Original Law and Disorder Radio ™

Heidi Boghosian, Michael Smith, Jim Lafferty, Maria Hall, Stephen Rohde

Hosted by 4 attorneys, Law and Disorder is a one hour weekly show providing timely legal perspectives on issues concerning civil liberties, privacy, right to dissent and practices of torture exercised by the US government and private corporations.

  1. 5D AGO

    Law and Disorder December 22, 2025

    Rewiring Democracy: How AI Will Transform Our Politics, Government, and Citizenship Artificial intelligence and democracy are two of the most charged words in the news right now. To hear the headlines tell it, AI is either about to save us—or quietly break everything that makes self-government possible. A new book refuses that false choice. It asks a more uncomfortable—and more political—question: who is using AI, how, and for whose benefit? The book is Rewiring Democracy: How AI Will Transform Our Politics, Government, and Citizenship, published by MIT Press. It starts from a deceptively simple idea: democracy is an information-processing system—one that gathers people’s preferences and turns them into law, policy, and power. From that perspective, AI isn’t inherently democratic or dangerous. It’s a power-amplifying tool. In democratic hands, it can broaden participation, increase transparency, and make government more responsive. But in the hands of monopolistic tech companies or authoritarian states, it can just as easily intensify surveillance, manipulation, and control. Instead of treating AI as a distant sci-fi threat, Rewiring Democracy looks at what’s already happening—AI in lawmaking, courts, elections, public services, and everyday citizenship—and asks the question too often left out of the debate: not what the technology can do, but who controls it—and who is left out. Guest – Nathan E. Sanders, a data scientist affiliated with Harvard’s Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society. His work focuses on using technology to strengthen democratic participation, especially for communities historically excluded from decision-making. He’s the co-author of Rewiring Democracy, along with cybersecurity expert Bruce Schneier. —- The Unitary Presidency: Trump’s Second Term, the Supreme Court, and the Consolidation of Power The American system of democracy was built on a simple, stubborn idea: power must be divided if liberty is going to survive. James Madison warned that concentrating legislative, executive, and judicial authority in the same hands is “the very definition of tyranny,” and George Washington cautioned that power’s abuse is as predictable as gravity. Those weren’t poetic lines—they were the operating instructions for a constitutional democracy. Our own cohost Stephen Rohde argues that those instructions are being ignored in plain sight. In The Unitary Presidency: Trump’s Second Term, the Supreme Court, and the Consolidation of Power, just published in Los Angeles Lawyer magazine, he says we’re not dealing with isolated controversies. We’re watching a sustained push to consolidate authority in the presidency—backed by legal theory, executive machinery, and a political ecosystem willing to treat norms and limits as optional. Steve traces how an extreme version of the Unitary Executive Theory has become the rationale for purges of independent agencies, mass removals of officials, and executive actions that pressure universities, law firms, immigrants, protesters, and the press. In his account, the point isn’t just what’s being done—it’s the precedent being set: that the president can control, punish, and dismantle without meaningful restraint. And the most alarming part, Steve argues, is the Supreme Court’s role—especially through its emergency “shadow docket,” where consequential decisions can be issued at lightening speed, often without full briefing or transparent reasoning. He asks readers: are we witnessing a temporary political lurch, or a lasting constitutional redesign—one that leaves checks and balances as a ceremonial relic? Guest – Stephen Rohde is a retired constitutional attorney, lecturer, writer and political activist. He is the Chair Emeritus of several organizations including Bend the Arc, the ACLU Foundation of Southern California, and Death Penalty Focus. He is also a founder and current Chair of Interfaith Communities United for Justice and Peace. He is the author of American Words of Freedom and Freedom of Assembly.

