In Conversation with Julie Segal

Institutional Investor
  • 5.0 (5)
  • Investing
  • Updated Biweekly

In Conversation with Julie Segal is a dialogue with the people who have shaped and continue to influence the world of institutional investors. The podcast will feature both familiar names talking about new ideas and upstarts who want to do things differently.

  1. Cheyne's Stuart Fiertz on Private Credit's Slow-Motion Stress Test

    5d ago

    Cheyne's Stuart Fiertz on Private Credit's Slow-Motion Stress Test

    In this episode, I spoke with Stuart Fiertz, co-founder and president of Cheyne Capital. I've known Stuart for years and one of the things I appreciate most about him is his willingness to say things that many people in the industry are thinking but few will say publicly. This conversation was a good example. We started with private credit, because, well, there’s a lot to say. Stuart argued that many of the concerns he and other investors have raised over the years are beginning to surface. He discusses the rise of payment-in-kind loans, concentration in software and technology, and why he believes the industry still hasn't fully absorbed the consequences of the dramatic interest-rate shift that began in 2020. As Stuart put it: "You just can't have such a momentous change in an interest-rate regime and not have fallout from that." But he doesn't expect a dramatic collapse. In fact, the industry has become remarkably good, perhaps too good, at delaying any reckoning. Loose covenants, refinancing activity, continuation vehicles, evergreen capital, and fresh sources of funding are all helping extend the credit cycle. The problems are showing up, Stuart argues, but they're unfolding far more slowly than many expected. We also discussed what may ultimately unlock the industry's enormous backlog of unsold private companies. Stuart has been thinking about this question for a while. When he entered the business, private equity often created significant value by taking public companies private and improving them. Today, many businesses have been passed from one sponsor to another through multiple ownership cycles.Stuart’s question is a simple one: "Who is leaving value on the table?" he asked. His point was not simply that valuations remain too high. “I think there's a little bit of a challenge here that is more fundamental than I think people realize. It's part that the lemon's been squeezed. I think it's going to take a meaningful valuation haircut to move them. And I'm just not sure why the PE firms would mark them down.” We also get into why Stuart believes transparency may be the industry's biggest challenge. He argues that investors, regulators, and managers would all benefit from more consistent reporting and warns that private credit firms risk inviting heavy-handed regulation if they don't become more forthcoming about what is happening inside portfolios. And there’s more. Listen in for other topics and tidbits we covered:• The difference between "cockroaches" and "termites" when assessing risk in credit markets• Why semi-liquid credit funds may increase cyclicality and pressure managers to deploy capital• Whether the industry's push into retail was driven more by asset gathering than investor need and why it matters• What continuation funds reveal about today's private equity exit environment• Why Europe remains both attractive and frustrating for private market investors

    48 min
  2. Private Markets’ New Tension: Retail and Institutional Investors Collide

    Apr 30

    Private Markets’ New Tension: Retail and Institutional Investors Collide

    In this episode, I speak with Luke Sarsfield of Ridgepost Capital about what’s actually changing in private markets — and what isn’t. At the center of our conversation is a tension that’s easy to miss: investors in private markets aren’t just dealing with slower distributions or questions about liquidity. They’re adjusting to a broader mix of investors that are participating, but don’t behave the same way when markets turn. We also discuss:• How institutional investors are thinking about the flow of capital — with distributions taking longer and recycling becoming less predictable• What the last real stress test for private markets during the financial crisis taught investors — and what’s different this time• Why more than 80 percent of capital gets invested in 10 to 15 percent of private companies and what it says that the top financial firms “climb over each other” to finance and invest in them.• How investors should think about putting money to work during dislocations, a fundamental tenet of investing — and why some are leaning in while others hesitate• What risks may be building outside of private credit that investors seem to be ignoring

