It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

The Overlap
  • 5.0 (148)
  • Soccer
  • Updated Daily

Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left. Join us at Football University! If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. 23h ago

    Arsène Wenger Part 4: Arsenal's 1998 Double, French Football’s Rise, and Changing English Football

    Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper conclude their series on Arsène Wenger’s arrival in English football by focusing on his first full season at Arsenal (1997-98), when early doubts, draws, and a UEFA Cup exit gave way to a transformative run to the league and FA Cup double. They discuss how Wenger blended George Graham’s defensive core with signings like Petit and Overmars, and how his pioneering approach to nutrition, recovery, psychology, and scouting created a decisive late-season fitness edge—highlighted by the 1-0 win at Old Trafford that ignited a near-flawless finish. The episode relives the title-clinching 4-0 over Everton capped by Tony Adams’ iconic goal, reflects on Gary Neville’s view of the ’98 side as Arsenal’s toughest, and argues Wenger’s broader legacy in accelerating sports science, data, recruitment, and acceptance of foreign managers in the Premier League. 00:00 Wenger’s Defining Year 00:25 Setting the 97-98 Focus 02:14 New Signings Take Shape 03:28 Sizing Up the Rivals 05:48 Pints and Culture Clash 07:04 Sports Science Revolution 08:34 Psychology and Red to Blue 12:17 Scouting and Club Foundations 15:55 France Ascendant and Clairefontaine 19:28 Family Life and Early Stumbles 24:42 Neville on the 98 Arsenal 26:48 Bergkamp Magic and the Unbeaten Run 28:11 Relentless Run In 30:08 Old Trafford Turning Point 34:36 Title Clincher Everton 35:29 Adams and Bould Magic 38:40 Wenger Emotion Legacy 40:55 Cup Final Newcastle 45:05 World Cup Echoes 46:12 Changing English Football 51:27 Foreign Manager Boom 55:08 Wrap Up and Thanks Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Arsène Wenger Part 4: Arsenal's 1998 Double, French Football’s Rise, and Changing English Football

  2. Oct 13

    Arsène Wenger Part 3: Dein’s Dinner Party, Japan, and the ‘Arsène Who?’ Arrival

    Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Arsène Wenger series by tracing how David Dein first bonded with Wenger—via an improvised London dinner party and charades—before maintaining contact through Monaco, Antibes meetings, and mailed Arsenal VHS tapes and faxes. They cover Wenger’s post-Monaco move to Nagoya Grampus Eight, early struggles and a key interpreter change, then a turnaround to major success, which Wenger credits for reshaping his coaching and lifestyle ideas. The episode explains how Arsenal’s board eventually traveled to Japan in 1996 to recruit him amid post-Rioch chaos, public skepticism (“Arsène Who?”), and a club culture marked by drinking and addiction revelations. They discuss early dietary and training changes, Wenger retaining the famed back line, and his first signings—Vieira, Garde, and Anelka—plus the November 1996 rumour storm and Arsenal’s strong finish that set up the 1997-98 squad. 00:00 Charades With Wenger 00:34 Podcast Setup And Mystery Match 02:40 Arsenal As Gentlemen Club 05:09 Dinner Party First Impression 10:29 Arsene For Arsenal Premonition 11:35 Dein Keeps In Touch 15:05 Bayern Offer And Sacking 17:05 Japan Move And Early Struggles 20:23 Interpreter Switch Turning Point 23:27 Nagoya Success And Lessons 25:18 Secret Japan Courtship 26:20 Rioch Sacked Chaos 28:05 Arsene Who Backlash 33:09 Dressing Room Crisis 36:31 Broccoli Diet Revolution 41:42 Vieira Proves Them Wrong 43:32 Rumors Tabloid Mob 48:12 Anelka Arrival Momentum 51:22 Cool Britannia Parallels 55:05 Wrap Up Next Episode Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Arsène Wenger Part 3: Dein’s Dinner Party, Japan, and the ‘Arsène Who?’ Arrival

