Two Plus Two: The Swinger Podcast for Couples

Zack and Josie
  • 4.3 (141)
  • Relationships
  • Updated Weekly

Two Plus Two is a space for the conversations most couples aren’t having… but probably should be. Zack and Josie explore connection, intimacy, and relationships through honest, vulnerable discussions. Through their own reflections and conversations with their guests, they inspire listeners to strengthen their relationships and discover new perspectives on communication, trust, and fulfillment—embracing the idea that deeper connection comes from the conversations most people avoid.

  1. 10h ago

    Ep 78: How to Get Your Wife Into Swinging (Without Getting Divorced)

    What happens when one partner wants to explore the lifestyle and the other is a “hell no!”? In this entertaining and candid conversation, Zack and Josie are joined by Genie and Dr. G to explore a question that hits close to home for many couples: How do you convince your wife to get into the lifestyle? Presented tongue in cheek, the conversation reveals an underlying truth: You can't convince someone to do something they're not ready for. Each couple shares how they discovered the lifestyle, navigated their early experiences, and learned to balance two unique individuals within the same relationship. But what happens when a wife hears the suggestion and wonders, "Am I not enough?" Josie and Genie share their initial reactions to their husbands' proposals, offering insight into the emotions and concerns that can arise when one partner introduces the idea. The conversation explores both the female and male perspectives, along with practical advice for navigating insecurities, communication, and the desire to explore something new together. As the discussion evolves, the couples explore the importance of respecting the pace of the more conservative partner, recognizing individual differences, and understanding that a couple's journey doesn't have to look like anyone else's. Josie and Genie also reflect on the personal growth they've experienced through entering and navigating the lifestyle. Entertaining, informative, and filled with honest insights, this episode offers couples a valuable opportunity to reflect on their relationship, expectations, and readiness before taking the next step into the lifestyle. Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (00:00:00) I’m as shocked as you are! (00:08:14) Life got busy and we moved on (00:11:35) Am I enough? (00:15:11) Gotta have it! (00:18:43) Plant the seed  (00:25:48) Water the seed (00:30:16) Transparency and respect for each other (00:34:55) Things evolved organically at my own pace (00:38:07) We did it our way (00:41:07) Setting and honoring very clear boundaries (00:44:15) Selfish or selfless…it’s a balance (00:47:10) Be authentically yourself and take the journey together (00:48:49) Slow and steady (00:52:33) Ripping the bandaid off (00:54:30) You can’t convince her to do anything…let her be in control (00:57:54) Take her on the journey with you and discover things together (01:00:48) You can expect to grow personally and in your relationship (01:02:07) I am not the same person I was when we started (01:04:19) This episode can be a tool…listen with your partner We'd love to connect with you! Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle! INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie. Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at: ⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com ⁠ Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves! https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/ Resources Book Your Trip to Temptation or Desire ⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠ Dr. G & Genie's Groups Arizona Fantasy Club https://arizonafantasyclub.com/ Hot Wife Community https://hotwifecommunity.com/ Genie Wishes https://www.geniewishesevents.com/

  2. Sep 9

    Ep 77: You’re Not Wrong… and Neither Is She: Intimacy and Sex in the Lifestyle

    Zack and Josie are on their own again as they tackle a listener’s difficult question about navigating the lifestyle when partners have very different ideas about intimacy, emotions, and what feels comfortable. Only three months into the lifestyle, the listener and his wife have formed a strong four-way connection with another couple. He wants to develop a close, sensual relationship with the other wife while still viewing and desiring the relationship as something shared between the two couples. His wife, however, feels insecure about the depth of that connection and has made it clear that she doesn’t want to develop feelings for people they have sex with. What initially sounds like a disagreement about what is—or isn’t—too intimate quickly becomes a much deeper conversation about insecurity, fear, shame, vulnerability, and the need to feel safe with the person who is supposed to be your partner through it all. Zack and Josie explore the difference between making love and just f*****g, how couples can move through the lifestyle together when their boundaries don't perfectly align, and why communication is foundational to sexual exploration and liberation. They also discuss how partners can create the kind of safety that makes difficult conversations possible, how to support rather than invalidate each other’s feelings, and why being fully supported by a partner can make all the difference when confronting the internal struggles that come with exploring outside the traditional boundaries of a relationship. True to form, Zack and Josie use thought experiments to examine the situation from different perspectives and offer their best advice for navigating this—and the many other difficult conversations couples may encounter along their lifestyle journey. Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (00:00:00) A listener’s email (00:03:44) What is considered too intimate? (00:08:05) Making love and f*****g (00:11:07) Moving through the lifestyle as partners (00:14:55) The internal struggle and performance anxiety (00:21:10) Relational vs transactional swinging (00:26:13) Communication in play experiences is key (00:29:10) Let’s talk about sex, Baby (00:32:44) Have the conversations - feeling safe is key (00:37:04) Thought experiments and evolving in the lifestyle (00:42:27) Sexual liberation and total acceptance and support (00:44:34) Labels don’t tell the whole story (00:46:15) Navigating difficult conversations (00:48:18) Closing thoughts and advice We'd love to connect with you! Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle! INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie. Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at: ⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com ⁠ Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves! https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/ Resources Book a Cruise or Your Trip to Temptation or Desire https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/

