The Secret Passage Podcast| True Crime & Psychology

Dana Vespoli and GenXJacky

A GenX therapist and a conflicted pornographer, who has recently been called to Christianity, join forces, providing unique perspectives on subjects ranging from true crime, social issues, horror, and Hollywood.

  1. 20h ago

    The West Memphis Three, Part 2: When Fear Becomes Evidence

    Three murdered children. Three teenagers convicted. And a justice system that may have been more interested in finding someone to blame than finding the truth. In Part 2 of our West Memphis Three series, Dana Vespoli and GenXJacky revisit the trials that shocked America and ask a disturbing question: What happens when a community becomes so convinced of someone's guilt that the evidence no longer matters? We examine Jessie Misskelley's controversial confession, the testimony used against Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin, the influence of the Satanic Panic, and the extraordinary role of HBO's Paradise Lost documentaries in challenging the official narrative. From questionable expert witnesses to juror bias, we explore the psychological forces that can turn suspicion into certainty: confirmation bias, groupthink, fear, social pressure, and the human need for closure. And we wrestle with a difficult distinction: Someone can be troubled, unlikeable, or deeply flawed without being guilty of murder. This isn't just a story about three convicted teenagers. It's about what happens when fear replaces critical thinking—and the devastating consequences when the justice system gets it wrong. Understanding human behavior doesn't mean excusing it. 🎧 Listen to The Secret Passage and decide for yourself. Join the conversation: Instagram: https://instagram.com/SecretPassagePodcast TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@secretpassagepodcast YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@secretpassagepodcast Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/SecretPassagePodcast Email: SecretPassagePodcast@gmail.com Send this episode to someone you want to debate it with. #TheSecretPassage #WestMemphisThree #WM3 #TrueCrimePodcast #SatanicPanic #ParadiseLost #CriminalJustice #TrueCrimeCommunity West Memphis Three, WM3, Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin, Jessie Misskelley, West Memphis Three Trial, Satanic Panic, Paradise Lost Documentary, False Confessions, Wrongful Convictions, Criminal Justice System, Confirmation Bias, Groupthink, Jury Bias, Police Interrogations, Coerced Confessions, Reasonable Doubt, True Crime, True Crime Podcast, True Crime Documentary, Unsolved Murders, Robin Hood Hills Murders, Arkansas Murders, 1993 Murders, Criminal Psychology, Forensic Psychology, Psychology of Crime, Trial Controversies, Justice System Failures,

  2. Oct 5

    The West Memphis Three, Part 1: Three Murders, Three Convictions, and a Case That Still Divides America

