talking about them, not your product. The Purpose of Selling is Buying: We discuss why the goal isn't to sell, but to help the customer buy. When you shift your motive, you shift your results. The Practice Deficit: Professionals practice; amateurs just play the game. We look at the stark contrast between how NFL teams or Broadway casts prepare versus how little practice happens in corporate sales. Motive is Transparent: As Tom says, if you are only in it for the commission, it’s written on a "yellow sticky note on your forehead." Customers can smell commission breath a mile away. Lumpy Bones: Tom shares his passion project, Lumpy Bones—a "Books as a Service" 501(c)(3) that gets inspiring children's books into classrooms for free through corporate sponsorship. Memorable Quotes: "Motive is transparent. It's written right up on that yellow sticky that [is] slapped up onto your forehead." — Tom Kiernan "The best swing is the one that I didn't think about... I practiced to get there, but I just hit the ball." — Tom Kiernan "If you don't have a defined process, there's nothing to practice." — Lee Levitt The Bottom Line:Sales enablement isn't just about teaching reps about new products; it's about building capabilities. Whether it's triggering a buyer's attention or building a coaching culture that actually coaches, success comes down to being "other centered." Call to Action: Check out Tom's Book Series: Visit LumpyBones.com to see how Tom is bringing humor and life lessons to kids. Connect with Tom: Find Tom Kiernan on LinkedIn. Subscribe: If you enjoyed this conversation, hit subscribe on Thoughts on Selling so you never miss an episode!

    35 min
  3. From Journalist to "Accidental Manager": Why New Leaders Fail (and How to Fix It) with Ben Perreau

    12/31/2025

    From Journalist to "Accidental Manager": Why New Leaders Fail (and How to Fix It) with Ben Perreau

    In this episode of Thoughts on Selling, I sit down with Ben Perreau, a recovering music journalist turned entrepreneur and leadership expert. Ben joins me from Los Angeles to discuss a problem that plagues almost every growing company: the "Accidental Manager." We explore Ben’s fascinating journey from the BBC newsroom to consulting for Fortune 50 C-suite executives, and why the transition from superstar Individual Contributor to Team Leader is the most dangerous leap in a career. We geek out on photography as a metaphor for leadership, discuss why we are all just "emotional meat sacks" trying to be professional, and dive into how his new company, Parafoil, is using AI-driven "listening circles" to help new managers survive their first year. Key Findings & Takeaways: The "Man in the Arena": Ben shares how Theodore Roosevelt’s famous speech defined his transition from observing the world as a journalist to shaping it as an entrepreneur. The Accidental Manager Crisis: A staggering 82% of early-career managers consider themselves "accidental"—thrust into leadership because they were good at their technical job, not because they were trained to lead. Leadership vs. Photography: We discuss the difference between staying in "Auto Mode" versus mastering "Manual Mode." Great leaders, like great photographers, need to know the technicals but ultimately succeed through composition and vision. The "Emotional Meat Sack" Reality: We try to breed emotion out of work, but we are emotional creatures. Ben argues that suppressing this leads to burnout and failure; effective leadership requires integrating your emotional self with your professional self. Listening Circles: Ben highlights his new platform, Parafoil, which uses "Listening Circles" to create safe, high-trust environments where managers can practice feedback and difficult conversations without fear of judgment. Memorable Quotes: "I think Ben Perreau... is a complex mix of dualities in search of trying to find the one version of myself in amongst all of that." — Ben Perreau "Never doubt that a small committed group of people can change the world. In fact, it's all it ever has." — Ben Perreau (quoting Margaret Mead) "There's a reason why 82% of early career managers consider themselves accidental managers. And there's a reason why a third of their teams leave within a year." — Ben Perreau "We've almost constructed... our own landscape to help us find our own way out of the sort of emotional meat sacks that we all are... but actually it's the counter narratives." — Ben Perreau The Bottom Line: We often promote our best salespeople, engineers, or marketers into management and then abandon them. Ben’s work with Parafoil reminds us that leadership is a craft that must be practiced, not just a title that is bestowed. If you want to stop the churn of "accidental managers," you have to provide a safe space for them to fail, learn, and grow. Call to Action: Stop the Churn: Are you an "accidental manager" or leading a team of them? Check out how Parafoil is changing the game. Connect with Ben: Visit Parafoil.co or find Ben Perreau on LinkedIn. Subscribe: Enjoyed this deep dive on leadership? Hit subscribe on Thoughts on Selling so you never miss a conversation.

