Alternative Exit

Andy
  • 5.0 (3)
  • Entrepreneurship
  • Updated Weekly

Alternative Exit is a dedicated to educating small business owners about the possibilities, benefits, and challenges of transitioning to an employee ownership model. There are over 200m SMEs with an owner who will be retiring in the next 10 years, many of which will never find a buyer for their business, forcing them to close their doors.  There is an alternative. This show will explore various the different forms of employee ownership and best practices for successful transitions. Each episode features interviews with experts in employee ownership, business owners who have made the transition, and consultants who facilitate these changes.

  1. 3d ago

    Alternative Exit #70 | Eleven Years to an Overnight Success | Andreas Jørgensen, Demokratisk Erhverv

    Two years ago Denmark had almost no employee-owned companies. Since then it has passed employee ownership legislation (in force 1 January 2026), launched Center for Medarbejdereje, a national centre for employee ownership, and completed the largest study yet comparing UK Employee Ownership Trusts with management buyouts. Andreas explains how the Danish model differs from the UK EOT, with direct ownership through an employee association and tax that is paid back from surplus over time. He shares the study’s headline numbers, why Denmark’s unions moved from sceptical to supportive, and what other countries can learn from a decade of groundwork. Chapters 00:54 Welcome back: a year of momentum02:03 The first companies using the new law04:47 A perfect storm: politics, unions and 40,000 businesses05:51 Why the unions came on board11:17 The Danish model vs the UK EOT13:03 Tax: level treatment, paid back from surplus16:25 Gifting a company to employees17:24 The largest EOT vs MBO study23:10 The most surprising finding29:37 Scaling: pioneers, advisors, policy34:16 Lessons for other countries37:59 Fast roundKey takeaways✅ In a study of 218 UK EOTs against 330 comparable management buyouts, EOTs showed productivity about 5 percentage points higher and revenue growth 8% higher.💡 Payroll per employee was £6,300 higher in EOTs, with investment and EBITDA margins on par with MBOs.🌟 The Danish model gives employees direct, democratic ownership through an association, not a trust.✅ The seller’s tax moves to the employee vehicle, which repays it from surplus, so a weak year does not trigger a tax bill.🎧 In highly unionised countries, bring the unions in early. Denmark started those conversations ten years ago.Notable quotes“If the unions don’t want this to happen, it’s not gonna happen in a lot of European countries.”“It seems that they were actually, as we say in Denmark, hitting several flies with one stroke.”“It may not always be the easiest way, but it’s the most purposeful way.”LinksAndreas Pinstrup Jørgensen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreas-pinstrup-jørgensen-021ba3a8/Tænketanken Demokratisk Erhverv: https://demokratiskerhverv.dkCenter for Medarbejdereje: https://medarbejdereje.dkMedejer, Andreas’s book: https://www.gyldendal.dk/produkter/andreas-pinstrup-jørgensen/medejer-46926/hæftet-9788702254112The Citizen’s Share, by Joseph Blasi, Richard Freeman and Douglas KruseAndy Farquharson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    Alternative Exit #70 | Eleven Years to an Overnight Success | Andreas Jørgensen, Demokratisk Erhverv

  2. Sep 24

    Alternative Exit #69 | The Finish Line She Didn't Want to Cross | Shannon Litton, 3LS

