Hi all! I have a special episode of Dark and Twisted Alleys for you today. As chance would have it, I received word through a publicist of a feature film made without spending a significant amount of money. That film is Contradiction, which was written and directed by Pierce Kafka, as I mentioned here (where you can see us on YouTube), and as it turns out, it’s not only a no-budget film, but it’s … well, hard to define. But it does give off a definite neo-noir vibe! And so, I’m pleased to have had the opportunity to talk with the fellow that pulled off this amazing feat. I think it’s called digging in and doing what needs done, no matter what. And on that note, here’s the interview: Pierce (00:11): Thank you for having me. Debbi (00:12): Oh, it’s my pleasure. Believe me, it is my pleasure to do this. It’s so nice to talk to a filmmaker and a first time filmmaker, I take it. Pierce (00:24): Yes. Debbi (00:25): So, I myself am also a first time filmmaker. Pierce (00:28): Oh. Debbi (00:29): It’s weird. The story is weird. I won’t belabor you with the story, but– Pierce (00:35): Well, I’d love to hear about what stage you’re at and how you’re feeling. Debbi (00:39): Feeling good actually, all things considered. I’m now making a second movie. I’m getting the crew together for that. We need to have a production meeting. I’ve already done one reading with the cast. I just enjoy it so much just connecting with other people and doing this. Do you have that same kind of feeling? Pierce (01:04): Yeah, I do. And it’s extra interesting that you are such a creator and a writer, but you’re also talking to other creators and writers. And how does that relationship or how does that in your creative process work? Debbi (01:20): I find it just really helps me. It helps me to know that there are other people out there dealing with all this stuff. Pierce (01:29): So it’s a little therapeutic. Debbi (01:31): It’s a little therapeutic, but I also want people to know about it. It’s like people should know about this stuff, everything that all we’re going through to bring this to you. You know what I mean? Pierce (01:43): Yeah, I know what you mean. Debbi (01:45): This is a process. Pierce (01:47): I’m definitely always thinking of it from the marketing side and it sounds like you as well with talking to other creators is a way of collaborating and networking so that there’s a greater audience. Debbi (01:59): Yes, absolutely. I’m curious to know, would you consider this, I know you consider it a psychological thriller, a Kafka-esque thriller at that. And I got to say, you’re right about that. Boy, this movie was really something I really– Pierce (02:15): Thank you. Debbi (02:15): It wasn’t always easy to watch, but I really enjoyed it. Pierce (02:18): Oh, wow. That’s very kind. Debbi (02:20): I genuinely, especially after listening to your TED Talk, I was just like, wow, three steps. Some of them not as easy as others, I think. Pierce (02:30): Yeah. A lot of years and tinkering and thinking about making something that doesn’t just work on the surface level of drama or enjoyment, but you can ride that. But if you’re willing to dive in a little bit, there’s supporting material and thought that give you an opportunity to create arguments for some kind of thinking or some kind of decision-making that you’re going through. And on that level, I think it offers something a litle bit more profound or personal to the viewer. And that was a tough thing to straddle for the last 10 years on making sure that we can accomplish that goal. But I do feel like we’ve done it. We showed it at the Indie Vegas Film Festival a week and a half ago and the reception and the comments and the crowds telling me different areas of their life that resonated with them with the film. (03:35): And so I’d consider that a success with the goal from the beginning of making the movie to be able to do that. And it’s something that I’ve always loved in independent film and films, especially when writing the movie. I was taking film studies classes, German cinema, Russian cinema, Italian cinema, film noir, science fiction film, and having to write these papers. And what do these movies have in common? Why are we studying them? What makes them noteworthy? Why do people feel like they have to keep rewatching them? Some of these key themes were important when going to make this film. The extra hard part about that would be having the $0 budget and just being kids with cameras and trying to do something so profound like this. And there’s a level of naivety when you’re young and feel invincible and ambitious. I don’t think I’d be able to do that today, but I knew that then that we’d have the time and resources to be able to do it probably only then. (04:48): And so that’s why we were in such a rush to get it done and I knew that it would take over a decade to edit the film, but to