In this episode, I have the pleasure of speaking with Andy Mort. I think you will appreciate his wisdom, poetic way with words and sense of humor. Andy is a UK-based songwriter and musician whose work as a creativity coach explores the intersection of high sensitivity, creativity, and the influence of culture. Aside from sharing some of our own experiences with high sensitivity and gentle rebellion, we discuss various ways those of us with high sensitivity (as described by Elaine Aaron) might better align with our nature. We also discuss: * 00:00 — High Sensitivity and Its Misconceptions * 01:54 — The Concept of Differential Susceptibility and Environmental Impact * 03:47 — Andy Mort’s Journey Into Understanding Temperament and Sensitivity * 07:05 — The Discovery of the Highly Sensitive Person Trait and Its Biological Roots * 09:58 — The Idea of Being a Gentle Rebel and Leading With Authenticity * 14:51 — The Importance of Creating Supportive Environments for Sensitive People * 19:47 — Creativity as a Form of Self-Expression and Nervous System Regulation * 25:07 — The Role of Sensitivity in Leadership and Group Dynamics * 29:58 — The Challenges and Opportunities of Sharing Creative Work * 34:46 — The Societal Narratives Around Sensitivity and Self-Acceptance * 39:57 — The Importance of Community and Support for Sensitive Individuals * 45:06 — The Concept of Gentle Rebellion and Aligning With One’s Nature * 49:45 — Closing Thoughts on Sensitivity, Creativity, and Leadership Full transcript included below Where to find Andy Mort: * 🔗 Website: andymort.com * 🏡 The Haven (his coaching community for gentle rebels): the-haven.co * 🎧 The Gentle Rebel Podcast on Apple Podcasts: listen here * 📺 The Gentle Rebel Podcast on YouTube: watch here As always, I welcome your thoughts and questions. Until next time,Courtney Dr. Courtney Snyder MD is a holistic and functional psychiatrist for children and adults. Find her at courtneysnydermd.com and on the Holistic Psychiatry Podcast on all major platforms and on YouTube. Medical Disclaimer: This newsletter is for educational purposes only and is not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Consult your own physician for any medical issues you may be having. Full Transcript Introduction to High Sensitivity and Its Misconceptions 00:00 Courtney: I was just reading on your website, how nicely you ask, “ What drew you here.” And you say — “you might have been told you’d solve your innate sensitivity by toughening up and squeezing yourself into a shape and rhythm you don’t belong to. But sensitivity is not a problem to fix. Working with it may require a creative way of understanding yourself, and of building environments and rhythms that support you.” Seems fitting with what we’re gonna talk about. Andy Mort: Yeah, that’s good — it all, it all fits, it all relates together, yeah. Courtney: It does. I should tell you too, the last podcast was on high sensitivity in children — helping parents sort of create environments for highly sensitive children to thrive. But this is more about how we can create our own lives. I think we’ll see where our conversation evolves, but how — how can we as adults do that? The Concept of Differential Susceptibility and Environmental Impact 01:54 Andy Mort: Yeah, I think those two things are two sides of the same coin. And in the, I guess, the context of environmental sensitivity — I don’t know if you talked about sort of differential susceptibility, and that research that’s shown how the more sensitive you are, the more affected you are by your environment. And so for children — those early years’ environments are really important, in terms of, for better or worse, a sensitive child is impacted by their environment, and they will thrive and flourish if it’s nurturing and supportive, and vice versa if it’s not. But as we will, I think, talk about — that is not the end of the story. It’s not that there’s this sort of deterministic element that means you will forever be screwed as a sensitive person if you grow up in a non-supportive environment. Courtney: Yeah. Andy Mort: And there are things that we can get in place around us today that actually start to heal that stuff — Courtney: Right. Andy Mort: — if it’s gone wrong. Courtney: Yeah, a lot of what I try to share is how people can lower that physiologic stress response — whether it’s related to toxins, trauma, early attachment. But included in that, and which I have never until recently spent time on, is how not being in alignment with our temperament would be creating a chronic physiologic stress response. You’ve been teaching, talking about high sensitivity — is it twelve years now, or is that really when your community started? Andy Mort’s Journey Into Understanding Temperament and Sensitivity 03:47 Andy Mort: Yeah, the community started