    On May 5, 1993, eight-year-old Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore disappeared in West Memphis, Arkansas. The following day, their bodies were discovered in a wooded area known as Robin Hood Hills. What followed was an investigation that would become one of the most controversial murder cases in American history. Three teenagers—Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin, and Jessie Misskelley—were convicted. But more than three decades later, questions about the investigation, the confession, and the evidence continue to divide the public. In Part 1, Dana and Jacky revisit the murders and the cultural climate of the 1990s, when the Satanic Panic, poverty, and fear of anyone considered different helped shape public perceptions. They examine Damien's troubled background, the psychological vulnerabilities surrounding Jessie's confession, and the role of documentaries and celebrity advocacy in shaping the story we've come to believe. The questions we're asking: Did investigators follow the evidence, or did they become convinced of a theory and look for evidence to support it? Why would someone confess to a crime they didn't commit—and how can we distinguish a reliable confession from a false one? Does poverty influence who becomes a suspect and who can afford an effective defense? Are documentaries revealing the truth, or are they simply telling us a more compelling version of the story? This is a case about far more than three convictions. It's about the psychology of fear, the consequences of assumptions, and the danger of confusing someone's character with evidence of their guilt. Understanding human behavior doesn't mean excusing it. Join us for Part 1 of The West Memphis Three on The Secret Passage. The conversation doesn't end here. Instagram: https://instagram.com/SecretPassagePodcast YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@secretpassagepodcast Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/SecretPassagePodcast Email: SecretPassagePodcast@gmail.com Send this episode to someone you want to debate it with. Additional Reading & Viewing The West Memphis Three — Part One For listeners who want to explore the case further, we've gathered several resources that examine the investigation, the evidence, the people involved and the different perspectives surrounding the West Memphis Three. 1. The Callahan Archive — Original Case Documents http://callahan.8k.com/ An extensive collection of original case materials, including police interviews, witness statements, trial transcripts and court documents. A valuable resource for anyone who wants to examine the evidence firsthand. 2. Famous Trials — The West Memphis Three https://www.famous-trials.com/westmemphis A comprehensive overview of the case, featuring a timeline, maps, selected transcripts, details about Jessie Misskelley's confession and important court decisions. 3. Innocence Project — What You Should Know About the West Memphis Three https://innocenceproject.org/news/who-are-west-memphis-three-damien-echols/ An examination of the case from the perspective of innocence advocacy, including concerns about the confession, DNA evidence and the legal implications of the Alford pleas. 4. Crooked Tree: A West Memphis 3 Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/crooked-tree-a-west-memphis-3-podcast/id1896042612 A detailed, victim-focused examination of the case that explores the lives of Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore, their families and the West Memphis community. 5. Paradise Lost — HBO Documentary Series https://www.hbo.com/documentaries The documentary series that brought international attention to the case and helped shape public perceptions of the West Memphis Three. Particularly relevant to our discussion about the power of documentaries to influence what audiences believe. A note to our listeners: These resources present different perspectives, and some contain graphic descriptions of violence against children. We encourage you to examine the evidence, question the narratives and remember Stevie, Christopher and Michael—the three boys at the heart of this case.   