    58 min
  2. DEC 15

    Law and Disorder December 15, 2025

    Jewish Voice For Peace: West Bank Divided and Conquered Our guest today is Leta Hirschmann-Levy, a young Jewish New Yorker, who just returned from a solidarity delegation to the Israeli militarily occupied West Bank of Palestine. Ms. Hirschmann-Levy is a leading activist in Jewish Voice Peace, a writer and an actress. Her grandparents on her mother’s side were German Jewish refugees from the holocaust. Israel has killed at least 1000 Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem since October 7, 2023. The murders are part of their project to ethnically cleanse the West Bank and East Jerusalem and make them free of Palestinians. Peace seems less and less possible. The West Bank was invaded and taken by Israel during the 1967 war, a war that was initiated by Israel against its neighbors, especially Egypt and Syria. The West Bank has been occupied by the Israeli military ever since. It is the longest occupation in history. Despite Israeli propaganda, there’s no such thing as a liberal occupation. Over 700,000 Israeli settlers have since moved into the occupied territory with the intent of preventing the West Bank from being part of a future Palestinian state, a Palestinian hope which the Israelis have vowed to never allow. The territory is run on an apartheid basis with complete segregation of Jews and Arabs who are isolated by a 20 foot cement wall that snakes through their land. Arabs must use their own roads, are issued distinct license plates, suffer the indignity of military checkpoints, go to their own schools and live in separate communities at the base of hills occupied by Israeli settlers. They are constantly surveilled and harassed by the military which keeps thousands of Palestinians, including children, in prison, many tortured and detained with no charges against them. Hundreds of their homes have been destroyed, their ancient olive trees uprooted, and their water supplies stolen. It is this situation that our guest went to observe. ----   Norman Soloman: The Blue Road to Trump Hell In 2016, a man famous for humiliating people on television with the catch phrase, “You’re fired,” was elected president of the United States. Many were surprised – chief among them, his opponent, Hillary Clinton. But others, like our guest for this segment, saw it coming, and believes the Democratic Party could have done so much more than it did to avoid it. Today, in the midst of Trump presidency #2, the country is as polarized as ever. How did we get here? And where are we headed? Is there a way to avoid the US slipping into a country where only the wealthiest enjoy power, resources, liberty and justice? Our guest for this segment will help us think through those questions. He is Norman Solomon, author of the new book, The Blue Road to Trump Hell, How Corporate Democrats Paved the Way for Autocracy. Norman is the national director of RootsAction and executive director of the Institute for Public Accuracy. He is the author of more than a dozen books including War Made Invisible: How America Hides the Human Toll of Its Military Machine. Solomon has written about politics for many publications including The Hill, The Nation, the Guardian, Common Dreams, the LA Times and Salon.   -----------------------------

