Tried and Tested Podcast

PSI Services
  • 5.0 (3)
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Welcome to PSI’s Tried and Tested Podcast, hosted by Isabelle Gonthier. Tune in every other Thursday for expert conversations on testing, credentialing, and assessment. Each episode explores industry trends, practical insights, and the real work behind high stakes testing, featuring leaders and practitioners shaping the future of the assessment industry.

  1. 6d ago

    Test Security, Agentic AI, and the Future of Assessment with Paul Muir from risr/

    As assessment programs confront increasingly sophisticated fraud and rapid advances in Artificial Intelligence, protecting trust and integrity has never been more complex. In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP sits down with Paul Muir, Chief Customer Officer at risr/ and Board Chair of the Association of Test Publishers, for a candid conversation recorded live at the ATP Innovations in Testing Conference. With more than 25 years in the assessment industry, Paul shares a front‑line perspective on test security, the rise of agentic AI, and the evolving role of industry collaboration. Together, they explore how assessment leaders can move from reactive security measures to more strategic, forward‑looking approaches, and how ATP is helping guide the community through a period of rapid technological change. What you’ll learn: How the test security threat landscape is evolving, including organized cheating, content harvesting, and increasingly sophisticated fraud techniquesWhere assessment and credentialing programs remain most vulnerable today, and why keeping pace with fraud is such a challengeWhat agentic AI means in the context of assessment, and how more autonomous systems introduce both new risks and new opportunitiesHow AI can be used proactively to strengthen test security rather than simply reacting to emerging threatsHow Paul’s dual perspective as a technology leader and ATP Board Chair informs his view of where assessment is headedThe role ATP plays in helping the industry navigate innovation, security, and trust during periods of rapid changeWhy collaboration and community engagement are critical to protecting the integrity of assessment programsWho should listen: Assessment and credentialing leaders responsible for program integrityTest security, compliance, and risk professionalsEducation and assessment technology providersOrganizations exploring or deploying AI in assessment programsATP members and professionals engaged in the broader assessment communityAbout the guest:Paul Muir serves as the Chief Customer Officer at risr/ and currently holds the position of Board Chair for the Association of Test Publishers (ATP). With over 25 years of experience in the assessment sector, Paul is an experienced leader and active volunteer, specialising in areas such as test security, assessment reform, technology-enabled assessment, and Artificial Intelligence. Since joining risr/ in 2024, Paul, who is based in the UK, has been responsible for driving thought leadership, developing strategic partnerships, and fostering engagement across the industry, community, and customer base.

    38 min

  2. May 14

    Serious Games and Authentic Assessment with Jenn McNamara from BreakAway Games

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD,- ICE CCP, Chief Assessment Officer at PSI and ETS, sits down with Jenn McNamara, Vice President of Strategic Products and Partnerships at BreakAway Games. Recorded live at the ATP Conference, the conversation explores how serious games are being used to support authentic, performance based assessment across defense, healthcare, and professional credentialing programs. Jenn shares how game based environments can capture real world decision making, reduce traditional test effects, and provide richer evidence of readiness than item based assessments alone. The discussion also covers the role of AI in game design and assessment delivery, the importance of accessibility by design, and what emerging innovation trends signal about the future of assessment. What you’ll learn: How “serious games” are defined and how they differ from surface level gamificationWhy authenticity, particularly cognitive fidelity, matters more than visual realism in assessment designWhat immersive, strategy based environments can reveal about real world decision making, stress, and readinessHow independent research and validation help make game based assessment credible and defensible in high stakes contextsWhere serious games are most effective in assessment programs, and where assessment leaders should be cautiousHow AI is influencing the future of immersive assessment, including adaptive scenarios and content variation, while maintaining rigor and fairnessWho should listen: Credentialing and certification leaders exploring authentic or performance based assessment approachesAssessment professionals seeking new ways to evaluate decision making, judgment, and applied skillsPsychometricians and assessment designers interested in emerging item types and validation modelsProgram owners responsible for accessibility, candidate experience, and exam integrityTesting and education technology professionals tracking the role of serious games and AI in assessment About the Guest: Jenn McNamara is Vice President of Strategic Products and Partnerships at BreakAway Games, focused on delivering immersive solutions for education, assessment, and performance support. With over 25 years of experience in cognitive psychology, serious games, and AI-driven systems research and development, Jenn is a recognized leader and trusted partner raising the standard of advanced, technology-driven learning and assessment for defense, healthcare, and corporate sectors. Jenn’s pioneering design and development approaches set the accessibility standard for serious games. She speaks frequently at conferences including I/ITSEC, ATP Innovations in Testing, Serious Play, and Games for Change. In volunteer support of the industry, Jenn also directs the nonprofit Serious Games Showcase & Challenge and serves in leadership roles with the NDIA Human Systems Conference, Serious Play Conference, and ATP Innovations in Testing Conference.