West Memphis Three, West Memphis Three Part 1, The Secret Passage Podcast, Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin, Jessie Misskelley, Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers, Michael Moore, West Memphis Arkansas, Robin Hood Hills murders, 1993 murders, Satanic Panic, Jessie Misskelley confession, false confessions, police interrogation, wrongful convictions, criminal psychology, forensic psychology, investigative failures, tunnel vision, confirmation bias, poverty and justice, criminal justice system, Paradise Lost documentary, West of Memphis documentary, celebrity advocacy, Johnny Depp, Eddie Vedder, Peter Jackson, true crime, true crime podcast, unsolved murders, murder investigation, Alford plea, justice for the victims

  3. Sep 28

    The Murder of Robert Wone: Three Men, One House and a 20-Year Mystery

    Three men were inside the house. Their guest was stabbed to death. And nearly 20 years later, his murder remains unsolved. On August 2, 2006, 32-year-old attorney Robert Wone stayed overnight at the Washington, D.C., home of his longtime friend Joseph Price. Also living in the house were Victor Zaborsky and Dylan Ward. Within approximately 90 minutes of Robert's arrival, a 911 call reported that he had been stabbed. The three housemates maintained that an unknown intruder had entered their home. Investigators questioned that account, pointing to the unusual crime scene, the apparent lack of defensive wounds and other forensic findings. All three men were eventually charged with offenses related to an alleged cover-up. All three were acquitted. No one has been convicted of Robert Wone's murder. But the mystery doesn't end with the evidence. Dana and Jacky explore the investigation, the competing theories and the psychological questions surrounding a case that has fascinated true-crime audiences for two decades. Could loyalty become stronger than someone's commitment to the truth? What happens when an entire relationship becomes organized around a secret? And how much weight should we give suspicious behavior when the evidence cannot establish what actually happened? We also examine the role of sexuality, assumptions about consensual BDSM, potential investigative bias and the important distinction between suspicion and proof. THE QUESTION: If someone you loved were involved in something terrible, what would it take for you to tell the truth? Send this episode to someone you want to debate it with. ADDITIONAL READING & RESOURCES Want to investigate the Robert Wone case further? We've gathered additional reporting, courtroom coverage and documentary resources for anyone who wants to explore the evidence and competing theories. Want to explore the Robert Wone case further? Here are some articles, investigative resources and documentaries that examine the evidence, trial and unanswered questions. THE CASE & INVESTIGATION Robert Wone: Life, Death, and Love — Washingtonian https://washingtonian.com/2010/04/20/robert-wone-life-death-and-love/ Who Murdered Robert Wone? — Investigative Blog https://whomurderedrobertwone.com/ THE TRIAL & VERDICT Three Men Acquitted in the Robert Wone Case — The Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/national/2010/06/30/3-men-acquitted-of-wone-charges/da12d2e4-3bde-4554-b561-a11feaf36fe9/ Good Fences, Bad Neighbors — Washingtonian https://washingtonian.com/2010/06/04/good-fences-bad-neighbors/ ROBERT'S FAMILY & THE AFTERMATH Robert Wone's Family Settles Civil Lawsuit — The Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/wone-family-settles-20-million-lawsuit-against-three-former-dc-roommates/2011/08/02/gIQAsDDvsI_story.html Twenty Years Later: New Dispute Emerges — The Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/08/30/20-years-later-new-dispute-emerges-over-notorious-dupont-circle-killing/ DOCUMENTARY Who Killed Robert Wone? — Peacock Documentary https://washingtonian.com/2023/03/13/robert-wone-documentary-peacock/   Robert Wone, Robert Wone murder, Who Killed Robert Wone, 1509 Swann Street, Washington DC murder, unsolved murder, true crime, true crime podcast, criminal psychology, forensic psychology, murder mystery, Joseph Price, Victor Zaborsky, Dylan Ward, The Secret Passage,

