Imitation Nation

Imitation Nation
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  • True Crime
  • Updated Biweekly

Imitation Nation is a podcast that covers all things counterfeit, hosted by Shabbir Imber Safdar and Sven Bergmann.

  1. Sep 28 ·  Video

    Imitation Nation Podcast No 38 Counterfeit News VIDEO

    In this episode, we explore the latest developments in counterfeit pill presses, vinyl records, and counterfeit products, highlighting law enforcement efforts, legislative updates, and the importance of industry collaboration.   Transcript:   00:00:00:03 - 00:00:23:03 Speaker 1 So in South Carolina, this guy walks into a Dollar General with counterfeit bills like bleached tens that they printed 50s on, and he tries to give them to the cashier to load them on to like an app for like a card. And the cashier looks at them, realizes they're fake, and says, I cannot accept these. And so guess what? 00:00:23:05 - 00:00:25:07 Speaker 1 Guess what? The guy says to the cashier. 00:00:25:08 - 00:00:26:22 Speaker 2 I don't know. 00:00:27:00 - 00:00:30:14 Speaker 1 Can I have those back? 00:00:30:16 - 00:00:43:19 Speaker 1 And the Dollar General cashier, who's probably seen everything because they're a Dollar General cashier, is like, no. And the guy goes to his car and and he's driving to Audie. One of the other employees walks out and takes a picture of the car and the license plate as he. 00:00:43:19 - 00:00:50:14 Speaker 2 Drives away. Yeah, it's not always the brightest bulbs that that do this. That's funny. 00:00:50:15 - 00:00:58:11 Unknown The Imitation Nation podcast covers all things counterfeit, hosted by Shabbir Amber Schaffner of the partnership for Safe Medicines and Sven Bergmann of Venture Global. 00:00:58:16 - 00:01:06:15 Speaker 1 All right, Sven, welcome back to Imitation Nation number 38. And one of my favorite topics is the first story. Guess what that is? 00:01:06:17 - 00:01:13:05 Speaker 2 Well, it's normally counterfeit money, but I don't think that's our first story. So peel presses. 00:01:13:07 - 00:01:14:14 Speaker 1 Is all Bill presents. 00:01:14:18 - 00:01:15:20 Speaker 2 So I thought. 00:01:15:22 - 00:01:46:10 Speaker 1 So often when you see someone who a law enforcement agency that has raided and playing this in drug lab, there's often a pill press in that drug lab, right? And sometimes it's made by a company called Elephant Machines. And LFA machines is one of the biggest, well, most well-known makers of pill presses in the world. And three of their longtime employees and executives just got indicted for six counts. 00:01:46:12 - 00:02:07:07 Speaker 1 Wow. As well as the company itself. They haven't been tried yet. They've just been indicted and I think arrested. So all of this, all of these accusations by the Department of Justice are alleged. But basically they said that they were knowingly selling pill presses to people that they knew were going to make counterfeit, controlled substance pills. 00:02:07:08 - 00:02:10:16 Speaker 2 Wow. That is incredible. 00:02:10:18 - 00:02:32:18 Speaker 1 This investigation has been going since 2019, and it was led by DEA Tucson in Arizona, which is also where the current administrator of the DEA, Shari Oz, was. She was a special agent in charge in Arizona of one of the officers. So that is. Yeah, good friend of ours. Good, good friend of of protecting Americans from fake pills. 00:02:32:18 - 00:02:50:18 Speaker 1 She has seen everything. Yeah. So they were due in court last week on the 23rd. I don't remember what I was doing that day, but I was not paying attention to it. And the DOJ has been very clear that they have recovered their machines from clandestine drug labs all over the world. 00:02:50:23 - 00:03:16:06 Speaker 2 Wow. And okay, that's you don't have any speechless often, but because you and I have talked about pill presses a lot. Right. And so normally it's the like, oh, yeah, those are some makers in China. And, you know, they're hard to get. That's the first like executives, which I believe are U.S. executives. So what exactly is the government alleging they did that led to this indictment and arrest? 00:03:16:07 - 00:03:38:15 Speaker 1 So there's not a lot of detail in the complaint. But if you look at it, they talk about that LFA had a do not sell to list and that somehow they can even though they discussed people that should not be sold to, they still sold the machines. They also site. And I'm not sure that this is as on on his easy legal ground. 