    36 min

  3. Apr 30

    Libby Rodney from The Harris Poll on the 2026 ETS Human Progress Report: Adaptability, Credentials & Opportunity

    This is our 50th episode of Tried & Tested and we’re marking the milestone with a conversation about what may be one of the biggest questions facing the workforce right now: how do people prove what they can do as change accelerates? Host Isabelle Gonthier welcomes Libby Rodney, Chief Strategy Officer at The Harris Poll, to unpack what “proof” looks like in today’s disrupted environment and why credentials are increasingly tied to confidence, mobility, and opportunity. Drawing on The Harris Poll research behind the 2026 ETS Human Progress Report, Libby Rodney explains how leaders can move beyond noisy narratives and toward signals that actually matter, especially as workers face rapid disruption, shifting skill demands, and rising pressure to demonstrate adaptability. Together, they explore the widening gap between interest and access, the need for clearer employer signals about what’s valued, and why the future of credentialing depends on trust, alignment, and measurable evidence, not just storytelling. What you’ll learn: What “proof of skills” really means in a labor market shaped by constant disruption and why workers are seeking evidence they can carry across roles and industries.How the 2026 ETS Human Progress Report was designed, including the role of benchmarking and how the focus evolved toward adaptability as a cornerstone theme.Why credentials are rising in importance right now, including the connection between workplace anxiety and the need for verifiable evidence of capability.What’s driving the demand vs. access gap (high interest, lower access), and the practical barriers that keep people from pursuing credentials.Why employer clarity is the unlock: what workers need employers to specify about which credentials matter, and why ambiguity discourages investment before cost even enters the picture.How AI is reshaping credential expectations, including why many workers want formal certification to verify AI skills, and why “using AI” isn’t the same as using it well.Who should listen: Credentialing, certification, and assessment leaders designing programs that must earn trust and prove value.Employers, HR, and workforce strategy teams deciding which skills and credentials matter most.Education and training leaders working to close the gap between learning pathways and real-world opportunity.About the guest: A scenario planner, cultural strategist, and navigation expert, Libby Rodney serves as Chief Strategy Officer at The Harris Poll where she helps Fortune 100 executives decode uncertainty and navigate transformational change.  Creator of “The Next Big Think!” substack and co-host of “So Get This” podcast (new on Bubbler/iHeart Radio), her cultural intelligence framework has predicted major shifts including “quiet vacationing,” FOBO (fear of being obsolete), and the “lottery over logic economy.”  Libby has commanded global stages at Davos, Cannes Lions, SXSW, Forbes CMO summit, Ad Week, and CES, establishing her as the go-to cultural decoder for organizations seeking to see around corners.  Libby’s insights have been featured across major media outlets where she has become known for revealing not just what’s trending, but what companies must pay attention to in the next 18 months.