  4. Sep 21

    Christa Pike: She Killed at 18. Now Tennessee Will Execute Her at 50

    Christa Pike was 18 when she participated in the brutal murder of 19-year-old Colleen Slemmer. She was 20 when she was sentenced to death. Now, at 50, Christa Pike is scheduled to be executed on September 30, 2026. The murder of Colleen Slemmer was extraordinarily cruel. She was lured into the woods, tortured and killed by a group that included Pike and her boyfriend. Pike later bragged about the killing and kept a piece of Slemmer's skull. But this episode of The Secret Passage asks a harder question: What happened to Christa Pike before she became capable of doing something so horrific? Dana and Jacky examine Pike's childhood of severe abuse, neglect, sexual violence and instability—and what developmental trauma can do to attachment, emotional regulation and a child's understanding of love, violence and relationships. Jacky explains, adverse childhood experiences don't make someone a murderer, and millions of trauma survivors never become violent. However, understanding the development of violent behavior is different from excusing it. They also confront the uncomfortable disparity at the center of the case: Pike was 18 when the murder occurred; her boyfriend and co-defendant was 17. Pike received death. He received life. Thirty years later, another question emerges: If a person changes profoundly in prison, who exactly are we executing—the 18-year-old who committed the crime or the 50-year-old she became? And where does that leave Colleen Slemmer, whose opportunity to grow, change and have a future was taken from her forever? This is not an episode about excusing Christa Pike. It's about whether we can hold two uncomfortable truths at the same time: What happened to Colleen Slemmer was horrific. What happened to Christa Pike before the murder matters too. Can someone deserve both our condemnation and our empathy? Could you sentence the 18-year-old Christa Pike to death knowing everything you know about her childhood—and knowing who she would become 30 years later? Send this episode to someone you want to debate it with. Instagram: The Secret Passage Podcast on Instagram TikTok: The Secret Passage Podcast on TikTok YouTube: The Secret Passage Podcast on YouTube JOIN US ON PATREON The conversation doesn't end here... Join The Secret Passage Patreon community for: ✔️ Early access ✔️ Bonus episodes ✔️ Behind-the-scenes content Join The Secret Passage on Patreon FURTHER READING & RESOURCES Tennessee Department of Correction — Christa Pike Execution Information Official information regarding Pike's scheduled September 30, 2026 execution. Tennessee Department of Correction: Christa Pike Execution Advisory Tennessee Supreme Court — State v. Christa Gail Pike The court record detailing the murder of Colleen Slemmer, Pike's conviction, aggravating and mitigating evidence, and the court's review of her death sentence. Read the Tennessee Supreme Court case materials Christa Pike's Clemency Petition & Current Clemency Case Pike's attorneys are asking Tennessee Governor Bill Lee to commute her death sentence to life without parole. The petition focuses heavily on her age at the time of the crime, extensive childhood trauma, mental-health history and development during incarceration. Death Penalty Information Center: Christa Pike's Clemency Request Adolescent Brain Development & Capital Punishment For listeners interested in our discussion about whether the legal line at 18 reflects what neuroscience tells us about development, this academic review specifically examines capital punishment for people who committed crimes at ages 18–20. Neuroscience and Death as a Penalty for Late Adolescents Tennessee Death Row Facts Current information from Tennessee regarding its death-row population. Pike is currently Tennessee's only female death-row prisoner. Tennessee Death Row Facts Christa Pike, Christa Gail Pike, Colleen Slemmer, Christa Pike execution, Christa Pike death row, Christa Pike case, Christa Pike clemency, Tennessee death row, Tennessee death penalty, September 30 execution, capital punishment, death penalty, women on death row, female death row inmates, juvenile brain development, adolescent brain development, developmental trauma, childhood trauma, adverse childhood experiences, ACEs, trauma psychology, criminal psychology, forensic psychology, rehabilitation, punishment and rehabilitation, clemency, life without parole, Job Corps murder, Knoxville Tennessee murder, Tadaryl Shipp, Shadolla Peterson, true crime, true crime podcast, true crime psychology, psychology podcast, The Secret Passage, The Secret Passage Podcast,