00:03:38:15 - 00:04:01:11 Speaker 1 But they talk about how the firm a press powder that they sell, which is what you use. You mix in your active ingredient with the powder. And the powder, when it's in, a machine binds together and holds together to make a pill. They talk about how it comes in these colors that just mysteriously and perfectly mimic the counterfeit controlled substances and criminals like to make. 00:04:01:12 - 00:04:28:21 Speaker 1 And we don't know a lot of the details, but the agent who who signed the complaint said that he saw multiple covert, controlled purchases of tablet machines and powder being sold to people that the defendants had talked about or placed on the do not sell to list. So there's clearly more story there, and LFA has not had a chance to respond obviously to this, which they're going to want to do, and they have the right to. 00:04:28:21 - 00:04:31:21 Speaker 1 But that's that's what they accused him of. 00:04:31:23 - 00:04:52:22 Speaker 2 Okay. That that's that's that's really bad. You know, we often talk about that people should do a good know your customer. And that's step one. When you then do know your customer and you put people on a those are not good people do not sell to and then you still sell to them. You're creating your own evidence against yourself. 00:04:52:22 - 00:05:08:12 Speaker 2 So what's really interesting apparently with this, this evidence, the government also what I read has filed a post indictment restraining order. Never heard of that before. What is that? So it turns out. 00:05:08:14 - 00:05:34:17 Speaker 1 That the LFA is owned by a larger conglomerate of companies that are all in this space, and apparently the parent company is having some cash flow issues. They own a lot of other companies like LFA. LFA is just the biggest one, but the government has asserted that they are struggling financially and that they have defaulted on some loans in the range of millions of dollars. 00:05:34:17 - 00:05:50:07 Speaker 1 And I think the government is worried that will sell the assets of LFA, and there will be nothing left to pay the the penalties, forfeiture and restitution that the government thinks they're going to get out of this, out of this case. 00:05:50:09 - 00:06:07:04 Speaker 2 That is that is interesting. Yeah. And, you know, it'll be God, I can't wait to see all the court documents and where it goes. But Deb might have been part of it, where if you're in financial straits and you're like, I need to make money. These people are technically do not sell this. But, you know, money is always green. 00:06:07:04 - 00:06:17:02 Speaker 2 And obviously the powder seller's blue. But okay, so what's your what's your what's your take on the case and who do we who do we think for this. Like who was involved. 00:06:17:04 - 00:06:34:15 Speaker 1 So and I just want to say again that this is just an indictment. And I think there were arrests. But LFA has not had a chance to respond. And they may have a very different take on this, but I don't think that the government would have assembled seven years of evidence and then brought an indictment unless they thought it was pretty solid. 00:06:34:16 - 00:07:03:06 Speaker 1 That's that's not how the feds operate. They like to go in with overwhelming proof of what they have to say. I can't believe that we won't. I don't have any exact proof that that DEA administrator Oz Shari Oz worked on this, but this is the kind of passionate work that I think she would have done. The DOJ specifically cited Homeland Security Task Force in the state called HSF Arizona, which is not an acronym I heard. 00:07:03:07 - 00:07:22:20 Speaker 1 But they did also thank the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area group hideout, which is which is something we're familiar with. And all this comes out of DEA Tucson. So if you are listening and you're an agent and DEA Tucson and you worked on this case, we're not ever going to name you, but we're going to thank you. So so we'll give you our thank you. 00:07:22:20 - 00:07:44:02 Speaker 1 And then the list of agencies that contribute to this is insane. It's the IRS, the ATF, Customs and Border Protection, the FBI, sheriffs and local police. Hilariously, of course, not surprisingly, the Postal Service inspectors. You never want to get on the wrong side of leave it or not, the Bureau of Land Management, which I wasn't expecting to see. 00:07:44:02 - 00:08:00:20 Speaker 1 And of course, finally, the Secret Service and that one I haven't figured out for sure the Secret Service currency and presidential protection. There must be something else here. I'm not aware of that they that they cover, but the Secret Service apparently was thanked as one of the entities. 00:08:00:22 - 00:08:24:22 Speaker 2 Wow. No, that's that's that's fantastic. That was a huge task force. To your point, seven years in the in the making. I think, you know, whenever I talk to folks that that one faster enforcement and go like, oh, you know can can't the government or cops basically just work faster and for folks to really understand. No, it takes a really long time to build a good case, especially a case like this. 00:08:24:22 - 00:08:51:07 Speaker 2 When you go after a US company, you go after top executives. You got to be sure you build in a way, and for them to build it with all the parts in their postal service, making sure we're seeing our shift. IRS obviously money movements put the locals in. Yeah, Secret Service would be interesting, I wonder I wonder what that's about, but kind of pull everybody in, make sure everybody is there with all the all working together, everybody pulling, pulling their authority together. 00:08:51:07 - 00:08:59:18 Speaker 2 So I'm sure we h