    36 min

  4. Apr 16

    Closing the Modality Gap: How TOEFL Built Trust in Remote Testing

    As questions around remote testing and test security continue to surface across the assessment landscape, how can programs move beyond perception and focus on evidence? In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier is joined by Paul Gollash, SVP of TOEFL and GRE at ETS, and Wally Dalrymple, Chief Security Officer at PSI and ETS, for a timely conversation on trust, data, and delivery modalities. Together, they explore how the TOEFL program has evolved a layered security model across both test center and remote delivery. The result is measurable outcomes showing that differences between remote and test center delivery have narrowed to a minimal level. From identity verification and fraud indicators to data driven decision making and continuous improvement, this episode offers a practical and credible look at how security, scale, and trust come together in modern assessment programs. What you’ll learn: Why remote testing and test center delivery have distinct risk profiles, and how purpose built security approaches for each modality strengthen overall test integrityHow the TOEFL program designed and evolved a layered security model that spans the full assessment lifecycle, from registration and identity verification through delivery, review, and continuous improvementWhat layered security looks like in practice, including how multiple controls work together to deter fraud, detect risk, and protect score integrity when individual signals alone are insufficientHow ETS and PSI measure the real-world impact of specific security controls, including what the data reveals when individual layers are modified or removedWhy outcome based measures, such as score patterns and pass rate alignment, provide a more meaningful indicator of trust than incident counts or flagged events aloneHow operating at global scale enables stronger pattern detection, faster response to emerging threats, and continuous refinement of security strategies across programs and modalitiesHow AI is influencing both sides of the equation, accelerating new forms of fraud while also strengthening detection, analysis, and decision-making within modern test security programsWhat assessment leaders should consider as trust, security, and delivery models continue to evolve in an environment where risk, technology, and stakeholder expectations are constantly changingWho should listen: Assessment, credentialing, and certification leaders responsible for program integrity and long term trustTest security, fraud prevention, and risk professionals designing or evaluating security models across delivery modalitiesHigher education institutions, regulators, and score accepting organizations seeking evidence based perspectives on remote testing outcomesProgram owners and product leaders balancing access, candidate experience, and rigorous security requirementsOrganizations navigating concern around the credibility of remote English language testing and other high stakes assessments

    32 min

  5. Apr 8

    Policy, Partnership, and Access: Massachusetts’ Approach to Adult Education

    In this special HiSET edition of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP welcomes vice president of the HiSET program Tanya Guerrero Haug, who sits down with Wyvonne Stevens‑Carter, Associate Commissioner for Public Adult Education at the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education. Recorded live at the HiSET Boston Roadshow, the conversation highlights how Massachusetts is expanding access to high school equivalency through statewide funding, flexible transcript policies, and partnerships that prioritize learner experience. Isabelle and Tanya also reflect on why the Massachusetts model stands out across the nation. From student ambassadors and staff pipelines to community‑driven innovation, this episode shows what is possible when policies remove barriers and adult learners are invited to lead. It is a compelling look at how assessment can open doors for individuals, families, and entire communities. What you’ll learn: How Massachusetts funds high school equivalency testing statewide and why this increases access for learners. Why the skills gap may actually be an investment gap and what this means for workforce development. How student ambassadors and student‑to‑staff pipelines create new opportunities for adult learners. The role partnerships play in strengthening adult education and supporting diverse learner needs. Key policy decisions that made Massachusetts a national example in high school equivalency access.Who should listen: Adult education leaders, instructors, and administratorsWorkforce development and policy professionalsCredentialing and assessment partners working to improve accessEmployers seeking to better understand the value adult learners bringAnyone committed to building opportunity through education and assessmentAbout the Guests Tanya Guerrero Haug, Vice President of HiSET, oversees the HiSET Program supporting the 30 states and territories that have adopted the HiSET. In this role, Tanya coordinates with the PSI HiSET Program teams, the HiSET Board, state directors and administrators, adult education providers, test centers, employers, and higher education institutions. Tanya’s team is directly responsible for HiSET contracts and partnerships, the HiSET suite of products, and adult education outreach. She oversees the HiSET webinars and conferences to keep professional development and program updates accessible. For more than 20 years, she has demonstrated her commitment to education by the various positions she has held in the industry and by her active community service. Wyvonne Stevens Carter is a senior education and workforce systems leader with deep expertise in adult education policy, cross agency alignment, and public investment strategy. As Associate Commissioner of Adult and Community Learning Services at the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education, she leads statewide efforts to strengthen adult learning systems that advance economic mobility, workforce readiness, and civic participation. Her work centers on designing and operating large scale public systems, aligning state and federal policy, funding, and accountability to ensure adult learners can access high quality pathways into postsecondary education, credentials, and family sustaining employment. She oversees complex funding portfolios, guides competitive procurements and performance based initiatives, and translates policy into clear operational frameworks that support implementation at scale. She brings particular strengths in state and federal policy implementation across adult education, workforce, and career pathways; systems integration spanning education, workforce development, and economic development; equity driven strategy and governance; fiscal oversight and public investment stewardship; data informed accountability and continuous improvement; and partnership development with government agencies, employers, higher education, and community organizations.