    54 min
  3. DEC 8

    Law and Disorder December 8, 2025

    Locals On Edge As Right Wing Christian Company Builds Community A quiet rural county in Tennessee has become an unexpected frontline in a national struggle over identity, democracy, and belonging. Jackson County—a small Appalachian community of rolling hills, family farms, and a slowly revitalizing town center—is now at the center of a political and ideological clash. Longtime residents are facing a wave of out of state White Christian nationalists developers. Their stated goals include rolling back civil rights gains, discouraging women from higher education or voting, and expelling immigrants who are already U.S. citizens. At the heart of this effort are developers RidgeRunner and New Founding; they’re buying up hundreds of acres to create an ideological enclave and consolidating local political power. RidgeRunner’s CEO, Josh Abbotoy, has sold land to two podcasters, Andrew Isker and C. Jay Engel. These “ambassadors” state publicly that they want to attract “hundreds or thousands” of people to Jackson County who share their Christian nationalist vision. Locals fear the county is being used as a pilot site for a broader national strategy: intentional migration to reshape rural America and take over local governments. In a place where county elections are often decided by fewer than 300 votes, the danger isn’t theoretical. A disciplined ideological bloc of just a few hundred people could rewrite policy, alter governance, and silence dissent.What’s happening in Jackson County is an example of a growing pattern across the country: planned ideological enclaves, politically motivated relocation, and increased activity under the banner of Christian nationalism. Guest - Kimberly Silvestri is a homeowner in Gainesboro, she's a former professional pilot with a background in science. She's currently working on her Master's degree. ---- Soldiers Refusing Illegal Orders The extent to which Donald Trump is willing to go to dismantle of the rule of law at home and abroad is breathtaking and dangerous. In some cases, leaders are pushing back but in other cases major institutions are enabling Trump's lawlessness. In a recent 90-second video organized by Sen. Elissa Slotkin (Democrat of Michigan), two senators and four Congress members, all U.S. military or CIA veterans, took turns reading a statement addressed to active service members, urging them to refuse to follow illegal orders. “Like us, you all swore an oath to protect and defend this Constitution,” the lawmakers said. "Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.... No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution." In Truth Social, Trump immediately responded: “It’s called SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. Each one of these traitors to our Country should be ARRESTED AND PUT ON TRIAL.” In subsequent posts, Trump wrote: "LOCK THEM UP???" ... “SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR, punishable by DEATH!” Trump also reposted a statement saying: “HANG THEM GEORGE WASHINGTON WOULD!!” Now the Department of War is investigating one of the Senators, Mark Kelly for “serious allegations of misconduct,” threatening to call him back to active duty and court-martial him. Meanwhile, on November 17, 2025, the UN Security Council enshrined Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian lands, put its imprimatur on Israel’s genocide, and granted colonial control over the lives of the Palestinians to the United States, which has aided and abetted the genocide. The Council adopted Resolution 2803, by a vote of 13-0. Russia and China, both permanent members of the Security Council, could have vetoed it. But they abstained. The resolution incorporates Donald Trump’s “peace plan.” It grants control over Gaza to the U.S.-led “Board of Peace” and it orders the deployment of a U.S.-led occupation force called “International Stabilization Force (ISF).” Trump will oversee both colonial bodies, in collaboration with Israel. Palestinians will not be allowed to participate in their own governance. Guest – Marjorie Cohn  is Professor Emerita at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, Dean of the People’s Academy of International Law, and former president of the National Lawyers Guild. She is a legal and political analyst who does media commentary and writes columns on Truthout and other outlets, and she a former host on Law and Disorder radio. Her most recent book is Drones and Targeted Killing: Legal, Moral, and Geopolitical Issues. Marjorie wrote an article that was published earlier this month on Truthout, titled Lawsuit Charges That California Law Illegally Muzzles Students and Teachers on Palestine.

    55 min
  4. DEC 1

    Law and Disorder December 1, 2025

    From The Flag To The Cross: Fascism American Style From The Flag To The Cross: Fascism American Style is the title of a recently published anthology edited by Zachary Sklar and our own Michael Smith. Co-host Jim Lafferty wrote the introduction. The book draws from seven key interviews with prominent socialist thinkers in the United States and Canada. They include Margaret Kimberly, Henry Giroux, Dianne Feeley and Bill Mullen. Bill will also be joining Michael and Jim in the guest seat. He's Professor Emeritus of American Studies at Purdue University and author of We Charge Genocide! American Fascism and the Rule of Law. Chris Hedges who is also included in this book, writes "when fascism comes to America, it will be mass of recitations of the pledge of allegiance, the Christian cross and the flag." We'll explore these frayed boundaries of Christian fascism, capitalism, and the assaults on free speech and censorship while highlighting the strategies of community based actions. Guest - Michael Steven Smith is the author, editor, and co-editor of many books, mostly recently Imagine: Living In A Socialist U.S.A. and “The Emerging Police State,” by William M. Kunstler. He has testified before committees of the United States Congress and the United Nations on human rights issues. Mr. Smith lives and had practiced law in New York City with his wife Debby, where on behalf of seriously injured persons he sues insurance companies and occasionally the New York City Police Department. Guest - Jim Lafferty is the Executive Director Emeritus of the National Lawyers Guild in Los Angeles and the host of The Lawyers Guild Show on Pacifica Radio’s Los Angeles station, KPFK. Jim has been a national leader in the peace and social justice movement for 60-years. He served as a national Coordinator of the National Peace Action Coalition, the group that organized the largest protests against the U.S. war in Vietnam, and in leadership positions in other peace coalitions opposing various imperialist U.S. wars. In the early 1960’s he was the national Director of the National Lawyers Guild during its historic work in the South. In the mid-1960’s until the 1980’s, Jim was in the private practice of law in Detroit, Michigan, where he specialized in Selective Service law, employment discrimination law, and civil rights law. He serves on the governing board of the A.C.L.U. of Southern California, is a member of the steering committee of the national Julian Assange Defense Committee, and a Fellow at the Institute for the Humanities at the University of Southern California. Guest – Bill Mullen is professor emeritus of American studies at Purdue University and the co-founder of The Campus Anti-fascist Network. He’s also co-author of The Black Antifascist Tradition and We Charge Genocide: American Ashes and the Rule of Law. He’s a contributor to the just published Law And Disorder book From the Flag to the Cross: Fascism American Style.