  2. Sep 28

    Imitation Nation Podcast No 38 Counterfeit News AUDIO

    In this episode, we explore the latest developments in counterfeit pill presses, vinyl records, and counterfeit products, highlighting law enforcement efforts, legislative updates, and the importance of industry collaboration.   In this episode, we explore the latest developments in counterfeit pill presses, vinyl records, and counterfeit products, highlighting law enforcement efforts, legislative updates, and the importance of industry collaboration.   Transcript:   00:00:00:03 - 00:00:23:03 Speaker 1 So in South Carolina, this guy walks into a Dollar General with counterfeit bills like bleached tens that they printed 50s on, and he tries to give them to the cashier to load them on to like an app for like a card. And the cashier looks at them, realizes they're fake, and says, I cannot accept these. And so guess what? 00:00:23:05 - 00:00:25:07 Speaker 1 Guess what? The guy says to the cashier. 00:00:25:08 - 00:00:26:22 Speaker 2 I don't know. 00:00:27:00 - 00:00:30:14 Speaker 1 Can I have those back? 00:00:30:16 - 00:00:43:19 Speaker 1 And the Dollar General cashier, who's probably seen everything because they're a Dollar General cashier, is like, no. And the guy goes to his car and and he's driving to Audie. One of the other employees walks out and takes a picture of the car and the license plate as he. 00:00:43:19 - 00:00:50:14 Speaker 2 Drives away. Yeah, it's not always the brightest bulbs that that do this. That's funny. 00:00:50:15 - 00:00:58:11 Unknown The Imitation Nation podcast covers all things counterfeit, hosted by Shabbir Amber Schaffner of the partnership for Safe Medicines and Sven Bergmann of Venture Global. 00:00:58:16 - 00:01:06:15 Speaker 1 All right, Sven, welcome back to Imitation Nation number 38. And one of my favorite topics is the first story. Guess what that is? 00:01:06:17 - 00:01:13:05 Speaker 2 Well, it's normally counterfeit money, but I don't think that's our first story. So peel presses. 00:01:13:07 - 00:01:14:14 Speaker 1 Is all Bill presents. 00:01:14:18 - 00:01:15:20 Speaker 2 So I thought. 00:01:15:22 - 00:01:46:10 Speaker 1 So often when you see someone who a law enforcement agency that has raided and playing this in drug lab, there's often a pill press in that drug lab, right? And sometimes it's made by a company called Elephant Machines. And LFA machines is one of the biggest, well, most well-known makers of pill presses in the world. And three of their longtime employees and executives just got indicted for six counts. 00:01:46:12 - 00:02:07:07 Speaker 1 Wow. As well as the company itself. They haven't been tried yet. They've just been indicted and I think arrested. So all of this, all of these accusations by the Department of Justice are alleged. But basically they said that they were knowingly selling pill presses to people that they knew were going to make counterfeit, controlled substance pills. 00:02:07:08 - 00:02:10:16 Speaker 2 Wow. That is incredible. 00:02:10:18 - 00:02:32:18 Speaker 1 This investigation has been going since 2019, and it was led by DEA Tucson in Arizona, which is also where the current administrator of the DEA, Shari Oz, was. She was a special agent in charge in Arizona of one of the officers. So that is. Yeah, good friend of ours. Good, good friend of of protecting Americans from fake pills. 00:02:32:18 - 00:02:50:18 Speaker 1 She has seen everything. Yeah. So they were due in court last week on the 23rd. I don't remember what I was doing that day, but I was not paying attention to it. And the DOJ has been very clear that they have recovered their machines from clandestine drug labs all over the world. 00:02:50:23 - 00:03:16:06 Speaker 2 Wow. And okay, that's you don't have any speechless often, but because you and I have talked about pill presses a lot. Right. And so normally it's the like, oh, yeah, those are some makers in China. And, you know, they're hard to get. That's the first like executives, which I believe are U.S. executives. So what exactly is the government alleging they did that led to this indictment and arrest? 00:03:16:07 - 00:03:38:15 Speaker 1 So there's not a lot of detail in the complaint. But if you look at it, they talk about that LFA had a do not sell to list and that somehow they can even though they discussed people that should not be sold to, they still sold the machines. They also site. And I'm not sure that this is as on on his easy legal ground. 00:03:38:15 - 00:04:01:11 Speaker 1 But they talk about how the firm a press powder that they sell, which is what you use. You mix in your active ingredient with the powder. And the powder, when it's in, a machine binds together and holds together to make a pill. They talk about how it comes in these colors that just mysteriously and perfectly mimic the counterfeit controlled substances and criminals like to make. 00:04:01:12 - 00:04:28:21 Speaker 1 And we don't know a lot of the details, but the agent who who signed the complaint said that he saw multiple covert, controlled purchases of tablet machines and powder being sold to people that the defendants had talked about or placed on the do not sell to list. So there's clearly more story there, and LFA has not had a chance to respond obviously to this, which they're going to want to do, and they have the right to. 00:04:28:21 - 00:04:31:21 Speaker 1 But that's that's what they accused him of. 00:04:31:23 - 00:04:52:22 Speaker 2 Okay. That that's that's that's really bad. You know, we often talk about that people should do a good know your customer. And that's step one. When you then do know your customer and you put people on a those are not good people do not sell to and then you still sell to them. You're creating your own evidence against yourself. 00:04:52:22 - 00:05:08:12 Speaker 2 So what's really interesting apparently with this, this evidence, the government also what I read has filed a post indictment restraining order. Never heard of that before. What is that? So it turns out. 00:05:08:14 - 00:05:34:17 Speaker 1 That the LFA is owned by a larger conglomerate of companies that are all in this space, and apparently the parent company is having some cash flow issues. They own a lot of other companies like LFA. LFA is just the biggest one, but the government has asserted that they are struggling financially and that they have defaulted on some loans in the range of millions of dollars. 00:05:34:17 - 00:05:50:07 Speaker 1 And I think the government is worried that will sell the assets of LFA, and there will be nothing left to pay the the penalties, forfeiture and restitution that the government thinks they're going to get out of this, out of this case. 00:05:50:09 - 00:06:07:04 Speaker 2 That is that is interesting. Yeah. And, you know, it'll be God, I can't wait to see all the court documents and where it goes. But Deb might have been part of it, where if you're in financial straits and you're like, I need to make money. These people are technically do not sell this. But, you know, money is always green. 00:06:07:04 - 00:06:17:02 Speaker 2 And obviously the powder seller's blue. But okay, so what's your what's your what's your take on the case and who do we who do we think for this. Like who was involved. 00:06:17:04 - 00:06:34:15 Speaker 1 So and I just want to say again that this is just an indictment. And I think there were arrests. But LFA has not had a chance to respond. And they may have a very different take on this, but I don't think that the government would have assembled seven years of evidence and then brought an indictment unless they thought it was pretty solid. 00:06:34:16 - 00:07:03:06 Speaker 1 That's that's not how the feds operate. They like to go in with overwhelming proof of what they have to say. I can't believe that we won't. I don't have any exact proof that that DEA administrator Oz Shari Oz worked on this, but this is the kind of passionate work that I think she would have done. The DOJ specifically cited Homeland Security Task Force in the state called HSF Arizona, which is not an acronym I heard. 00:07:03:07 - 00:07:22:20 Speaker 1 But they did also thank the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area group hideout, which is which is something we're familiar with. And all this comes out of DEA Tucson. So if you are listening and you're an agent and DEA Tucson and you worked on this case, we're not ever going to name you, but we're going to thank you. So so we'll give you our thank you. 00:07:22:20 - 00:07:44:02 Speaker 1 And then the list of agencies that contribute to this is insane. It's the IRS, the ATF, Customs and Border Protection, the FBI, sheriffs and local police. Hilariously, of course, not surprisingly, the Postal Service inspectors. You never want to get on the wrong side of leave it or not, the Bureau of Land Management, which I wasn't expecting to see. 00:07:44:02 - 00:08:00:20 Speaker 1 And of course, finally, the Secret Service and that one I haven't figured out for sure the Secret Service currency and presidential protection. There must be something else here. I'm not aware of that they that they cover, but the Secret Service apparently was thanked as one of the entities. 00:08:00:22 - 00:08:24:22 Speaker 2 Wow. No, that's that's that's fantastic. That was a huge task force. To your point, seven years in the in the making. I think, you know, whenever I talk to folks that that one faster enforcement and go like, oh, you know can can't the government or cops basically just work faster and for folks to really understand. No, it takes a really long time to build a good case, especially a case like this. 00:08:24:22 - 00:08:51:07 Speaker 2 When you go after a US company, you go after top executives. You got to be sure you build in a way, and for them to build it with all the parts in their postal service, making sure we're seeing our shift. IRS obviously money movements put the locals in. Yeah, Secret Service would be interesting, I wond

