It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

The Overlap
  • 5.0 (137)
  • Soccer
  • Updated Daily

Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left. Join us at Football University! If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. 1d ago

    Brazil at the World Cup with Tim Vickery: Pelé, Maracanazo and Ancelotti's New Era

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Tim Vickery to discuss the extraordinary story of Brazil at the World Cup. From the ultra-nationalism and hysteria of 1938, to the trauma of the Maracanazo in 1950, and the glorious Pelé years that forged a nation's identity between 1958 and 1970. Vickery traces every Brazilian World Cup campaign. Drawing on his new book Mundiales, Vickery offers a uniquely South American perspective on how the beautiful game's most celebrated nation has wrestled with myth, race, politics, and tactical evolution across nearly a century of football. With the 2026 World Cup on the horizon and Carlo Ancelotti now at the helm, can Brazil rediscover their identity, or has the ghost of 1970 become an impossible standard? 00:00 Introduction — Tim Vickery Joins from Rio 06:30 The Myth of Samba Football 13:00 1938, Radio, and Tropical Nationalism 19:30 1950, The Maracanazo and a Nation's Trauma 27:00 1954, The Battle of Bern and Revenge Football 31:30 1958, Meticulous Planning, Pelé, and Redemption 37:20 The Post-1970 Identity Crisis 41:00 1982, Failure and a Lost Midfield Art 47:00 The Domestic Decline of Brazilian Coaching 49:30 Qatar 2022, Were Brazil Really That Far Off? 52:00 Carlo Ancelotti and the 2026 World Cup Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    56 min

  2. May 26

    The Greatest Champions League Finals of All Time

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pick their six greatest European Cup and Champions League finals of all time. From the 127,000 who stayed to applaud Real Madrid's 7-3 demolition of Eintracht Frankfurt in 1960, to Ajax passing Juventus into submission in 1973 and Pep Guardiola's Barcelona spearheaded by Xavi flying to the title at Wembley in 2011.  Wilson and Draper trace the tactical revolutions, romantic triumphs, and spectacular collapses that defined European football's greatest competition.  With Arsenal facing PSG in this week's Champions League final, will Mikel Arteta join the elite list of managers who have won Europes’s elite competition or will Luis Enrique go back to back with PSG? 00:00 Introduction — Champions League Final Week 06:30 Real Madrid 7-3 Eintracht Frankfurt (1960) 19:20 Ajax 1-0 Juventus (1973) 34:50 AC Milan 4-0 Barcelona (1994)  42:15 Celtic 2-1 Inter Milan (1967)  53:40 Barcelona 3-1 Manchester United (2011)  58:10 Benfica 5-3 Real Madrid (1962)  01:03:20 Why Not 1999 or 2005? — And Can PSG Become an All-Time Great? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1h 3m
  3. Patreon Bonus Sneak Peek | Inside England: Southgate’s Culture Reset, EPPP and the Tuchel Gamble

    May 22

    Patreon Bonus Sneak Peek | Inside England: Southgate’s Culture Reset, EPPP and the Tuchel Gamble

    Listen to the Full Episode on the IWWIW Patreon here... In this Patreon special of It Was What It Was, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak with Jonathan Northcroft about the updated paperback edition of their Gareth Southgate book, retitled Inside England, which adds four new chapters. They discuss Southgate’s cultural reset, including the Royal Marines camp at Lympstone, and trace the deeper roots of England’s revival through reforms such as EPPP and England DNA, alongside figures like Dan Ashworth, Dave Redding, Trevor Brooking and Greg Dyke’s 2022 World Cup target. They cover how improved youth development, psychology and data-led penalty preparation helped transform England into a resilient tournament team, before assessing Euro 2024’s tactical problems and the FA’s decision to appoint Thomas Tuchel for “wow factor” and elite coaching. They end by weighing concerns about recent friendlies, squad management and camp culture heading into the World Cup. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    16 min