    42 min
  4. Scaling with Intelligence rather than Headcount, with Amos Bar-Jospeh

    12/23/2025

    Scaling with Intelligence rather than Headcount, with Amos Bar-Jospeh

    In this episode of Thoughts on Selling, I sit down with Amos Bar-Jospeh, a third-time entrepreneur connecting from Tel Aviv. Amos describes himself as an "anti-capitalist capitalist" -- someone who has rejected the old "growth at all costs" unicorn playbook in favor of a new model: the Autonomous Business. We dive deep into why the "raise a shit ton of money and hire 40 people before revenue" model is broken. Instead, Amos is building Swann, a company designed to scale with intelligence rather than headcount. We explore the concept of Human-AI collaboration (not replacement), why sales is a zero-sum game of attention and budget , and why the future of software isn't about "record and report," but about adaptive systems that wear the shape of your workflow. Key Findings & Takeaways: The "Unicorn Playbook" is Dead: The era of raising massive capital before finding product-market-fit is over. Amos advocates for scaling companies by discovering the "100x version" of each employee through AI augmentation rather than just adding bodies. Sales is a Zero-Sum Game: Attention and budget are finite. If everyone uses the same AI SDRs to spam the same buyers, no one wins. Success comes from being different, not just better, which requires human creativity. Zone of Genius: The goal of AI isn't to replace the human but to automate everything outside their "zone of genius" so they can focus on high-value interactions. The New Software Paradigm: We are moving from static software (like traditional CRMs) to adaptive software that learns your specific habits and feedback loops. It’s not about "more features" -- it’s about software that re-tailors itself to you every single day. System Interactions to Zero: For 20 years, CRMs promised to help us sell but became reporting burdens. The future is reducing system interactions to zero so sellers can spend 100% of their time on buyer interactions. Memorable Quotes: "I’m an anti-capitalist capitalist... I’ve realized... that playbook [growth at all costs] is not for me." — Amos Bar-Jospeh "It's a business that is designed to scale with intelligence, not with headcount." — Amos Bar-Jospeh "The future belongs to organizations that... turn each person on the team into their 100X version of themselves." — Amos Bar-Jospeh "We need to understand... not the AI replacing the AE, it's the AI taking the review process of that AE specifically, formalizing it and repeating it." — Amos Bar-Jospeh The Bottom Line:We are entering an era where "software" as we know it -- static tools we have to feed data into -- is becoming obsolete. The new winners will be organizations that master Human-AI Collaboration, creating feedback loops that allow AI to handle the mundane while humans drive the strategy. Call to Action: Audit Your Stack: Are your tools "recording and reporting" or are they actually adapting to your workflow? It might be time to demand more from your software. Join the Movement: Subscribe to Amos’s newsletter, The Big Shift, to follow the journey of building an autonomous business. Experiment: Try out Amos’s digital clone, "Autonomous," in the ChatGPT store to ask your own questions. Connect: Find Amos Bar-Jospeh on LinkedIn (he has over 30k followers for a reason!)

    38 min
  5. Beyond the Chatbot: How Agentic AI is revolutionizing Sales with Garth Fasano

    12/16/2025

    Beyond the Chatbot: How Agentic AI is revolutionizing Sales with Garth Fasano

    For this episode of Thoughts on Selling, Garth Fasano joins me to discuss the massive shift happening in inside sales. Garth Fasano is an ETA (Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition) entrepreneur and leader of a high-growth startup focused on autonomous sales. From sailing mishaps in Long Island Sound to the complexities of call center Erlang models, We discuss the evolution of the "inside sales" role and explore how "Agentic AI" is moving beyond simple decision trees to becoming the top-performing sales agent—one that is fully caffeinated and ready to sell 24/7. Key Findings & Takeaways: The "Best Day" Every Day: The biggest advantage of Agentic AI isn't just automation; it's consistency. Customers want the best agent on their best day, not an agent who is 175 calls deep at 5:00 PM. Small Business is Leading the Charge: Unlike enterprises bogged down by legacy CRM integrations, small businesses are adopting autonomous sales faster. They need to capture leads instantly (e.g., a 3 AM water damage call) without the owner having to answer the phone while working a job. Visibility as a Service: Autonomous agents don't just sell; they provide "visibility as a service." Instead of a business owner guessing why sales are down, the AI can proactively report, "Conversion is down 10% because of price objections." The End of "Typing While Talking": Traditional inside sales requires reps to juggle rapport building while furiously typing data into a CRM. Agentic AI removes this friction, capturing data instantly and allowing for better customer interaction. Bot-to-Bot Commerce: The future is already here. We are seeing "agentic to agentic" conversations, such as Google's AI calling businesses to check pricing and availability on behalf of consumers. Memorable Quotes: "They want them at their 9am fully caffeinated self ready to rock and roll, not their 5pm, 175 calls deep... self." — Garth Fasano "A sales call that's scripted... That's not how sales work. That's not how people buy." — Garth Fasano "Google knows how you search... Open AI knows what you're using this information for... we're going to start to know why customers are buying." — Garth Fasano Connect with Garth: LinkedIn: Garth Fasano X (Twitter): @GarthFasano