  3. Aug 26

    Ep 76: Naughty N’awlins: Five Days of Play, Pleasure & Pushing the Limits

    For the first time, Zack and Josie recorded an episode of Two Plus Two entirely on their own—and they had plenty to talk about. They share the highs and lows of their first Naughty N’awlins experience, an event they had heard only positive things about. In a little nod to their previous conversation about taboo, they stepped well outside their normal routine and had five back-to-back play experiences, playing every day they were there. They discuss the positives and negatives of doing that and share some unexpected consequences. They each weigh in on whether they would repeat five days of consecutive play and what they may do differently. They attended workshops for the first time and experienced a dungeon tasting, where Josie was introduced to e-stim and the violet wand. She enjoyed the experience enough to purchase a violet wand of her own from The Dungeon Store. And then there’s the secret Brad repeatedly teased them about: How can you tell whether a play session is going to be good before you actually play? Zack and Josie finally reveal what they believe is the answer and discuss whether they would still play if they suspected the experience might not be great—or simply walk away and have sex with each other instead. Josie also reveals a shift in her mindset from “give me reasons to say yes” to “give me reasons to say no,” leading to a conversation about how their approach to play has evolved. They briefly share their experience at Colette and invite listeners to weigh in on whether they prioritize quantity or quality in their own experiences by joining the conversation on Peaches’nCream. Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (00:00:00) Overall vibe of Naughty N’awlins and host hotels (00:06:27) Our first ever workshops (00:14:42) Dungeon tasting and the violet wand (00:19:50) We made connections prior to the event (00:26:31) We were naughty at Naughty (00:28:04) Our experience of Colette (00:31:56) Back to back play experiences (00:37:58) Quality over quantity (00:40:28) The negatives at Naughty (00:42:51) The health related negatives after Naughty (00:47:27) What we’ll do differently next time We'd love to connect with you! Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle! INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie. Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at: ⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com⁠ Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves! https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/ Resources Book a Cruise or Your Trip to Temptation or Desire https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/ The Dungeon Store www.TheDungeonStore.com

  4. Aug 12

    Ep 75: Taboo: Exploring the Lifestyle Despite Society’s Rules

    Genie and Dr. G join Zack and Josie for their first appearance on the podcast. For more than a decade, they have created lifestyle events designed to give couples—and eventually singles—a safe, discreet and inclusive place to explore their sexuality. Through Genie Wishes, Arizona Fantasy Club and their fastest-growing group, Hot Wife Community, consent and respect are at the heart of everything they do. The conversation explores what it means to participate in a lifestyle that society often considers taboo. Genie and Dr. G share how their upbringings and societal expectations shaped their views about sex, relationships, guilt and shame—and how challenging those expectations has led to personal growth. They also discuss vulnerability between partners, creating a safe space for difficult conversations, making propositions without creating pressure, and how to handle a “no” with love and respect. It’s an honest conversation about challenging the rules people are taught to follow, embracing vulnerability, and discovering what can happen when couples give themselves permission to explore the parts of their sexuality that society tells them should remain taboo. Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (00:00:00) Safety, consent and discretion are the cornerstones (00:10:54) Genie Wishes and Arizona Fantasy Club (00:12:33) Hot Wife Community  (00:17:08) Reframing sex and the Vegas mindset (00:20:33) Societal and familial expectations and conditioning (00:27:31) Gay clubs are great for dancing (00:33:28) Dr. G’s upbringing and what other people think (00:36:54) Being vulnerable and creating a safe space for taboo subjects (00:41:27) Navigating propositions and conversations with respect (00:45:04) Reactions, responses and disappointment (00:47:44) Stigma of bisexuality for both men and women (00:55:14) Shame and guilt (01:00:44) Processing negative experiences (01:05:02) Internal and external struggles We'd love to connect with you! Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle! INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie. Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at: ⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com ⁠ Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves! https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/ Resources Book Your Trip to Temptation or Desire https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/ Dr. G & Genie's Groups Arizona Fantasy Club https://arizonafantasyclub.com/ Hot Wife Community https://hotwifecommunity.com/ Genie Wishes https://www.geniewishesevents.com/

