The InCredible Messenger Podcast

Jonathan McMillan

The InCredible Messenger Podcast is where leaders come to think out loud about gun violence, public safety, public health, and Black male achievement. Hosted by Jonathan McMillan, a national strategist who has designed, funded, and led violence prevention systems, the show features candid conversations with mayors, public health leaders, philanthropy, and community executives. Guests come to share their experiences and expertise. Listeners come for practical insight on what actually works—and what fails—when responsibility meets reality.

  1. How The Media Determines Who Gets Prosecuted or Protected; The Trace's Fairriona Magee

    May 26

    How The Media Determines Who Gets Prosecuted or Protected; The Trace's Fairriona Magee

    The national conversation around gun violence is trapped in a broken political binary. In this episode, Fairriona Magee, the public health reporter at The Trace, joins me to unpack the operational reality that traditional media channels avoid. We dive into why mass shootings structurally dominate the headlines while community violence and firearm suicides are systematically pushed into the shadows. Fairriona breaks down the four-step public health architecture and exposes how historical sourcing biases created a passive "let them die" approach in underrepresented communities. We also confront the physiological toll of viral social media footage on our youth—revealing how repeated exposure triggers continuous traumatic stress rather than desensitization. To understand why violent crime drops aren't receiving systemic credit, you must understand the architecture of the information ecosystem.

    51 min
  2. Why Threatening Prison Doesn't Stop Shooters | Sasha Cotton

    Apr 13

    Why Threatening Prison Doesn't Stop Shooters | Sasha Cotton

    Most cities think they're implementing Group Violence Intervention. Sasha Cotton has seen enough of those implementations to tell you most of them are wrong. Sasha is the Executive Director at the National Network for Safer Communities at John Jay College — the organization that trained the teams behind Philadelphia's 62% homicide reduction and Pine Bluff, Arkansas going over 500 days without a juvenile homicide. In this conversation she breaks down the actual operating model: the call-in structure, the three-part message system, who speaks in what order and why, and the specific ways cities corrupt the model when they implement it without technical support. She also goes somewhere the field rarely goes — the 25% crossover between domestic violence perpetrators and community violence perpetrators, and why you cannot build a serious violence prevention framework without addressing both. And she's honest about the thing nobody wants to say: policing as an institution was never designed to save our kids, and building a strategy that depends on it doing so is a design flaw. Jonathan McMillan brings his own experience as a former outreach worker and violence interrupter to this conversation. This one covers ground most GVI conversations never reach.

    1h 34m
  3. After The Shooting, Then What?

    Apr 7

    After The Shooting, Then What?

    Are you scared of saying the wrong thing to a loved one after they have suffered a death in the family? That was one of many things Oresa Napper-Williams and I discussed during our latest conversation on The InCredible Messenger. We often lean on clichés like "I know how you feel," but unless you’ve walked that specific path, you don’t. We’ve lost the "ministry of presence"—the simple act of showing up with a meal instead of asking a grieving person to make more decisions. But this isn’t just a talk about grief; it’s a masterclass on the "Second Wound"—the trauma inflicted by the very systems meant to help us. The Blueprint for Systemic Change:Oresa didn’t just survive the murder of her son, Andrel; she founded Not Another Child to redesign how systems move. We break down: The Myth of "Contributory Conduct": How denying victim compensation based on a child’s "lifestyle" dehumanizes families and halts community healing. Beyond the "Hand-Off": Why agencies must move past immediate crisis management toward long-term, integrated trauma care. The Receipts: How Oresa worked with Common Justice to strip harmful language from legislation and scale a local tournament into a national model serving 50+ survivors. Key Moments & Conversation Timeline [00:00:00] The Ministry of Presence: Oresa reflects on traditional ways of supporting grieving families and why "saying nothing" is often better than saying the wrong thing. [00:01:10] Competitive Grief: A look at why we shouldn't try to make our grief "greater" than others to seem relatable. [00:05:36] The Birth of "Not Another Child": Oresa shares the story of her son Andrel and how a local basketball tournament evolved into a national nonprofit. [00:10:42] Making Their Names Great: How the program uses photos of lost loved ones to turn the urge for retaliation into a legacy of remembrance. [00:18:25] The Survivor Ecosystem: Moving beyond "silos" and understanding that a nonprofit is a business fueled by passion, but governed by strategy. [00:20:24] Victim vs. Survivor: Oresa discusses the terminology of "victim services" and why she identifies as a survivor who stands toe-to-toe with professionals. [00:34:00] Giving Grace for the Lash Out: Recognizing the trauma of murder and why we must give survivors space to act in ways we might not expect. [00:39:12] Challenging "Contributory Conduct": The fight to change laws that deny families financial support based on the perceived actions of the deceased. [00:43:48] The Second Wound: Oresa recounts the traumatic experiences with hospital staff and detectives immediately following her son's death. [00:54:38] Self-Care & Vitamin Drips: How Oresa maintains her energy through mindfulness, family time, and unconventional wellness. [01:03:00] Advice for New Leaders: Why you should incorporate this work into your life, rather than letting the work overtake your life. Resources: Websites: NotAnotherChild.org, CVINSN.org Social Media: @OfficialNAC | @OresaNapperWilliams Connect with Oresa Napper-Williams