  4. May 19

    Breaking the Old Firm: Fergie's Aberdeen Revolution

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Michael Grant, Scottish football correspondent for The Times and author of Fergie Rises, to tell the story of how a young Alex Ferguson shattered the Old Firm duopoly and transformed Aberdeen into serial winners. This Episode was recorded before the dramatic showdown on the final day of the SPL season between Celtic and Hearts, but was this just the start of the Hearts story? Will they continue threatening to break the Rangers-Celtic stranglehold for years to come? Wilson, Draper and Grant trace the remarkable parallels with Ferguson's Aberdeen revolution. They explore how a brash 36-year-old manager, fresh from a humiliating tribunal after being sacked by St Mirren, walked into a club that had nearly been relegated two years earlier and forged a dynasty. Along the way, they examine the clashes on the pitch, the psychological scars of Fergie's playing days, the infamous post-cup final rant that still hurts his players 40 years on. Michael Grant reveals the man behind the myth... volatile, funny, manipulative, and utterly relentless. 00:00 Introduction — Hearts, the Old Firm, and Why Fergie Matters Now 06:30 Aberdeen Before Ferguson — Nearly Relegated 12:45 The St Mirren Sacking and the Tribunal 19:20 The Westhill Willy Biters 27:10 Willie Miller and the Power Struggle 34:50 Breaking the Old Firm's Psychological Hold 42:15 Winning the League — 5-0 at Easter Road 48:00 Knocking on Fergie's Door at 3am 53:40 The Liverpool Humiliation 58:10 Fergie's Fury — The Morning After Anfield 01:03:20 Youth Development and Building a Dynasty 01:09:00 The Infamous 1983 Cup Final Rant 01:14:30 Why the Old Firm Were Vulnerable — and can Hearts Can Do It Again? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    58 min

  5. May 12

    The FA Cup & The Broken Neck | Bert Trautmann The Nazi POW & Man City Legend

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper tell the remarkable story of Bert Trautmann — the former Nazi paratrooper who became Manchester City's beloved goalkeeper and an unlikely symbol of Anglo-German reconciliation. 70 years on from the legendary 1956 FA Cup final, Wilson and Draper trace Trautmann's extraordinary journey: from Hitler Youth member and fighting on the Eastern Front, to prisoner of war in England, to the man who played on with a broken neck at Wembley. They examine his teenage indoctrination, the atrocity he witnessed, that shattered his faith in Nazism and the 25,000 protesters at Maine Road. Along the way, they explore the brutal treatment of goalkeepers in this era and how three successive cup final incidents began to change the game's laws. Finally, they reflect on how a flawed, charismatic man became the perfect bridge between two nations. 00:00 Jimmy Ashcroft and the Goalkeeper's Lot 06:30 Hitler Youth — Trautmann's Indoctrination 12:45 The Eastern Front 19:20 Witnessing the SS Massacre 25:00 Captured Three Times — Soviets, Americans, and a Cup of Tea 27:10 Prisoner of War and the Accidental Goalkeeper 34:50 Staying in England 42:15 25,000 Protesters 48:00 Winning Over Manchester 53:40 The 1956 FA Cup Final — Playing On with a Broken Neck 58:10 The Dangerous Life of the Goalkeeper 01:03:20 Footballer of the Year and Personal Tragedy 01:09:00 Burma, Women's Football, and an OBE 01:14:30 The Perfect Symbol of Reconciliation Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    53 min

  6. May 5

    "Can't Win Anything With Kids" Manchester United's 1996 Triumph

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit the 1995-96 Premier League season. 30 years on from one of the great title races. They trace Manchester United's unlikely triumph, beginning with the summer meltdown that saw Ince, Hughes, and Kanchelskis all depart, the infamous opening-day defeat to Aston Villa, and Alan Hansen's immortal verdict. From Cantona's Paris crisis and Ferguson's diplomatic dinner to Newcastle's flying start and that seemingly insurmountable 12-point lead, Wilson and Draper unpick every twist. They examine Schmeichel's heroics in the pivotal March showdown at St James' Park, the Tino Asprilla effect, the curse of the grey shirts at The Dell, and finally the extraordinary moment Kevin Keegan lost his composure on live television. 00:00 Alan Hansen Sets the Scene 06:30 The Summer Meltdown — Ince, Hughes, Kanchelskis 12:45 Class of '92 and the Aston Villa Opener 19:20 Cantona's Paris Crisis and Ferguson's Rescue Mission 27:10 Newcastle's Flying Start and the 12-Point Lead 34:50 The March Showdown at St James' Park 42:15 Tino Asprilla and the Rodney Marsh Debate 48:00 Liverpool 4, Newcastle 3 — The Moment It Turned 53:40 The Grey Shirts and the Southampton Collapse 58:10 The Mind Games Begin 01:03:20 Keegan's Meltdown — "I Will Love It" 01:09:00 United Win the League and the Double 01:14:30 Why This Season Made the Premier League Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    56 min