  5. Jul 29

    Ep 74: A Unicorn Finds Her Match: Community, Chemistry & Commitment

    Zack and Josie welcome new guests Rick and Gwen for a conversation about their unique journey navigating the lifestyle together. After meeting a little over a year ago, the two began building their connection while exploring how the lifestyle would fit into their relationship. When they met, Gwen was already a unicorn in the lifestyle, while Rick brought extensive experience as a pleasure Dom. Together, they have had to navigate the changes that came with shifting from individual experiences to exploring as a couple. They share the growing pains, lessons learned, and how they continue to support each other’s interests and desires. Gwen talks about how she discovered the lifestyle and what keeps her drawn to it, while Rick shares his journey of finding a place for his BDSM interests with partners who genuinely enjoy those dynamics. The conversation also dives into the challenges singles often face in the lifestyle, including feelings of loneliness and navigating connections without the built-in support of a partner. Rick and Gwen discuss the differences between solo experiences and couple experiences, including the unique bond couples can build when they reconnect and share their adventures together. This episode explores connection, communication, evolving roles, and the ways relationships can grow when partners embrace each other’s authentic selves. Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (00:00:00) Gwen’s journey into the lifestyle as a unicorn (00:05:52) Rick’s BDSM journey (00:09:55) BDSM doesn’t interest Gwen, but she respects his desire for it (00:12:11) The pleasure Dom (00:18:00) Rick and Gwen met on Feeld (00:22:42) Building a relationship while navigating the lifestyle together (00:26:57) Perceptions and expectations  (00:32:25) Prejudice, judgment and communication (00:37:24) Adventure, community and connection (00:40:59) The octopus (00:46:50) Parallel play, play dynamics (00:50:42) Navigating feelings and connections (00:55:48) Chemistry, emotional connection and meaningful love (01:00:31) Attraction and communicating interest We'd love to connect with you! Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle! INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie. Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at: ⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com ⁠ Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves! https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/ Resources Book Your Trip to Temptation or Desire https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/ Rick’s Photography Business ​​https://www.instagram.com/polymathphoto Gwen’s Coaching Business https://theopendynamic.com/

  6. Jul 15

    Ep 73: Fairness: Biology, Boundaries & B******t

    Brad and Jenni return to join Zack and Josie for a spirited conversation about one of the most debated concepts in the lifestyle: fairness. From honoring commitments and navigating separate play to managing insecurities and expectations, the couples explore how they define fairness within their own relationships—and whether it even belongs in the equation. Along the way, they tackle questions about attraction, opportunity, biology, and the unique challenges that arise when partners don't always experience the lifestyle in the same way. As differing perspectives collide, the discussion becomes surprisingly candid, occasionally heated, and ultimately revealing. Rather than offering easy answers, the conversation highlights how every couple must find their own balance between fairness, freedom, and connection. It's an honest look at the feelings, assumptions, and relationship dynamics that emerge when couples venture beyond conventional boundaries. Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (00:00:00) Fairness is important to us (00:01:47) Honoring commitments to one another (00:04:32) Playing separately (00:07:14) Playing with a unicorn vs play with female half of a couple (00:09:54) Singles have to go home alone (00:11:42) Men vs women…biology and other things (00:15:28) Making the decision to have a separate play session or not  (00:18:35) Arranging play dates for your partner (00:26:14) Birthday play dates and sharing details of separate play (00:32:28) Fairness isn’t a factor…or is it? (00:38:15) Selecting play partners (00:42:25) Giving and receiving as a couple is hot (00:44:54) Fairness and pacing in play sessions We'd love to connect with you! Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle! INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie. Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at: ⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com ⁠ Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves! https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/ Resources Book Your Trip to Temptation or Desire https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/ Suzie Webster Author Page https://amzn.to/4rXPfOx

