The Channel Surfers

John McCabe & Jeff Lennon
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At The Channel Surfers, our mission is to navigate the dynamic world of channel sales with insight, expertise, and a touch of humor. Hosted by John McCabe and Jeff Lennon, we dive into strategies, share real-life stories, and explore the evolving partnerships that drive success in today’s competitive landscape. Whether you’re a seasoned pro or new to the channel, we’re here to help you ride the waves to greater growth and stronger alliances

  1. The Channel Surfers - Episode 61 - "Agentic AI in the Partner Motion — Beyond Tools, Into Autonomous Action"

    5D AGO

    The Channel Surfers - Episode 61 - "Agentic AI in the Partner Motion — Beyond Tools, Into Autonomous Action"

    In this episode of "The Channel Surfers," hosts John McCabe and Jeff Lennon ride the fast-moving wave of "agentic AI" and its growing impact on the partner motion. With their signature conversational and insightful style, they explore the shift from AI that assists to AI that acts, helping listeners navigate what this change means for channel professionals without getting "crushed along the way." Key Discussion Points Defining Agentic AI The hosts begin by clarifying the distinction between the AI most people are familiar with and this new evolution. - Assistive AI: This is the AI that helps you do things faster, such as drafting emails, summarizing documents, or offering suggestions. It assists with tasks. - Agentic AI: This is a more autonomous form of AI designed to take action and execute entire workflows without constant human prompting. It can manage a schedule, evaluate deal registrations in a PRM, or run complex follow-up sequences. As John puts it, it's a shift from "AI assists to AI does or acts." How Agentic AI is Impacting the Partner Motion John and Jeff discuss how agentic AI is not about replacing people but about making them more efficient and effective, allowing them to do "more with less." - Repetitive Task Automation: Mundane but critical tasks like email sequencing for partner reps, organizing schedules, and managing digital files can be automated, freeing up channel managers to focus on strategy and relationships. - Enhanced Partner Management: AI can help expand the number of partners a single manager can effectively handle. Where a manager might have been capped at 5-7 focus partners, AI could enable them to effectively manage 12-15 by automating follow-through and ensuring consistent execution. - Persistent, Intelligent Follow-Up: Unlike humans who can be deterred by rejection, an AI agent will persistently follow up on leads or communications. Agentic AI can even augment and tweak its approach to remain effective without being overly pushy.

    36 min
  2. The Channel Surfers - Episode 60 - "A Founder's Guide to a 100% Channel Motion with Anders Norremo"

    MAY 5

    The Channel Surfers - Episode 60 - "A Founder's Guide to a 100% Channel Motion with Anders Norremo"

    In this episode of "Channel Surfers," hosts John McCabe and Jeff Lennon are joined by Anders Noremo, founder of Third Party Trust (now acquired by Bitsight), to discuss his experience building a successful, 100% channel-focused sales model. In a candid, conversational discussion, Anders shares the strategic imperative and practical application of going all-in on channel, offering a masterclass in executive leadership. Speaking from his direct experience as a founder who built and sold his company, Anders shares the lessons he learned in leveraging partnerships to achieve explosive growth, contrasting it with the traditional direct sales approach. John, who worked with Anders, provides corroborating details and personal anecdotes. Key Discussion Points The Shift from Direct Sales to Channel Focus Anders recounts his early days as a founder in Chicago, where he started Third Party Trust to address the growing problem of third-party risk. Initially, he handled all sales himself and later struggled with hiring direct sellers. He found traditional SaaS sales tactics like cold calling and cold emailing to be inefficient, often starting potential relationships on a negative note. This frustration led him to seek alternative go-to-market strategies, which naturally guided him toward the channel. The Risks and Rewards of a Channel-First Model The group discusses the high-stakes decision to pivot to a 100% channel-focused business. - The Risk: Anders acknowledges that committing fully to a channel model involves significant risks, primarily the investment of time and focus. The biggest danger for a startup, where time is the most precious resource, is picking the wrong partner and wasting valuable months. Acknowledging John's point about risk, Anders adds that the move might not work, but the learnings from the attempt are invaluable. - The Reward: The rewards, however, can be immense. John emphasizes the principle of "you give, you get," explaining that being flexible and easy to work with builds trust and respect with partners, which in turn brings more deals. The "Unlock" Moments with Key Partners - Optiv: The turning point came around 2019 when Anders approached a major partner, Optiv. Instead of asking them to resell his product, he offered a novel proposition: he had customers who needed his solution as a managed service, and he wanted Optiv to be that managed service arm. While training the Optiv team, they were so impressed by the platform's ease of use and automation that they migrated all their existing accounts to his solution. This became his "big unlock" and created a powerful new sales angle: enabling Optiv's reps to sell their own company's managed service, powered by his technology. - GuidePoint: A similar "lucky" break occurred with GuidePoint. After a customer expressed a strong preference for Third Party Trust, a key player at GuidePoint reached out to Anders to resell the solution. To solidify the partnership and help GuidePoint stand up its own Third-Party Risk Management (TPRM) practice, Anders made a strategic move: he contracted GuidePoint to provide services for one of his own customers, effectively becoming GuidePoint's first customer for their new practice. He admits to "going negative" on this first deal, paying for it himself to prove his strategic, long-term commitment. Driving Adoption: The 100% Channel Mandate A pivotal moment was the decision to go 100% channel. Anders told his sales team they were no longer allowed to take deals direct; any direct deal would result in only 50% quota relief and 50% commission. - Initial Reaction: There was skepticism and concern from the sales team. - The Result: No deal ever went direct again. It forced a behavioral shift where reps became strategic. Since they had to use a partner, they chose partners who could bring them new deals and add real value. Within six months, strategic deal registrations from partners "went straight up to the right,"