  3. Sep 14 ·  Video

    Imitation Nation Podcast No 37 Counterfeit News Video

    In this episode, Shabbir and Sven explore the complexities of counterfeit products, focusing on airbags and luxury watches. They discuss the challenges faced by online marketplaces in verifying authenticity and the broader implications for safety and brand integrity.   Transcript:   shabbir (00:01) Sven welcome to episode number thirty seven, a prime number I'd point out of Imitation Nation. Sven (00:08) Okay. That that took me a second to think, but yes, that is a prime number. happy Friday. How are you? shabbir (00:13) I'm good. I usually try and Sven (00:14) Okay. shabbir (00:15) pretend that I take Fridays off. I clearly never take Fridays off. But I am dressed down as if I am taking Friday off. In the sweatshirt of my daughter's high school, which is for all of us of a certain age, it's a fame high school, like from the TV shows. So she spends half Sven (00:31) Nice. shabbir (00:32) her day playing cello. Sven (00:33) That's lovely. That actually was an excellent movie, side note. So today today is today is the 80s movie day. I reminded Stacy, one of our team members, today on some good 80s movie she should watch with everything developing in AI, I recommended she watch War Games. I don't know if you remember that movie with Matthew Broderick. Just shabbir (00:52) Yes. Sven (00:53) stuff just becoming really real. And I'm like, you might want to watch that because that's it's very, very relevant right now. So shabbir (00:59) The only shabbir (01:00) winning move is not to play. Sven (01:02) There you go, good quote, shabbir (01:03) Ha ha ha. Sven (01:04) like it. Well good to see you, sir. shabbir (01:08) Good to see you and good to see us both in our home. I think we just recorded an episode recently from you in a hotel room in Colorado, which was a very scenic warm lamp you had, just like the one you have in your office. Sven (01:19) That was lovely, yeah. No, and and this is one of the few where I'm not travelling. Starting next week it's gonna be it's gonna be a wild three months of travel. shabbir (01:29) Yeah. I Sven (01:30) So you will see me Sven (01:31) in lots of unusual spots during our recordings, I think. shabbir (01:35) I I am going to be traveling to visit with pa a patient victim next week and try and get her story on camera. And remains to be seen if I will be traveling internationally for more peptide victims, but we're finding them all over the world. People I'll just say this, we're not gonna do a whole story on this, but don't be taking those unapproved by the FDA peptides. That is not safe. Sven (01:58) no. Sven (01:59) No, and as as you and I talked about, because you you told me about this, I started researching it, and so I started researching it on my social media platforms. And because these algorithms now think that I like this or I'm looking for that, my entire social media feed is now full of this. And it is scary what's out there. So yeah, don't don't don't take any of this unapproved stuff. It's crazy. shabbir (02:24) So I want to start talking about airbags because Sven (02:29) Okay. shabbir (02:30) we have talked a lot about airbags, we talked about the big jury settlement, the big award, wrongful Sven (02:37) Mm-hmm. shabbir (02:38) death suit. In that case, the airbag was sold on eBay. And eBay responded this week by banning the sale of airbags on its platform. Not surprisingly. Sven (02:51) I'm I'm sure it's complete Sven (02:52) completely uncorrelated. I'm sure it's completely uncorrelated. shabbir (02:57) So this takes effect September twenty-fourth. eBay will probi prohibit the sale of all airbags and airbag inflators after a series of fatalities. I think we have nine or ten deaths in the US that have been traced to counterfeit airbags and the six hundred and three million dollar wrongful death verdict. The one young woman with children who don't have a mother anymore. the lawsuit did name eBay. I don't know if that was the deciding factor, but eBay has not shabbir (03:25) eBay is not what I would call a poor actor all the time. I mean everybody has in the brand protection world has issues with eBay, but they it's you cannot call them non-responsive. but in this case they have chosen to to respond by banning the sale of of of airbags on its platform. And I I think you've looked at the other platforms that are that that have policies on airbags, Sven. What have you found? Sven (03:50) no, and and I think, you know, well, so first of all, glad that eBay is doing this. Like it's one of those moves that's just it's very overdue. was the lawsuit a contributing factor? I would just say yes. I'm sure that they looked at it and say, hey, listen, this while they got dismissed from the lawsuit because of section 230 protection, a six hundred three million dollar verdict. You're like, you look at this and you're like, listen, that's not worth it. and but more importantly. Sven (04:17) Is pretty much every other large platform: Amazon, Facebook Marketplace, Alibaba, AliExpress, all of them, and several other marketplaces already have adopted over the years the policy to not sell airbags because they're like, we can't verify them, right? We can't match them to a VIN and all of that, and people falsify them. And so they many of those most marketplaces already prohibited it. So for me, eBay is kind of. Sven (04:45) catching up with that, which is great. I wouldn't be surprised if eBay as well as other marketplaces also start to ban all kinds of other automotive OEM parts like brake pads and all of that, because I can't verify it. And I've seen brake pads that are counterfeit that are made literally out of sawdust. and when you hit that on the highway, right? That's just gonna evaporate. So from shabbir (05:07) Yeah. Sven (05:07) a pure liability perspective Sven (05:09) These platforms hopefully will get more cautious with with things that's really safety critical. shabbir (05:15) Here's what I don't get. shabbir (05:19) With all the resources that eBay has and all the cooperation that they could possibly get from manufacturers, what this basically says when you say we're banning the sale of airbags on our platform and airbag inflators is that we cannot tell you if someone lists it if it's real. Right? That is a huge infrastructure problem. And Sven (05:41) Mm-hmm. shabbir (05:42) for a marketplace, even with the cooperation of the manufacturer, to not be able to say that we cannot. shabbir (05:48) demonstrate that this is real? Like they they could they could have taken the step that the only person allowed to sell airbags is a is an a manufacturer. Right? They could have taken that step, but they decided that that was even contained risk that they didn't want. What does it say when when even the largest marketplace, one of the largest marketplaces in the world with resources to do brand protection, throws up their hands and says, we can't do it. It's not shabbir (06:17) It's not possible to tell you Sven (06:18) Yeah. shabbir (06:19) if the airbag for sale is real or not. That's crazy. Sven (06:23) And and I I I for that one I don't even blame eBay for it. I think, you know, you and I, because we deal a lot in the pharmaceutical world, which is a a wonderful world because it's a it's a closed distribution system. The US system is a closed distribution system, and it's only licensed parties are allowed to trade with each other. everybody should know that you're licensed, you ask for licenses. often they're licensed federal, state, municipality through. Sven (06:51) That's a nice closed system. I know who's playing in it. For most other products, especially car OEMs, that doesn't exist. Almost anybody can buy automotive parts, especially secondary marketplace. So, like things that are replacement parts for repairs. There are wholesalers, there are sub jobbers, then there are repair places. So they never established a licensed marketplace. So it starts out with the I don't know who is allowed to sell. Sven (07:20) And then what they're also missing, for example, in the pharmaceutical world, you have it. You have a you have a track and trace system with a serial number I can track. And in cars, you don't always have that. Now with airbags, they tried to solve it by linking the airbag to the VIN. but if it's a replacement one, I don't have a VIN to link it to. So they just didn't serialize. So it they don't have the basic fundamentals in place to either authenticate the seller. Sven (07:47) or authenticate the product. And yeah, it's a it's a massive, it's a massive issue. In the oem market, it's a massive issue. It's generally the issue a lot of counterfeiters are dealing with that they don't have close distribution chains And that makes it really, really hard to combat counterfeit. So yeah, a hundred percent. shabbir (08:05) That's really the takeaway. You cannot layer a secure online marketplace on an unlicensed, chaotic, lacking authorization physical supply chain. And that's what airbags are, right? It's not the maker Takata of the airbag listing on eBay. It's some reseller. And they apparently don't have a closed distribution chain for those resellers to be able to s tell eBay. shabbir (08:30) And these are the only eleven companies allowed to sell. Sven (08:33) That's exactly it. That's exactly it. And Takata might have they might have because I assume Takata's from overseas. So Takata probably has a distribution partner overseas, then they have several importers here. Those importers then ship to distributor partners here, those sell to sub jobbers, so you are you're three levels in and I have no chance to authenticate that. None. shabbir (08:55) Yeah, and no licensing. Yeah. It's it's crazy. I'm I'm I'm glad to see eBay do it. I'm sorry they're the last ones. I actually like to think of them as being more more proactive than that, but it's a shame. But they did it and we should give them props for doing it. And