    53 min
  5. NOV 24

    Law and Disorder November 24, 2025

    Without Precedent: How Chief Justice Roberts and His Accomplices Rewrote The Constitution and Dismantled Our Rights  Early in his second term, after addressing a joint session of Congress, as he shook hands walking down the aisle, President Donald Trump turned to Chief Justice John Roberts, patted him on the back, and said, “Thank you again. Thank you again. I won’t forget.”  What had Roberts done to deserve such gratitude? A lot. In her withering and revealing new book, Without Precedent: How Chief Justice Roberts and His Accomplices Rewrote The Constitution and Dismantled Our Rights, Lisa Graves describes in detail how Roberts “has established himself not as a fair referee but as a diabolically effective player rewriting the Constitution and remaking America in accord with his reactionary political agenda, as he strategizes how to move the ball forward and disarm the opposition.” Sound too hyperbolic? Read the book. Guest - Lisa Graves - before her work as Deputy Assistant Attorney General under Attorneys General Janet Reno, a Democrat, and John Ashcroft, a Republican, she was Chief Counsel for Nominations for Senator Patrick Leahy on the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, where she investigated the careers and ideologies of judicial nominees, including John Roberts. She also learned how to examine the finances of sitting judges as Deputy Chief of the Article III Judges Division of the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts with oversight of the Financial Disclosure Office. She was an adjunct law professor at George Washington University Law School and worked as the Senior Legislative Strategist for the ACLU on national security and civil liberties. From 2009-2017, she led the Center for Media and Democracy. Most recently, she co-founded Court Accountability and is also the Executive Director of True North Research, a national investigative watchdog group that describes its mission as exposing “the dark money fueling regressive agendas targeting vital institutions in our republic, such as our courts and public schools.”

    52 min
  6. NOV 17

    Law and Disorder November 17, 2025

    Socialist Democrat Voted Into NYC Mayoral Seat: What Happens Now? Thirty-three year-old Zohran Mamdani, an immigrant from Uganda, a Muslim, and a member of the Democratic Socialist of American won an overwhelming victory in New York City’s primary in September’s and then won the mayoral race in New York City December 4. His team of some 100,000 door knockers and canvassers swept the charismatic Mamdani into first place over the former governor and main line Democrat Andrew Cuomo. Cuomo was supported financially and politically by 28 different billionaires, Wall Street, and the real estate interests. The top of the Democratic party refused to endorse Zohran even after he won the Democratic primary and recently Trump smeared Zohran as a “lunatic communist“ and has already cut off $18 billion of federal funding for the state of New York. The victory of Mamdani and the magnificent movement behind him came after the No Kings demonstrations attended by millions across the country. It is the most significant development so far in the fight back against the oligarchs, authoritarians and fascists forces in the United States. The Mamdani success has changed the relationship of forces somewhat between the American people and their rulers like nothing we have seen since a huge rebellion against the Vietnam war in 1968. What are its implications for New York City and beyond, the growth and influence of socialist ideas and for the DSA? Guest - Historian Paul LeBlanc, professor emeritus of history at LaRoche University in Pittsburgh and an active member of the Pittsburgh chapter of the DSA. He is the author of many books on socialism and labor history and most recently a contributor to A User’s Guide to the DSA with an article titled A Effective Force for Socialism.-- ---- Lawsuit Charges That California Law Illegally Muzzles Students and Teachers on Palestine Beginning January 1, 2026, teachers in California classrooms will have to look over their shoulders to avoid running afoul of an alarming new “antisemitism” law. On October 7, despite widespread opposition from teachers’ unions, civil rights groups, and education advocates, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed AB 715. It amends the California Education Code to police what teachers can teach and what students can learn about Israel and Palestine. Under this law, teachers could be charged with unlawful discrimination and disciplined “if they expose their students to ideas, information, and instructional materials that may be considered critical of the State of Israel and the philosophy of Zionism,” according to a lawsuit filed on November 2 by the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC). Guest - Marjorie Cohn  is Professor Emerita at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, Dean of the People’s Academy of International Law, and former president of the National Lawyers Guild. She is a legal and political analyst who does media commentary and writes columns on Truthout and other outlets, and she a former host on Law and Disorder radio. Her most recent book is Drones and Targeted Killing: Legal, Moral, and Geopolitical Issues. Marjorie wrote an article that was published earlier this month on Truthout, titled Lawsuit Charges That California Law Illegally Muzzles Students and Teachers on Palestine.