make it, we had that one summer in college. Debbi (05:00): What year was this? Pierce (05:02): 2012. So I was a sophomore going into my junior year of college. Debbi (05:08): My goodness. And what was it that caused you to ultimately … I saw somewhere, maybe it was the TED Talk where you talked about having the idea at the age of 14, I think. Pierce (05:21): Yeah, so in high school- Debbi (05:23): So that’s a long time coming. Pierce (05:24): Yeah. So been making videos for fun with my friends, never took it too seriously since middle school. In high school, we created a movie making class or a club that turned into a class and we said, let’s make a feature film. So I think the original percolating of the idea and the themes and location scouting and what resources do we have available stemmed back from 2007. So maybe 15, 16 years old. And it just continued to evolve until 2012 when we felt that, my writing partner and I felt that we were ready to get the ball rolling on filming. Debbi (06:09): Yeah. And in terms of locations, I noticed some were interior but enough exterior to where you could potentially run into a permitting issue. Pierce (06:22): Right, right. Debbi (06:23): Assume there was a certain amount of run and gun. Pierce (06:26): Yeah. I think in a way that only kids with cameras moving quick could accomplish. And because we were from South Florida knowing these unique special locations, these are locations that you can’t normally film without permits or without proper safety and insurance. Another thing about micro budget films is the utilization of a few locations. And so it’s easier maybe if you do three locations, maybe what if the whole movie was in one location? It’s a quick way of making a film with needing less resources. (06:51): And so that’s another cool thing that the movie does have that is a little bit more unique with micro budget films. Another thing about micro budget films is the utilization of a few locations. And so it’s easier maybe if you do three locations, maybe what if the whole movie was in one location? It’s a quick way of making a film with needing less resources. But I think it was important for us to take that into consideration, but also what if we didn’t need to be limited to that? What if we did the complete opposite and completely opened it up to the world and wherever the characters would take us, even if that was over a hundred locations, over a hundred scenes, which it did turn out to be. So while still keeping that $0 budget, we were able to have a higher production value just by freeing ourselves of the location concern. Debbi (07:48): Wow, that is amazing. I was going to ask you, how do you make a movie like this on zero budget? How do you get the actors and the crew? Pierce (07:57): I think that if I didn’t have– Debbi (07:59): And the underwater camera, Pierce (08:02): Yeah, yeah. Lots of resources. There’s that saying good, fast, cheap, and you get to pick two when you’re making production. And so we definitely said good and cheap, which meant that it was going to take a lot of time. And so I think if you’re working on anything creative over a long period of time, it’s kind of like fishing where you can catch a little fish and then you could reuse it as bait and you can catch a bigger fish and you can use that to reuse as bait and you can catch a bigger fish. And so because we had the luxury of time, especially when planning the production, we’re able to continue to grow different opportunities and relationships. So knowing that we’re going to be making this film, the catalog of people willing to work on it and locations we were able to find and stories and props continue to grow. There’s that saying good, fast, cheap, and you get to pick two when you’re making production. And so we definitely said good and cheap, which meant that it was going to take a lot of time. And so I think if you’re working on anything creative over a long period of time, it’s kind of like fishing where you can catch a little fish and then you could reuse it as bait and you can catch a bigger fish and you can use that to reuse as bait and you can catch a bigger fish. (08:53): I’ve always been resourceful and making videos with my friends and viral videos you kind of learn how to be. And at the same time, we had the digital revolution happening, so you didn’t need tapes or film to make a movie. So that saved a lot on cost. The cameras were also good with low light. You have battery powered LED lights, a means of distribution, things that you can learn online. And for actors, writing around people that I know. The main character in the movie is my sister, the bad guy in the movie’s my stepfather, the main character is my best friend. So these are people that I know that I could write around and write dialogue in a way that I know that if they deliver it, there’s going to be truth behind