    38 min
  6. The Future of Sales is Looking Bright: Meet NISC Finalist and Super Star Nina Iannuzzi!

    12/09/2025

    The Future of Sales is Looking Bright: Meet NISC Finalist and Super Star Nina Iannuzzi!

    What do selling gum in the 5th grade and playing defense in hockey have in common with enterprise sales? According to Nina Iannuzzi, everything. In this episode, I sit down with Nina, a sophomore at the Isenberg School of Management (UMass Amherst) and a top-5 finalist at the recent National Intercollegiate Sales Competition (NISC). We relive the chaos of "speed selling" in a gym filled with 1,000 suits, discuss how to handle a curveball question from a CFO, and laugh about the moment I rudely interrupted her final sales pitch with a fake phone call. Nina brings an infectious energy that proves the future of sales is in very good hands. Whether you are a student, a sales leader, or just someone who appreciates the hustle, you will love her take on why "sucking it up" is the only way to win. Key Highlights & Takeaways: The Slime Economy: Nina’s sales career didn’t start at UMass; it started in 5th grade selling slime and gum to classmates. Defense Wins Championships: As a hockey player for 16 years (Left D!), Nina treats walking into a sales room like a puck drop: you know your job, now go execute. The "Scope" Stumble: Nina shares a vulnerable moment where a buyer kept asking about "scope," a term she wasn't fully sure how to handle in the moment. Her retrospective advice? Don't fake it—ask a clarifying question immediately. The Plot Twist: I threw a wrench in her final round by bursting in with a "phone call." Nina stayed so locked in she almost kicked me out of the room before realizing the "emergency" was just a timer on my iPhone! The Contract Slide: Nina admits her main goal wasn't just to chat—she literally slid a physical contract across the table at the 4-minute mark. Always be closing! Suck It Up, Buttercup: Her coach’s advice for sports and sales: if a lace breaks or a deal stalls, you don't call an Uber. You fix it and keep running. Memorable Quotes: "I’m a very big talker. I’m competitive... I started my first business in like fifth grade, just selling like slime and gum." — Nina Iannuzzi "You get in that room and... you sit down and you're like, I am SpotLogic... I almost wanted to act like we were friends." — Nina Iannuzzi "Suck it up buttercup or move on to bigger and better things." — Nina Iannuzzi Closing Thought:If you think the next generation of sales talent is "soft," you haven’t met Nina. Her "suck it up, buttercup" attitude is a wake-up call for seasoned professionals who might have gotten a little too comfortable. Nina proved that you don't need 20 years of experience to have sales instincts—you just need the courage to slide the contract across the table. Next Steps: Challenge Yourself: Take a page out of Nina's playbook this week. Be bold, ask the clarifying question, and don't let a "fake phone call" derail your pitch. Get Involved: Want to see this talent in action? Look into judging or sponsoring a collegiate competition like NISC. Connect: Follow Nina Iannuzzi on LinkedIn to follow her journey from UMass to the C-Suite.

    45 min
  7. The Invisible Manager: Scaling GTM & Knowing When to Stop Selling, with Sean Gannon

    12/05/2025

    The Invisible Manager: Scaling GTM & Knowing When to Stop Selling, with Sean Gannon