    52 min
  7. NOV 10

    Law and Disorder November 10, 2025

    Raiding the Genome: How the United States Government Is Abusing its Immigration Powers to Amass DNA for Future Policing Around the world, governments are quietly stockpiling one of the most intimate forms of personal data imaginable: our DNA. What began as a tool for identifying suspects and reuniting families has become a global infrastructure for surveillance—an invisible archive of our genetic code, stored and searchable. In 2024, Georgetown Law’s Center on Privacy & Technology sounded the alarm in a report titled Raiding the Genome: How the United States Government Is Abusing its Immigration Powers to Amass DNA for Future Policing. The findings were stark: U.S. immigration authorities are collecting DNA on a massive scale, far beyond what the law permits. In a follow-up report last month, the Center reveals that Customs and Border Protection is taking DNA from American citizens, too—routinely, without consent, and without oversight—then funneling those samples to the FBI. Once there, they’re added to the national criminal database known as CODIS, where law enforcement agencies nationally can access and search them. Guest - Stevie Glaberson. Director of Research & Advocacy for the Center, and an author of the report. She joined the Center after serving as a Visiting Professor and the Director of Georgetown Law’s Civil Litigation Clinic, which she helped found as a clinical teaching fellow and staff attorney. ---- Inventing Antifa On October 18, No Kings Day, in her popular Newsletter, author Sarah Kendzior wrote a disturbing column titled Inventing Antifa. It begins: "In 2005, the Uzbek government invented a group called 'Akromiya' to justify a massacre of protesters. Now I worry the US government will do the same." She recounted how on May 13, 2005, the Uzbek government killed over 700 civilians gathered in the eastern city of Andijon to protest the economic, social, and political conditions of Uzbekistan. Prompted by the imprisonment and subsequent jailbreak of popular local businessmen, the crowd grew to 10,000 people, some drawn by a rumor that their dictator, President Karimov, would address the largest protest in Uzbekistan’s history. Instead, military forces greeted the demonstrators. According to the Uzbek government, the forces targeted only armed insurgents, 187 of whom were killed. But according to nearly all other accounts, the military fired indiscriminately into the crowd, murdering at least 700 people, including children. At the center of the massacre was a group the Uzbek government called “Akromiya." According to the Uzbek government, Akromiya armed the militants, Akromiya gave the orders, Akromiya was responsible for the deaths of Uzbek citizens in Andijon. Akromiya was a menace that had to be stamped out at any cost. There was one problem with this theory: Akromiya — according to Uzbek and international human rights groups, political organizations, journalists, citizens, and accused Akromiya members themselves — did not exist. The Uzbek government had invented “Akromiya,” which became the all-purpose label slapped on any Uzbek who dared to dissent. Kendzior believes that just as the Uzbek government invented the bogeyman "Akromiya" to justify the brutal suppression of dissent, Donald Trump is using the label Antifa to do the same to suppress and criminalize the rising resistance against his fascist regime in the United States. Kendzior knows alot about the myth of "Akromiya" because she's the one who debunked it, so we're very pleased to have her with us today on Law and Disorder. Guest - Sarah Kendzior is the bestselling author of The View From Flyover Country, Hiding In Plain Sight and They Knew. Her latest book The Last American Road Trip was published this year and I had the pleasure of reviewing it - favorably I might add - for Ms Magazine. From 2018 until 2023, she was the co-host of Gaslit Nation, a weekly podcast and she is well-known for her coverage of the Trump administration and for writing about authoritarianism, kleptocracy, transnational organized crime, racism and xenophobia, media, voting rights, technology, the environment, and corruption, among other topics. Sarah holds a PhD in anthropology from Washington University in Saint Louis and an MA in Central Eurasian Studies from Indiana University In August 2013, Foreign Policy journal named her one of “the 100 people you should be following on Twitter to make sense of global events."