    About the episode: Shannon co-founded 5by5, a Nashville marketing agency that made the Inc. 5000 list in five of its first seven eligible years. As private equity and trade buyers came calling, she realised selling would mean walking in the next day and saying goodbye to the team that built it. Then a new client told her over lunch that his employees owned the company. Shannon walks Andy through years of research, winning over a sceptical boomer partner, and starting with a 30% ESOP because a bigger loan felt too risky. She explains why she brought 12 leaders into the plan a year early, how 55 people heard the news at Disney World, and why companies need a steady cadence of inspiration and information. Then a conversation with her mentor, 3LS CEO Eric Strickland, made 5by5 100% employee owned within weeks. Today Shannon leads 3LS Professional Services, part of an employee-owned group of about 1,500 people, and argues the movement should count employee owners, not ESOPs. Guest: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/slitton/ 🔗 3LS: https://3ls.com 🔗 5by5: https://5by5agency.com 🔗 Tennessee Center for Employee Ownership: https://www.tnceo.org About The Alternative Exit: A podcast exploring employee ownership as a succession planning strategy, hosted by Andy Farquharson of a better monday. Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ Learn more: https://abettermonday.me Links and resources Alternative Exit #42 with Eric Strickland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNLYhuPNAio NCEO: https://www.nceo.org Journey to an ESOP podcast (The ESOP Guy): https://journeytoanesop.buzzsprout.com The ESOP Association: https://www.esop.org Book: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, Patrick Lencioni #EmployeeOwnership #ESOP #SuccessionPlanning #BusinessExit #AgencyLife #OwnershipCulture #SilverTsunami #Leadership #EmployeeOwned

    Alternative Exit #69 | The Finish Line She Didn't Want to Cross | Shannon Litton, 3LS

  3. Sep 17

    Alternative Exit #68 | It Took a Strike To Give the Company Away | Sam Boustred, Scott Bader

    am Boustred, Chair of the Global Members' Board, Scott Bader (Wollaston, UK) Scott Bader went employee owned in 1951, 63 years before the Employee Ownership Trust existed in UK law. Founder Ernest Bader was a Quaker who did not want to share ownership. He wanted to dissolve it. So he put every share into a registered charity, the Scott Bader Commonwealth. Sam joined the company in 2012 as a process operator on the shop floor. He is now the first person to hold the Chair of the Global Members' Board as a full time role, leading industrial democracy across a group of around 800 colleagues. He talks Andy through the profit formula that has not moved since 1951, the strike that finally forced Ernest to hand the company over, why every pound paid to colleagues must be matched to charity, and what ownership means when nobody owns anything. Key takeaways✅ Scott Bader's shares sit in a registered charity, so the Charity Commission holds the business to its purpose as well as its numbers.💡 The split has held since 1951: 60% of surplus stays in the business, up to 20% goes to colleagues, and every pound paid to colleagues is matched to charitable causes.🌟 Ownership is not automatic understanding. Six months of structured onboarding, culture cafés and refreshers every couple of years keep it real.✅ Members do not vote on daily decisions, they vote on who makes them. The 1963 constitution gave members appointment rights over directors.🎧 When the 2022 constitution review went to a vote, 80% of colleagues took part and 95% of them backed the changes.Notable quotes"We don't own the shares, we own the responsibility." "You don't get many bosses or owners of businesses who go on strike, because you'd be poking yourself in the eye." "In a true democracy you're not deciding all of the day to day decisions. You're deciding who is making those decisions, and you have the right to appoint and remove them." LinksSam Boustred: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samboustred/Scott Bader: https://www.scottbader.comScott Bader Commonwealth: https://www.scottbader.com/about-us/commonwealth-board/Fred H. Blum, Work and Community: The Scott Bader Commonwealth and the Quest for a New Social Order (1968): https://www.routledge.com/Work-and-Community-The-Scott-Bader-Commonwealth-and-the-Quest-for-a-New-Social-Order/Blum/p/book/9781041396406John Hoffmire: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-hoffmire-5999621/John Hoffmire on The Alternative Exit, episode 34: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2414792/episodes/17747330Andy Farquharson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    Alternative Exit #68 | It Took a Strike To Give the Company Away | Sam Boustred, Scott Bader

  4. Sep 10

    Alternative Exit #67 | It Feels Too Good To Be True….but It Is | Kevin Franks, novo hair