    1h 11m
  4. The GVI Blueprint: How Direct Messaging Stops the Cycle of Gun Violence

    Mar 30 ·  Bonus

    The GVI Blueprint: How Direct Messaging Stops the Cycle of Gun Violence

    "Today’s victim is tomorrow’s perpetrator." In this raw breakdown of the Group Violence Intervention (GVI) model, Sasha reveals the three direct messages that can pull someone back from the brink of a shooting or a prison sentence. What’s Inside: The Law Enforcement Ultimatum: How direct communication from police serves as a final warning before "natural consequences" kick in. The 24-Hour Lifeline: Why "safety planning" and relocation are more effective than simple social services. The Moral Voice: Why the "pastors, preachers, and teachers" are the only ones who can tell a young person the truth about the pain they’re causing. Policing in the Post-George Floyd Era: Sasha discusses the "jarring" reality of working with law enforcement in Minneapolis and the desperate need for procedural justice. 3. Chapter Markers: 00:00 – The First Warning: Direct Police Messaging 01:05 – Relocation vs. Behavior Replacement 01:40 – The 24-Hour Emergency Safety Line 02:15 – The Moral Voice: Pastors, Coaches, and Grandma’s Church 03:20 – "I'm Not Calling Neighborhood Watch": The Reality of Authority 03:45 – Lessons from Minneapolis and the George Floyd Era 04:05 – Procedural Justice: Making Law Enforcement Equitable

    5 min

  5. Feb 1

    The $11 Million Shift: How Newark Replaced Police with Social Workers

    Newark's Violence Prevention strategy has driven homicides to their lowest levels in 60 years, and Deputy Mayor Lakeesha Eure is the architect behind the 70% drop. In this episode, we break down the radical "$11 Million Shift" where Newark reallocated 5% of its police budget to trauma recovery, credible messengers, and a unique "Sunday Brunch" mediation strategy with gang leadership. Whether you are a city leader or a community advocate, this is the definitive blueprint for holding power without losing the trust of the streets. Key Moments [09:01] The $11M Decision: Reallocating 5% of the police budget. [17:39] Sunday Brunch with Bloods and Crips: Mediating active "beefs" . [28:46] The Academy Shift: Why social workers graduate alongside police officers . [38:08] The 7 Lanes of Work: Organizing trauma recovery and high-risk intervention. [51:22] "Show and Prove": Using data to outmaneuver bureaucratic skepticism. TAKE ACTION: THE NEWARK BLUEPRINT 1. Replicate the Model: Don't reinvent the wheel. Access the exact frameworks used by the Office of Violence Prevention and Trauma Recovery (OVPTR) and the Brick City Peace Collective to see how Newark coordinates its "7 Lanes of Work." Explore the Newark Peace Collective Hub Access Trauma Recovery Resources 2. Support the Frontline: The Newark Community Street Team (NCST) and the Newark Anti-Violence Coalition (NAVC) are the "Credible Messengers" you heard about in this episode. Support the boots on the ground: Partner with Newark Community Street Team Join the Newark Anti-Violence Coalition Movement 3. Join the National Movement:Newark isn't an island. Connect with the national infrastructure that Lakeesha Eure credits for scaling this work: The HAVI: Hospital-Based Intervention Cities United: Supporting Mayors & Leaders CVI Leadership Academy: Professionalizing the Field

    1h 4m
  6. Beyond Policing: The CVI Strategy Lowering Crime in Philadelphia

    Jan 25

    Beyond Policing: The CVI Strategy Lowering Crime in Philadelphia

    The Incredible Messenger Podcast | Guest: Jaime "Jalil" MeekinsFrom Pain to Policy: A Blueprint for Community-Driven Public Safety This episode provides a masterclass in transforming Community Violence Intervention (CVI) into a city-wide ecosystem. Host Jonathan McMillan and Jaime "Jalil" Meekins leverage lived experience to drive policy and co-produce safety with law enforcement, contributing to Philadelphia’s trend toward a 40-year low in homicides. The Credible Messenger Asset: Credibility is the currency needed to bridge trust gaps. McMillan, marking 25 years post-prison, and Meekins, a former fugitive turned Council appointee, prove that returning citizens are essential for policy leadership. Multi-Sector Ecosystems: Sustainable safety requires an integrated model. Philadelphia’s "PIE" (Prevention, Intervention, Enforcement) framework positions enforcement as the final tool, prioritizing community-led prevention. Collaborative Law Enforcement: Moving from adversarial to collaborative postures is vital. Initiatives like a 3-on-3 basketball tournament between officers and "guys off the corner" foster mutual respect and cultural competency. Economic Revitalization as Prevention: Addressing blight is a direct investment in safety. Examples include the Germantown Mosque "buying back the block" to repurpose high-violence properties and Nicetown CDC’s $100M investment in parks and sports complexes. The Necessity of Healing: Staff must engage in their own healing to be effective. Meekins emphasizes that "the work is triggering" and requires trauma-informed support systems to ensure long-term program sustainability. A gunshot survivor and father who lost his 14-year-old son to violence, Meekins blends personal loss with strategic leadership: P3 (Push and Progress, Philly): Workforce development for high-risk young men. FAST (Families Achieving Success Together): Co-founder and Public Safety Lead. Policy Roles: Appointed to the Philadelphia City Council Special Committee on Gun Violence. Training: Graduate of the University of Chicago’s CVI Leadership Academy. Public Safety Fireside Chat (Feb 15): A "chat and chew" connecting policy with practice. Featured panelists include Greg Jackson (former White House Deputy Director), state and city officials, and academic researchers. Community Violence Intervention (CVI), Credible Messengers, Public Health Approach, Urban Revitalization, Trauma-Informed Leadership, and Cross-Sector Partnerships.