    58 min
  3. Why Guardian’s Nick Liolis Blew Up the Insurance CIO Playbook

    Apr 23

    Why Guardian’s Nick Liolis Blew Up the Insurance CIO Playbook

    In this episode, Nick Liolis explains how Guardian reworked its investment model, moving its investment function into partnerships with HPS Investment Partners, Janus Henderson, and Hamilton Lane. Instead of simply allocating capital, the firm consolidated mandates, transferred teams, and structured those relationships to share in the upside — not just pay fees — while keeping core decisions around asset allocation, risk, and liabilities in-house. Nick’s initial pitch, which would affect a lot of people and shake up the company’s structure, got buy-in for an unexpected reason: for years, private equity’s big, sometimes controversial, bet on insurance showed just how profitable managing these portfolios could be. We also talk about private credit — and why some of the current anxiety around the asset class looks a little different from an insurance perspective. While risks are building in more leveraged, growth-dependent parts of the market, Liolis emphasizes that insurance portfolios remain heavily investment grade, shaped by regulation, long-dated liabilities, and a focus on predictability. Along the way, he pushes back on some common assumptions, acknowledges real risks, and raises the psychological issue around a lack of transparency — when investors don’t have perfect information, they tend to fill in the gaps with worst-case scenarios. The conversation also covers:• Why lack of transparency in private markets leads investors to assume the worst — even when fundamentals haven’t changed• Why “private” doesn’t automatically mean riskier• How scale is shifting power toward large asset managers — and forcing insurers to rethink how they access deals and talent At a moment when parts of credit are being tested, Liolis asks whether investors understand what they actually own, and who is really capturing the value. In doing so, he didn’t just restructure Guardian’s investment function — he blew up the traditional insurance CIO model and made sure Guardian shared in the upside from asset managers.

    42 min
  4. If Your Credit Relies on Growth, Avoiding Disruption, and IPO Exits, It Starts to Look a Lot Like Equity

    Apr 16

    If Your Credit Relies on Growth, Avoiding Disruption, and IPO Exits, It Starts to Look a Lot Like Equity

    Julie Segal speaks with Hamza Lemssouguer about the evolution of credit markets and the risks emerging in parts of private credit. They discuss how Europe’s fragmented system differs from the U.S., how the post-2022 shift in rates and liquidity is reshaping opportunities, and why some credit strategies are becoming more dependent on growth, capital markets access, and exit conditions. As Hamza explains that last point, “The true value of credit is that you're not relying on equity growth. If part of your credit portfolio, which is the big problem today, relies on growth, relies on AI disruption not happening… relies on the IPO market for exits, then that's too many conditions. And then those credit investments start to look a lot more like equity.”And that’s a problem. The conversation also explores whether emerging stress in private credit could create new opportunities for investors positioned to be flexible across public and private markets. Take a listen and email me with your thoughts and ideas at ⁠⁠jsegal@institutionalinvestor.com⁠⁠.

    48 min
  5. Dimensional’s Gerard O’Reilly on the Shift Back to Public Markets

    Mar 27

    Dimensional’s Gerard O’Reilly on the Shift Back to Public Markets

    After years of directing time, attention, and capital toward private markets, institutional investors are taking a fresh look at whether they underinvested — intellectually and operationally  — in public markets.Gerard O’Reilly, co-CEO of Dimensional Fund Advisors, said many large investors are reassessing their approach after treating public markets largely as a low-cost, passive allocation. With volatility and concentration in major benchmarks rising — and more scrutiny on how portfolios are actually implemented — some are asking whether they left returns on the table.That reassessment is less about shifting from passive to active, and more about how “passive” is executed in practice.Dimensional, which is built around the idea that markets are broadly efficient, does not try to outguess them in a traditional sense. But unlike rigid index-tracking approaches, it allows for more flexibility in how portfolios are constructed and traded.O’Reilly pointed to index rebalancing as one example, where funds tracking an index may be forced to buy stocks after prices have risen and sell after they have fallen. “Those are mechanical trades,” he said. “You’re not necessarily getting the best price — you’re just following the rule.”“You don’t need to add more uncertainty than markets already give you,” O’Reilly said. “The question is whether you can improve outcomes without sacrificing discipline.”For institutions coming back to public markets, that may be less about picking winners — and more about how those portfolios are actually built and traded.

    43 min
  6. The Political Fight Over Who Gets to Own -- and Rent -- America’s Houses

    Mar 13

    The Political Fight Over Who Gets to Own -- and Rent -- America’s Houses

    Amherst Group CEO Sean Dobson discusses the push to restrict institutional homebuyers, his work with lawmakers in Washington, and the politics driving the debate over single-family rentals. Take a listen and email me with your thoughts and ideas at ⁠jsegal@institutionalinvestor.com⁠.