    58 min
  8. NOV 3

    Law and Disorder November 3, 2025

    We’re Coming for You and Your Whole Rotten System Tens of thousands of socialists, union members, and working people fought alongside Kshama Sawant and her city council office to win historic victories, like the $15 an hour minimum wage, Amazon tax on businesses, renter rights and more. Long before AOC and Bernie Sanders became household names, Kshama won elections as a socialist to the office of city council in Seattle in 2013. Twelve years ago the demand for $15 an hour was dismissed as utopian by the Democrats in Seattle and the corporate media. They won and moreover, they won an escalation clause. Seattle workers are now getting over $20 an hour, the highest in the country. In 2020, her office won the historic Amazon tax which funds affordable housing and other needs to the tune of $214 million a year by taxing the city’s, wealthiest corporations. Sawant launched the people’s budget campaign, organizing hundreds of activists every year and winning millions of dollars in funding for affordable housing, renters needs, including defense against evictions, and social services. They won a law after the Roe versus Wade decision making abortion free in Seattle for all those who need it. They won a resolution making Seattle the largest city to pass the strongest cease-fire resolution condemning Israel’s genocide against the Palestinian people. Why is KShama and the forces around her been able to defeat big business interests, the right wing, and the Democratic Party establishment again and again whereas Bernie Sanders and the Squad have not? Guest - Jonathan Rosenblum, the author of the recently published book We’re Coming for You and your Whole Rotten System to answer this question. Mr. Rosenblum worked on the Sawant’s staff at the Seattle City Council office throughout the decade of 2010s. He’s a journalist, labor organizer, and a member of the National Writers Union. ---- Netflix Documentary and Innocence Project Help Exonerate Falsely Imprisoned Killers The black political leader, Malcolm X was assassinated 50 years ago in the Audubon ballroom in Harlem, in the City of New York. Assassination is a political murder. The story that we were all to believe was that Malcolm X, as a member and leader of Elijah Muhammad’s nation of Islam, developed differences with Elijah Mohammad. That he left the nation of Islam. And that he was later killed by members of the NY and Newark chapters, who came across the Hudson River and shot him while he spoke out at the ballroom. But as we have learned recently, that story is not the full truth. The truth started coming out when Netflix did a six-part documentary on the assassination. This was followed up by the work of the Innocence Project, who along with help from the Manhattan district attorney’s office got two of the falsely imprisoned supposed killers exonerated. We have learned of the FBI’s intelligence program called Cointelpro. One of its aims was to neutralize any future black leaders. Malcolm X‘s daughters have retained a team of civil rights attorneys who are suing the New York Police Department and the FBI over their possible involvement in the assassination of Malcolm X, and it’s cover-up. Guest - Flint Taylor of the People‘s Law Office of Chicago. Taylor litigated the famous case of Black Panther, Fred Hampton, who was killed by the combined effort of the Chicago Police Department and the FBI. This, Taylor and his colleagues proved after 13 years of litigation.

    58 min

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About

Hosted by 4 attorneys, Law and Disorder is a one hour weekly show providing timely legal perspectives on issues concerning civil liberties, privacy, right to dissent and practices of torture exercised by the US government and private corporations.

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