"The wolves always know where the sheep are." Roger has one rule for how to choose a therapist, and it starts with admitting that a wounded healer can be any of three very different people. Nation opens with the phrase everybody repeats: hurt people hurt people. Roger does not like it. Some hurt people do hurt people, but most of them do not, and the phrase quietly hands back the responsibility of the ones who do. What it also erases is everybody who was harmed, who was traumatized, and who decided not to pass it on. Then he narrows it to his own profession, and the answer is a taxonomy rather than a verdict. There are therapists who were wounded, worked through it, and came out wiser for it. There are therapists who are still wounded and have not finished, and they make a particular kind of mistake: they assume you have their problem, whatever it is. And there is a small subset who are predators, who chose this work for the access it gives them. That is where the proverb lands. Where do children congregate? Schools. So schools are full of wonderful teachers, and they are also where a predator goes to be near children. The therapy room is the same shape. The wolves always know where the sheep are. Roger takes the same idea through medicine. A surgeon who has had surgery is fine, and may be better for it. A surgeon with a tremor is not. The injury only matters when it touches the work. He also repeats a hypothesis he is careful to label a hypothesis, that a subset of orthopedic surgeons carry a little sadism, and he is quick to add that his own best friend from high school is an orthopedic surgeon and is nothing of the kind. Then the practical half. What do you actually ask? Not "have you had trauma." Ask how people change. Listen for a hypothesis rather than a cure. Watch for the therapist who spends the hour on their own problems. The rest is Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear, and one story from it. A recently divorced woman needs a house painter. He arrives clean cut, in uniform, with a clipboard and a good price, and the dog goes crazy. Her friend says he seems nice and the price is good, are you going to use him? She says no. My dog didn't like him, and my dog's never wrong. De Becker's point is that she trusted her dog over her own judgment, when the feeling was hers the whole time. Say no and you lose a low bid. Say yes and you might lose far more than that. Or, as Nassim Taleb puts it, you are picking up pennies in front of a steamroller. What we cover: Why "hurt people hurt people" gives the wrong people a passThe three kinds of wounded healer, and which one is dangerousThe wolves always know where the sheep are, and why schools are the clearest exampleWhen an injury matters to the work and when it does notThe orthopedic surgeon hypothesis, hedges includedThe question that actually screens a therapist: how do people change?Mass attracts mass, and the clients a therapist never seesPeak performance work against traditional therapy, and where the power differential is realGavin de Becker, The Gift of Fear, and the woman who trusted her dogPicking up pennies in front of a steamrollerChapters 0:00 The wolves always know where the sheep are 1:26 "Hurt people hurt people" and why Roger won't use it 2:33 Born bad, and Bad To The Bone 3:16 The three kinds of wounded healer 4:46 Where do children congregate? 5:23 The same is true in the therapy profession 6:16 The surgeon who had surgery, and the surgeon with a tremor 8:27 The therapist who talks about their own problems 10:27 How do people change? The question that screens 11:32 A hypothesis, not a cure 12:47 Power, freedom, clarity and calm 16:11 Mass attracts mass 18:18 Orthopedic surgeons and a little sadism 20:03 Where the power differential is real 22:29 The Gift of Fear, and the dog that was never wrong 25:30 Picking up pennies in front of a steamroller 26:12 Choose somebody who doesn't give you the creeps Images in this episode: via Pexels. Second Thoughts, Episode 75. Dr. Roger Hall is a Peak Performance Psychologist who helps leaders master their thinking and achieve greater power, freedom, clarity, and calm. Send us Fan Mail Support the show Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Second Thoughts with Dr. Roger Hall! If you enjoyed today's insights, don't forget to subscribe for more content on leadership, productivity, and personal growth. Share this episode with friends, colleagues, or anyone who could benefit from these powerful strategies. 🎧 Listen & Subscribe: Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major platforms. 🌐 Connect with Dr. Hall: Visit drrogerhall.com for resources and more. 🧭 Work with Roger: compassconsultation.com 📧 Have a question? Submit it for a chance to be featured in a future episode! Follow me on socials: X - @DoctorRogerHall Facebook - Second Thoughts Instagram - @DoctorRogerHall Linkedin - @Dr Roger Hall Youtube - @DoctorRogerHall Rumble - @SecondThoughts Opinions expressed are not therapy or constitute any professional relationship with anyone who watches or listens. For education and entertainment only.