  3. Oct 6

    Arsène Wenger Part 2: Cannes, Nancy and Monaco; ‘Invisible Training’ and a Title

    Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Arsène Wenger series by tracing his leap from youth coaching at Strasbourg to assistant work under Jean-Marc Guillet at Cannes, where his scouting and relentless workload stood out, before taking his first major job at Nancy with Aldo Platini as director. They discuss Wenger’s early innovations—psychologists, stretching, diet, massage and “invisible training”—and his severity, detail-obsession and frugality, alongside the loneliness and intensity he describes after defeats. Despite Nancy’s limited means and eventual relegation, Wenger earned the Monaco job in 1987, where the glamorous setting contrasted with his ascetic focus. With signings like Glenn Hoddle and Mark Hateley, he introduced advanced recovery and professionalism, won Ligue 1 in 1988, and later built teams featuring Claude Puel, while developing talents such as George Weah, Lilian Thuram and Emmanuel Petit, amid disillusionment about French football’s corruption. 00:00 Hoddle Meets Modern Training 00:47 Wenger Series Returns 01:37 Cannes Assistant Breakthrough 02:50 Motorway Scouting Story 04:08 Workaholic Coaching Routine 05:27 First Team Taste of Power 06:37 Nancy Job and Platini Link 08:03 Invisible Training Revolution 12:21 Youth Development and Frugality 15:09 Severity and Dark Obsession 19:49 Monaco Move and Glamour 23:23 Royals and Monaco Memories 25:46 Why Hoddle and Hateley Fit 26:54 Hateley Meets Wenger 27:46 Hoddle Hijacked From PSG 30:17 Training Revolution In Monaco 33:28 Beer Smoking And Culture Clash 34:46 Tactics And Touchline Temper 38:00 Monaco Glory And Marseille Shadow 43:17 Annie And Private Life 44:48 Weah Thuram Petit Talent Spotting 49:03 Highbury Encounter With Dein 52:31 Next Episode And Wrap Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Arsène Wenger Part 2: Cannes, Nancy and Monaco; ‘Invisible Training’ and a Title

  4. Sep 29

    Arsene Wenger Part 1: Alsace Roots, Obsession & The First Break

    Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper begin a four-part series marking 30 years since Arsène Wenger’s arrival at Arsenal, framing him—alongside David Dein—as a key catalyst for the Premier League’s shift toward foreign managers, multicultural squads, and modern nutrition and sports science. They trace Wenger’s roots in rural, war-scarred Alsace on the French-German border: his parents’ hard-working life, his father’s forced Nazi conscription, the Catholic village culture, and Wenger’s intense, self-aware obsession with football. The episode explores how he learned the game through unsupervised street football and bistro conversations, a serious illness at 14, and his desire to escape village life. Wenger’s breakthrough came at 19 after being spotted in a heavy defeat and joining Mutzig, leading to university studies in Strasbourg, a stint learning English in Cambridge, a squad role in Strasbourg’s 1979 title win, and an early move into coaching—already using a psychiatrist with youth players. 00:00 Wenger Obsession Intro 01:23 Why Wenger Changed England 03:41 Alsace War Shadow 07:30 Village Roots and Work Ethic 10:49 French Football Culture Explained 16:18 Street Football and Brother Guy 18:59 Faith Philosophy and Le Professor 24:32 Illness Growth and Escape 27:19 Bistro Lessons La Croix d'Or 28:53 Wine and Bistro Roots 29:37 Bar Talk and Escape 30:09 Football Dreams in Dittlingen 33:00 Mutzig Breakthrough 34:13 Max Hild Mentor 36:44 Dancing and Philosophy 39:55 University and Class Divide 42:10 Strasbourg Squad Years 43:29 Cambridge English Leap 46:47 Coaching Begins at Strasbourg 47:31 Total Football Influences 50:11 Holistic Coaching Mindset 51:30 Wrap Up and Next Episode Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Arsene Wenger Part 1: Alsace Roots, Obsession & The First Break

  5. Sep 22

    Ghanaian's Football Golden Age: Part Two

    Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson examine Kwame Nkrumah’s state-backed club Real Republicans and why it became widely unpopular despite winning trophies, after being created by taking top players from existing clubs without compensation and reinforcing regional and ethnic tensions, particularly in Ashanti. They track criticism in the Evening News and Ashanti Pioneer, Kotoko’s protests, and the club’s lack of public support even at its peak. The episode argues the project nonetheless helped the Black Stars by building cohesion, highlighted by a 3–3 draw with Real Madrid in 1962 and Ghana’s AFCON triumphs in 1963 and 1965 under C.K. Gyamfi, with key players drawn from Republicans. The discussion then links football to Nkrumah’s growing authoritarianism, economic strain from cocoa price swings, and his 1966 CIA-backed coup, after which Real Republicans were dissolved, while Ghana’s club and national successes continued briefly before declining with reduced state support. 00:00 Why Fans Reject Republicans 01:33 Nkrumah Builds a Model Club 05:09 Player Raids Spark Backlash 09:05 Trophies Without Love 16:32 Politics and Regional Resentment 21:34 Cocoa Prices and Ashanti Nationalism 25:41 Break and Reset 26:07 Golden Era for Black Stars 26:55 Real Madrid Draw and FIFA Fight 29:24 World Cup Qualifiers Reality Check 30:12 FIFA Spots Ghana 32:08 Real Republicans Core 33:18 Baba Yara Tragedy 34:00 1963 AFCON Triumph 36:03 Ethiopia Tangent 41:10 1965 AFCON Away Win 43:38 Ghana Legacy Debate 45:37 Nkrumah Turns Authoritarian 50:27 Coup Ends Era 51:37 Aftermath and Wrap Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Ghanaian's Football Golden Age: Part Two

