Five Rules for the Good Life Podcast

Darin Bresnitz
  • 5.0 (1)
  • Food
  • Updated Weekly

Five rules for the good life and other tips for living well as told by those who made it their business to do so. fiverules.substack.com

  1. 6d ago

    Evan Marks

    "All of it is inviting participation. Participation in the magic around us.” - Evan Marks If you haven’t already, please make sure to subscribe and give Five Rules for the Good Life on Spotify & Apple Podcasts. Evan Marks Evan Marks, founder and executive director of The Ecology Center, joins me to share his Five Rules for an Abundant Life. We talk about finding gratitude in the miraculous, growing your own food, taking nourishment seriously, making things with your hands, and sharing whatever you have in surplus. Together, his rules offer a thoughtful invitation to reconnect with nature, contribute to your community, and build a richer life by becoming an active participant in it. What Evan and his community have built in San Juan Capistrano is more than a regenerative organic farm. It is a living example of what becomes possible when people come together around food, nature, and a shared sense of purpose. The Ecology Center reminds us that life is not something we are meant to simply observe or consume. We have to participate—to plant something, make something, share something, and give a little of ourselves to the world around us. The more we take part in life, the more abundant it becomes. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with Evan Marks, the founder and executive director of The Ecology Center, a truly awe-inspiring, regenerative, organic farm, cafe, and education center located in Southern California. He’s here to share his five rules for an abundant life. He talks about the importance of participating, that making something yourself leads to a much richer life, and that the more you share with others, the more the world shares with you. This conversation offers incredible insights on a different approach to living and how, by redefining your relationship with nature, you will be able to live a much richer life. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. The Ecology Center Evan, so nice to meet you. I’m so excited to be talking to you today about The Ecology Center. You’ve built such a beautiful space. Welcome to the show. Thank you, brother. Honored to be here. For those who might be unfamiliar with The Ecology Center, truly a unique place, can you explain its mission and its approach to food? Its mission is to shift culture. How we’ve done that so far is we’ve built an environment, an ecotopia. It’s a 28-acre ecosystem that inspires us to think and be in a different state, and that connects back to food, reminding people of the basic tenets of knowing where your food comes from and being deeply nourished, mind-body-spirit, in those endeavors of food or otherwise. As the founder, how did you take your life studies and adventures and turn it into something tangible? The Sum of a Life I like to say that we’re just all individually a sum of the parts that we’ve been paying attention to. I guess I was lucky to have good mentors, and I attuned my awareness to mostly traditional people, Indigenous cultures, and tropical environments. I just became fascinated with how humans have lived on this planet for centuries in harmony. That’s really been the design challenge: How do we take those pieces of civilization and culture and integrate them into the present and future tenets in a place unlikely like Orange County? The Principle of Participation There are a lot of tenets that make up what you’ve put together. One of the ones that really stuck out to me was this fundamental principle of participation. How do you weave this through the Center’s farm, garden, cafe, and all of its endeavors? We’re a village, so we’ve got a lot of different expressions. All of it is inviting participation. Participation in the magic around us. Participation in our food system. Participation in the joy of being on this beautiful planet. We do that through a whole myriad of programs, from farm dinners to music festivals, to yoga classes, to field trips, to cooking classes, to shopping at the cafe and eating in the farm stand. It’s a real wide aperture of offerings here, but all of it is an invitation to jump on board. I love that you’ve opened up your life in this space, showing people who are looking for a different type of living and being so generous with that, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules of an abundant life. Rule One: Find Gratitude in the Miraculous In setting the foundation for this approach to living, it really comes with finding this right mindset and searching for this one thing. What’s your rule number one? So much of the magic that we’re trying to inspire is the state of being. My first rule is in the context of peace and finding gratitude in the miraculous. I love that. There’s magic everywhere, and life is precious and planet Earth is sacred. The path that I’ve found is finding deep relationship and reverence to nature. When we can do that, we learn how to fill our tanks and inspire purpose, and that motivates us to be the best version of ourselves. Rule Two: Grow Your Own and Start Small As people have experienced life and lived in our current society, there has been a real separation from understanding where food or things that come from the Earth really come from. Your second rule talks about getting back to this practice and figuring out how to make something of your own. What’s your rule number two? Yeah, my rule number two is grow your own and start small. Small-scale solutions are the path forward. That means getting good at planting a container garden of herbs and tomatoes, having potted plants in your apartment, or a lemon tree out the back door of your kitchen. These are all just simple invitations to participate in adding that magic element to every meal. Moving out to California from New York, I remember the first time I picked a lime from the tree in my backyard and the absolute beauty and magic that came from putting it in my drink. Living here now for the last 10 years, I’ve really adjusted the way that I think about the food that I cook and what I put into my body, which makes up your rule number three. Rule Three: Health Is Wealth Health is wealth. Take nourishment seriously. The path to that is knowing your farmers and getting excited about making those meaningful investments in your health and the health of your ecosystem. Go to the source: the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. The farmer’s market is your number one stop. Rule Four: Do It Yourself Beyond just buying locally or growing your own food, there is a way that a lot of people consume now that is one and done. If it’s broke, just buy something new, or really be intimidated to practice this DIY lifestyle. Your rule number four talks about the importance of understanding how to make something for yourself. What’s your rule number four? Rule number four is do it yourself. Use your hands. Make something. That, in my context, could be making a worm bin, building raised beds in your backyard, or building a picnic table to celebrate the harvest with your children. The core of it is put your hands to work, get them away from any of the digital toxins, and move them back into planet Earth. Rule Five: Share the Surplus I know, as people look at the life in front of them, think about what they can make, what they can cook, what they can grow, and what money they have to spend, there is this concern about either not having enough or wasting things. Your fifth and final rule talks about planning for a life of abundance while considering what you can give to other people. What’s your rule number five? Rule number five is to share the surplus. That is really in the consciousness more than anything, which is the more you give, the more you get. We all want to line up to those age-old principles of leaving it better than we found it and giving more than we take. That can be volunteering a little bit of time to a meaningful cause. That could be sharing an extra lemon from your tree or donating some extra resources to an organization that you care about in your community. All of these are participatory ways of getting on board with the shift in the culture that is necessary for an abundant future for all of us. Closing Evan, congratulations on everything that you built. If people want to visit the farm, stop by the cafe, or check out the dinners you’re throwing, where can they go? How can they sign up to keep informed? Check us out online at theecologycenter.org. Most importantly, come on down. We’re in San Juan Capistrano. That’s between Los Angeles and San Diego. It’s a worthy field trip, and it’s a full day of fun here on the farm. That’s the best way to do it, is just to dive in. I can’t wait to swing down with my family someday soon. Evan, appreciate the time, and can’t wait to dine with you around your shared table. Thanks, brother. Appreciate the opportunity to share. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    Evan Marks