    42 min
  3. The Channel Surfers - Episode 59 - "Partner-Sourced Pipeline: Myth vs. Reality"

    APR 28

    The Channel Surfers - Episode 59 - "Partner-Sourced Pipeline: Myth vs. Reality"

    Partner-sourced attribution is one of the most debated and least trustworthy metrics in the channel. This episode builds the clean three-bucket model — sourced, influenced, accelerated — and gives you a way to get sales leadership to agree on it.

    38 min
  4. The Channel Surfers - Episode 58 - "From Ecosystems to AI with David Levine"

    APR 21

    The Channel Surfers - Episode 58 - "From Ecosystems to AI with David Levine"

    In this week's episode of "Channel Surfers," John McCabe and Jeff Lennon are joined by guest David "Dave" Levine, a technical sales executive, cybersecurity expert, and author of the new book, "Navigating the AI Wave." The wide-ranging discussion flows from the evolution of the IT channel and cybersecurity to the transformative impact of Artificial Intelligence on the workforce, demystifying common fears and offering practical advice. David, a long-time friend and former colleague of John's, is introduced as a "master of cyber" and a key voice in understanding the current tech landscape. Key Discussion Points The Evolving Tech Channel: From Linear to Ecosystem David Levine explains his history in the IT channel, which began with technical enablement. He emphasizes that the channel is the crucial path for manufacturers to reach customers, and his role has always been to translate complex technology into clear business value. The conversation highlights the shift from a linear channel model to a complex "ecosystem." In this new paradigm, trusted partners with deep technical expertise, especially in cybersecurity, are succeeding. A key point is that the security perimeter has moved from the network to identity, particularly with cloud migration, making a holistic understanding of identity critical for partners to deliver real value. AI in the SOC: Augmentation, Not Replacement The discussion pivots to the role of AI in the Security Operations Center (SOC), a central theme in David's book. - "Gap Filler" for Alert Fatigue: David views AI-driven SOC automation not as a replacement for humans but as a powerful "gap filler." He notes that SOC analysts suffer from high turnover and "alert fatigue," only managing to review 8-10% of incoming alerts. - Automating Tier 1: AI is perfectly suited to handle the high-volume, low-level Tier 1 tasks of processing alerts, filtering noise, and escalating only critical incidents. This frees up human analysts for more valuable Tier 2 and Tier 3 work where critical thinking is essential. - The "Human in the Loop": David stresses that while AI processes data incredibly fast, it cannot yet think like a human. A major concern is the risk of over-permissioning AI agents. He warns against a "set it and forget it" approach, emphasizing that humans must oversee AI operations to prevent it from becoming a hindrance. - Proactive Training: Likening cybersecurity preparedness to a golfer practicing for the Masters, David advocates for using AI-automated "tabletop exercises." These simulations allow security teams to practice and refine their response plans, ensuring they are prepared when a real incident occurs. AI in the Workplace: Role Transformation, Not Annihilation The conversation expands to AI's broader impact on the job market, addressing common fears. - AI for Routine Tasks: David's central thesis is that AI is here to handle routine, repetitive tasks, while humans are needed for context, judgment, and strategic thinking. He draws parallels to past technological shifts, like when human "computers" at NASA began overseeing IBM machines or when ATMs transformed, but did not eliminate, the role of bank tellers. - "AI Washing" Layoffs: John raises the issue of recent mass layoffs attributed to AI. David introduces the term "AI washing," suggesting companies are using AI as a convenient justification for pre-planned cost-cutting. He argues that current AI productivity gains (around 12-15%) are too modest to justify replacing tens of thousands of jobs. The group agrees that human elements in sales, customer service, and development remain irreplaceable because AI lacks genuine understanding, emotion, and creativity. - Consolidation of Roles: The biggest misconception is "AI is coming for my job." The speakers clarify that while specific tasks are being automated, roles are consolidating and becoming more strategic. AI handles the "what," while humans handle