  6. Sep 15

    Ghanaian's Football Golden Age: Part One

    Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson discuss how Kwame Nkrumah used football to build Ghana’s national identity and promote Pan-African unity after independence (1957) and becoming a republic (1960). They trace Ghana’s colonial background as the Gold Coast, Nkrumah’s education and political radicalization in London and the US, his leadership of the CPP, and the push to independence amid postwar unrest and cocoa blight riots. Nkrumah backed football as a tool for unity, sponsoring the Nkrumah Gold Cup and founding the African Club Championships (Osagyefo Cup), a precursor to today’s African Champions League. The episode then profiles Ghana star C.K. Gyamfi (“Magic Feet”), his rise through local clubs, a 1951 UK tour, and a breakthrough spell at Fortuna Düsseldorf in 1960 before returning to play for Ghana. 00:00 Nkrumah and Football Nationhood 03:04 Ghana Under Empire 04:53 Nkrumah Abroad and Ideas 06:38 London Debates and Mentors 12:33 Return and Rising Unrest 15:15 CPP and Road to Independence 18:43 Republic and Cult of Leader 20:05 Sport as National Unity 23:11 Pan African Tournaments Begin 25:30 Gold Cup Wins and Wider Wave 26:53 Osagyefo Cup Club Vision 27:13 Osagyefo Cup Origins 27:58 First African Club Final 28:17 Unity Through Football 30:01 Ghana Golden Era Focus 31:07 Meet CK Gyamfi 33:14 Early Life And Clubs 35:00 Mysterious Dwarves Tangent 38:41 Kotoko And UK Tour 41:55 Germany With Fortuna 48:06 Called Back To Ghana 49:31 Part One Wrap Up Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Ghanaian's Football Golden Age: Part One

  7. Sep 8

    Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Three

    Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper conclude their three-part series on Kevin Keegan by tracing his managerial career and the idealism behind his “why not?” philosophy. They cover his post-playing retreat in Marbella, a 1991 roadside attack that sparked unfounded rumours, and his surprise return to rescue near-bankrupt Newcastle in 1992 despite having barely watched football. Keegan’s early chaos, promotion to the Premier League, and “entertainers” era are explored, including the Andy Cole sale and his famous address to angry fans. The episode revisits the 1995–96 title collapse, his exit amid Newcastle’s flotation plans, spells at Fulham and England, a steadier period at Manchester City, and a final, acrimonious Newcastle return under Mike Ashley, ending with reflections on his legacy and farewell tour. 00:00 Dreamers Welcome 01:39 Marbella Escape 02:49 Celebrity Golf Circuit 04:52 M25 Attack Rumors 08:10 Lightbulb Moment 09:34 Sir John Hall Calls 14:02 Return of the King 17:03 Unprepared New Boss 20:29 Great Escape Finale 22:13 Promotion Blueprint 24:53 Entertainers Era 26:32 Newcastle Goldfish Bowl 28:41 Keegan in the City 30:22 Keegan Tea Reception 32:14 Andy Cole Fallout 33:24 Calming The Mob 36:31 Title Charge Collapse 39:03 Shearer And Glory 41:43 Flotation Clash Exit 44:52 Fulham And England Call 47:24 Poisoned Chalice England 52:56 City Comeback Era 55:36 Third Newcastle Breakdown 58:54 Final Farewell Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Three

  8. Sep 1

    Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Two

    Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Kevin Keegan series, following his 1977 move from Liverpool to Hamburg for a far higher salary and the difficult start marked by teammate resentment, managerial upheaval, a humiliating Super Cup loss at Anfield, and an eight-week ban after he struck a defender in a friendly at Lübeck. They chart his turnaround under Branko Zebec as Hamburg win the Bundesliga in 1978–79, Keegan becomes a German celebrity, learns the language, and wins the Ballon d’Or twice, before turning down Juventus and returning to England with an underwhelming Southampton spell and a breakdown with Lawrie McMenemy. The episode also covers Keegan’s burdened England captaincy amid missed World Cups, including a beating by Yugoslav police, threats in Belfast, Euro 1980, and injury-hit World Cup 1982, before his high-profile move to Second Division Newcastle, the lift he gives the city, and his retirement after a sobering FA Cup loss to Liverpool. 00:00 Keegan Cashes In 01:06 Hamburg Move Explained 01:39 The Bubble Perm Era 03:40 Frosty Dressing Room 06:36 Lübeck Punch Up 09:46 Backlash and Doubts 10:58 Turning Point Return 12:01 Zebec Sparks Revival 14:03 Pop Star in Germany 17:20 Ballon d'Or Debate 21:12 European Cup Heartbreak 23:14 Shock Southampton Switch 25:07 Saints Reality Check 27:22 Keegan Takes Criticism Personally 28:27 England Captain Burden 30:38 Poland Wembley Heartbreak 31:47 Belgrade Police Beating 34:20 Euro 1980 Chaos 35:38 Thatcher Photo Fallout 36:51 IRA Threats Belfast 40:28 World Cup 1982 Injury 43:50 Newcastle Homecoming Move 46:52 Robson Drops Keegan 49:31 Keegan Lifts Newcastle 55:12 Lawrenson Moment Retirement 55:54 Helicopter Farewell Wrap Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Remembering Kevin Keegan: Part Two
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Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left. Join us at Football University! If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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