  5. Sep 14

    Brock Turner & Chanel Miller: When His Potential Mattered More Than Her Pain

    She woke up in a hospital with pine needles in her hair, her underwear missing, and no memory of how she got there. In 2015, Chanel Miller attended a fraternity party at Stanford with her younger sister. The next thing she remembered was waking up in a hospital and learning that she had been found unconscious behind a dumpster while Brock Turner sexually assaulted her. Two bystanders intervened, chased Turner down, and held him until police arrived. Turner was later convicted of three felony sexual-assault charges and sentenced to six months in jail, serving only a fraction of that sentence. But this episode of The Secret Passage is not really about Brock Turner. It's about Chanel Miller. Dana and Jacky examine what it means to survive an assault you cannot remember—when other people, medical evidence, photographs, lawyers and eventually a jury have to tell you what happened to your own body. They talk about depersonalization, loss of agency, the assumptions we make about consent, and the strange cultural expectation that victims must clearly say "no" rather than requiring an actual "yes." They also wrestle with one of the most uncomfortable ideas in the episode: people are rarely all good or all bad. Chanel herself resisted reducing Turner to a one-dimensional monster, even while holding him responsible for what he did—a conversation that opens the door to questions about moral complexity, accountability, rehabilitation and whether offenders can ever meaningfully change. Then the conversation turns to Judge Aaron Persky, the controversial sentence, and the outrage that followed. Was the sentence disgracefully lenient? Did the judge still act within the law? And when public anger eventually cost Persky both his judicial career and another job, at what point does accountability become permanent punishment? Finally, Dana and Jacky ask a question that rarely gets discussed in true crime: What are we supposed to do with offenders after we condemn them? Because anger alone does not reduce recidivism. Jacky discusses the importance of treatment, taking responsibility, acknowledging the offense, and the possibility that genuine accountability could involve an offender publicly confronting what he did rather than disappearing into shame and denial. And that leads to perhaps the hardest question of all: Can someone do something unforgivable—and still have an obligation to become better? This is Part Two of our discussion on sexual assault, rape culture and accountability following our episode on Steubenville. Content warning: This episode contains detailed discussion of sexual assault, rape-kit examinations, victim blaming and trauma. Send this episode to someone you want to debate it with. FOLLOW THE SECRET PASSAGE 📸 Instagram: The Secret Passage Podcast on Instagram 🎵 TikTok: The Secret Passage Podcast on TikTok 🎥 YouTube: The Secret Passage Podcast on YouTube 🔐 JOIN US ON PATREON The conversation doesn't end here... Join The Secret Passage Patreon community for: ✔️ Early access ✔️ Exclusive therapist breakdowns ✔️ Bonus episodes ✔️ Behind-the-scenes content ✔️ Research, books & case resources Join The Secret Passage on Patreon GO FURTHER DOWN THE PASSAGE 📖 Know My Name — Chanel Miller This is the most important companion to the episode. Miller writes about the assault, the investigation, trial, media attention, impact statement, and the long process of reclaiming her identity after being known publicly as "Emily Doe."  Know My Name — Penguin Random House 🧠 Trauma After Sexual Violence — RAINN A useful overview of how sexual violence can affect memory, emotions, the body, and a survivor's sense of safety and identity. It also discusses experiences such as feeling disconnected from your body or emotions.  Understanding Trauma After Sexual Violence — RAINN 💬 Supporting Survivors Without Blaming Them — RAINN Why questions such as "Why didn't you fight back?" or focusing on how much a survivor drank can unintentionally shift responsibility away from the person who committed the assault. RAINN offers practical guidance on responding to disclosures with validation, choice, and support. How to TALK With Survivors of Sexual Violence — RAINN 🚲 Bystander Intervention — RAINN The Brock Turner case might have ended very differently had two passing cyclists not recognized that something was wrong, intervened, pursued Turner, and stayed until police arrived. The episode contrasts their actions with the failure of bystanders in the Steubenville case. Show Up, Speak Out, Step In — RAINN ⚖️ Treatment and Rehabilitation of People Who Commit Sexual Offenses — ATSA Our conversation eventually asks a harder question than simply, "How long should someone go to prison?": What actually reduces the chance that someone sexually offends again? The Association for the Treatment and Prevention of Sexual Abuse provides research-based information on risk assessment, treatment, accountability, community safety, and rehabilitation. Association for the Treatment and Prevention of Sexual Abuse 📊 Does Treatment Reduce Sexual Reoffending? — Systematic Review & Meta-Analysis This review examined thousands of individuals across multiple studies and found that psychosocial treatment—particularly cognitive-behavioral approaches—was associated on average with lower sexual recidivism, although outcomes varied considerably by program and population. Do we really want offenders returning to society having received no meaningful treatment at all? Sexual Offender Treatment for Reducing Recidivism — Campbell Systematic Review 🆘 Survivor Support If you or someone you know has experienced sexual assault, RAINN's National Sexual Assault Hotline offers confidential, 24/7 support. Call: 800-656-HOPE (4673) Text: HOPE to 64673 RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline

  6. Sep 7

    Everyone Knew. Nobody Stopped it. The Steubenville Rape Case

    A teenage girl was sexually assaulted at a party. People knew it was happening. They took photos. They made videos. They joked about it. They posted about it online. And almost no one stepped in. In 2012, a 16-year-old girl in Steubenville, Ohio, was sexually assaulted by high-school football players Trent Mays and Ma'Lik Richmond while she was severely intoxicated and unable to consent. But what made the case especially disturbing was how many other teenagers knew what was happening—and how openly some of them documented, mocked and discussed it afterward. The social-media evidence would eventually become crucial to the case. Dana and Jacky go beyond the question of what happened to ask something much harder: Why didn't anybody stop it? They examine the psychology of the bystander effect, pluralistic ignorance, social status, conformity and group behavior—including the possibility that one high-status teenager speaking up might have changed the behavior of everyone else in the room. They also look at the strange double-edged role of social media. The same technology used to humiliate and further victimize the girl also created a digital trail that helped expose what happened. And then comes an uncomfortable question: What happens when the people around you seem to treat something horrific as normal? Could the group's reaction actually change an individual's perception of right and wrong? Would these teenagers have behaved differently if there had only been three people in the room instead of a crowd? And could one respected person saying "This is wrong" have broken the spell? This episode also asks whether teenagers who participated in or celebrated something horrific can genuinely change as they become adults—and whether remorse years later should change the way we see who they were at 16. Dana and Jacky wrestle with that question directly. This is Part One of our discussion. Next, The Secret Passage turns to the Brock Turner/Chanel Miller case—and the uncomfortable similarities between what happened at a high-school party in Ohio and what happened three years later on Stanford's campus. What do you think: If ONE popular person at that party had stood up and said, "This is wrong," would everyone else have followed? Send this episode to someone you want to debate it with. Content warning: This episode discusses sexual assault involving a minor, victim blaming and disturbing descriptions of sexual violence. Send this episode to someone you want to debate it with. FOLLOW THE SECRET PASSAGE 📸 Instagram: The Secret Passage Podcast on Instagram 🎵 TikTok: The Secret Passage Podcast on TikTok 🎥 YouTube: The Secret Passage Podcast on YouTube 🔐 JOIN US ON PATREON The conversation doesn't end here... Join The Secret Passage Patreon community for: ✔️ Early access ✔️ Exclusive therapist breakdowns ✔️ Bonus episodes ✔️ Behind-the-scenes content ✔️ Research, books & case resources Join The Secret Passage on Patreon GO FURTHER DOWN THE PASSAGE Roll Red Roll — PBS/POV The documentary examines the Steubenville assault, the football culture surrounding it, the role of social media and the behavior of the bystanders. PBS also provides discussion guides, reading lists and educational resources.  Watch and learn more about Roll Red Roll on PBS  Bystander Intervention — RAINN RAINN: Stop Sexual Violence — Step In With CARE Pluralistic Ignorance & the Bystander Effect — Research Pluralistic ignorance can occur when people privately think something is wrong but observe everyone else's inaction and mistakenly conclude that they may be the one overreacting. Researchers also describe diffusion of responsibility and fear of evaluation as barriers to intervention. Read the research on pluralistic ignorance and bystander intervention Rape Myths, Social Media & Steubenville — Peer-Reviewed Research This study specifically analyzed the Steubenville case and examined how social media and news coverage both reinforced and challenged rape myths surrounding the victim, perpetrators and assault.  The Presence of Rape Myths in the Virtual World: The Steubenville Sexual Assault Case Social Media and the Steubenville Narrative — Digital Journalism Researchers analyzed hundreds of local and national articles about Steubenville to examine how social-media sources shaped portrayals of the victim and perpetrators. Victimized on Plain Sites: Social and Alternative Media's Impact on the Steubenville Rape Case Roll Red Roll Educational Clips & Discussion Materials This is actually a fantastic link for listeners who want to go deeper without necessarily watching the entire documentary. American Documentary provides clips addressing the students, digital activism, social media and people who spoke up. Roll Red Roll Educational Resources & Film Clips

  7. Aug 31

    Mom's Behaving Badly: Cybersex, Lies, Murder (Part 2)

    Everybody in this love triangle was lying. One of them ended up dead. In this installment of Moms Behaving Badly, Dana and Jacky dive into the bizarre TallHotBlond case. Middle-aged husband Thomas Montgomery reinvented himself online as a young Marine named "Tommy" and fell for 17-year-old "Jessi." But Jessi wasn't Jessi. She was Mary Shieler—the teenager's own mother—using her daughter's identity and photographs online. Then 22-year-old Brian Barrett entered the picture, and an online fantasy became deadly. Beyond the murder, Dana and Jacky explore the psychology of catfishing, masculinity, online disinhibition, self-discrepancy, fantasy and our increasingly curated digital identities. Was Thomas obsessed with Jessi—or with the man he got to become when he was talking to her? And the bigger question: Are we really that different today? 📚 GO FURTHER DOWN THE PASSAGE Want to dig deeper into the psychology behind this case? 🧠 The Online Disinhibition Effect — John Suler Why anonymity, invisibility and distance can change the way we behave online. 🪞 Self-Discrepancy Theory — E. Tory Higgins The psychology of the actual self, ideal self and ought self—and what happens when the person we are doesn't match the person we desperately want to be. 🎭 Why Do People Catfish? — Psychology Today Loneliness, insecurity, identity exploration and the psychology behind creating someone else online. 📱 Deceptive Self-Presentation on Social Media — Research Study Research examining why people create deceptive versions of themselves on social media. 🔎 Cyber Love Triangle Fuels Murder — ABC News More background on Thomas Montgomery, Brian Barrett and the bizarre online triangle behind the TalHotBlond case.   FOLLOW THE SECRET PASSAGE 📸 Instagram: The Secret Passage Podcast on Instagram 🎵 TikTok: The Secret Passage Podcast on TikTok 🎥 YouTube: The Secret Passage Podcast on YouTube 🔐 JOIN US ON PATREON The conversation doesn't end here... Join The Secret Passage Patreon community for: ✔️ Early access ✔️ Exclusive therapist breakdowns ✔️ Bonus episodes ✔️ Behind-the-scenes content ✔️ Research, books & case resources Join The Secret Passage on Patreon