  2. Aug 24

    Justin Pichetrungsi

    Justin Pichetrungsi, chef and owner of Anajak Thai Cuisine, joins me to share his Five (Easy) Rules for Taking Over Your Parents’ Restaurant. We talk about burning yourself out—and knowing when not to—along with the importance of arguing with your parents, listening to them, and recognizing that old things are often cooler than new ones. Justin reflects on taking over his family’s restaurant, preserving its history, and finding a way to move the business forward without losing what made it special. Together, his rules offer an honest and thoughtful guide to inheriting not only a restaurant, but all the memories, relationships, and responsibilities that come with it. The beauty of this episode is Justin’s openness about how complicated it can be to carry on a family tradition. He does not romanticize the work or pretend the transition happened without disagreements, exhaustion, or doubt. Instead, he shows how listening, arguing, preserving, and changing can all be expressions of the same love. There is something deeply moving about watching a new generation build upon what came before while making sure the people, stories, and traditions that created it are never forgotten. Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. I’m always excited when I get to spend time with today’s guest, Justin Pichetrungsi who is the chef and owner of Anajak Thai Cuisine. He’s here to share his five easy rules to taking over your parents’ restaurant. He talks about the duality of both burning yourself out and taking care of yourself, the importance of arguing with your parents, and how everything old is cooler than everything new. It is an extremely insightful conversation from someone who has successfully transitioned his family’s restaurant from one generation to another. For anyone who has found themselves in the same situation or for anyone who wants to hear the story of how it is done well, this is the episode for you. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Justin, always a pleasure to see you. Thank you again for splashing us out the last time we were in. Welcome to Five Rules. Thank you, I like this. Taking Over the Family Restaurant In many ways, the tradition of taking over a parent’s restaurant used to be common. Why do you think that went away and why do you think it’s back? Is it back? You tell me. Oh, why do I think it went away? I actually have thought about this quite a bit. You see this a lot in Europe. You see it a lot in Asia. You see a lot of the passing down of the torch to the next generation, whether or not it’s a restaurant. Why don’t we see it here in Los Angeles so much or in America rather? And I think it’s because we have this belief that we can become independently wealthy within one generation. So it’s not necessary to build upon the intergenerational wealth and knowledge that our parents passed down. I can charge ahead in my own career and live the fullest of my life in the way that I wanna do it. The second thing is that there’s a lot of parents of immigrants, a lot of parents of non-immigrants that are gonna say, no, I want you to live life better than I live. Don’t take over my shop. Pursue your dreams, pursue your life. I was always really afraid that I was gonna lose something if my parents closed the restaurant down. I was gonna lose a part of the family. I was gonna lose my living room where I’m sitting in right now. That fear of what was gonna happen to the recipes and to the memories was really what guided me into it. A Beautiful Renovation You’re celebrating your 45th restaurant birthday and you recently did a beautiful renovation of Anna Jack. What did you wanna preserve? What did you wanna overhaul? I love the atmosphere that the old place became. It was hard to be able to explain that to my general contractor. In fact, I moved on to different contractors until I found someone who understood this idea that it wasn’t gonna be a change. We’re gonna take the little needle and poke it into the thing, extract the DNA, and then the T-Rex, right? Dave Chang said to me, it was days right before we closed for the demolition, he said. There’s only three things you need to keep. One, the wine in the middle of the room, which makes no sense. One of one. Two, the Kobe jersey, and three, your grandfather’s art. And those were the things that stayed. Sometimes having those items that represent the lineage of the restaurant are so important to have and really help tell the story. Sharing with Your Parents It’s amazing because you’ve been able to do all this and share it with your parents. What’s been the most special part about that to you? They were leaving the restaurant at the end of their career in a state that was very challenged. If you remember the feelings that you were going through in 2007, 2008, 2009, the difficulties of what restaurants were going through during the recessionary time. Tough. It hit my parents so hard. They were working seven days a week. For the most part, just the two of them, plus a few other helpers. So for me, to be able to see them at a certain sense of peace, at least peace within the business. Life is as hectic as it always is. I’m the most proud of that, knowing that they can go into their retirement without worrying about that. This was my gift to him, truly. It’s such a beautiful gift. And as more people in America start to look to continue on traditions, especially in the hospitality space, being able to see what you’ve done and using it as a map is nothing short of amazing, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five easy steps to taking over your parents’ restaurant. Easy redacted, by the way. Easy redacted. Rule One: Burn Yourself Out You can look at social media, you can look at this a few years in and feel like everything’s gelled completely. There was a plan from the beginning that the success came effortlessly, which couldn’t be farther from the truth and ties directly into your rule number one. Rule number one is burn yourself out. It’s an interesting rule to give because we’re such in a mode of career wokeness that we have to protect ourselves, right? Which I respect, I really do. But also, in the food business, in the restaurant business, it’s a 24 hour business, more or less. By the time the cleaners leave, the AM teams come in. To dive so deep into every aspect of it, of course, it’s kind of hyperbole, burn yourself out. Of course. We’re all in this kind of cycle of burning ourselves out, finding inspiration. Rule Two: Do Not Burn Yourself Out It’s this constant molting of our outer shell and getting stronger as we do it that it really motivates you and it can motivate the team and motivate the diners as well to put everything into it. Putting everything into it does inspire the people who are following you and the diners at large, especially when you’re taking something that’s beloved and making a lot of big changes. The other side of the coin from your rule number one is this, what’s your rule number two? Conversely, my rule number two is to not burn yourself out, to be quite careful of it because the dichotomy of that delirium and the creativity that comes from the delirium of being up all night. Contrast that with the creativity that you get from being relaxed, being bored. Daniel Son from Sonagi said, I’m never as creative as I am as when I’m bored. Boredom is the birthplace of great creativity. The mind is able to wander and honestly, the pandemic or the pandy, as I’m trying to call it. The pandy taught us that we could use this downtime to interact with other people, interact with other industries, interact with other chefs. Interact with yourself. Interact with ourselves and the world and nature and all of these countries that have all these longstanding multi-generational family businesses. We have to learn from that. You touch on a good point. Rule Three: Argue With Your Parents These are multi-generational businesses, which means you’re not just taking the name, you’re taking everything that comes with a restaurant. That means you’re also taking your parents, which can sometimes lead to creative tension and ties directly into your rule number three. Rule number three is that you have to argue with your parents. On the record. On the record, I’m saying it’s absolutely crucial. You need to let them know with the full honesty and the full emotion, how you feel about things moving forward in the business. Ed Catmull from Pixar said that Steve Jobs fired a guy on the board of Pixar because he never argued with him. I respect that. He was trying to say, I wanna learn from someone else’s perspective. Why do I need someone who also has my perspective? I got that covered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My folks and I learned how to argue with one another. We learned how to understand each other through this process. We were able to get our perspectives to co-exist in the same space. At Old Anajac, you felt the tension of those things. Rule Four: Listen to Your Parents It’s just like these magnets that almost could never touch. Just like your rule number one and number two, there is a dichotomy with your rule number three in working with your parents. What’s your rule number four? If rule number three is to argue with your parents, rule number four is to listen to your parents. On the record. On the record, kids. A lot of people will say this as they get older. Your parents were right much of the time. Fair. My parents are a little bit old school in the way that they think about business. I mean, the kind of small business, immigrant control formula is very different. I understand control to be, it’s not a zero sum game. I understand the role of creativity and the role of managing creatives as a part of the business. There may be some kind of loss when you go from one style to the ot