  4. Sep 14

    Imitation Nation Podcast No 37 Counterfeit News Audio

    In this episode, Shabbir and Sven explore the complexities of counterfeit products, focusing on airbags and luxury watches. They discuss the challenges faced by online marketplaces in verifying authenticity and the broader implications for safety and brand integrity.   Transcript:   shabbir (00:01) Sven welcome to episode number thirty seven, a prime number I'd point out of Imitation Nation. Sven (00:08) Okay. That that took me a second to think, but yes, that is a prime number. happy Friday. How are you? shabbir (00:13) I'm good. I usually try and Sven (00:14) Okay. shabbir (00:15) pretend that I take Fridays off. I clearly never take Fridays off. But I am dressed down as if I am taking Friday off. In the sweatshirt of my daughter's high school, which is for all of us of a certain age, it's a fame high school, like from the TV shows. So she spends half Sven (00:31) Nice. shabbir (00:32) her day playing cello. Sven (00:33) That's lovely. That actually was an excellent movie, side note. So today today is today is the 80s movie day. I reminded Stacy, one of our team members, today on some good 80s movie she should watch with everything developing in AI, I recommended she watch War Games. I don't know if you remember that movie with Matthew Broderick. Just shabbir (00:52) Yes. Sven (00:53) stuff just becoming really real. And I'm like, you might want to watch that because that's it's very, very relevant right now. So shabbir (00:59) The only shabbir (01:00) winning move is not to play. Sven (01:02) There you go, good quote, shabbir (01:03) Ha ha ha. Sven (01:04) like it. Well good to see you, sir. shabbir (01:08) Good to see you and good to see us both in our home. I think we just recorded an episode recently from you in a hotel room in Colorado, which was a very scenic warm lamp you had, just like the one you have in your office. Sven (01:19) That was lovely, yeah. No, and and this is one of the few where I'm not travelling. Starting next week it's gonna be it's gonna be a wild three months of travel. shabbir (01:29) Yeah. I Sven (01:30) So you will see me Sven (01:31) in lots of unusual spots during our recordings, I think. shabbir (01:35) I I am going to be traveling to visit with pa a patient victim next week and try and get her story on camera. And remains to be seen if I will be traveling internationally for more peptide victims, but we're finding them all over the world. People I'll just say this, we're not gonna do a whole story on this, but don't be taking those unapproved by the FDA peptides. That is not safe. Sven (01:58) no. Sven (01:59) No, and as as you and I talked about, because you you told me about this, I started researching it, and so I started researching it on my social media platforms. And because these algorithms now think that I like this or I'm looking for that, my entire social media feed is now full of this. And it is scary what's out there. So yeah, don't don't don't take any of this unapproved stuff. It's crazy. shabbir (02:24) So I want to start talking about airbags because Sven (02:29) Okay. shabbir (02:30) we have talked a lot about airbags, we talked about the big jury settlement, the big award, wrongful Sven (02:37) Mm-hmm. shabbir (02:38) death suit. In that case, the airbag was sold on eBay. And eBay responded this week by banning the sale of airbags on its platform. Not surprisingly. Sven (02:51) I'm I'm sure it's complete Sven (02:52) completely uncorrelated. I'm sure it's completely uncorrelated. shabbir (02:57) So this takes effect September twenty-fourth. eBay will probi prohibit the sale of all airbags and airbag inflators after a series of fatalities. I think we have nine or ten deaths in the US that have been traced to counterfeit airbags and the six hundred and three million dollar wrongful death verdict. The one young woman with children who don't have a mother anymore. the lawsuit did name eBay. I don't know if that was the deciding factor, but eBay has not shabbir (03:25) eBay is not what I would call a poor actor all the time. I mean everybody has in the brand protection world has issues with eBay, but they it's you cannot call them non-responsive. but in this case they have chosen to to respond by banning the sale of of of airbags on its platform. And I I think you've looked at the other platforms that are that that have policies on airbags, Sven. What have you found? Sven (03:50) no, and and I think, you know, well, so first of all, glad that eBay is doing this. Like it's one of those moves that's just it's very overdue. was the lawsuit a contributing factor? I would just say yes. I'm sure that they looked at it and say, hey, listen, this while they got dismissed from the lawsuit because of section 230 protection, a six hundred three million dollar verdict. You're like, you look at this and you're like, listen, that's not worth it. and but more importantly. Sven (04:17) Is pretty much every other large platform: Amazon, Facebook Marketplace, Alibaba, AliExpress, all of them, and several other marketplaces already have adopted over the years the policy to not sell airbags because they're like, we can't verify them, right? We can't match them to a VIN and all of that, and people falsify them. And so they many of those most marketplaces already prohibited it. So for me, eBay is kind of. Sven (04:45) catching up with that, which is great. I wouldn't be surprised if eBay as well as other marketplaces also start to ban all kinds of other automotive OEM parts like brake pads and all of that, because I can't verify it. And I've seen brake pads that are counterfeit that are made literally out of sawdust. and when you hit that on the highway, right? That's just gonna evaporate. So from shabbir (05:07) Yeah. Sven (05:07) a pure liability perspective Sven (05:09) These platforms hopefully will get more cautious with with things that's really safety critical. shabbir (05:15) Here's what I don't get. shabbir (05:19) With all the resources that eBay has and all the cooperation that they could possibly get from manufacturers, what this basically says when you say we're banning the sale of airbags on our platform and airbag inflators is that we cannot tell you if someone lists it if it's real. Right? That is a huge infrastructure problem. And Sven (05:41) Mm-hmm. shabbir (05:42) for a marketplace, even with the cooperation of the manufacturer, to not be able to say that we cannot. shabbir (05:48) demonstrate that this is real? Like they they could they could have taken the step that the only person allowed to sell airbags is a is an a manufacturer. Right? They could have taken that step, but they decided that that was even contained risk that they didn't want. What does it say when when even the largest marketplace, one of the largest marketplaces in the world with resources to do brand protection, throws up their hands and says, we can't do it. It's not shabbir (06:17) It's not possible to tell you Sven (06:18) Yeah. shabbir (06:19) if the airbag for sale is real or not. That's crazy. Sven (06:23) And and I I I for that one I don't even blame eBay for it. I think, you know, you and I, because we deal a lot in the pharmaceutical world, which is a a wonderful world because it's a it's a closed distribution system. The US system is a closed distribution system, and it's only licensed parties are allowed to trade with each other. everybody should know that you're licensed, you ask for licenses. often they're licensed federal, state, municipality through. Sven (06:51) That's a nice closed system. I know who's playing in it. For most other products, especially car OEMs, that doesn't exist. Almost anybody can buy automotive parts, especially secondary marketplace. So, like things that are replacement parts for repairs. There are wholesalers, there are sub jobbers, then there are repair places. So they never established a licensed marketplace. So it starts out with the I don't know who is allowed to sell. Sven (07:20) And then what they're also missing, for example, in the pharmaceutical world, you have it. You have a you have a track and trace system with a serial number I can track. And in cars, you don't always have that. Now with airbags, they tried to solve it by linking the airbag to the VIN. but if it's a replacement one, I don't have a VIN to link it to. So they just didn't serialize. So it they don't have the basic fundamentals in place to either authenticate the seller. Sven (07:47) or authenticate the product. And yeah, it's a it's a massive, it's a massive issue. In the oem market, it's a massive issue. It's generally the issue a lot of counterfeiters are dealing with that they don't have close distribution chains And that makes it really, really hard to combat counterfeit. So yeah, a hundred percent. shabbir (08:05) That's really the takeaway. You cannot layer a secure online marketplace on an unlicensed, chaotic, lacking authorization physical supply chain. And that's what airbags are, right? It's not the maker Takata of the airbag listing on eBay. It's some reseller. And they apparently don't have a closed distribution chain for those resellers to be able to s tell eBay. shabbir (08:30) And these are the only eleven companies allowed to sell. Sven (08:33) That's exactly it. That's exactly it. And Takata might have they might have because I assume Takata's from overseas. So Takata probably has a distribution partner overseas, then they have several importers here. Those importers then ship to distributor partners here, those sell to sub jobbers, so you are you're three levels in and I have no chance to authenticate that. None. shabbir (08:55) Yeah, and no licensing. Yeah. It's it's crazy. I'm I'm I'm glad to see eBay do it. I'm sorry they're the last ones. I actually like to think of them as being more more proactive than that, but it's a shame. But they did it and we should give them props for doing it. And