  7. Apr 28

    The Impossible Dream: Leicester City’s Premier League Win

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week’s episode, co-hosts Jonthan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Sports Journalist and author Jonathan Northcroft to take a look 10 years on from that extraordinary and famous Premier League win! They frame the story around key pivot points, including the Valentine’s Day defeat at Arsenal and the self-belief it sparked, plus Ranieri’s unexpected decision to still grant the squad a holiday. Northcroft traces the longer build-up through the 2013 Watford play-off heartbreak, Nigel Pearson’s cross-department reset, the 2014 Championship-winning platform (and the later FFP breach), and the club’s smart recruitment and early data use that delivered players like Kanté, Mahrez and Okazaki. They cover Pearson’s departure after off-field incidents, the scepticism around Ranieri’s appointment, his “dilly ding” media touch, rivals’ crises, standout wins over Liverpool and Manchester City, Spurs’ chase, and the city’s all-in celebrations as the miracle became real. 06:35 Origins of the Build 10:39 FFP and the Promotion Debate 11:35 Recruitment and Data Edge 17:36 Kante and Mahrez Backstories 22:22 Pearson Great Escape and Exit 26:10 Ranieri Arrives Against the Odds 27:46 Dilly Ding and Pizza Psychology 35:24 Chelsea Chaos Unravels 41:42 Big Clubs in Crisis 45:02 Vardy Volley and City Statement 47:37 Leicester Media Frenzy 53:30 Spurs Pressure and Title Night 59:19 Leicester Celebrates as One 01:04:30 Bonkers Finale Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1h 5m

  8. Apr 21

    Do I Not Like That! England's Downfall Under Graham Taylor | Part Three

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was the football history podcast. In today’s episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring this Graham Taylor series to a close with the Oslo qualifier that defined his reign: a chaotic, tactically muddled 2–0 loss to Norway at the peak of their ‘golden age’, captured in painful detail by The Impossible Job. Unpacking Taylor’s mounting stress, tabloid caricature and “no‑win” selection calls—especially the dilemma of persisting with an undercooked Paul Gascoigne—before explaining how the back-three plan collapsed, England’s structure unravelled, and Norway’s alertness (including a quick free kick) punished them. The episode breaks down England’s chaotic structure, Norway’s tactical calm under Egil “Drillo” Olsen, and Taylor’s famous touchline outbursts, before tracing the fallout: “Norse Manure” headlines, concerns the players had stopped responding, and a demoralising US tour. England briefly revive by beating Poland, but lose in Rotterdam and, despite winning 7–1 in San Marino after conceding almost instantly, miss out as the Netherlands win in Poland. They assess Taylor’s broader legacy, his misfortune with timing and player form, and his later rehabilitation at Watford. 01:51 Norway’s Golden Generation 04:51 Tabloid Mockery Era 06:11 Psychology and Pressure 08:18 The Gaza Fitness Dilemma 18:30 Paranoia and Tactical Switch 22:50 System Collapse in Oslo 25:57 Quick Free Kick Nightmare 29:41 Norway Strike Again 30:32 Tabloid Backlash 32:07 Tactics And Trust 35:18 Bigger Picture Failings 42:56 USA Tour Fallout 43:49 Last Chance Qualifiers 45:36 San Marino Shock 48:28 Reassessing the Taylor Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    54 min
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Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left. Join us at Football University! If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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