    Justin Pichetrungsi

  3. Aug 17

    Carter Hiyama

    Restaurant photographer Carter Hiyama, whose book On Service, Volume One is out now, joins me to share his Five Rules for Restaurant Food Photography. We talk about why light is everything, the importance of removing distractions from the table, and why making sure your lens is clean is a must. He also explains how his background shooting skateboarding influenced the way he captures the kinetic energy of restaurant kitchens and the feeling of being in the dining room. Everyone wants to take better food photos, whether it is to show their love of food, support their local restaurant scene, or share something they are genuinely excited about. A great photograph can introduce people to a restaurant, celebrate the work happening in its kitchen, and help us feel more connected to the community around it. I love how Carter’s rules make that feel possible for everyone, regardless of the camera they use or how much experience they have. His inisghts give us the tools to take better pictures while reminding us that the real goal is to appreciate the food, the people who made it, and the experience of being there. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m joined by my good bud, Carter Hiyama, who is a restaurant photographer based out of Portland, Oregon, whose new book, On Service, Volume 1, is out now. He’s here to share his five rules for restaurant photography. He talks about the importance of lighting, why you should remove any distractions when setting up your shot, and, most importantly, why you shouldn’t let taking photos interrupt your meal. It is a great conversation for anyone who is shooting professionally and wants to up their game, or anyone who is just snapping photos for their own social feed. So, let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Getting Started in Restaurant Photography Carter, always great to see you. It was such a pleasure to have dinner with you and Veronica Ahum up in Portland the other week. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Photography, especially food photography, has become so ubiquitous today. When did you realize that you wanted to move into doing it more professionally? I think it was probably right around 2019. I had just started to work with some restaurants, most notably Bell’s, but I was actually just doing video at the time. Shout out. That was when I got my first taste of doing restaurant work, and at the same time, I started to get really into food. So, I fell in love with the thought of being able to do it professionally. Luckily, since then, that’s what I’ve been doing. Finding a Personal Style Every photographer has their own unique style and approach. What are the stories and themes that influence your work? What are you trying to show through your work? I came from shooting skateboarding. I feel like I always tie things back to that. One of my favorite things to shoot is in the kitchen with a wide lens and just getting right up in there. It feels like I’m filming skating with a fisheye lens. Most of the time, when I’m shooting food photography or just restaurant photography in general, it’s more about trying to convey what it’s like to actually be at this restaurant. Not just showing what the food looks like, but what the surroundings look like, what the vibe of the restaurant is, and what it feels like to actually sit there and eat. Creating On Service, Volume 1 If you follow your work on Instagram or just know you personally, you’ve been to so many restaurants and have thousands of photos. How did you select the ones for your first book, On Service, Volume 1? First, I started with really wanting to feature Bell’s and Anajak. From there, I was trying to pick the photos that were the most influential or sentimental to me. Aside from that, it’s a combination of a lot of my favorite shots that I’ve taken over the last five years or so. What I love about your work is that it’s so personal, so accessible, and seems like anyone who wants to start taking their photos to another level can learn a lot from what you do. That is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for restaurant food photography. Rule One: Light Is Everything Many of us have run into this situation: A gorgeous plate hits the table, phones come out, and there are shadows, it’s dark, and there’s just no way you’re going to get a good shot of the food. This applies a lot of times even when you’re shooting during the day, before the restaurant opens for service, and is a big consideration for your rule number one. Rule number one is: Light is everything. It doesn’t matter what kind of camera you’re taking with. If your light is really bad, the photo is going to be bad. If your light is really good, you could be shooting on a professional camera or an iPhone, and it’ll look great. That’s really the determining factor in how well the dish looks and whether the textures and colors come out. The thing that I was thinking about with the light is that I always want it to come from one direction and kind of rake across the dish. That’s how you get a lot of texture to come out. If you think of something like bread that has a lot of little crevices, if you have light that’s coming across it, all those little crevices create tiny little shadows, which really makes the dish pop. The way you position the light is so important for pulling out all those minute details that really make your food pop. But where you’re taking the photo from also plays a big role and makes up your rule number two. Rule Two: Think About Your Angle Rule number two is: Think about your angle. A lot of it will depend on the dish that you’re shooting. For instance, a burger. Usually, you wouldn’t really want to shoot that from the top because it’ll just look like a brown circle of the bun. When you think about the dish that you’re shooting, what is the most important thing that you want to feature about it? With a burger, you really want to see the layers and the melty cheese coming off the side. Then you know you want to shoot it from a lower angle and show off that side profile, versus something like a pizza, which you would shoot from overhead. Shooting from overhead has become a pretty well-seen style because people want these natural, lived-in environments. But just because you’re shooting the entire table doesn’t mean that everything needs to stay on the table. Rule Three: Remove Distractions What’s your rule number three? Rule number three is: Remove distractions. Things like dirty napkins, empty glasses, and phones. That’s a common one—people’s phones on the tables. Maybe it’s just a pet peeve of mine, but I feel like I always try to move those out of the way. This is just for casually taking photos, not during a professional shoot. If you’re just out having dinner with friends and I’m trying to take a quick photo, usually less is more. If I’m just trying to feature one dish, I’ll try to make sure that’s the main focus. You can include other plates, cocktails, wine, or a menu—something creeping into the frame. I feel like that is always nice. Rule Four: Clean Your Lens Summertime is here, and there’s so much great food at restaurants and in the market. That also means people who are outside are usually lathered up in sunscreen. Your fourth rule talks about the importance of keeping this clean. What’s your rule number four? Rule number four is: Clean your lens. Yeah, I know it sounds basic, but it’s kind of surprising how often I’ll open up my camera and I can tell the lens is blurry or smeared. Or, if there’s some light hitting the lens, you can tell everything’s super washed out and you get a ton of glare. Basic camera tips: Wipe your lens, tap on the dish or whatever you’re trying to focus on, and make sure that’s in focus. If you’re shooting in sunlight, lower the exposure. A lot of the time, bright hot spots on the plate will be super blown out. For some reason, the phone is just okay with that. So, I always try to darken it, and that makes for a nicer picture. Rule Five: Don’t Let Taking Photos Interrupt Your Meal There are so many things to consider when you’re taking a nice photograph at a restaurant. Whether that’s a candid portrait of a chef while you’re in the kitchen or a dish that’s on your table, it can take a lot of time to get everything adjusted just the way you want. Your fifth and final rule talks about balancing the time it takes to take a photo with this consideration. What’s your rule number five? Rule number five is: Don’t let taking photos interrupt your meal. I’m guilty of it, but yes. When we had dinner, it was totally fine. We just took our phones out really quickly and snapped a couple of pictures. Yeah. I feel like that’s the perfect balance. Sometimes I’ll see people taking their phones out every time a dish hits the table, or they start recording videos and everyone has to stop what they’re doing to pause for this content moment. If that’s what you’re there to do and you’re being paid to be there and do that, that’s totally fine. I feel like, in a regular, casual dinner setting, it can be kind of disruptive. Yeah. So, I usually just try to get my couple of pictures, and that’s it. Closing Carter, congratulations on the book. If anyone wants to order one of the few remaining copies, because it’s almost sold out, or follow along with the work that you’re shooting on a day-to-day basis, where can they go? I have them for sale on my website at carterhiyama.com, and they’re also being sold at select stores across the U.S. Support your local independent bookshop. Shout out to Now Serving. I know that they have a few copies left here in L.A. I can’t wait to see you again, share another meal, and take some photos together when we’re in the same city. Definitely. Thanks for havin