    41 min

  6. Mar 25

    The Future of Graduate Admissions and Assessment: Insights from GMAC’s Ashok Sarathy

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP, speaks with Ashok Sarathy, Vice President of Assessment Products at GMAC, about the evolving role of assessment in global graduate management education. Drawing on more than two decades in the assessment industry, Ashok shares how GMAC has continuously adapted the GMAT and its broader assessment portfolio to meet changing candidate, institutional, and workforce needs. Recorded live in India during the i-ATP conference, the conversation explores global student mobility, holistic admissions, and the growing pressure on assessments to be more flexible, digital, and candidate-centered, while still maintaining rigor. Ashok discusses how technology and AI can improve preparation, fairness, and efficiency, while also highlighting where caution and strong governance remain essential. What you’ll learn: How GMAC approaches the balance between assessment rigor and candidate experienceWhy holistic admissions models are reshaping the role of standardized testingKey barriers students face when pursuing global graduate management educationHow assessments can better reflect real-world and workforce-relevant skillsWhere AI can enhance personalization, scale, and fairness in assessment designWhy human-in-the-loop oversight remains critical when applying AI in testingWhat the future of admission testing may look like, including lower-stakes pathwaysWho should listen: Assessment and testing professionals navigating digital and AI-enabled changeHigher education leaders involved in admissions and student mobility strategyCredentialing and assessment program owners balancing rigor and experienceTest development and product leaders responsible for portfolio strategyOrganizations exploring the future of admissions testing and candidate pathwaysAbout the Guest: Ashok Sarathy is Vice President, Assessment Products at GMAC and a former Chair of the Board of Directors of the Association of Test Publishers (ATP). At GMAC he is responsible for establishing the Assessment Portfolio Strategy, identifying opportunities for new Assessments and has P&L responsibility of the portfolio. Ashok has spent than 22 years in the assessment industry, initially enabling GMAC to transition the development and the delivery of the GMAT exam to new partners and in the process redefined the digital user experience associated with taking the GMAT exam. He implemented several innovations to improve the integrity of the GMAT Test. Later he launched the Next Generation GMAT exam, adding a new “Integrated Reasoning” section to the exam with input from faculty at business schools. He then assumed a product management role responsible for the P&L of the key products within the council’s assessment portfolio, launching new assessments like the NMAT exam and other candidate-friendly enhancements that enabled test takers to embark on their journey towards a management career. He developed and implemented the strategy to overhaul the supply chain necessary to deliver the portfolio of Assessment Products to drive market relevance, establish core capabilities and drive operational effectiveness. In 2020 he led the move to have GMAC’s suite of Assessment Products (the GMAT, the NMAT and the Executive Assessment) delivered online at the onset of COVID-19. He also evolved the customer care model to drive a timely and more satisfying response to candidate inquiries. Managing the intersection between applicants and management institutions, Ashok is always looking to develop and enhance assessments that are relevant, efficient and offer great test taking experience.

    42 min

  7. Mar 11

    Reimagining Performance-Based Assessment with Immersive Simulation: A Conversation with SentiraXR’s Jeremy Carter