    I sit down with Sean Gannon, founder of GTMPPL (GTM People), to answer the "unanswerable" question: Who is Sean Gannon?. We dive into a refreshing take on sales leadership—why the best managers strive to make themselves obsolete—and explore the often friction-filled relationship between sales and marketing. From the trenches of EdTech to the nuances of Sandler training, Sean shares candid stories about the transition from "spreadsheet inspection" to true coaching. We also discuss why "everyone sells" (even if they don't have a quota) and share a hilarious cautionary tale about what happens when a salesperson sticks to the script even after the customer has said "yes." Key Highlights & Takeaways: The "Obsolete" Manager: Sean argues that a manager’s ultimate goal is to make themselves invisible and obsolete; if the team can't function without you, you aren't doing your job. Everyone is in Sales: Whether you are an SDR, a CSM, or pitching a project to your boss, everyone in the organization is selling something. Marketing vs. Sales: We dismantle the old school "throw it over the wall" mentality regarding leads. Sean emphasizes that while marketing provides air cover, they must care about close rates, not just lead volume. Coaching vs. Inspection: Sean opens up about his evolution from a manager who managed by spreadsheet to a leader who focused on coaching, which drastically improved his team's retention from 18 to 36 months. The Danger of the Script: A great lesson on reading the room—Sean shares a story where a salesperson kept taking him through the Sandler "pain funnel" even though Sean was already sold and ready to buy. Authenticity Wins: Why "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer that builds more rapport than faking it. Memorable Quotes: "I view my role as an executive or a sales manager... to make myself obsolete. Like, I should be relatively invisible as your manager." — Sean Gannon "Your job is to sell the meeting... not to sell the company, isn't to sell the solution." — Sean Gannon "The best sales enablement, you don't know what's being done to you. You don't know what's being done for you." — Lee Levitt Closing Thought:As Sean pointed out, the ultimate goal of a leader is to become "invisible"—building a team so competent and well-coached that they no longer need you to intervene. Are you managing by "inspection," looking for mistakes in a spreadsheet, or are you coaching for longevity?. This episode challenges us to stop hovering and start empowering Next Steps:If you are ready to build a revenue engine that scales (and maybe finally make yourself obsolete), go say hello to Sean. Visit: GTMPPL.com Connect: Find Sean Gannon on LinkedIn for his latest observations on the industry. Listen & Subscribe: Don’t miss an episode of Thoughts on Selling. Hit subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!

    38 min
  8. From Steeplechase Jockey to Data Geek: Mastering Sales with Diagnostics & Agentic AI with Maeve Ferguson

    12/01/2025

    From Steeplechase Jockey to Data Geek: Mastering Sales with Diagnostics & Agentic AI with Maeve Ferguson

    In this episode, I geek out with Maeve Ferguson, an ex-steeplechase jockey turned Big Four consultant and data expert. We dive deep into the often-overlooked power of diagnostic assessments and how "Agentic AI" is revolutionizing the way experts build sales funnels. Maeve shares how moving beyond simple "quiz funnels" to robust data diagnostics can uncover the gap between an entrepreneur's perception and their business reality, ultimately leading to higher-quality leads and closed deals. Key Highlights & Takeaways: The Power of Diagnostics: Maeve explains why diagnostic assessments are superior to standard lead magnets. They provide proprietary data that allows you to segment audiences by investment ability (Platinum to Bronze) and customize the sales journey based on their specific struggles. Unicorn Leadership Types: We discuss the "Ulta" framework—Visionizer, Strategizer, and Mobilizer. Understanding these profiles is critical not just for leadership, but for ensuring your sales and marketing teams aren't operating at cross-purposes. Agentic AI in Sales: Maeve reveals how she uses AI agents to run continuously in the background. These agents analyze who buys high-ticket items versus low-ticket items and automatically optimize ad copy to attract better buyers. The "Delulu" Factor: Data hates nature and never lies. Maeve shares amusing insights on how diagnostics expose the gap between where business owners feel they are versus what the numbers actually say—a critical leverage point for sales conversations. Sales Coaching Automation: We explore how AI agents now review sales call transcripts against frameworks to provide immediate, in-context coaching to sales reps, celebrating wins and flagging missed opportunities. Passion, Authenticity, and Curiosity: I challenge Maeve on her self-assessment as a salesperson, applying my three-part diagnostic for sales effectiveness. Resources Mentioned: Maeve’s Diagnostic: Impact Score Assessment Book Mentioned: Surrounded by Idiots by Thomas Erikson Connect with Maeve Ferguson: LinkedIn: Maeve Ferguson Substack: Maeve Ferguson This is one of the most high-energy, high-insight conversations we've had on the show! If you care about data, diagnostics, sales, or the future of AI-powered selling, you’re going to love this one.

    42 min
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The Thoughts On Selling™ podcast explores the issues in driving enterprise sales revenue through effective pipeline development, account planning and sales performance management. Join us to learn best practices and things to avoid, with the goal of maximizing the account penetration, customer share of wallet, customer satisfaction and sales productivity of your organization. For more information and to browse the podcast library, please visit http://podcast.thoughtsonselling.com

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