    59 min
  7. How Community Violence Intervention (CVI) and Data Save Lives: Dr. Shani Buggs

    Jan 18

    How Community Violence Intervention (CVI) and Data Save Lives: Dr. Shani Buggs

    Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode: The Black and Brown Collective for Community Solutions to Gun Violence: thebbcollective.org The HAVI (Health Alliance for Violence Intervention): thehavi.org REDI Chicago: crimelab.uchicago.edu/projects/readi Cure Violence Global: cvg.org Safe Streets Baltimore: monse.baltimorecity.gov/safe-streets Connect with Dr. Shani Buggs: LinkedIn Profile | Email: sabugs@health.ucdavis.edu Timestamps [00:22] Season 3 Kickoff: Professional transitions and returning to the mission. [01:03] Introduction to Dr. Shani Buggs: Why she refused to "pick a lane" in her career. [02:12] The Aurora Shooting: A life-changing moment that led Shani to Baltimore. [04:40] Dealing with Imposter Syndrome: Navigating credentialed spaces as a practitioner. [07:32] The Career Shift: Leaving corporate Atlanta for public health and violence prevention. [10:14] Baltimore vs. Aurora: Witnessing the contrast in how the world views different tragedies. [13:50] Elevating the Narrative: Moving beyond gun control rhetoric to find real solutions. [16:55] Holding the Story: The responsibility of translating community pain into policy. [19:15] Partnership and Resilience: Drawing strength from her partner, D’Angelo Mack. [25:11] The Rise of CVI: How Community Violence Intervention became a codified field. [27:53] The $5 Billion Meeting: Inside the advocacy that secured historic federal funding. [37:21] The First 30 Days: Why the best leadership begins with "getting proximate" and listening. [41:50] An All-Hands Approach: Breaking government silos to coordinate public safety. [45:10] Investing in Hope: The link between financial pressure, the lottery, and recklessness. [47:37] The Endangered Species Narrative: How hopelessness robs young Black men of their future. [51:30] Leadership is Like Milk: Preparing the next generation through the Black and Brown Collective. [56:22] A Message to the Field: Why every story—and every life—has equal value.

    1h 1m
  8. How Violence Prevention Leaders Avoid Burnout and Stay Authentic| With Shawn Dove

    Jan 12

    How Violence Prevention Leaders Avoid Burnout and Stay Authentic| With Shawn Dove

    If you’re leading violence prevention work, community intervention, or serving Black men and boys — this conversation with Shawn Dove is a leadership masterclass built from lived experience. Shawn Dove isn’t just a thought leader. He’s someone who has walked through recovery, grief, identity, failure, and success with purpose intact. He’s the founder of the Campaign for Black Male Achievement and the author of I Too, Am America: On Loving and Leading Black Men and Boys. In this episode, he breaks open the leadership burdens most don’t talk about: the tension between public success and private struggle, the cost of wearing armor, and the invisible labor of staying whole while leading. What you’ll get out of this episode:What you’ll get out of this episode: Why your inner life matters more than your inbox. Shawn lays out why you must work harder on yourself than your job — not as soft talk, but as a survival strategy for sustaining the work. Three pillars every leader should build: a mentor, a coach, and a therapist (or true therapeutic community) — and how these relationships keep you steady in crisis and success. A leadership spectrum you actually need: the difference between showmanship and substance — from “Django” energy to “Butler” strategy — and why emotional intelligence is your competitive advantage. How funding systems pressure competition. Shawn calls out how philanthropy often creates scarcity and why leaders need to own their value and demand collaboration instead of competing for crumbs. A reframing of achievement for young Black men and boys. This goes beyond credentials and programs — toward love, belonging, economic viability, purpose, and narrative power. This isn’t about inspiration. It’s about practical leadership architecture for the people carrying this work on the frontlines. If you’re a nonprofit executive, government leader, CVI director, or funder serious about systemic change, you’ll walk away with a clearer map for leading without losing yourself. Listen now — and share this with one person whose leadership you want to strengthen.

    1h 2m
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About

The InCredible Messenger Podcast is where leaders come to think out loud about gun violence, public safety, public health, and Black male achievement. Hosted by Jonathan McMillan, a national strategist who has designed, funded, and led violence prevention systems, the show features candid conversations with mayors, public health leaders, philanthropy, and community executives. Guests come to share their experiences and expertise. Listeners come for practical insight on what actually works—and what fails—when responsibility meets reality.

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