Ill Conceived

Josh Boerman & June Sternbach

A podcast about natalism. Hosted by Josh Boerman (The Worst of All Possible Worlds, Traditional Scrench) and June Sternbach (Kill The Computer, The Onion).

  1. Jeffrey Epstein

    8H AGO

    Jeffrey Epstein

    On January 30, the U.S. Department of Justice released over 3 million pages of new information about Jeffrey Epstein. Among these documents are thousands of new emails detailing Epstein's links to technologists and academics in the world of evolutionary biology, eugenics, and artificial intelligence. This week, Josh and June dig into the history of Epstein's connections with these people and discuss how his bizarre plans for his own offspring reflect the ideas and objectives of the tech natalist agenda. ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON! Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: Jeffrey Epstein, the disgraced financier and human trafficker, wearing a Harvard university sweatshirt. One month after being indicted on federal child sex trafficking charges in 2019, Epstein was found dead in his jail cell, leaving his likely thousands of victims without justice for the crimes he committed. SOURCES: “Harvard closes evolution center after finding connections to Jeffrey Epstein” by Edward Helmore (The Guardian, March 27, 2021) “Martin Nowak Sanctioned for Jeffrey Epstein Involvement” by Lydialyle Gibson (Harvard Magazine, March 25, 2021) “How Jeffrey Epstein Captivated Harvard” by Michael Massing (The Nation, July 24, 2023) Harvard report concerning Jeffrey Epstein’s connections to Harvard University  “Professor Corina Tarnita on the Epstein Files: ‘I Wish I Had Never Known Him’” by Lia Opperman (Princeton Alumni Weekly, February 10, 2026) “Jeffrey Epstein Raked In $200 Million After Legal and Financial Crises” by Matthew Goldstein and Steve Eder (The New York Times, October 3, 2019) “Epstein files reveal deeper ties to scientists than previously known” by Dan Garisto (Nature, February 6, 2026) Epstein testimony before the Economic Development Commission, USVI “Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery” by Landon Thomas Jr. (New York Magazine, October 28, 2002) “Jeffrey Epstein files shed light on ties to Santa Fe Institute scientists” by Clara Bates (Santa Fe New Mexican, February 11, 2026) “Jeffrey Epstein E-mails Reveal Depth of Ties to High-Profile Scientists” by Dan Vergano (Scientific American, November 13, 2025) “The DIY designer baby project funded with Bitcoin” by Antonio Regalado (MIT Technology Review, February 1, 2019) “Jeffrey Epstein Hoped to Seed Human Race With His DNA” by James B. Stewart, Matthew Goldstein and Jessica Silver-Greenberg (The New York Times, July 31, 2019) “Why did Jeffrey Epstein cultivate famous scientists?” by Dan Vergano (Scientific American, January 20, 2026) “Jeffrey Epstein had a 'Frankenstein'-like plan to analyze human DNA in the US Virgin Islands, and it reportedly pulled in $200 million” by Erin Brodwin (Business Insider, October 4, 2019) “Texas GOP politician Don Huffines plans Christian retreat at Zorro Ranch” by Clara Bates (Santa Fe New Mexican, February 16, 2026) “Former MIT scientist funded by Epstein made racist and sexist claims in private emails” by Kate Selig (Boston Globe, November 21, 2025) “New Mexico House unanimously enacts Epstein ‘truth commission’” by Danielle Prokop (Source NM, February 16, 2026) “How Jeffrey Epstein Bought His Way Into An Exclusive Intellectual Boys Club” by Peter Aldhous (Buzzfeed News, September 26, 2019) “How Epstein Infiltrated the Silicon Valley Network Behind Trump’s New Tech Order” by Nafeez Ahmed (Byline Times, December 3, 2025) “How Epstein Channelled Race Science and ‘Climate Culling’ Into Silicon Valley’s AI Elite” by Nafeez Ahmed (Byline Times, December 5, 2025) DIRECT LINKS TO EPSTEIN FILES QUOTED IN THIS EPISODE: Exchange between Epstein and Stephen Kosslyn where Epstein requests the name of a psychologist for a 15-year-old girl Epstein’s pitch to Martin Nowak for “commercial evolution” Nowak’s first reply Nowak’s second reply Nowak’s third reply Exchange between Nowak and Epstein about “a polish beauty” Exchange between Nowak and Epstein about a “captured spy” Exchange between Nowak and Epstein concerning Nowak’s “Korean friend” Exchange between Nowak's assistant, Epstein, and Epstein's accountant concerning a wire of $10,000 to "the girl from Romania" Journal that appears to document a young woman’s experience as a “human incubator” for Epstein FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