    40 min
  5. The Channel Surfers - Episode 57 - "Partner Co-Marketing, A Better Bang for Your Buck "

    APR 14

    The Channel Surfers - Episode 57 - "Partner Co-Marketing, A Better Bang for Your Buck "

    The Channel Surfers: Why Co-Marketing is the Best Bang for Your Buck In this episode of "The Channel Surfers," co-hosts John McCabe and Jeff Lennon dive deep into the strategic importance and practical execution of co-marketing with channel partners. In a conversational and collaborative style, they argue that co-marketing is a more effective and cost-efficient strategy for brand awareness and lead generation than traditional social media or Google ads. The hosts position a well-executed co-marketing plan as a critical precursor to successful co-selling, laying the groundwork for sales by building brand awareness and validating the joint value proposition. Jeff describes a previous episode with Will Taylor as a "watershed moment" that re-contextualized his understanding of go-to-market strategies with partners. He realized that many successful past activities—like creating joint solution briefs and co-mingling at events—were all forms of co-marketing. Key Discussion Points - Co-Marketing vs. Traditional Ads: John opens by questioning the ROI of spending marketing budgets on LinkedIn or Google ads. He posits that the "best bang for your buck" for any channel program is a robust co-marketing plan with strategic partners, as it allows for direct promotion within a partner's ecosystem, tapping into an established and relevant audience. - The Bridge to Co-Selling: The hosts emphasize that co-marketing is the most important first step in a partnership. It is a vital intermediate step that helps validate messaging, build joint assets, and align with a target audience before ever engaging in a formal co-selling motion. It paves the road for better conversations by preventing co-selling efforts from falling on deaf ears. - The Joint Value Proposition: Effective co-marketing is built on the "better together" concept—the idea that two companies' combined solutions are greater than the sum of their parts. Jeff describes co-marketing as a "litmus test" for this joint value proposition, citing the example of Impartner's integration with Salesforce and HubSpot to solve specific market problems without competing directly. - A Structured Strategy: Jeff stresses that co-marketing isn't just a series of random activities; it must be a deliberate, thought-out strategy designed to drive meaningful business outcomes. He uses the real estate mantra "location, location, location" as an analogy for the importance of "plan, plan, and execute" in co-marketing. - Planning and Rules of Engagement: John emphasizes the need for clear rules of engagement, especially ensuring partner reps are involved from the beginning of an account interaction. This plan should span a minimum of 90 to 120 days and include pre-planning, execution, and crucial post-activity follow-up to analyze results. Bi-weekly touchpoints are recommended to stay on track. - Organizational Alignment: While a dedicated partner marketing team is ideal, it's not a deal-breaker. Channel managers should work closely with the general marketing department, as their goals are aligned: generating leads and getting "eyeballs on the product." The goal is to provide partners with lead-gen materials to make selling easier. - The Role of Events: Events are highlighted as perfect "co-marketing anchors." The work, however, spans a full timeline: - Pre-Event (30-60+ days): A "pre-gaming" phase for planning, creating joint assets, and initiating campaigns to build momentum. - During the Event: A period of active co-marketing and execution, including tracking interactions and leads. - Post-Event (60-120+ days): The effort continues with a structured follow-up plan to "breathe and push" the joint solution message and convert interest into opportunities. An immediate post-event debrief is crucial. - Capturing Partner Mindshare: Gaining partner mindshare is critical. John shares a personal anecdote from his time with CDW, where he created simple mouse pads with logos and a specific deal registration code.