    Carter Hiyama

  4. Aug 10

    Adam Weisblatt

    Adam Weissblatt, co-founder of Last Word Hospitality and author of For the Love of Restaurants, joins me to share his Five Rules for Opening a Neighborhood Restaurant. We talk about trusting your gut, treating your landlord like a true business partner, and making sure you can deliver on what you promise. After opening seven restaurants of his own, Adam offers an honest and practical look at what it takes to turn the dream of a restaurant into a place that can become part of its community. What I find most inspiring about Adam is his willingness to openly share knowledge that took him years—and plenty of hard lessons—to earn. For more people to succeed in this industry, we need more people willing to follow his example and let go of the gatekeeping that has kept so much valuable information out of reach. Sharing what you know does not diminish your own accomplishments; it gives someone else a better chance to build something meaningful of their own Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m chatting with Adam Weissblatt, the co-founder of Last Word Hospitality and the author of For the Love of Restaurants, An Insider’s Guide from Daydreams to Opening Night, which comes out tomorrow on August 11th. He’s here to share his five rules for opening a neighborhood restaurant. He talks about the importance of trusting your gut, how by building the right team sets you up for the right success, and that by being honest with yourself and those you’re working with allows for a long existence in any community. It’s a great conversation for anyone who’s ever dreamed of opening up their own space from someone who has walked the walk and opened up seven of his own spaces. The Neighborhood Restaurant So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Adam, always great to see your smiling face. Thank you for taking a break from your restaurants and hospitality group and congrats on the book, The Love of Restaurants, which comes out tomorrow. Yes, sir. Tomorrow. It used to be that a neighborhood restaurant was a bit of a backhanded compliment. Rise of the Neighborhood Restaurant How has that perception and term shifted over the last few years? As the economy struggles, people are looking for familiarity and they’re looking for comfort. A restaurant is the ultimate form of being able to go out, have a big night out, but then maybe not spend as much, including just on the simple realities of getting to and from. What it costs to get in an Uber or gas or everything like that. It all factors into how people make decisions about where they’re going to eat. Now, maybe more than ever, people are looking for that neighborhood comforting place and want a place they can call their own. That’s really good. The Search Your group, Last Word Hospitality, has specialized in neighborhood restaurants and has seven different spots in your portfolio. What is the through line that ties them all together and makes them a part of their individual communities? We’re always just looking for beautiful spaces that represent a cool aesthetic of that neighborhood. When you take an old building that’s been there since the 20s or 30s and it’s been uncared for and you put love into it, that already starts to show people that you really genuinely have pride in what you’re doing and that matters. For us, we partner with people on each one of these projects. I love that. Every time you walk into the restaurant and you ask, who is the owner, the chef and the GM are going to be part of that team of owners. You’re going to have that constant connection through the people in the space to ownership. I think that really matters and draws a connection between community. Being able to be a authentic and literal part of the community from the space to the people in it has been something that’s defined your career and approach to building these different spaces. For the Love of Restaurants The book, The Love of Restaurants, I remember you telling me about it four or five years ago at a one-on-one event. Why was now the right moment to share it with the world? Three years ago, when I really started to take it seriously, I lost two of my best friends in the same year. One to cancer, one to unnatural causes, unfortunately. So sorry. Thank you. It motivated me to do something really difficult and to do it in their honor. I did always feel like there was a gap in the book market of just a book that you could pick up if you were waiting tables or cooking or managing or being a chef and find a path that shows you what it means to become an owner of a restaurant. You’re going to touch in real estate and you’re going to touch in permitting and you’re going to touch the city and all these things that you won’t necessarily learn in your day-to-day managing a restaurant even as a general manager. That’s the information I wanted to really share and I wanted to do it in a way that restaurant people could read and find enjoyable. Rule One: Trust Your Gut I’m so happy that the era of gatekeeping is done and I’m seeing it more and more across different creative industries, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for opening a neighborhood restaurant. Anyone’s ever walked into a hot restaurant on a Friday night, you immediately feel the energy the second you walk through the door. What’s harder than that is walking into that same space months, if not years, before a big night can happen, but it ties directly into your rule number one. Rule number one is you do have to have this feeling in your gut. There has to be a natural attraction to what it is you’re going to do. Considering you’re committing years of your life to this, and I always think work in years and live in the present, try to enjoy every moment, but know that if you’re going to do big things, it’s going to take amounts of time and so be patient with yourself. The first feeling is do you truly love it? When you look at that space, do you envision a restaurant there and can you play in your mind how people are going to interact with it? You need to be able to fully visualize whatever restaurant in your head is there in that physical space and how people will truly react to it and be as honest with yourself as one can be when talking about your own emotions. That honesty and having that trust with your own emotions is key because at some point you are the one who knows what you’re really going to like, but to build any business in anything, especially a restaurant, you do need to have good partnerships and having a good relationship with this person is your rule number two. Landlord is your first business partner in these deals a lot of the time. Rule Two: Your Landlord Is Your First Business Partner Big time. In order to raise money, Holly, my partner since 2014, we had to put in money at least to get the lease assigned. Then we could prove to people that we were serious and that we could then go out and raise capital against it. First person to convince that you’re serious is a landlord. In our experience, you really want to like that person as much as you can. That is a real relationship that will be ongoing. It will be a very serious relationship. If you’re going through things like the fires or COVID or all the stuff we’ve done for years, that’s the person you’re going to be turning to and working with, but no guests can show up. The only person you can really try to figure shit out with is your landlord. Rule Three: Choose the Right Partners You being on the front lines with your landlord and being able to take on the outwardly problems for your team is really important, but to run the restaurant day to day, you got to look inside the four walls and put together these types of people, which are rule number three. Partners, I don’t think I would ever do a restaurant without knowing that there was going to be a number of extra people there to partner with me and to help carry that person. People say it’s like a marathon, but marathons have a start and finish and restaurants don’t end, especially if you’re doing well. I won’t even consider a project unless we can really visualize who those people are going to be. It’s at least a chef and at least a general manager and not only them running that place and being part of that community, but also working with each other. A lot of our partners who’ve now developed into great friends didn’t necessarily know each other before. Some of the magic of what I think we’ve been able to do over the years is find like-minded people who often have really different backgrounds, but you just think will be great together. And if it turns out to be true, Mike and Melissa from Barra Santos didn’t know each other. That’s crazy. Their friendship is so real and genuine. It’s the reason why that restaurant feels the way it does. You make friends fast when you’re working in the trenches to say. When you’re cramming in 10, 12, 14 hour days, those friendships and those relationships really develop. Even when you have great relationships, even if you have a good landlord, even if you have a space you love, you still need runway. And without this resource, that’s not going to happen. Rule Four: You Need Enough Money What’s your rule number four? You need enough money. The M word. Restaurants are very expensive. Every locale is different. And so I was very careful in the book to never name dollar amounts. Doing a restaurant in all different municipalities across the country is going to cost very different amounts. But that doesn’t mean that that amount isn’t a lot of money in each one of those municipalities. I don’t think they’re ever really affordable. It’s going to be expensive to whomever’s doing it in whatever community they’re doing it from. There is a reality to this where some restaurants don