    In 1980 Kevin walked out of his accountancy studies to cut hair. Three years later he opened his first salon in Southend with five chairs and a £1,000 decorating budget. This April, 43 years on, he handed the whole business to his team. novo hair is now 100% employee owned through a UK Employee Ownership Trust, 15 people, all partners. Kevin walks Andy through the three trade sales that fell over, why he could not stomach three years of being hated by his own staff, how he landed on a number and then deliberately took the bottom of the valuation range, and the grand announcement that landed to fifteen completely blank faces. Five months in, he shares what has actually changed: the bonus pot the team controls, the financials they now lean into, and the tumble dryer filter that suddenly matters. Key takeaways✅ A trade sale is not the only number. Salons typically fetch one to one and a half times earnings, and every offer Kevin received came with three to five years of him staying put.💡 Leaving something on the table can be the point. Kevin took the bottom of the valuation range so the business could carry the debt and still pay the team an annual bonus from year one.🌟 Do not save the announcement for a big reveal. Fifteen people who have never heard of an EOT cannot get excited in the two minutes before you explain it.✅ Give the team a quick win they control. Retail profit and in-salon treatments go straight into a bonus pot, so ownership shows up in this month's numbers, not year five.💡 Ownership changes how the financials land. The same numbers that used to glaze people over now get real attention, because the net profit is theirs.🎧 Get your ducks in a row first. If the business cannot run without you for a month, it is not ready to be handed over.Notable quotes"The old adage is if it feels too good to be true, it's too good to be true. I very much feel with the EOT it feels too good to be true, but it is true." "I can be hated to a degree, but I can't be hated for three years and be there every day." "That won't save me a hundred and twenty pound. It will save you a hundred and twenty pound." LinksKevin Franks on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-franks-208b4aa/novo hair: https://novohair.co.ukGo EO (Chris Maslin), who valued the business: https://goeo.ukChris Maslin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-maslin-9a5a2316/Richer Sounds, the EOT Kevin learned from: https://www.richersounds.comHost, Andy Farquharson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    Alternative Exit #67 | It Feels Too Good To Be True….but It Is | Kevin Franks, novo hair

  5. Jul 16

    Alternative Exit #66 | Returns & Purpose on a Level Playing Field | Monarch's Katie & Michael

    Our first ever double episode. 🎧 Andy sits down with both founders of Monarch Investment Partners to explore the question at the heart of employee ownership: who should own your business next? Katie and Michael unpack why external capital has been the missing piece in scaling employee ownership, how ESOPs create genuine alignment of incentives, and why returns and purpose belong on a level playing field. A candid, practical listen for any owner weighing their exit. 🌟 Chapters00:00 — The double episode format 04:00 — Bridging employee ownership and external capital 05:18 — Why the "benevolent seller" model needs capital to scale 06:57 — Monarch's focus: 100% employee-owned ESOP transitions 08:04 — How ESOPs create alignment of incentives 09:53 — Turning open-book data into ownership behaviour 12:38 — Underwriting and the buy box 14:16 — Diligence on the management team 18:36 — How Monarch differs from the wider field 21:27 — The buy box: $5–15m EBITDA, US, industry agnostic 23:48 — Post-transaction support and Michael's book 27:16 — Measuring success: the double bottom line 30:13 — Rapid fire questions 36:06 — The monarch butterfly effect Key Takeaways✅ Capital, not appetite, is the biggest barrier to scaling employee ownership. ✅ ESOPs align incentives, but that only compounds through repeated communication, typically from year three. ✅ People manage their behaviour to the data they are given. Open-book transparency turns employees into owners. ✅ Returns and purpose can sit on a level playing field. Impact and competitive returns aren't a trade-off. Notable Quotes💡 "Who do you want to own your business? It may very well not be a private equity firm." — Michael McGinley 💡 "We're not trying to sacrifice returns for impact. We want to prove both can coexist." — Katie Kimball LinksMonarch Investment Partners: https://www.monarchinvestmentpartners.com/ Michael McGinley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeljmcginley/ Katie Kimball on LinkedIn: [add — see note below] Monarch Performance Disclosure: https://mcusercontent.com/3bef2e9f4d6f9832d50e71e3e/files/cd67868e-0f83-8cbb-9a4e-015bf2da300a/Monarch_Performance_Disclosure.pdf Host: Andy Farquharson — https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ a better monday: https://abettermonday.me Disclosure: Any performance figures referenced are subject to Monarch's full performance disclosure, linked above.