  7. Jul 1

    Ep 72: Lifestyle Parties: Chemistry, Connection and Rejection

    Brad and Jenni return to join Zack and Josie for a candid conversation about lifestyle parties, attraction, connection, and the many factors that shape our experiences. The couples explore their different approaches to the lifestyle and how they balance socializing, friendships, sexual chemistry, and play experiences. They discuss the excitement that comes with meeting someone new, the thrill of the chase, and why familiar connections can offer a completely different kind of reward. Along the way, they tackle some of the more challenging aspects of the lifestyle—reading interest, communicating attraction, navigating rejection, and dealing with the uncertainty that comes when another couple suddenly goes quiet. The conversation also examines how intentions can shift before and during an event, depending on everything from chemistry with others to the connection they're feeling with their own partner. From "taking one for the team" to choosing quality connections over simply collecting experiences, this episode offers an honest look at the decisions, assumptions, and conversations that happen behind the scenes at lifestyle parties. Whether you're drawn to the excitement of new possibilities or the comfort of established connections, you'll likely find yourself somewhere in this discussion. Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (00:00:00) We never go into a party expecting to play (00:02:14) Undiscovered possibilities (00:04:34) Intentions can change based on many factors (00:07:05) No expectations (00:09:10) We always go with the intention to play if we make a connection (00:11:11) Shiny new vs tried and true (00:12:07) Rejection sucks (00:14:58) It may have nothing to do with you and you may never know ‘why’ (00:19:52) Processing rejection (00:22:26) There are lots of reasons why people may cancel (00:27:28) The chase vs familiarity (00:29:45) Energy can change in subsequent experiences with the same people (00:31:58) Would you rather… (00:33:17) The lifestyle draws people who want new experiences (00:35:34) Taking one for the team (00:39:55) Sex with other people is like a box of chocolates (00:43:24) Friendships vs play partners (00:45:50) Lifestyle friends you don’t play with (00:48:12) Jenni’s I Love Cliterature book club (00:49:43) An interesting question to consider (00:54:44) Boundaries…is kissing okay? (00:57:41) Discernment in choosing play experiences We'd love to connect with you! Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle! INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie. Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at: ⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com ⁠ Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves! https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/ Resources Book Your Trip to Temptation or Desire https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/ Suzie Webster Author Page https://amzn.to/4rXPfOx

  8. Jun 17

    Ep 71: House Party Vibes: Interest, Intentions & Invitations

    Brad and Jenni return to join Zack and Josie for a candid conversation about a recent lifestyle party they all attended. What started as a discussion about the event quickly evolved into a deeper look at how different couples navigate attraction, communicate interest, and approach new connections. The couples compare their personal styles, discussing everything from subtle signals and direct communication to common mistakes people make when trying to express interest. They share what they've found works best, what doesn't, and why clear communication remains one of the most important skills in the lifestyle. Along the way, Zack and Josie reflect on how much they've grown since their early days in the lifestyle. They discuss becoming more confident, assertive, and intentional while still prioritizing respect, consent, and mutual enthusiasm. Zack explains why he prefers to wait for clear signs of interest before making a move and how that approach has shaped many of their experiences. The conversation also explores some of the unique challenges faced by newer couples who are still building confidence and learning how to communicate their desires, boundaries, and expectations. Although the episode was intended to feature all four perspectives equally, Zack and Josie ended up doing most of the talking as they unpacked two memorable play experiences from the party. They walk listeners through how each connection developed, the communication that happened along the way, and the lessons they took from both encounters. Whether you're new to the lifestyle or have years of experience, this episode offers an honest look at attraction, communication, confidence, and the social dynamics that can make or break a great party experience. Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (00:00:00) Party prep (00:02:51) Intentions at parties (00:04:45) Confusing our men (00:05:47) Hit list (00:07:51) Acting thirsty repels people (00:08:34) Pleasantly persistent (00:17:37) The proposition (00:20:51) The play experience (00:24:14) Two directors and two actors (00:31:21) We let it fizzle and made our escape (00:35:38) Communication is so important (00:39:29) We went another round (00:44:18) That’s a ‘no’ (00:46:48) I want her to take the lead (00:52:06) Our threesome within a moresome (00:58:17) The night was interesting (01:01:08) To be continued… We'd love to connect with you! Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle! INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie. Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at: ⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com ⁠ Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves! https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/ Resources Hoover Maneuver Reference - Episode 17 at 47:00 https://bit.ly/3QlR6jC Book Your Trip to Temptation or Desire https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/ Suzie Webster Author Page https://amzn.to/4rXPfOx

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4.3
out of 5
141 Ratings

About

Two Plus Two is a space for the conversations most couples aren’t having… but probably should be. Zack and Josie explore connection, intimacy, and relationships through honest, vulnerable discussions. Through their own reflections and conversations with their guests, they inspire listeners to strengthen their relationships and discover new perspectives on communication, trust, and fulfillment—embracing the idea that deeper connection comes from the conversations most people avoid.

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