    36 min
  6. The Channel Surfers - Episode 56 - "From RSA to Revenue — Turning Event Energy into Pipeline"

    APR 7

    The Channel Surfers - Episode 56 - "From RSA to Revenue — Turning Event Energy into Pipeline"

    John McCabe and Jeff Lennon break down how channel leaders can turn RSA Conference momentum into real pipeline and partner-driven revenue. With a practical, no-nonsense approach (and a few laughs along the way), they outline how to avoid “happy ears” and post-event drop-off by focusing on disciplined execution. From pre-event planning to 30-60-90 day follow-up frameworks, the episode delivers clear guidance on segmenting leads, prioritizing opportunities, aligning partners, and driving measurable outcomes. Featuring sponsor XTRM, the conversation reinforces a core theme: activity doesn’t equal achievement—pipeline does. Visit XTRM at https://xtrm.com/requestInfo/?utm_source=channel_surfers&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=partner_referral

    37 min
  7. The Channel Surfers - Episode 55 - "Move AI from hype to operating leverage inside channel programs"

    MAR 17

    The Channel Surfers - Episode 55 - "Move AI from hype to operating leverage inside channel programs"

    John and Jeff deliver a warm, candid, and often humorous conversation that is a pragmatic exploration of AI for channel leaders. Across three intertwined themes—AI literacy and value, partner enablement and forecasting, and governance and guardrails—they share first-hand tactics, tool stacks, and cautionary notes for making AI both useful and safe in day-to-day channel operations. Major Takeaways - AI is not a threat if you embrace it intentionally—avoidance is the bigger risk. - Start with literacy: understand what AI can do in your context before adopting many tools. - Use guardrails: apply the Three Ps (People, Permissions, Privacy) to manage risk and value. - Prioritize clarity: focus AI on signal amplification and clarity to speed decisions and align teams. - Don’t drown in tooling: minimize POCs, assign ownership, and pick solutions that fit your workflows. - Operationalize channel fundamentals: partner communication, QBR tracking, and day-to-day execution. - Forecast rigor: track partner and customer signals, stage progress, proof points, and multi-threading. - Make post-meeting work automatic: AI note-takers for action items, deliverables, next steps, and sentiment.

    33 min
  8. The Channel Surfers - Episode 54 - "From Partner Chaos to Predictable Ecosystem Revenue with Kyle Edmunds"

    MAR 10

    The Channel Surfers - Episode 54 - "From Partner Chaos to Predictable Ecosystem Revenue with Kyle Edmunds"

    In this episode, we look to help listeners stop running “partner programs” like a list and start running the ecosystem like a revenue operating system. Focus on what Kyle is known for: partner reality checks, PartnerOps plus RevOps alignment, clean definitions, and weekly execution cadence. Episode Promise: Most teams do not have a partner problem. They have a systems problem. Messy data, unclear motions, and no operating rhythm. This episode gives a simple playbook to find the truth, focus on what moves deals, and build predictable partner driven revenue. Help listeners stop running “partner programs” like a list and start running the ecosystem like a revenue operating system. Focus on what Kyle is known for: partner reality checks, PartnerOps plus RevOps alignment, clean definitions, and weekly execution cadence. Episode Promise: Most teams do not have a partner problem. They have a systems problem. Messy data, unclear motions, and no operating rhythm. This episode gives a simple playbook to find the truth, focus on what moves deals, and build predictable partner driven revenue.

    37 min
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About

At The Channel Surfers, our mission is to navigate the dynamic world of channel sales with insight, expertise, and a touch of humor. Hosted by John McCabe and Jeff Lennon, we dive into strategies, share real-life stories, and explore the evolving partnerships that drive success in today’s competitive landscape. Whether you’re a seasoned pro or new to the channel, we’re here to help you ride the waves to greater growth and stronger alliances

Information

  • Creator
    John McCabe & Jeff Lennon
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    61
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Show Website
    The Channel Surfers