    1 hr
  7. Manulife CQS’s Soraya Chabarek on Credit, Succession, M&A Pitfalls, and What Makes Investment Firms Last

    Jan 22

    Manulife CQS’s Soraya Chabarek on Credit, Succession, M&A Pitfalls, and What Makes Investment Firms Last

    I first got to know Soraya Chabarek the way many relationships now begin: entirely on screen. Meeting in person was different. As Soraya notes in this episode, technology accelerates access, but it can’t replace human connection — a belief that has shaped how she invests, leads, and builds organizations.  That philosophy sits at the heart of her work as president and CEO of Manulife CQS Investment Management, and it frames one of the hardest problems in asset management: succession. Hedge funds, in particular, tend to live and die by star portfolio managers. Soraya explains why she never believed you could truly “succession-plan” a single person — and instead thought about how teams could be designed to outlast any one individual. She traces that thinking back to the earliest chapters of her career, where mentors emphasized education over selling, long-term relationships over transactions, and a deep respect for risk. We talk about her path through the hedge fund world, what she learned from some of the legends in the industry, and why there are still too few women in the ranks and leadership. “A village needs to come together” to changes things, she says.  From there, the conversation turns more technical. Soraya breaks down how CQS institutionalized itself over time and built scale across multi-asset credit, structured credit, and regulatory capital strategies. She explains why European credit has quietly delivered stronger risk-adjusted returns, and how complexity — when properly understood — can create durable return premiums. As the industry continues to consolidate, Soraya talks about what she looked for in a partner in the 18 months leading up to CQS’s acquisition by Manulife. With the industry littered with failed asset management acquisitions, Soraya addresses the importance of culture, and how to identify a good one. The result, Soraya argues, is a rare balance: remaining a boutique credit specialist while gaining the stability, distribution, and patient capital of a global insurer. This is a wide-ranging conversation about how judgment actually shows up — in people, in markets, and in building institutions.

    44 min

  8. 07/17/2025

    BlackRock’s Rick Rieder Asks ‘What Is Money’

    In Episode 11, which was recorded live at the Morningstar Investment Conference in Chicago, Julie Segal talked to BlackRock’s Rick Rieder, who created THE buzz at the conference after his morning presentation, which he boldly called ‘What Is Money’ (and which included a prediction that AI would create a 15-hour work week.) Julie got Rick, the CIO of $3 trillion in global fixed income, to finish — at least for now — the conversation he started. The discussion ranged from the existential questions about money, market structure, and the changing nature of global investing to reimagining the 60/40 portfolio. The episode is a masterclass in long-term, contrarian thinking. Oh, and Rick gets to revisit his 2016 interview with Julie where he warned that Investors need to “stay away from the soup of the day.” Take a listen and email me with your thoughts and ideas at jsegal@institutionalinvestor.com. The roadmap:  What is money today and tomorrow? Social media and (real) media's role in amplifying noise and shortening time horizons. Explosive growth of financial assets over the last decade. Are we still clear on what money is and what it does? (1:40) Too Much Wealth, Too Few Assets - There are $218 trillion in net worth in the U.S. today and $530 trillion globally today. How can this money be invested? Using the credit markets to create more assets. (4:36) Inflation and Tariffs - The short to medium term of tariffs and deglobalization. And the impact of tariffs and the world of automation. By 2050, we will be going down to a 25-hour week. (7:50)  What does that mean for the markets and why we are not going into a recession? (9:50)For the first time in 20 years, we can get yield in fixed income and private credit has firmly taken its place in the fixed Income sector. Creating the balanced and stable portfolio.  What are my institutional clients asking me? (18:45)Internationally, they are asking about the dollar for the first time in a long time. In the U.S., investors are looking at diversified portfolio in a very different way today. An alternative to 60:40 (21:00)

    26 min
See All (19)

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
5 Ratings

About

In Conversation with Julie Segal is a dialogue with the people who have shaped and continue to influence the world of institutional investors. The podcast will feature both familiar names talking about new ideas and upstarts who want to do things differently.

Information

You Might Also Like