Computer Says Maybe

Alix Dunn

Technology is changing fast. And it's changing our world even faster. Host Alix Dunn interviews visionaries, researchers, and technologists working in the public interest to help you keep up. Step outside the hype and explore the possibilities, problems, and politics of technology. We publish weekly.

  1. Computer Says Kill: The AI Safety Circus w/ Heidy Khlaaf

    4d ago

    Computer Says Kill: The AI Safety Circus w/ Heidy Khlaaf

    The AI industry loves to talk about safety, but their version of safety is putting us at risk. More like this: The Palestine Laboratory w/ Antony Loewenstein For our second to last series episode of Computer Says Kill, we’re joined by Heidy Khlaaf, a global expert in designing safe critical systems for high-risk infrastructures such as energy grids, nuclear power plants, and weaponry. Heidy outlines how the AI industry is working to redefine and shrink this essential, established field of expertise. By parading around sham “safety benchmarks”, this circus of an industry is marketing statistics that literally amount nothing at best, and proof that today’s LLMs aren’t safe at all, at worst. We explore the centuries of precedent and practice established in the safety field and examine how today’s AI safety “experts” are eroding this work to rush the incorporation of shoddy tech into the lucrative nooks and crannies of our militaries, economies, and physical infrastructure. Further reading & resources: Safety Co-Option and Compromised National Security: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Weakened AI Risk Thresholds — Heidy Khlaaf & Sarah Myers West, 2025Social Benefit versus Technological Risk: What is our society willing to pay for safety? — Chauncey Starr, 1969Israel built an ‘AI factory’ for war. It unleashed it in Gaza. — WaPo December 2024Join The Maybe Collective to explore the politics of technology through fresh ideas that you won't hear anywhere else. Sign up for monthly insights, access to exclusive digital events, and real ways to get more involved on issues you care about. Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

    48 min
  2. Computer Says Kill: The Palestine Laboratory w/ Antony Loewenstein

    Jun 5

    Computer Says Kill: The Palestine Laboratory w/ Antony Loewenstein

    Israel has a long history of making new technological weapons of war and exporting them to the world. They have used Palestine as a testing ground to show how new tools can enable mass killing. And they are banking that demand for their products might protect them on the world stage. More like this: Anthropic is NOT the Good Guy w/ Maddy Batt In part seven of Computer Says Kill, author of The Palestine Laboratory Antony Loewenstein explains that for Israel, precision warfare is just performative. Israel has the means to kill with precision, but this is at odds with the logics of genocide. Antony will take us through the history of Israel’s dealings with authoritarian states, and Israel and American states do not need to take state control of a their domestic tech industries because they are already so ideologically aligned with their regimes. Further reading & resources: Buy The Palestine Laboratory by Antony Loewenstein (Verso Books)Watch The Palestine Laboratory series on Al Jazeera‘Hondurasgate,’ the alleged US and Israeli interference plot to destabilize Mexico and other progressive governments — El Pais May 2026Israeli drone strikes on vehicles in Lebanon kill 12 people, including 2 children — LA Times May 2026What is Project Nimbus? Al Jazeera, 2024Israeli authorities are using facial recognition technology to entrench apartheid — on ‘Red Wolf’ from Amnesty International, 2023Check out our Youtube for Tech Story of the Week**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

    49 min
  3. SPECIAL: Israel’s AI Kill List in Lebanon w/ Nabih Bulous

    May 29

    SPECIAL: Israel’s AI Kill List in Lebanon w/ Nabih Bulous

    The Israeli military is using data, surveillance, and AI to kill noncombatants in Southern Lebanon. More like this: Computer Says Kill: Collapsing the Chain w/ with Matt Mahmoudi This week, we're kind of taking a break from our Computer Says Kill series to play a interview from our YouTube channel that is extremely relevant to the conversations we've been having about AI and militarization. Alix sat down with Nabih Bulos, the Middle East Bureau Chief at the LA Times, to discuss his recent reporting on Israel’s complex system of surveillance-driven targeting where, as he writes, even data from a phone can become a death sentence. Further reading & resources: Inside Israel’s AI targeting system: How data from a phone become a death sentence — Nabih Bulos, The Los Angeles Times, May 2026Watch the interview on our YouTube channelCatch up on episodes of Computer Says Kill, our series on AI, warfare, and power **Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

    20 min
  4. Computer Says Kill: Anthropic is NOT the Good Guy w/ Madeline Batt

    May 22

    Computer Says Kill: Anthropic is NOT the Good Guy w/ Madeline Batt

    Anthropic’s AI systems have been used in illegal American invasions in Iran and Venezuela. They have partnered with Musk in the disastrous Memphis Colossus facility. And yet! News coverage, some civil society, and a lot of normies act like Anthropic is one of the good guys. They aren’t! More like this: The Toxic Love Triangle of Big Tech, Big War & Big Science w/ David Gray Widder For part six of Computer Says Kill, we are joined by legal fellow Maddy Batt, who filed an amicus brief in the courtroom battle between Anthropic and the US Department of War. We talk about what we know from the lawsuit, what we know about how AI is being used in illegal invasions, and what might be possible for corporate accountability. Further reading & resources: The amicus brief filed by Tech Justice LawBuy Project Maven by Katrina MansonAutonomised Harming — Linda Eggert, July 2023Autonomous Weapons Systems and Human Rights — Linda Eggert, July 2024Moral Crumple Zones: Cautionary Tales in Human-Robot Interaction — Madeleine Clare Elish, 2019**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

    41 min
  5. Computer Says Kill: The Toxic Love Triangle of Big Tech, Big War & Big Science w/ David Gray Widder