  5. Sep 1 ·  Video

    Imitation Nation Podcast No 36 Piotr Stryszowski Interview VIDEO

    In this week's episode of the Imitation Nation Podcast, Sven and Shabbir talk with Piotr Stryszowski, a long time expert in the global counterfeit trade problem. Check it out! Shabbir (00:01) Welcome to Imitation Nation. This is Imitation Nation, maybe episode 36, and we have our first European guest on. So this is the first time we've tried Sven (00:11) Yay. Shabbir (00:11) to span an ocean. Our guest today is Piotr Stryszowski from the OECD. We've got a lot of exciting things to talk about. And if you don't follow Piotr on LinkedIn, you should. Shabbir (00:22) And he has a he has a lot to say about the counterfeit trade and we're gonna talk a little about that today. But thank you for making time for us. It's very well it's very generous of you. Piotr (00:33) Thank you for having me. Shabbir (00:34) tell us a little bit about y how you got into illicit trade because you're obviously a international expert in illicit trade, which is why we we are so excited to talk to you. What what's your origin there? What's what was your entree and what do you find most fascinating? Piotr (00:52) Well, Shabbir thank you so much for this introduction. I'm really honored. I'm an economist by training, right? So sometimes asking myself, who am I to tell people something? my best skill is to bring people to the table smarter than me, offer them some coffee, excellent French croissants, and listen to them. but back to your question. well, I'm an economist by training. Piotr (01:15) Right, I did my PhD in the economics of IP, intellectual property, how actually intellectual property adds value to products, to countries. It's a legal concept, but how to assess economically IP? Is it possible? Right. That was that was my main thesis. and then after I completed this, I got a job at the OVCD. Piotr (01:41) Where eventually, after some years, I ended up managing working party on countering illicit trade. Right, so it's it sounds a bit of a stretch from IP to illicit trade, but actually it's not. Right? The our working party is dedicated to understanding illicit trade today. Piotr (02:06) At the OECD, well, we are mostly economists, right? we work with data. We want to understand things using data, using numbers. so when you apply this logic to illicit trade, you see that there is lots of counterfeit goods being smuggled today. That's explains the kind of the move from like an IP economist, smart, arrogant, and young. Piotr (02:32) To well, I wish humble, humble bureaucrats trying to understand what's the hell is going on out there in this world. but well, thank you for mentioning me being as an expert, right? My my role here at the OECD, I see it, is to understand how illicit trade looks like and to help our member countries with the knowledge, right? But I gather knowledge from data. Piotr (02:58) And from talking to people who know more about this subject than me. Sven (03:02) Very cool. Well, Piotr, it's really, really nice to meet you. I read your most recent report w with a lot of interest. you know, for me I found it really, really fascinating that the study that we're gonna discuss, kinda report that you've done, it it's it's really the first study I've seen that had been done, and you were one of the lead authors on it that was trying to statistically demonstrate kind of Sven (03:28) what the relationship is between forced labor and weaker labor protections and illicit trade. So can you talk about what what you have found in that report? What's the connection between forced labor and counterfeit goods? I I I'd love for you to share that. Piotr (03:47) Excellent question. maybe before jumping to this question, some like background information. our work, I mean, we are in the international organization, right? Meaning that our work is overseen by our member countries. We're really proud to work for member countries, right? What we do is supposed to help countries and citizens, people in these countries. we work a lot with the United States. Piotr (04:13) With the PTO, with DHS, with the State Department. And because we work for countries, sometimes we don't have the luxury Sven (04:22) Yeah. Piotr (04:22) of going into our interpretations. We must be very conservative in what we publish, in what we what we do. Right? So I'm just saying this as a preemptive, well, I know how to say it. Piotr (04:36) strike to say that our findings are sometimes trivial and obvious, Sven (04:40) Yeah. Piotr (04:41) right? Well you mentioned link between forced labor and counterfeit trade or trade in counterfeit goods. When you think about it conceptually it's in a way trivial or it becomes straightforward. But our work is really to to change a narrative from seems to into is right so Sven (05:02) And Piotr (05:03) We need to be comfortable to say, yes, there is a link, right? Or now our work, as I said, we want to gauge the problems, we want to understand the problems using data. And we have a big data set that comes from customs offices around the world of seizures of counterfeit goods, right? Basically. Piotr (05:28) Customs officers that the are supposed to do 10,000 jobs, right? Seizing everything from well, narcotics to substandard medicines. They also need to seize counterfeits. And we Sven (05:41) Mm-hmm. Piotr (05:42) receive regularly data from customs offices around the world about seizures of counterfeit products. What's been seized, where from, where to, quantities, brands, all the information. Piotr (05:56) These data are confidential. We work with them in-house, we don't disclose them. What we disclose is just aggregates results. And we use this data really to understand better the trends in counterfeiting and relation of counterfeiting with other measurable phenomena. Sven (06:16) Mm-hmm. Piotr (06:17) But this is just to say that measuring counterfeiting is difficult, right? Customs data are not perfect. Piotr (06:24) It's not like, you know, your weight, you put on a scale and say, crap, it's too much. I wish Shabbir (06:28) Yeah. Piotr (06:29) my weight was measured with such precision as counterfeiting sometimes. Shabbir (06:33) Ha ha ha ha. Sven (06:33) Well yeah, since it's Sven (06:35) no since it's clandestine in nature, it makes sense. It's much harder to see and you you try to Piotr (06:39) Exactly. Sven (06:39) triangulate it with all the data. So when when you looked at all of it and you're triangulating it all and you're looking at all the seizure data, what did what did you see? And how did you now make the correlation to force labor? Piotr (06:50) Exactly. So I mean it it's it's not it's in a way easy, right? Our research is easy because we don't want to go too deep to keep robustness of results at a high level. We looked on the one hand at available measures of counterfeiting, right? Because these customs data provide us inputs into aggregated measures of counterfeiting. these measures are done at country level. Piotr (07:17) We want to assess to what extent exporting countries export counterfeits. Right? So for each country in the world, we have a like an artificial index that assigns certain intensity. Of course, some countries are general exporters of everything, right? So this should be also taken into account. But we have this one on the one hand, we have index of counterfeiting. And here, on the other hand, we have existing measures of forced labor. Piotr (07:46) Here we talk about available indices, right? And we need to take into account all other measures that could impact this relationship, right? So here, like being an economist, I'm throwing everything that comes to my mind, ranging from economic variables through some trade measures to also other socioeconomic variables. I look at trends, anything, anything that comes to mind. Just to check if there is a direct link. Piotr (08:15) between both counterfeiting, export of counterfeits, and well protection of labor that cannot be explained by anything else. And here importantly, when we look at forced labor, we also looked at in accidents. So like I would say how safe labor conditions are, and at child labor, right? So like all different indices. Piotr (08:44) yeah, that's what that was the that was the black box, right? That's Sven (08:47) Yeah. Piotr (08:48) in a way simple, right? We want to keep it simple. And and the findings are again not surprising. There is a link, there is a correlation between both. Counterfeiting, yeah. Sven (09:00) So when you when Sven (09:02) you just said there's a correlation, is there did you find a correlation or did you find a causation? Like which which link did you find? Piotr (09:09) Well look here, I'm really no that we could not establish causality, right? but also when you think about it, I what would be what would be the origin of a problem? The fact that there is bad guys that export goods that are counterfeit, or the fact that these guys do not only I mean these guys don't it's not like they only don't care about IP laws but also about labor laws right? It's it's like Piotr (09:37) Two sides of the same coin. And here I would say it's more a philosophical question about causality. It just says that there's bad guys who don't care about IP and who don't care about, well, human rights, right? Who just look for money, no ethics. Shabbir (09:53) Yeah. Shabbir (09:58) You know, we have talked on the on the podcast a lot about the change, the constant change in shipping requirements and and entry requirements in different countries. The biggest story, I think, for us that affects illicit trade is the change in what we in the US call de minimis shipping. I guess you might call it the same thing in Europe, but the rules around de minimis have been changing for the past two years, and they've had a really notable effect on illicit trade. Shabbir (10:27) especially for illicit goods that come out of China into the US. At least that's that's the part I'm familiar with.

