The Sussex And The City Podcast Episode #69 Is Wales Showing Sussex How To Do Devolution Differently? Host: Richard Freeman Guest: Jane Davidson – former Welsh Government minister, author and sustainability leader Episode summary What if the decisions we make about Sussex today had to take account of people who won't be born for another fifty years? As the Sussex and Brighton Strategic Authority prepares to agree its draft prosperity strategy, it's a particularly timely question. The decisions being made now about housing, transport, infrastructure, investment and economic development could shape the region for generations. But how do we make sure those decisions are about more than short-term economic growth? And what might Sussex learn from somewhere that's already tried to change the way government thinks? Our guest this week is Jane Davidson, a former Welsh Government minister who helped put sustainable development and the wellbeing of future generations at the heart of public decision-making in Wales. Jane spent more than a decade in government, introducing the UK's first charge for single-use carrier bags, helping transform Wales's approach to recycling, and developing policies that would eventually contribute to one of the most distinctive pieces of legislation in modern British government. The Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 requires Welsh public bodies to consider the long-term social, economic, environmental and cultural consequences of their decisions. The idea is that Government shouldn't improve life for people today by making life worse for the people who come after us. But turning that principle into something that actually changes decisions is considerably more complicated. Jane explains how Wales moved from a general commitment to sustainable development towards legal duties, seven national wellbeing goals and five ways of working: long-term thinking, prevention, integration, collaboration and involvement. And it's that final principle that she keeps coming back to. The people affected by decisions should be involved in making them. We explore how Wales developed its approach, why good intentions aren't enough without mechanisms for delivery, and what happened when businesses, universities, communities and politicians began working towards a shared ambition. There are some fascinating examples along the way, from carrier bag charges and recycling targets to the Welsh businesses experimenting with giving nature and future generations a formal voice in corporate decisions. For Sussex, the comparison raises some important questions. Our new strategic authority is developing a prosperity strategy before the election of its first mayor. It has an opportunity to establish principles that will guide future investment, but it also faces the challenge of bringing together communities, institutions and places that haven't always thought of themselves as part of one region. And unlike Wales, Sussex won't have its own national legislature or the same powers to impose statutory duties. So how much of the Welsh approach could we adopt voluntarily? Could the strategic authority commit to a shared definition of prosperity that includes health, fairness, nature and resilience alongside economic performance? Could businesses, universities, councils and community organisations adopt similar principles? And could we develop a genuinely distinctive Sussex way of making decisions, rather than simply giving familiar approaches a new regional label? Jane is clear that Wales hasn't got everything right. But its experience demonstrates that long-term change is possible when ambition is supported by practical structures, public participation and a willingness to learn. She also reminds us that devolution is only the starting point. What matters is what people choose to do with the powers and opportunities available to them. This is a conversation about systems thinking, democracy, sustainable development, prosperity, intergenerational fairness and the possibilities of devolution. And perhaps the biggest question is whether Sussex can build a shared vision that belongs not just to its future mayor or strategic authority, but to the people who live and work here. Because the future of Sussex is being shaped now. And the people who will inherit it deserve a place in the conversation. A production note: this conversation was originally recorded several months ago, but a technical mishap meant that part of the recording had to be reconstructed. Jane generously returned to record the missing section, so listeners may notice a slight change in the audio partway through. -- This episode is brought to you by Be Business Energy Wise Be Business Energy Wise is a fully funded programme helping East Sussex businesses take control of energy costs and make smarter sustainability decisions. Businesses can access free practical one-to-one support, detailed on-site energy assessments where eligible, and workshops covering energy efficiency, sustainability marketing and reducing waste through the circular economy. You don't need an existing sustainability strategy or specialist knowledge. The programme helps businesses understand where they are now, what could make a difference and what's worth doing next. Be Business Energy Wise is funded by the Sussex and Brighton Strategic Authority and East Sussex County Council, managed by East Sussex County Council and delivered by Always Possible. Find out more at alwayspossible.co.uk/be-business-energy-wise. In this episode Jane's journey from teaching and youth work into politics and systems change How Wales pioneered the UK's single-use carrier bag charge The policies that helped transform Welsh recycling Why sustainable development needs legal duties, not simply good intentions The origins of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 The seven national wellbeing goals and what they mean for prosperity The five ways of working: long-term thinking, prevention, integration, collaboration and involvement Why involving people in decisions is essential to lasting change How the UN Sustainable Development Goals influenced the Welsh approach What Sussex could learn from Wales without having the same legislative powers The opportunities presented by the Sussex and Brighton prosperity strategy Why businesses might give nature and future generations a formal voice The importance of cross-party support and shared long-term ambitions Donella Meadows and the principles of effective systems change What a genuinely distinctive Sussex way of working might look like About the guest Jane Davidson is a former Welsh Government minister, author and internationally recognised advocate for sustainable development and the wellbeing of future generations. She served in the Welsh Government from 2000 to 2011, holding ministerial responsibilities for education, the environment, sustainability and housing. During this period, she introduced pioneering environmental policies, including the UK's first charge for single-use carrier bags, and helped establish the foundations of Wales's long-term approach to sustainable development. Her work contributed to the development of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, which places sustainable development duties on public bodies and has attracted international interest. Following her political career, Jane became Pro Vice-Chancellor at the University of Wales Trinity Saint David, where she worked to embed sustainability in education and institutional practice. She has also chaired the Wales Net Zero 2035 Challenge Group. She is the author of #futuregen: Lessons from a Small Country, which explores how Wales developed its approach to legislating for the interests of future generations, and what other places can learn from that experience. Links and further reading Jane Davidson's website – her work on sustainability, systems change and future generations. #futuregen: Lessons from a Small Country – Jane's book about the development of Wales's pioneering legislation. The Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act – Welsh Government's explanation of the legislation and its seven wellbeing goals. Future Generations Commissioner for Wales – practical resources, examples and guidance on applying the Act, including the five ways of working. Wales Net Zero 2035 – the independent challenge group chaired by Jane, including its reports on pathways towards net zero. United Nations Sustainable Development Goals – the international framework that helped inform the Welsh approach. Faith in Nature – the Welsh business discussed in the episode for giving nature a voice in company decision-making. House of Hackney – the business discussed for incorporating nature and future generations into its governance. Sussex and Brighton Strategic Authority – information about devolution and the region's developing strategic priorities. Sussex Intelligence Unit – independent research on prosperity, infrastructure, governance and belonging across Sussex. Production credits Host: Richard Freeman Guest: Jane Davidson Sound design, editing and original music: Chris Thorpe-Tracey, Lo-Fi Arts Production management: Letitia McConalogue, Always Possible Get involved sussexandthecity.info – episodes, resources, events and more about devolution and change across Sussex. sussexintelligence.com – independent research and evidence-led insight into growth, infrastructure, governance and belonging across Sussex.