    Adam Weisblatt

  5. Aug 3

    Mackenzie Hoffman

    Mackenzie Hoffman, co-owner and operator of Stir Crazy, joins me to share her Five Rules for Creating a Restaurant that Feels Timeless. We talk about welcoming solo diners, staying earnest, and maintaining your principles without compromise. She explains why restaurants should avoid chasing trends, remain grounded in their values, and become genuine friends to the people and businesses around them. It is a conversation about creating a sense of place—one that feels deeply connected to its neighborhood while offering guests an escape from the world outside. Together, her rules offer a thoughtful blueprint for building a restaurant that does more than serve great food—it creates a feeling people want to return to again and again. After nearly twenty-five years of covering and working with restaurants, I have seen that the places that last—both by keeping their doors open and finding a permanent place in people’s hearts—are the ones that embrace their communities. They know their neighbors, welcome regulars and first-timers with the same generosity, and become part of the rhythm of local life. A truly timeless restaurant does not impose itself on a neighborhood or chase whatever is popular in the moment. It listens, contributes, and slowly becomes a place people cannot imagine the neighborhood without. Photo by Shelby Moore INTRODUCTION Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with Mackenzie Hoffman, co-owner and operator of Stir Crazy and a fixture in the LA food scene. She is here to share her five rules for creating a restaurant that feels timeless. She talks about the importance of tailoring each guest’s experience, especially when it comes to solo diners, the tips and tricks of staying earnest, and how to maintain your principles without compromise. It’s a great conversation for anyone who’s looking to open a place that can embed itself into the community or for anyone who’s been open for a few years and is looking to become an even bigger part of the neighborhood. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. BACKGROUND Mackenzie, always a pleasure to see you. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy day at Stir Crazy to sit down for the show. Incredibly honored to be here, Darin. Thank you so much for having me. My absolute pleasure. You literally went to school for food studies and nutrition, something that is rare in the restaurant world. What unique perspective do you feel it gave you in regards to hospitality? BY THE BOOKS The best way to describe the program was comprehensive. There was a culinary portion to it, there was a microbiology portion to it, food in the arts, food writing, a little business piece, accounting and whatnot. So it really gave me a comprehensive view of food, food systems, restaurants. And then being in New York City was incredible because just the access to being able to study something during the day and then go to my job or go out to eat, grab lunch somewhere. It was awesome. You were in New York at an incredible inflection point in the restaurant scene and you got to work with some of the great names of that time, Four Horsemen, Union Square Hospitality, Major Food Group. What did you learn from working in New York and Brooklyn restaurants that you still practice today? IN NEW YORK I get goosebumps thinking about it because 10, 15 years ago, we were trying to get this craft to catch on. Now, it’s just porn. People can’t get enough of it. Within the past 15 years of seeing restaurants grow and evolve, not just in our industry, but how they affect the world at large. It’s a global industry. The diaspora of all these other ideas and flavors, I feel like we won despite all the adversity, not just happening in localized from city to city and city, but also in the industry at large. I do think that this is a long game and I think that we’re going to win. You’ve been in the industry through incredible adversity like COVID, which affected the restaurant that you moved out to LA for, Onda, but you managed to stay in the game and eventually open up Stir Crazy. How did you take everything that you’d learned and put it into your own place? MAKING IT MY OWN I was fortunate enough to be part of restaurants in multiple different cities and seeing some really, really incredible people, professionals with their own long histories. It was almost like an anthropological view of a lot of different ways to do stuff, not just the how to do it and the what to do, but also why it was being done. I really got to see all the options in front of me and then take a look at my internal world and what my values were to shape that into a very personal perspective. RULE ONE: WELCOME SOLO GUESTS I love how you’ve taken your experiences, your studies, what you’ve learned from other people and put it into this unique restaurant, especially for LA, which is why I’m so excited for you to be sharing your five rules for creating a restaurant that feels timeless. For all the restaurants that I love, you can easily feel that hospitality is at the center of what they do. It’s not just about the big groups that come there for the special moments like birthdays and anniversaries. It’s for the people who just want to be out in the world, have a dinner, enjoy themselves, and this makes up your rule number one. My rule number one is welcome solo guests. Yes. To me, it’s a no-brainer and it also speaks about how creating a restaurant that feels timeless honors your neighborhood too. I always try to find ways to welcome and treasure guest experiences that are varied. Looking for those solo guests, such a great flag when they bring a book and feel comfortable to just linger and read. Number one. Yeah. The varied turn times also include bookending other experiences, dropping in for a pre-dinner bottle of wine before you have omakase or even finishing your night with us with a nightcap or even dessert after you went somewhere else. Not every experience that we offer is replicatable. Everyone is unique. The fact that guests can feel comfortable walking in is incredible. We have a 33% return guest rate. That’s amazing. Which in LA is mind-boggling. Month after month after month, I’m like, did I refresh the page? The number is the same. RULE TWO: STAY EARNEST When you are that welcoming to guests, when people keep returning, a lot of it radiates from staying sincere, having this open arms policy, and really catering to what people want, which now that you’ve been over three years is not the easiest thing to do. But your rule number two talks about the importance of this in creating a restaurant that feels timeless. Number two, stay earnest. So hard. There’s a couple of different tongs in my fork of earnesty. Sure. It’s a good reminder that to both your guests and yourself and your staff that food, wine, service, hospitality, they’re crafts. You’re allowed to be a nerd. You’re allowed to make this your career. You’re allowed to invest in yourself. That pride and that joy and that confidence is going to be contagious. And then ultimately, if you continue that with the way that you teach and the way that you serve and the way that you host and have gratitude while doing it, it’s a really, really great feedback loop. That is the importance of earnesty. RULE THREE: AVOID TRENDS. KEEP THINGS ANALOG. Being earnest from the start and knowing who you are allows you to put your best foot forward when And when Stir Crazy opened, I can say it. It was one of the most talked about and hottest restaurants for all of the right reasons. By not chasing this, it has allowed you to stay consistently well-respected and busy as your doors have been opened. What’s your rule number three? Rule number three is avoid trends. Keep things analog. This is my rule for the non-capitalist capitalist in me. You have to have a North Star. The big word here is intention. Yes, we were hot and cool and vibey when we opened, but I would say that the way that I approach growth, it’s a slow burn. It’s like embers in the fire. It’s really making sure that you’re stoking your heat and making sure that you’re giving yourself grace to fail sometimes and make wrong decisions and then always learn from them. Restaurants should always be a feeling. They should not be any bigger than one person inside them. You’re always going to harness something timeless if you’re reaching towards a feeling. Then the keeping things analog, this is just to not so much think forward in time, but also backwards in time. At Stir Crazy, we don’t have a lot of screens. We don’t have a phone. We don’t have a website. It’s almost as if time collapses on itself. Yes, we’ve been around for three years, but I hope that someone can enter our doors like a threshold to a portal and be transported. The transportative nature of Stir Crazy is what I find to feel timeless as well. RULE FOUR: BEFRIEND YOUR NEIGHBORS This ability to feel timeless, welcoming the community really is a key to keeping your doors open. By ingratiating yourself to these people, it’ll allow you to do so for years to come. What’s your rule number four? Rule number four, befriend your neighbors. So important. Restaurants need to understand that they have a sense of place. We have terroir. We don’t have to impose ourselves on the neighborhood and scream louder. We can just be more intentional in the things that we say and the things that we do. Don’t operate on an island. Get to know the people on either sides of you, your businesses. They probably have something to teach you, whether it be something about that crack in the sidewalk, something about that crosswalk. A timeless restaurant is not an imposition on the neighborhood. It is a seamless character that befriends a whole cast of people. RULE FIVE: MAINTAIN YOUR PRINCIPLES WITHOUT COMPROMISE Being able to truly