  8. Aug 24

    Moms Behaving Badly: Mom, Bully, Stalker (Part 1)

    What happens when the person your child turns to for protection is secretly the person hurting her? In this episode of Secret Passage: Moms Behaving Badly: Mom, Bully, Stalker, Dana and Jacky examine the bizarre and deeply disturbing case of Kendra Licari, the Michigan mother who secretly sent anonymous, harassing messages to her teenage daughter Lauryn and Lauryn's then-boyfriend, Owen. For months, the teenagers and their families tried to figure out who was behind the messages. Friends and classmates became suspects. Relationships fractured. Law enforcement became involved. And all the while, Kendra appeared to be another concerned mother trying to help uncover the person tormenting her daughter. Then investigators traced the messages back to Kendra herself. Following the case featured in Netflix's Unknown Number: The High School Catfish, Dana and Jacky go beyond the shocking reveal and ask the question the documentary leaves hanging: Why would a mother do this to her own child? Jacky brings a therapist's perspective to the conversation as they explore attention-seeking behavior, betrayal trauma, attachment, empathy, control, jealousy, possible psychological motivations, and the enormous difference between explaining someone's behavior and excusing it. They also examine some of the most uncomfortable questions surrounding the case: Was Kendra trying to keep Lauryn dependent on her? Why did so much of the harassment revolve around Lauryn's relationship with Owen? Why were some of the messages sexual in nature? What was Kendra's end goal? Was her remorse about what she'd done—or about finally getting caught? And how does a child rebuild her ability to trust when the person who was supposed to be her safest relationship became the source of the danger? Kendra ultimately pleaded guilty to two counts of stalking a minor and was sentenced to 19 months to five years in prison. She was released in August 2024. And perhaps the biggest question: Can a mother and daughter ever truly repair a relationship after a betrayal like this? WANT TO GO FURTHER DOWN THE PASSAGE? Tell us what YOU think about this case. Send this episode to someone you want to debate it with. FOLLOW THE SECRET PASSAGE 📸 Instagram: The Secret Passage Podcast on Instagram 🎵 TikTok: The Secret Passage Podcast on TikTok 🎥 YouTube: The Secret Passage Podcast on YouTube 🔐 JOIN US ON PATREON The conversation doesn't end here... Join The Secret Passage Patreon community for: ✔️ Early access ✔️ Exclusive therapist breakdowns ✔️ Bonus episodes ✔️ Behind-the-scenes content ✔️ Research, books & case resources Join The Secret Passage on Patreon 📩 HAVE A CASE IDEA, QUESTION OR COMMENT? We'd love to hear from you! Email The Secret Passage This episode discusses cyberbullying, emotional abuse, sexualized harassment involving minors, and suicide-related threats. Further Reading & Watching Netflix — Where are Kendra and Lauryn now? Read Netflix Tudum's update on the Licari family TIME — The true story behind Unknown Number Read TIME's account of the Kendra Licari case A&E — The psychology question This article specifically examines the comparison some people have made between Kendra's behavior and "Munchausen by Internet," while exploring the dangers of trying to attach a clinical explanation to behavior without sufficient evidence. Read A&E's psychological exploration of the case People — Did Kendra tell the truth? Director Skye Borgman discusses her lengthy interview with Kendra, Kendra's explanations for her behavior, and why the documentary doesn't necessarily validate Kendra's version of events. Read People's interview about Kendra's account

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4.8
out of 5
27 Ratings

About

A GenX therapist and a conflicted pornographer, who has recently been called to Christianity, join forces, providing unique perspectives on subjects ranging from true crime, social issues, horror, and Hollywood.

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