    Alternative Exit #66 | Returns & Purpose on a Level Playing Field | Monarch's Katie & Michael

  6. May 21

    Alternative Exit #65 | He Bought a 94 yo Business, Then Gave It to the Team | Bob Whalen, HB Global

    Bob Whalen walked into a 94-year-old, third-generation family business in 2008 and, within two years, transitioned it to a 100% ESOP. What started as a way to make the deal more tax-efficient became his professional purpose. Fifteen years on, HB Global has grown almost 10x, completed close to 20 acquisitions, and built over $110M of value sitting inside its employee owners' accounts. In this episode, Bob shares why he runs the business like a sports team rather than a family, how he protects culture through every acquisition, and why the person who "gave away" the most is the happiest about it. A genuinely different take on ownership, legacy and shared success. Chapters 00:53 — Meet Bob Whalen and HB Global02:35 — Walking into a 94-year-old family business05:50 — Where ESOPs and ETA meet07:39 — Run it like a sports team, not a family10:50 — Bringing culture to life across the group13:26 — Why the "secret sauce" isn't really a secret14:44 — Where the people-first conviction came from19:58 — Spotting cultural fit in an acquisition22:58 — Branding inward: communicating mission daily26:38 — Keeping score and the great game of business28:10 — The one number: return on capital31:02 — Do frontline workers value ownership?33:37 — Why business schools don't teach ESOPs38:19 — Fast round42:11 — Advice for owners on the fenceKey Takeaways ✅ An ESOP can start as a practical, tax-efficient deal structure and grow into a genuine cultural strategy.💡 Run the business like a sports team: everyone does their job, and everyone shares what they create.🌟 Culture is what you do, not what you write down. The CEO has to live it first.🎧 Most acquisitions could fetch a higher price elsewhere. Owners choose HB Global to protect their people.✅ Frontline technicians hold rare, valuable skills. The first job is helping them value themselves.💡 Selling for top dollar often leaves owners unhappy. Decide what legacy you actually want.Notable Quotes "It's my Christmas every year when our ESOP values come out. I get a spreadsheet with every single person's value.""If there was anybody who'd be upset about doing the ESOP, it would be me. And I couldn't be more thrilled.""It was a financial solution that started, but it gave me my purpose."Links Bob Whalen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-whalen-4023a21b/HB Global: https://hb-global.comBook — Beyond Your Ownership by Bob Whalen and Jamie DykstraHost, Andy Farquharson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    Alternative Exit #65 | He Bought a 94 yo Business, Then Gave It to the Team | Bob Whalen, HB Global