    Mackenzie Hoffman

  6. Jul 27

    Greg Baxtrom

    Greg's Five Rules for Getting Your Life Back on Track Greg Baxtrom is the chef and owner of 5 Acres in Rockefeller Center and the author of Nothing Matters but Delicious: A Radically Honest Cookbook about food, alcoholism, recovery, and rebuilding a life. In this deeply personal conversation, Greg shares his Five Rules for Getting Your Life Back on Track. Together, we talk about the long road to sobriety, the daily work of becoming reliable again, and how cooking helped him begin accumulating the days that eventually became a new life. These conversations are important because no one should have to struggle alone. Hearing Greg speak so openly about his lowest moments, the people who helped him, and the work he continues to do offers more than hope—it reveals a path forward. Recovery does not happen all at once, and it does not always move in a straight line. Sometimes it begins with telling the truth, asking for help, or simply doing the one thing you said you would do that day. Wherever you are in that process, be patient and kind to yourself. You are not alone, and change is possible. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m chatting with Greg Baxtrom, the chef and owner at Five Acres in Rockefeller Center, and the author of Nothing Matters but Delicious, a radically honest cookbook, out now on 10 Speed Press. He’s here to share his five rules for getting your life back on track. He talks about the importance of telling the truth, the necessity of building a routine you can actually keep, and that by being patient and kind to yourself is the key to real change. This conversation, along with his cookbook, are deep explorations of Greg’s struggle with alcoholism, his journey through recovery, and how he’s put his life back together. It is a great conversation for anyone who is going through similar struggles or for anyone looking for a insight to understand those who are. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Greg, so good to see you. Opening Congratulations on the book and Five Acres. Thanks for making time for the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I love the book and it starts off with a very powerful introduction where you talk about living your life in two unequal parts. How much has the concept of balance played a part in your life? I mean, there was none until recently. Sure. Even now, I’m not that great at it. I mean, I’m pretty great at being sober. I don’t have near misses and stuff, but I’m probably on day 55 straight of no days off. Right. Still a work in progress. I take things like going to bed at a specific time. I try to be in bed by 10 o’clock every day. It’s pretty good. I try to wake up and have a coffee. I still have some non-negotiables, but there are ones that get tossed out the window still. I’ll go through a phase of like, now I’m vegan and I’m starting off with a five-day fast and I’m signing up for my trainer. Yeah. So that lasts like four days. And right now I haven’t really been going to the gym because I’ve been coming here every day to just kind of make this new thing land well and represent what we try to do. Yeah. You know, I prioritize my family more. I also just go to Chicago more. I wouldn’t even consider going for a holiday in the past. And now I try to go home for birthdays. I prioritize that a little bit more. A cookbook like yours, nothing matters but delicious, usually comes out as a celebratory, usually four or five-year mark of a restaurant, which was Olmstead. You closed the restaurant last year. The book just came out and a lot of what delayed the book was life happening around it. How do you feel about its release now? It was hard for me to even write the book in the first place. I eventually became acquainted and friendly with Joshua David Stein. And I had other avenues to go down. There were big publishers that wanted a great big Olmstead book. They would make it as beautiful as I wanted and as cheffy as I wanted. Yeah. I was basically told it wouldn’t sell but it would look pretty. Sure. As vain and egotistical as I am to have a nice pretty book, I really didn’t want to do something that from the get-go wouldn’t be even attempt to be successful. I’m dyslexic and I have ADHD. It took Josh to literally lay on my couch while I just talked and cooked and would just type as I was doing stuff. Yeah. I wanted it to be accessible. Yes, there’s some Olmstead stuff in there. A lot of the recipes are when I went to rehab the second time because the first time it didn’t really take. There was no getting another shot. I woke up at eight. I walked my dog, got my juice. Right. I made my coffee and I went to the farmer’s market as often as I could to make just enough food for myself that night. I was just accumulating days. So a lot of the recipes in the book are just what I cooked to get to 90 days. Many people would not open a cookbook so honestly with tales of their own addictions and their lows battling alcoholism, let alone shape the recipes and stories within these pages. Why did you want this to be a fundamental of the book which you call a radically honest cookbook? I don’t want bipolar sober chef on my tombstone. I don’t want to be remembered for that. I dedicated 20-25 years to doing this thing. I still love it, but I unraveled. I wanted to be on solid ground again through instructions from my doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists. I had been documenting my time in rehab the first time and then the second time. I have a first-hand 20-30 page document of basically what it was like getting sober that I’ve never really done anything with and I just took a chunk of it out and I decided to put that into the book. I wanted to move on. I’m not afraid of doing the work of getting sober, becoming reliable again. I’m all for that. I just want to set the tone again. Hopefully, I can get back to, okay, Greg’s back to being reliable and talented. The fact that you are willing to put in the work, the fact that you have the opportunity to do so, the fact that you’ve been so honest about it makes me so excited for you to share your five rules for getting your life back on track. Rule One: Tell the Truth In the introduction, you lean into what it was like to go home into Chicago, to having to start lying about what you were doing with your life and how you’re spending your time. Yeah. Your first rule talks about the importance of moving in the other direction. What’s your rule number one? You gotta just tell the truth. At that point, I knew I was a mess and I knew I was a drunk and I was miserable and lonely and sad and suicidal, but no one really knew that. People just saw that I was drinking more. Yeah. I would hide in the employee bathroom and drink. I felt like I was still involved in there and around the people that I liked and admired and so when I went to Chicago, I think my parents just sort of and my family assumed I was stressed and drinking. Eventually, I got a DUI and my father came and picked me up. I jumped out of the moving car. Wow. I’m named after my dad’s brother who got hit by a drunk driver. Yeah. I was so uncomfortable and miserable. Sure. The next day, my sister finds me and she’s like, look, I don’t think this is just run-of-the-mill hereditary alcoholism. I think there’s something else there. I think you should go to the hospital, not just straight to rehab again. That was the first time that I felt hope. I was miserable. I didn’t want to be this way. I knew there was a problem from the get-go and I didn’t want it. That doctor and a team of people were like, you’re on all the wrong medication. Basically, we believe you’re bipolar and we need to put you on all new medication. Yeah. From there, once I was on all the new medication, then I was transferred to a different type of rehab. The property was so big, they didn’t even care if you left to go camping for a couple of days because you weren’t going to go anywhere. There was just thousands of acres. I got to be out in nature while accumulating those first couple of days being sober. With that opening up, there was a woman in my life who really took care of me, who happened to be a nurse. Then, there was also my sister who’s a doctor. Without them, for sure, I would not be here right now. Rule Two: Accept That You Don’t Have All the Answers Going through all of that, having to look inwards sometimes can be a very hard awakening, but it does lead you to accept that you don’t have this, which is your rule number two. My rule number two is to accept that you don’t have all the answers. I am a reliable person when I’m not a drunk. My intentions are good. In the very beginning, you’re like, you just need to be 30 days sober, and then you’ll be able to recalibrate and go back to a beer a day. Eventually, you break down. You go, okay, it’s three months, and then it’s six months, and then it’s a year. It’s a long time before you go, okay, fine. I get it. I won’t be able to drink again. I went to Smart Recovery, Wellbriety, NA, AA. I just wanted to be fixed, and I was willing to do it. Rule Three: Get Professional Help The more you can be honest and open up, some people, how they’re communicating to you is going to click. Once you’ve accepted that you don’t have all the answers and you start listening to other people in your life and build a support system, that’s really important on a personal level. At the end of the day, your rule number three talks about looking to these other types of people for guidance. What’s your third rule? Getting professional help. The people in my life tried their best. Everybody was for me going to AA meetings, for me getting a psychiatrist, but the sadness in me was not going away, though. I didn’t want to exist anymore. It required consistent medical observation. Even whe