    May 15

    Computer Says Kill: The Toxic Love Triangle of Big Tech, Big War & Big Science w/ David Gray Widder

    Academia, Big Tech, and the military are caught in a sordid love triangle — and their love language is money. More like this: Computer Says Kill: The Blank Check to Beat China w/ Lis Siegel For part five of Computer Says Kill, researcher David Widder describes the powerful trifecta that is academia, Big Tech, and the US military: all of them need each other to survive, but who is benefiting the most? Half of Carnegie Mellon’s research funding comes from the DoW or the DHS — and David will explain how it’s being used to both prop up war apparatus, and serve as an on-ramp to Big Tech platforms. Further reading & resources: It’s about power: What ethical concerns do software engineers have, and what do they (feel they can) do about them? — David Widder et al, June 2023Basic Research, Lethal Effects: Military AI Research Funding as Enlistment — David Widder et alOpen (For Business): Big Tech, Concentrated Power, and the Political Economy of Open AI — David Widder, Sarah West, Meredith Whittaker, August 2023 To Build Our Future, We Must Know Our Past: Contextualizing Paradigm Shifts in Natural Language Processing — Sireesh Gururaja, Amanda Bertsch, Clara Na, David Widder, Emma Strubell, December 2023What Tech Calls Thinking by Adrian DaubThe Undone Computer Science ConferenceComputer-vision research powers surveillance technology — Nature Magazine, June 2025What’s happening in Memphis with Anthropic? — The Maybe Media**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

    37 min
  6. Computer Says Kill: The Blank Check to Beat China w/ Lis Siegel

    May 8

    Computer Says Kill: The Blank Check to Beat China w/ Lis Siegel

    The US is in a race to ‘beat China’ at AI. Or is it? What if I told you that powerful actors in the US have built the story of an all-or-nothing race to get what they want? More like this: Computer Says Kill: A License for Unlimited War w/ Amos Toh In part four of Computer Says Kill we are joined by Lis Siegel who shares the history. We start with a document produced by China in 2017, and arrive at today when the Chinese bogeyman is being used to drive money, political influence and supply chain control to a few US tech giants. Listen in for some insight into how we got here. Further reading & resources: Examining AI Safety as a Global Public Good: Implications, Challenges, and Research Priorities — Lis Siegel et al, March 2025Silicon Valley enabled brutal mass detention and surveillance in China, internal documents show — AP News, September 2025A Dark-Money Campaign Is Paying Influencers to Frame Chinese AI as a Threat — Taylor Lorenz, Wired, May 2026Slogan Politics by Jinghan ZengBreakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future by Dan WangFinal Report from the National Security Commission for AI — 2021Yellow Techno-Peril: The ‘Clash of Civilizations’ and anti-Chinese racial rhetoric in the US–China AI arms race — Kerry McInerney 2024Bernie Sanders urges international cooperation to halt AI’s ‘runaway train’ — The Guardian, April 2026**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

    44 min
  7. Short: RightsGone? Why Zambia May Have Pulled the Plug on RightsCon

    May 1

    Short: RightsGone? Why Zambia May Have Pulled the Plug on RightsCon

    RightsCon has just been cancelled by the Zambian government with no word to the organizers, five days before it was set to begin. RightsCon is the biggest annual global gathering of the digital rights community. Every year thousands of people come together to figure out how to make the internet safer and freer for everyone. When they can't connect, we all lose. Alix shares a few theories about why Zambia pulled the plug (geopolitics, trade deals, and "values"). She also talks through her views on what it could mean that safe global spaces for this work are collapsing, and why you should care even if you've never heard of RightsCon. If you were planning on attending RightsCon we're so sorry. If you're in Zambian civil society fighting for space to engage on these issues, please know there is a global community that has your back. Further reading & resources: World’s Largest Digital Human Rights Conference Suddenly Canceled — 404 Media, April 29**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

    14 min
  8. Computer Says Kill: A License for Unlimited War w/ Amos Toh

    May 1

    Computer Says Kill: A License for Unlimited War w/ Amos Toh

    Military spending on AI is a triple black box: How is AI being used in the military? Who is winning these contracts and what are they worth? And what is the military’s end-game here? More like this: How a Calculator Company Reshaped Modern Warfare w/ Jeff Stern Amos Toh will help us answer these questions in part three of Computer Says Kill. We will cover how military spending has changed over the last couple of decades: there has been a clear shift from the straightforward buying up of jets, to the over-reliance on licensed software. Amos also shares what hasn’t changed, which is: yes, the government still spend a hell of a lot of money on military tech. Further reading & resources: The Business of Military AI — Amos Toh, Emile Ayoub, March 2026Read Amos and Emile’s explainer on the military’s use of AIPentagon's use of Claude during Maduro raid sparks Anthropic feud — Axios, Feb 13Department of War's Artificial Intelligence-First Agenda: A New Era for Defense Contractors — Holland & Knight, Feb 2026The Double Black Box by Ashely DeeksAI at war: Five things to know about Project Maven — Euractiv, April 2026Safety Co-Option and Compromised National Security: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Weakened AI Risk Thresholds — Heidy Khlaaf, Sarah Myers West, April 2025**Subscribe to our newsletter to get more stuff than just a podcast — we run events and do other work that you will definitely be interested in!** Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout

    48 min
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5
out of 5
17 Ratings

About

Technology is changing fast. And it's changing our world even faster. Host Alix Dunn interviews visionaries, researchers, and technologists working in the public interest to help you keep up. Step outside the hype and explore the possibilities, problems, and politics of technology. We publish weekly.

Information

  • Creator
    Alix Dunn
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    124
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2024
  • Show Website
    Computer Says Maybe

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