  7. Apr 30

    Alternative Exit #64 | 400+ Transitions Later: What Actually Makes EO Work

    After 400+ employee ownership transitions and over two decades in the space, Ewan Hall has seen what works and what doesn't. In this episode, he walks Andy through the practical realities of EOT transitions in the UK — from the tax recalibration last October to the four pillars every successful transition needs (deal, ownership, governance, culture). Ewan unpacks the concept of "enough" that unlocks seller psychology, the underused role of debt finance, and a deceptively simple framework — informed, consult, consent — that resolves who decides what after the founder steps back. Honest, experienced, and refreshingly free of the EO hype. Chapters (00:00) Welcome and introduction(02:26) The story behind 20+ years in EO(05:53) Why employee owned firms still face succession challenges(07:42) Separating ownership succession from leadership succession(11:17) Why owners choose EO over a trade sale(13:21) The concept of "enough" and the magic number(18:00) The 25% rule: how long it really takes to fund a 100% disposal(22:21) The 2014 tax relief and mainstreaming EO(23:41) October 2024: from 100% to 50% CGT discount(28:34) The missed opportunity around debt finance(32:26) Refinancing the back-end of founder debt(33:26) The four pillars: deal, ownership, governance, culture(37:04) Informed, consult, consent in practice(40:31) Day, year, extremis: stress-testing your structure(42:27) Fast round: leaders, resources, advice(45:00) Where to find EwanKey takeaways 💡 Ownership succession and leadership succession run on different timelines — don't conflate them.✅ The conversation about "enough" unlocks every other decision a founder needs to make.🎯 Profit multiple + 25% = roughly the years it'll take to fund a 100% disposal at flat profits.🌟 The four pillars of a healthy transition: the deal, ownership, governance, and culture.💷 EOT tax relief at 50% still saves around 12% — no other UK exit comes close.⚖️ Stress-test your structure across three scenarios: a day, a year, and an emergency.Notable quotes "You don't just stick shares in a trust and call it a day.""Once people get past the concept of enough, they unclench a bit.""I want to be able to drive past this workplace and feel all right about it."Links 🔗 Ewan Hall on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ewan-hall-3a7b902a/🔗 Baxendale Employee Ownership: https://baxendaleownership.co.uk🔗 Employee Ownership Association: https://employeeownership.co.uk🔗 Host Andy Farquharson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/🔗 a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    Alternative Exit #64 | 400+ Transitions Later: What Actually Makes EO Work

  8. Apr 23

    Alternative Exit #63 | No Silver Bullet, But There Is Magic in EO | Joseph Cureton, Sarvis Health

    Joseph Cureton spent nearly a decade building Obran Cooperative, the first worker-owned cooperative holding company in the US. In 2025, he exited and started something new. Sarvis Health is an ESOP-based roll-up of home care agencies, wrapped in a proprietary AI-enabled operating platform called Sarvis OS. In this conversation, Joseph breaks down why he shifted from co-op to ESOP, what he learned about the "magic" (and the myths) of shared ownership, and why home care is uniquely suited to employee ownership. He also shares how Sarvis is using AI to fix broken workflows, why design partners matter, and the one question every fence-sitting owner should ask themselves. Chapters: (00:00) Welcome and introducing Joseph(01:39) From Obran to Sarvis: co-op to ESOP(07:10) No silver bullet — operations come first(09:26) The real magic of employee ownership(11:05) Home care and the Silver Tsunami(13:29) Going head-to-head with private equity(16:32) Rituals, open-book management, alignment(23:50) Sarvis OS: the three-part rollout(30:53) Investing in tech and people together(34:00) The design partner model(39:30) A five-year vision(43:50) Fast round(46:10) A question for owners on the fenceKey Takeaways: 💡 Employee ownership isn't a magic bullet. You still have to be a great operator every day.✅ The magic is a team of "disagreeable givers" aligned around shared outcomes.🌟 Home care fits employee ownership because workers already care deeply about their communities.🎧 A single AI-enabled platform turns ownership engagement into action.✅ Start with the detractors. The loudest critics make the best design partners.Notable Quotes: "There's no silver bullet. And there is some magic.""Clarity is kindness.""In five or ten years, what option would you regret not taking?"Links & Resources: Joseph Cureton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephbuilds/Sarvis Health: https://sarvishealth.comObran Cooperative: https://www.obran.coopThe Companies We Keep by John AbramsCollective Courage by Jessica Gordon NembhardHost Andy Farquharson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/a better monday: https://abettermonday.me

    Alternative Exit #63 | No Silver Bullet, But There Is Magic in EO | Joseph Cureton, Sarvis Health
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Ratings & Reviews

5
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About

Alternative Exit is a dedicated to educating small business owners about the possibilities, benefits, and challenges of transitioning to an employee ownership model. There are over 200m SMEs with an owner who will be retiring in the next 10 years, many of which will never find a buyer for their business, forcing them to close their doors.  There is an alternative. This show will explore various the different forms of employee ownership and best practices for successful transitions. Each episode features interviews with experts in employee ownership, business owners who have made the transition, and consultants who facilitate these changes.

Information

  • Creator
    Andy
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    71
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Andy
  • Show Website
    Alternative Exit