    1h 48m
  2. Surrogacy

    FEB 7

    Surrogacy

    An increasingly popular childbirth option for couples who cannot easily naturally conceive is to utilize a surrogate who gestates and births the pregnancy on behalf of the intended parents. And as of late, surrogacy is also being used by some especially wealthy people, particularly in the tech industry, as a way for them to avoid pregnancy altogether. This week, June and Josh look at the history of surrogacy, the moral disagreements among the religious right about the practice, and some of the ethical and legal complications that can result. ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON! Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: Cindy Bi, a venture capitalist who attempted to give birth via surrogacy. When the pregnancy resulted in a stillbirth, Bi sued her surrogate and went to the press to disparage her further. AUDIO CLIPS: 1:15:47 – Epic Church promotional "About Us" video 1:22:49 – Ben Pilgreen, pastor of Epic Church, delivering a sermon called "What Maturity Demands" SOURCES: Man into Woman: An Authentic Record of a Change of Sex (1933) The History of Surrogacy: A Legal Timeline Baby M and the Question of Surrogate Motherhood Surrogacy Laws: The Best States For Compensated Surrogacy Severe Maternal and Neonatal Morbidity Among Gestational Carriers: A Cohort Study Americans want biological children but prefer adoption to surrogacy The Difference Between Love and Surrogacy Gestational Surrogacy Success Rates Common issues with surrogacy and IVF Surrogates 20 years on: long-term psychological health, contact with surrogacy families, and thoughts and feelings about post-birth contact The Baby Died. Whose Fault Is It? The billionaire obsession with surrogacy Christianity Was “Borderline Illegal” in Silicon Valley. Now It’s the New Religion The Chinese Billionaires Having Dozens of U.S.-Born Babies Via Surrogate Artificial womb robot promises cheap surrogacy but sparks deep ethical fears Silicon Valley wants to help me make a superbaby. Should I let it? Suggestion to use brain stem dead women's bodies for surrogate pregnancies sparks huge backlash Regulation of Genetic Tests Perspectives on Surrogate Motherhood FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