    Greg Baxtrom

  7. Jul 20

    Ji Hye Kim

    Ji Hye's Five Rules for How to Make a Delicious Korean Meal at Home For many home cooks, Korean food is something they love to eat but feel intimidated to make. In this episode, Ji Hye Kim, the chef, owner, and managing partner of Miss Kim and Little Kim in Ann Arbor, shares her Five Rules How to Make a Delicious Korean Meal at Home. She talks about making the cooking feel approachable without stripping away what makes it special. From building a thoughtful pantry to understanding the role of banchan, the stories behind iconic dishes, and ultimately finding the confidence to make them your own, Ji Hye offers a roadmap that is as practical as it is inspiring. Whether you’re making your first batch of tteokbokki or simply looking to bring new flavors into your kitchen, these are lessons that will stay with you long after dinner is over. I love this episode because it reminds me that learning something new almost always begins with a little uncertainty. Picking up an unfamiliar cuisine asks you to invest your time, your curiosity, and yes, a little money as you stock a new pantry or hunt down ingredients you’ve never used before. But the return on that investment lasts a lifetime. Once you understand the flavors, the techniques, and the stories behind a cuisine, they become part of the way you cook, the way you think, and the way you see the world. Every new dish becomes another connection to another culture, and every meal you make afterward is a little richer because you were willing to take that first step. Five Rules for the Good Life with Ji Hye Kim How to Make a Delicious Korean Meal at Home Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m in Ann Arbor, Michigan, chatting with Ji Hye Kim, who is the chef, owner, and managing partner of Miss Kim and Little Kim. She’s here to share her five rules for how to make a delicious Korean meal at home. She talks about the importance of putting together an essential Korean ingredient pantry, that understanding the essence of a dish elevates what you want to make, and with enough practice, you can make any Korean dish your own. It is a great conversation for anyone who’s wanted to cook more Korean food at home or has been enticed to introduce new flavors to their cooking at large. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Growing Up in Seoul Ji Hye, so nice to meet you all the way from Ann Arbor. I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me for the show. I am so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. You were born and raised in Seoul. What are some of the dishes from your childhood that still ground you today? Oh my god, so many because my mom was the best cook in the family and that reputation has not changed even now. Even with your own restaurant? No, absolutely not. I cannot take the title from her. She is still the absolutely the best and she cooked everything from scratch. But what I remember is tteokbokki. It’s the quintessential Korean street food. My mom forbade me from eating it because she called it a delinquent food which made me want it more. Of course. I remember sneaking out milk boxes and trading it with the street vendor and eating it behind my mom’s back and then coming home for a full Korean meal. That really stayed with me because it was the first independent decision I made about the food. I now have three or four different kinds of tteokbokki on rotation at my restaurant at Miss Kim at any given moment. Those original food memories and adventures always stick with you. Yeah. You wound up leaving Seoul and eventually landing in Ann Arbor, getting into the food world through Zingerman’s. Correct. What surprised you the most about the culinary offerings of the Midwest? The amazing array of vegetables. It’s not necessarily the same vegetables that I would have used if I lived in There are enough similarities and it actually pushes you to be more creative. Taking what my mother and my ancestors gave me and adapt that with my neighbor farmer’s beets or Jerusalem artichoke or lots of corn. And that’s actually been really fun marrying that together. You opened up your first restaurant Miss Kim in 2016 in partnership with Zingerman’s. How did you want to bring your two worlds together from what you grew up eating with in Seoul and what you discovered in the farms of the Midwest? I had an office job after graduating. I just found it incredibly not inspiring. Sure. I took a huge pay cut on nothing but a gut feeling. I started working for Zingerman’s and it’s known for Jewish Reuben sandwiches. Yes. What I loved was the cheese I told everybody I got cheese for a living. It really stayed with me because I would meet a Basque cheese maker who had me taste their one cheese that’s made in different season or age different month. Really learn about traditional food making and it started having me really wonder what it would be like if I dug in the same way with Korean food. Really connected with artisans or gave that much thought to the dishes origin story. That’s how I started looking at Korean food more professionally than just a casual eater. From what my parents gave me. From there it slowly morphed into a desire to bring my Korean upbringing and putting roots in Midwestern soil and bring my Korean food to Ann Arbor. There were Korean food in Ann Arbor before. I love that you wanted to bring your approach to Korean food to Ann Arbor both in the restaurant and educating people about their favorite dishes and what goes into it which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules on how to make a delicious Korean meal at home. Yeah. Rule #1: Build a Great Korean Pantry A lot of the times when you get into a new cultures culinary practices you start by trying to substitute what you already have at home with the ingredients that are listed in the recipe. Absolutely. And while you might not want to go out and replace everything it is important that you do get a good foundation which ties directly into your rule number one. You have to rely on a great basic pantry items for Korean food. Those are soy sauces, doenjang which is soy paste, gochujang which is chili paste. Those three sauces are often known as Korean mother sauces. Gochugaru which is chili flakes, sesame seed, and sesame oil. Those are the must-haves that’s difficult to substitute. Once you get kind of used to you can level up and bring in Korean fish sauces or fermented shrimp or fermented plum syrup, perilla oil, perilla seeds. But you need to at least have the basic pantries that will get you through majority of dishes that you want to try if you’re a first-time Korean food maker. Rule #2: Find the Korean Equivalent If you are making Korean food for the first time you could get very intimidated by looking at all these dishes and thinking that you have no reference point. But when you dig down you start to see that many dishes from Korea have similar counterparts in America. Understanding that relationship makes up your rule number two. It’s the details that makes us different but we eat really similarly if you look at the bigger picture. Korean food have kalguksu which means knife cut noodles. Italians have tali-tali which is cut noodles. If you’re really comfortable grilling start with Korean barbecue. If you are comfortable with braising there is galbijjim or whole array of Korean stews that you can go with. Don’t start with 50 heads of napa cabbage and into a gigantic batch of napa kimchi because even if you succeed you still cannot make a whole meal out of just kimchi anyway. Rule #3: Understand the Korean Table When cooking Korean food there are some fundamentals to each of the dish when it comes to flavor and how you approach them. Every culture has this. Korean food has its own unique approach as well which is your rule number three. You have to understand how Korean table works. A typical Korean table would include rice. Some main dishes like galbi which would be a meat-based dish or soups and stews. The most important thing that rounds everything out is an array of banchan. Banchan is often translated as side dish but it’s so much more. So much more. It’s the best. I can just make a meal out of banchan and rice even. Same. Those are oftentimes many different kind of kimchi, many kind of pickle, fried egg or a little fried fish or many different kinds. You cannot just have rice and beef because that’s off balance for a Korean table. You need to have some sort of acidity. Because Korean table is almost set up like choose your own adventure with banchan and has so much faith in the eater. The eater decides I’m going to eat a little rice with the lettuce wrap and the sauce then I’m definitely going to have kimchi because kimchi is a must-have. If you don’t want to make 12 different kind of banchan and a gigantic Korean You just need to remember not to skip acidity and not to skip some fresh crunch. Rule #4: Understand the Dish Knowing the rules of the flavor is one thing but all these dishes take on a deeper meaning when you understand their origins which makes up your rule number four. You have to understand the dish. You have to understand the story behind the dish and how it has evolved. Yeah. That will actually make things more tasty. Yeah. It would make it more tasty for you to understand that K-pop demon hunters didn’t create tteokbokki. Tteokbokki was an existing dish that has a long history but it became a quintessential street food only in the 60s. If you know that there’s more intrigue to the dish and you will understand the soul of the dish better. More practical advice. You have the recipe. It’s not something you cooked before. Read it from top to bottom at least once. You follow the recipe just as it’s written at least once before you start going off of fusioning and I think that would be a good starting point. Rule #5: Put Your Own Stamp on It Onc