twelve years ago, 2014. And for a few years before that, I was exploring it really out of, I guess, the background was my music, as a songwriter and as a performer. I was exploring aspects of temperament and personality as it came up — as it was relevant, really, because I’ve found myself struggling with certain elements of going out on tour, being — yeah — both on the road and also at shows themselves, where it’s like, man, my energy is just depleted at certain points. And I’m finding myself energized by other things that don’t make a whole lot of sense when I speak to other people, who are like, how can you get on stage and perform? It’s like, well, that’s the part I love, that’s where I’m in my happy place. It’s the navigating to the venues, working out what am I going to eat, where am I — like, all of that sort of the details around it, like that. That was the stress for me. And so, started hearing or reading — there was articles about introversion, the first time I’d heard about introverts and extroverts at that point — and that just took me, I guess, down a rabbit hole that ended up with me talking about it, and then people responding to it, saying, that sounds like me, that’s similar to this situation I have at work. And it just all — yeah, I guess — kind of moved together, and ended up with me somewhat accidentally creating the community, but as a place for people to just gather and share those sorts of experiences, and for me to workshop things and stuff as well. Yeah, was never an intention — which is a theme in my life. But then I kept seeing this term, highly sensitive person, coming up, and dismissed it over and over, because it didn’t feel particularly relevant. I think it was — as I’ve reflected on it, sort of in the years since — it’s the word “highly” rather than “sensitive” that I have a bit of a resistance to, because, like, to me, “highly” is associated with, like, being very highly strung, or, like, high — it’s like very high frequency, like the opposite of me, because I’m quite chilled out and calm — Courtney: Right. Mm-hmm. Andy Mort: — in situations and things like that. So yeah, highly sensitive was like — yeah, that combo doesn’t work. The Discovery of the Highly Sensitive Person Trait and Its Biological Roots 07:05 Andy Mort: But then I just clicked through on one of these articles at some point, and landed on Elaine Aron’s initial self-test list. And for so many of the things, I was like — yeah. All but about three or four of them sounded right. And that made so much more sense as an underlying biological trait, rather than a personality type — because that allows for — Courtney: Mm-hmm. Right. Andy Mort: — like, all sorts of personalities, and preferences, and tastes, and all of that sort of stuff. It’s like, that’s more freeing, rather than what I kept seeing in these Myers-Briggs profiles, was — I’m being pushed into a box here, where the question is, do I rebel against that, or do I try and conform to how I’m supposed to be, given that I’ve got this label that I’m, you know, is defining me in some way. Yes. Courtney: Right. And so this idea of there being just diversity within high sensitivity — I hesitate to categorize people, and at the same time, the language helps people to make sense of their experience, and how they might make choices for themselves. Your podcast — has that been in parallel? Andy Mort: Yeah, I mean, that’s been in parallel with my own journey. It’s morphed — when I first did it, it was called Sheep Dressed Like Wolves, which I come back to now and, like, I quite like that title — because it was just this idea of, yeah, like, what we’re pushed to be when we’re pushed to be sort of hyper-individualistic. And it was like a play on “a wolf in sheep’s clothing,” the wolf that goes in and takes over the herd — but actually, to flip it around, and to think about how, actually, no, we are social creatures, but we’re forced to dress up like wolves. And what if — what if there was, yeah, another approach? But anyway, I let go of that, because I think I got lost in the metaphor, and then changed it to the Gentle Rebel Podcast — because that term just captured it better. That was in 2014 as well, when I started the community. And I think it just captured the essence of what I kept seeing in people who were identifying with this trait of high sensitivity, and how there’s a nonconformity to the expectations that the world has for people, when it comes to actually navigating the world with a highly sensitive temperament — you need to do things differently. And there’s also a part of us that wants to do things differently, a lot of the time — and you kind of see, like, when you’re sort of noticing thing patterns, noticing subtleties, noticing the effect that things might be having, whether it’s individual people or c