    1h 39m
  3. Peter Thiel

    JAN 23

    Peter Thiel

    Big data controls our lives like never before, and few people are more responsible than Peter Thiel, the billionaire cofounder of Palantir who made the bulk of his fortune by investing early in Facebook. But it turns out that beyond his obsession with data, Thiel is equally fixated on the end times, the rise of the Antichrist, and the recent trend of declining birth rates in the West. This week, Josh and June try to figure out why Peter Thiel has the worldview he does and how it bears out in his investments in natalist technology. CHECK OUT OUR RECENT PODCAST GUEST APPEARANCES! June on A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein talking with Ashley St. Clair about her history with, and regrets about, the right-wing propaganda machine  Josh on Have You Seen This? talking about the movie Catch My Soul Josh on Reserved Recommendations talking about the Christian musical group Newsboys ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON! Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: Peter Thiel in a 2016 address to the Republican National Convention. Born in Germany, Thiel spent the bulk of his childhood in an apartheid settlement in South West Africa. After graduating from Stanford and briefly attempting a career in law, Thiel co-founded PayPal, Palantir and numerous venture capital funds, also making a critical early investment in Facebook that now represents the core of his fortune. AUDIO CLIPS: 59:59 – Peter Thiel talks about the Antichrist in a Mercatus Center interview about political theology 1:24:12 – Peter Thiel talks about demographic collapse in an episode of The Joe Rogan Experience FURTHER READING: "The Real Stakes, and Real Story, of Peter Thiel’s Antichrist Obsession" by Laura Bullard (Wired, September 30, 2025) SOURCES: "No Death, No Taxes" by George Packer (The New Yorker, November 20, 2011) "How the roots of the ‘PayPal mafia’ extend to apartheid South Africa" by Chris McGreal (The Guardian, January 26, 2025) "South‐West Africa City Remains ‘More German Than Germany’" by Henry Kamm (The New York Times, October 30, 1976) "Quote of the Day: PayPal Co-Founder on Sullivan & Cromwell Stint" (Bloomberg, May 24, 2016) "Peter Thiel is totally gay, people" by Owen Thomas (Gawker, December 19, 2007) "What Does Palantir Actually Do?" by Caroline Haskins (Wired, August 11, 2025) "‘ELITE’: The Palantir App ICE Uses to Find Neighborhoods to Raid" by Joseph Cox (404 Media, January 15, 2026) "Jeffrey Epstein Invested With Peter Thiel, and His Estate Is Reaping Millions" by Matthew Goldstein (The New York Times, June 4, 2025) "Concern Grows Around Billionaire Peter Thiel’s Period-Tracking App" by Maggie Harrison Dupré (Futurism, September 11, 2022) "Surveillance Titan Peter Thiel Invests Millions in New Anti-Feminist Menstrual Tracking App" by Kylie Cheung (Jezebel, September 6, 2022) "Would You Wear a Period-Tracker Funded by Peter Thiel?" by Jessica Valenti & Kylie Cheung (Abortion Every Day, November 11, 2025) "With backing from Thiel, Recharge Capital launches $200M women’s health investment vehicle" by Catherine Shu (TechCrunch, June 15, 2023) "Rhea reaps $10M more led by Thiel" by Kate Park (TechCrunch, May 30, 2024) FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

    1h 50m
  4. Masturbation & Pornography

    JAN 12

    Masturbation & Pornography

    Moral panic about masturbation and pornography is nothing new, but in the wake of Donald Trump's re-election, numerous conservative groups—many of whom have deep ties to the natalist movement—have started to ring the alarm bell once again. This week, June and Josh take a look at the early history of fear of masturbation, then jump forward to the present day to see how the Kids Online Safety Act (KOSA) reflects many of these paranoias and introduces problems of its own. There's also a pretty significant detour into talking about the Zootopia abortion comic, if that's your thing. ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON NOW! We record bonus mailbag episodes and release them at the beginning of each week. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to illconceivedpod@gmail.com*** EPISODE ART: John Harvey Kellogg, a physician who founded the Kellogg Company with his brother Will in Battle Creek, Michigan in 1906. Kellogg believed that bland food such as unsweetened corn flakes could aid in reducing the urge to m********e. He also was a notable eugenicist and co-founded the Race Betterment Foundation in 1914 to discourage interracial relationships. AUDIO CLIPS: 16:07 – Tucker Carlson talks to Milo Yiannopolous about homosexuality FURTHER READING/LISTENING: The Worst of All Possible Worlds episode about Every Young Man's Battle (Apple Podcasts / Spotify / YouTube)  The Zootopia abortion comic SOURCES: The Age-Gated Internet Is Sweeping the US. Activists Are Fighting Back The far right’s crusade against porn is a red herring – it’s actually a crusade against progress Re-Victimized: When Sexual Assault Gets Uploaded to Porn Platforms The Disturbing True Story of Kellogg’s Anti-Masturbation Cereal How Project 2025 Tries to Demonize LGBTQI+ People—and Why It’ll Fail Nick Kristof and the Holy War on Pornhub Delete history: Pornhub changed the world, but its empire faces a reckoning Internet Censorship Bills Wouldn’t Help Catch Sex Traffickers Project 2025 Tracker Age verification regulations in the United States of America Hack of Age Verification Company Shows Privacy Danger of Social Media Laws Press release about the passage of KOSA from the office of Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-MD) IHOPKC founder committed sexual abuse, misconduct against 17 women, investigation finds Melissa McCarthy Apologizes for Supporting Charity with Anti-LGBTQ Past FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

    1h 32m
4.5
out of 5
274 Ratings

About

A podcast about natalism. Hosted by Josh Boerman (The Worst of All Possible Worlds, Traditional Scrench) and June Sternbach (Kill The Computer, The Onion).

You Might Also Like