    Ji Hye Kim

  8. Jul 13

    Breanne Kostyk

    Breanne's Five Rules for Making Sandwiches This week I’m joined by Breanne Kostyk, the co-owner and head baker of Flour Moon Bagels in New Orleans, to talk about her Five Rules for Making Sandwiches. From choosing great bread and never settling for a dry sandwich to building texture, height, and balance into every bite, Breanne breaks down what separates a forgettable lunch from one you’ll think about for the rest of the day. Whether you’re packing a picnic, heading to the beach, or just making lunch at home, this conversation is a reminder that even the simplest foods deserve care and attention. I’ve always believed there’s an art to making a great sandwich. It isn’t just about stacking ingredients between two slices of bread—it’s about creating something that feels complete. Every choice matters: the bread, the crunch, the sauce, the balance of salt, acid, fat, and freshness. A great sandwich can be comforting, nostalgic, and deeply satisfying all at once. Breanne approaches sandwiches with the same level of craft that a chef brings to a composed plate, and I love that philosophy. It reminds us that everyday cooking is full of opportunities to make something thoughtful, generous, and memorable. Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m down in the Big Easy talking shop with Breanne Kostyk, the co-owner and head baker of Flour Moon Bagels. She shares her five rules for making sandwiches. She talks about the importance of choosing good quality bread, how there is nothing worse than a dry sandwich, and that by building for height and balancing flavors, you’ll be able to craft the perfect sandwich anytime you step into the kitchen. It’s a great conversation for the summertime. If you’re packing a picnic or out on the road and you want to bring your own food, there is nothing better than a homemade sandwich. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. Breanne, it is so nice to meet you. Thank you for taking some time out of your busy baking schedule. Welcome to Five Rules. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Darin. I’m really excited to be here with you. There is something so personal about a sandwich. Why does almost everyone have such a deep relationship with them? Sandwiches are so nostalgic. They’re the first thing your mom packs in your lunchbox going to school, your summer vacations on the beach, and just having a sandwich packed in the cooler for you after a day of swimming. What I love about sandwiches is it’s everything within the bread. It’s the whole meal in one handheld bite. New York is arguably America’s launching point for bagels and the bagel sandwich. What makes this form of bread such a perfect delivery system for a sando? A bagel has that crunchy exterior and the chewiness is really something you can sink your teeth into, which is really satisfying. You can fill it with anything. Any possibilities—not just cream cheese and salmon—but we really take it to that lunch sandwich that you would like. When you started Flour Moon Bagels in New Orleans, why did you want to bring the New York-inspired style to the city? I grew up in Connecticut, I went to school in New York, and I ended up moving south after the recession. I’ve been there. I ended up in the South, so I really missed that bagel that I used to get right down the street from my campus. I had been a fine dining pastry chef for ten years prior to starting Flour Moon Bagels. I worked for the Ace Hotel in New Orleans. There, I started experimenting with bagel recipes. Over the years, that recipe evolved. I just wanted to keep on improving it. We had so many visitors from out of town, specifically New York, and they were just surprised that this hotel bagel was actually really good. The fact that you have been able to develop a New York-style bagel that impresses New Yorkers is nothing short of incredible, which makes me so excited for you. That dedication to perfecting that bagel style really shows your dedication to the craft and ties directly into your first rule. Rule #1: Choose Good Quality Bread What’s your rule number one? Rule number one: choose good quality bread. Pick something up from your local bakery. You want something super, super fresh. If you get something just at the grocery store, you don’t know how long ago that was made or how long it’s been sitting on the shelves. I really love nice focaccia, something really hearty, rustic sourdough, bagels, or baguettes. Something that, when you bite into it, bounces back in your mouth. Something also with a nice crumb to it because then it’ll soak up everything—all that flavor in your sandwich. Having great bread is the foundation of a great sandwich, but I can sometimes forgive bad bread and sometimes I can ignore less-than-quality turkey. What I can’t excuse is a dry sandwich, which is a big part of your rule number two. Rule #2: A Sauce Is Mandatory Rule number two: a sauce is mandatory. Full stop. Nobody likes a dry sandwich. Mayonnaise, aioli, mustards, olive oil—there are just so many possibilities that you can add to your sandwich to give it flavor and make it not dry. You can get creative. You can do salsa verdes. I really like jams or mostardas, especially with really salty Italian meat. I think that’s one of my favorite go-to combos. Love it. That’s one of my formulas if I’m running specials: salty meat and something sweet and acidic. I just love that. I would say one to two sauces are great, but once you hit three, your sandwich might get a little too wet. Dry is a shonda. Soggy is a crime because that could have been prevented. You talk about flavors that play off each other—salty and sweet—and this idea of mixing different types of elements in a sandwich is a great way to make a successful one. That brings us to your third rule. Rule #3: Add Texture Rule number three: add textures to your sandwich. You want crunchy, hearty greens. If you’re putting veggies on that sandwich, I recommend slicing them thick so they have a little bit of crunch. I love anything pickled. Just your standard pickle. Pickled hot peppers are really delicious. Then you can also get crunch with bacon. We all are familiar with adding potato chips to a sandwich, which is pretty classic, but you can even think beyond the chips. Maybe it’s crispy shallots. We recently ran a special that was a pork roulade, and we put crunchy chicharrones all crushed up on there. It just adds a little bit extra. Once you’ve landed on the elements you want for your sandwich, understanding how to physically lay everything out is quite the art, which ties directly into your rule number four. Rule #4: Add Height Rule number four: add height to your sandwich. Make it visually appealing. I have this theory that if I’ve eaten too much and I need to digest my food, I scroll Instagram and I look at pictures of food. It makes me think that I’m hungry. You want to fold your meat and stack it so that visually it’s layered higher. Then stack it with some colorful items too. You don’t want just beige on beige. You don’t want just turkey and white cheese. Add vegetables that have color to them. Color and height—you look at that, and that’s really appetizing to me. Once you understand all the fundamentals—the bread, the sauces, the contrasting textures, the layering of the sandwich—you’ve really started to master everything that goes into making the perfect sandwich. Your fifth and final rule deals with something that people actually forget, but this core fundamental is something you should never ignore when making the perfect sandwich. Rule #5: Create a Balance of Flavors What’s your rule number five? Rule number five: create a balance of your flavors. Yes—salt, fat, acid, umami, sometimes heat or sweet, maybe combining the heat and the sweet. A sandwich should really be a vessel to hit all of those notes that you crave and leave you wanting nothing more after you’ve eaten that sandwich. Closing Breanne, thank you so much for sharing your five rules for making sandwiches. If people want to visit Flour Moon Bagels, learn more about what you’re making, or check out what I assume are daily sandwich specials posted to Instagram, where can they go? How can they see what you’re up to? Yeah, you can visit us at @fllourmoonbagels on Instagram. If you’re in New Orleans—I know it’s not a po’boy, it’s not a beignet—but we’ve got some great bagels in New Orleans. If you’re down here, please stop and visit us. Amazing. Well, I can’t wait to swing through New Orleans and grab a bagel the next time I’m in town. All right, thank you. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    Breanne Kostyk
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Five rules for the good life and other tips for living well as told by those who made it their business to do so. fiverules.substack.com

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