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP, speaks with Jeremy Carter, CEO of SentiraXR, about immersive simulations and the future of assessment. Jeremy shares how immersive environments can move learners beyond learning about a situation and into performing inside a realistic scenario, allowing assessment teams to observe competency, decision making, reasoning, and communication in real time. Jeremy explains how SentiraXR uses immersive simulation and AI-driven patient avatars to support authentic conversations, standardized scenarios, and detailed data capture. They discuss anytime and anywhere access through browser-based delivery, how rich interaction data can feed rubric-based reporting and learner feedback, and why a human in the loop approach is critical when using AI in assessment. The conversation also covers practical adoption guidance, including starting with one high-value scenario, maintaining sound assessment design principles, and treating implementation as a change management project. What you’ll learn: How immersive simulation differs from traditional e-learning for assessing competencyWhat real-time performance data can reveal, including decisions, reasoning, and communicationHow AI avatars support more natural, conversation-based assessment scenariosWhy standardized virtual scenarios create a more consistent experience for learnersHow transcription, data capture, and rubrics enable richer feedback for learners and educatorsWhat to consider when piloting immersive assessment, including starting with one high-value scenarioWhy human-in-the-loop review and AI guardrails matter in assessment use casesWhere immersive assessment is heading next, including adaptive approaches and psychometrics Who should listen: Credentialing and certification teams exploring performance-based and skills-based assessmentAssessment leaders looking for more authentic ways to evaluate communication and real-time decision makingProgram owners working with practical assessment formats who want more standardized scenariosAssessment designers and SMEs involved in scenario design and rubric developmentEducation and testing technology professionals evaluating XR delivery models, browser-based access, and AI avatarsOrganizations focused on fairness, consistency, and learner preparation through repeatable practice and feedback About the Guest: Jeremy Carter is CEO and co-founder of Sentira XR, a University of Manchester spin-out developing immersive simulations and AI-enabled tools for education. With over 25 years’ experience in learning and assessment technology, Jeremy has worked with universities, professional bodies and awarding organisations to modernise how skills are taught and evaluated. He regularly speaks about the future of assessment and the role of emerging technologies in supporting authentic learning and skills development. If you found this conversation valuable, subscribe to Tried and Tested for more expert insights on credentialing, assessment, test security, and exam integrity. In This Episode: 00:00 Intro00:45 Meet Jeremy Carter, CEO of SentiraXR03:01 Immersive Simulation vs Traditional E-Learning06:08 How XR Supports Performance-Based Assessment07:47 Anytime, Anywhere Access to Immersive Assessment11:20 How Simulation Data Improves Feedback and Evaluation15:02 Moving from Traditional Exams to Immersive Simulations19:26 Balancing Assessment Rigor with New Technology23:11 Accessibility and Fairness in Immersive Simulations27:39 The Future of Assessment: XR, AI, and Data31:50 Advice for Assessment Leaders Exploring Immersive Tools36:03 Closing Thoughts

    36 min

  8. Feb 26

    The Rising Threat of Biometric Fraud: Insights with Entrust’s Ian Cartledge

    In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP speaks with Ian Cartledge from Entrust about identity verification and the evolving fraud landscape impacting credentialing and high-stakes testing. As online testing and digital registration processes expand, identity verification plays an increasingly important role in protecting exam integrity and ensuring the right candidate is taking the test. Referencing Entrust’s seventh annual Identity Fraud Report, which draws on more than one billion identity verification transactions across 195 countries, Ian discusses the rise in AI-enabled fraud, including deepfakes, injection attacks, and commercially organized fraud operations. The conversation explores how baseline identity verification, biometric and biographic matching, liveness detection, motion analysis, and layered verification approaches can help assessment programs reduce risk while managing friction in the test taker experience. What You’ll Learn How AI-enabled fraud is becoming more organized, commercially accessible, and scalableWhy deepfakes are increasing across industries and the implications for online testingWhat injection attacks are and how synthetic video can be used to bypass identity checksHow liveness detection and motion analysis help identify impersonation attemptsThe importance of establishing a secure baseline identity during registrationHow layered identity verification tools can be used across the assessment lifecycleWhy balancing security controls with reduced friction is critical for candidate experienceWho should listen: Credentialing and certification leaders responsible for exam integrityAssessment professionals managing online testing or remote deliveryLicensure program directors evaluating identity verification practicesTest security and compliance teams monitoring fraud riskOrganizations seeking to strengthen identity verification within existing assessment processes Guest: Ian Cartledge, UK Home Office Senior Liaison, Entrust Ian Cartledge is a seasoned executive leader with over 30 years of industry consulting experience delivering complex digital transformation journeys with a special focus on the public sector. He has served as a trusted advisor on numerous large-scale public-private partnerships, applying his deep understanding of market drivers and cross-sector innovation to optimize organizational efficiency and profitability. Currently, as Entrust’s senior liaison with the UK Home Office, Ian plays a pivotal role in strategic government relations for identity verification and digital identity solutions. Ian will provide actionable insights on establishing secure and trusted identity ecosystems between citizens, governments, and global service providers, illustrated with real-world examples. If you found this conversation valuable, subscribe to Tried and Tested for more expert insights on credentialing, assessment security, and exam integrity.

    33 min
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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

Welcome to PSI’s Tried and Tested Podcast, hosted by Isabelle Gonthier. Tune in every other Thursday for expert conversations on testing, credentialing, and assessment. Each episode explores industry trends, practical insights, and the real work behind high stakes testing, featuring leaders and practitioners shaping the future of the assessment industry.

Information

  • Creator
    PSI Services
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    53
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © PSI Services
  • Show Website
    Tried and Tested Podcast

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