  6. Sep 1

    Imitation Nation Podcast No 36 Piotr Stryszowski Interview AUDIO

    In this week's episode of the Imitation Nation Podcast, Sven and Shabbir talk with Piotr Stryszowski, a long time expert in the global counterfeit trade problem. Check it out! Shabbir (00:01) Welcome to Imitation Nation. This is Imitation Nation, maybe episode 36, and we have our first European guest on. So this is the first time we've tried Sven (00:11) Yay. Shabbir (00:11) to span an ocean. Our guest today is Piotr Stryszowski from the OECD. We've got a lot of exciting things to talk about. And if you don't follow Piotr on LinkedIn, you should. Shabbir (00:22) And he has a he has a lot to say about the counterfeit trade and we're gonna talk a little about that today. But thank you for making time for us. It's very well it's very generous of you. Piotr (00:33) Thank you for having me. Shabbir (00:34) tell us a little bit about y how you got into illicit trade because you're obviously a international expert in illicit trade, which is why we we are so excited to talk to you. What what's your origin there? What's what was your entree and what do you find most fascinating? Piotr (00:52) Well, Shabbir thank you so much for this introduction. I'm really honored. I'm an economist by training, right? So sometimes asking myself, who am I to tell people something? my best skill is to bring people to the table smarter than me, offer them some coffee, excellent French croissants, and listen to them. but back to your question. well, I'm an economist by training. Piotr (01:15) Right, I did my PhD in the economics of IP, intellectual property, how actually intellectual property adds value to products, to countries. It's a legal concept, but how to assess economically IP? Is it possible? Right. That was that was my main thesis. and then after I completed this, I got a job at the OVCD. Piotr (01:41) Where eventually, after some years, I ended up managing working party on countering illicit trade. Right, so it's it sounds a bit of a stretch from IP to illicit trade, but actually it's not. Right? The our working party is dedicated to understanding illicit trade today. Piotr (02:06) At the OECD, well, we are mostly economists, right? we work with data. We want to understand things using data, using numbers. so when you apply this logic to illicit trade, you see that there is lots of counterfeit goods being smuggled today. That's explains the kind of the move from like an IP economist, smart, arrogant, and young. Piotr (02:32) To well, I wish humble, humble bureaucrats trying to understand what's the hell is going on out there in this world. but well, thank you for mentioning me being as an expert, right? My my role here at the OECD, I see it, is to understand how illicit trade looks like and to help our member countries with the knowledge, right? But I gather knowledge from data. Piotr (02:58) And from talking to people who know more about this subject than me. Sven (03:02) Very cool. Well, Piotr, it's really, really nice to meet you. I read your most recent report w with a lot of interest. you know, for me I found it really, really fascinating that the study that we're gonna discuss, kinda report that you've done, it it's it's really the first study I've seen that had been done, and you were one of the lead authors on it that was trying to statistically demonstrate kind of Sven (03:28) what the relationship is between forced labor and weaker labor protections and illicit trade. So can you talk about what what you have found in that report? What's the connection between forced labor and counterfeit goods? I I I'd love for you to share that. Piotr (03:47) Excellent question. maybe before jumping to this question, some like background information. our work, I mean, we are in the international organization, right? Meaning that our work is overseen by our member countries. We're really proud to work for member countries, right? What we do is supposed to help countries and citizens, people in these countries. we work a lot with the United States. Piotr (04:13) With the PTO, with DHS, with the State Department. And because we work for countries, sometimes we don't have the luxury Sven (04:22) Yeah. Piotr (04:22) of going into our interpretations. We must be very conservative in what we publish, in what we what we do. Right? So I'm just saying this as a preemptive, well, I know how to say it. Piotr (04:36) strike to say that our findings are sometimes trivial and obvious, Sven (04:40) Yeah. Piotr (04:41) right? Well you mentioned link between forced labor and counterfeit trade or trade in counterfeit goods. When you think about it conceptually it's in a way trivial or it becomes straightforward. But our work is really to to change a narrative from seems to into is right so Sven (05:02) And Piotr (05:03) We need to be comfortable to say, yes, there is a link, right? Or now our work, as I said, we want to gauge the problems, we want to understand the problems using data. And we have a big data set that comes from customs offices around the world of seizures of counterfeit goods, right? Basically. Piotr (05:28) Customs officers that the are supposed to do 10,000 jobs, right? Seizing everything from well, narcotics to substandard medicines. They also need to seize counterfeits. And we Sven (05:41) Mm-hmm. Piotr (05:42) receive regularly data from customs offices around the world about seizures of counterfeit products. What's been seized, where from, where to, quantities, brands, all the information. Piotr (05:56) These data are confidential. We work with them in-house, we don't disclose them. What we disclose is just aggregates results. And we use this data really to understand better the trends in counterfeiting and relation of counterfeiting with other measurable phenomena. Sven (06:16) Mm-hmm. Piotr (06:17) But this is just to say that measuring counterfeiting is difficult, right? Customs data are not perfect. Piotr (06:24) It's not like, you know, your weight, you put on a scale and say, crap, it's too much. I wish Shabbir (06:28) Yeah. Piotr (06:29) my weight was measured with such precision as counterfeiting sometimes. Shabbir (06:33) Ha ha ha ha. Sven (06:33) Well yeah, since it's Sven (06:35) no since it's clandestine in nature, it makes sense. It's much harder to see and you you try to Piotr (06:39) Exactly. Sven (06:39) triangulate it with all the data. So when when you looked at all of it and you're triangulating it all and you're looking at all the seizure data, what did what did you see? And how did you now make the correlation to force labor? Piotr (06:50) Exactly. So I mean it it's it's not it's in a way easy, right? Our research is easy because we don't want to go too deep to keep robustness of results at a high level. We looked on the one hand at available measures of counterfeiting, right? Because these customs data provide us inputs into aggregated measures of counterfeiting. these measures are done at country level. Piotr (07:17) We want to assess to what extent exporting countries export counterfeits. Right? So for each country in the world, we have a like an artificial index that assigns certain intensity. Of course, some countries are general exporters of everything, right? So this should be also taken into account. But we have this one on the one hand, we have index of counterfeiting. And here, on the other hand, we have existing measures of forced labor. Piotr (07:46) Here we talk about available indices, right? And we need to take into account all other measures that could impact this relationship, right? So here, like being an economist, I'm throwing everything that comes to my mind, ranging from economic variables through some trade measures to also other socioeconomic variables. I look at trends, anything, anything that comes to mind. Just to check if there is a direct link. Piotr (08:15) between both counterfeiting, export of counterfeits, and well protection of labor that cannot be explained by anything else. And here importantly, when we look at forced labor, we also looked at in accidents. So like I would say how safe labor conditions are, and at child labor, right? So like all different indices. Piotr (08:44) yeah, that's what that was the that was the black box, right? That's Sven (08:47) Yeah. Piotr (08:48) in a way simple, right? We want to keep it simple. And and the findings are again not surprising. There is a link, there is a correlation between both. Counterfeiting, yeah. Sven (09:00) So when you when Sven (09:02) you just said there's a correlation, is there did you find a correlation or did you find a causation? Like which which link did you find? Piotr (09:09) Well look here, I'm really no that we could not establish causality, right? but also when you think about it, I what would be what would be the origin of a problem? The fact that there is bad guys that export goods that are counterfeit, or the fact that these guys do not only I mean these guys don't it's not like they only don't care about IP laws but also about labor laws right? It's it's like Piotr (09:37) Two sides of the same coin. And here I would say it's more a philosophical question about causality. It just says that there's bad guys who don't care about IP and who don't care about, well, human rights, right? Who just look for money, no ethics. Shabbir (09:53) Yeah. Shabbir (09:58) You know, we have talked on the on the podcast a lot about the change, the constant change in shipping requirements and and entry requirements in different countries. The biggest story, I think, for us that affects illicit trade is the change in what we in the US call de minimis shipping. I guess you might call it the same thing in Europe, but the rules around de minimis have been changing for the past two years, and they've had a really notable effect on illicit trade. Shabbir (10:27) especially for illicit goods that come out of China into the US. At least that's that's the part I'm familiar with.

  7. Aug 27 ·  Video

    Imitation Nation Podcast No 35 Counterfeit News Video Version

    In this episode of the Imitation Nation podcast, Sven and Shabbir explore the evolving landscape of counterfeit goods, from pharmaceuticals to luxury watches, and the technological innovations fighting back. They also discuss how counterfeiters adapt, the importance of brand protection, and the future of digital counterfeiting.

  8. Aug 27

    Imitation Nation Podcast No 35 Counterfeit News Audio Version

    In this episode of the Imitation Nation podcast, Sven and Shabbir explore the evolving landscape of counterfeit goods, from pharmaceuticals to luxury watches, and the technological innovations fighting back. They also discuss how counterfeiters adapt, the importance of brand protection, and the future of digital counterfeiting.

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About

Imitation Nation is a podcast that covers all things counterfeit, hosted by Shabbir Imber Safdar and Sven Bergmann.

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  • Creator
    Imitation Nation
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    52
  • Rating
    Clean
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    © Copyright 2025 All rights reserved.
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    Imitation Nation