Vine Abiders Podcast

Chris White

Theological studies with Chris White an author, filmmaker and podcaster. Holiness, Wesleyan, Early Church. vineabiders.substack.com

  1. 3d ago

    What If Faith Means Allegiance? - Animated Video and Updates

    What does it really mean to have faith in Jesus? This short animation explores faith as allegiance: believing the gospel and pledging your loyalty to Jesus as King. Beginning with a royal announcement in the Roman world, we explore the language of the gospel, the Greek word pistis, and the connection between faith and obedience. Drawing on the argument in Matthew Bates’s book Salvation by Allegiance Alone, the video asks what changes when we understand faith as loyalty to the risen King. Why does Jesus ask, “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?” And why does James say that faith without works is dead? Obedience does not earn his mercy. It follows from giving him your allegiance. Notes: My new Books: How to Quit Drinking Forever - The Hard Truth for Christians: https://www.amazon.com/How-Quit-Drinking-Forever-Christians-ebook/dp/B0HHQWHGSJ Seven Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture: https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Pretrib-Problems-Prewrath-Rapture-ebook/dp/B0HMFNTX7P New Bible Prophecy Podcast: Alan’s Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@bibleprophecyanswers My Bible Prophecy Podcast: https://bibleprophecytalk.com/ Animation by Artiseca Studio: https://artiseca.com Explore Matthew Bates’s book, Salvation by Allegiance Alone:https://www.amazon.com/dp/0801097975 Scripture references: Mark 1:15; 1 Corinthians 15:3–4; Matthew 28:18; Luke 6:46; James 2:17. #BiblicalFaith #JesusIsKing #ChristianAnimation This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit vineabiders.substack.com

  2. Sep 13

    Reclaiming the Faith Interview - Chris White / Phil Baker

    In this episode of Vine Abiders, I’m sharing an interview I recently did with Phil Baker on his excellent podcast, Reclaiming the Faith. Phil and I discuss my book The Deformation and explore some of the major theological shifts that have shaped modern Christianity. We begin with my own journey away from Once Saved, Always Saved and then dig into what the New Testament means by the “gospel” and “faith”—including the idea of faith as allegiance to Jesus as King. From there, we discuss Augustine’s influence on Christian theology, original sin and total depravity, Romans 7, Martin Luther and the Reformation understanding of “works,” the Sermon on the Mount, and how the early church understood the death and atonement of Jesus. Toward the end of the conversation, things become more personal as Phil asks me about losing my wife to cancer and what that experience taught me about suffering. We talk about the biblical idea that life is a test, why trials matter, and why the choices we make in the midst of suffering may have eternal significance. Also Mentioned: How to Quit Drinking Forever I recently released a new book, How to Quit Drinking Forever: The Hard Truth for Christians. It tells the story of my own freedom from alcohol and lays out what I believe Scripture teaches about repentance, freedom from bondage, and the genuine power available to Christians—not merely to stop drinking, but to become free from the desire to drink. How to Quit Drinking Forever: The Hard Truth for Christianshttps://www.amazon.com/How-Quit-Drinking-Forever-Christians/dp/B0HHR129DX In This Episode * Why I changed my mind about Once Saved, Always Saved * The gospel as the announcement that Jesus is King * What “faith” means and why allegiance matters * Augustine, original sin, total depravity, and free will * A different way of understanding Romans 7 * Martin Luther, “works,” and the Sermon on the Mount * How Reformation theology changed the understanding of atonement * Penal substitutionary atonement, Christus Victor, and the Old Testament sacrificial system * The scapegoat and what it means for Jesus to “bear” our sins * Why suffering so often becomes a test of faithfulness * What losing my wife taught me about endurance, trials, and eternity Thanks again to Phil Baker for having me on Reclaiming the Faith. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit vineabiders.substack.com

  3. Jul 8

    The Scapegoat in Atonement - Satan's Power of Death is Nullified Through Christ's Decent Into Hades

    There is a line in Hebrews that Christians quote often, but I am not sure we have always stopped long enough to ask what it actually means. Hebrews says that Jesus became flesh and blood so that through death he might destroy the devil. Hebrews 2:14-15 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. That passage raises several questions. What is “the power of death”? In what sense did Satan have it? How did Jesus’ death destroy the one who had that power? And why would Satan participate in the crucifixion if the crucifixion was the very event that would undo him? That last question is especially important. The New Testament gives us reason to believe that the crucifixion was, in some sense, a mystery hidden from the rulers of this age. 1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. That verse may refer to earthly rulers, spiritual rulers, or both. Either way, the logic is striking. Had they understood what was happening, they would not have crucified Jesus. So what did they misunderstand? More specifically, what did Satan misunderstand? My proposal is that the answer has been hiding in the Day of Atonement ritual, especially in the part of that ritual Christians often neglect: the scapegoat. The Day of Atonement did not involve only one goat. It involved two. One goat was “for the LORD,” slain, and its blood was brought into the holy place. The other goat was sent away alive, bearing the sins of the people into the wilderness, to Azazel. If Christ fulfills the Day of Atonement, then we should expect Him to fulfill both goats, not merely one. The first goat helps explain Christ’s blood, priesthood, resurrection, and heavenly offering. The second goat, I believe, helps explain His descent into Hades and the defeat of Satan. The scapegoat is the Satan-defeating part of the Day of Atonement. That is the thesis. Blood, Life, and the Logic of Atonement Before we can talk about the scapegoat, we need to begin with the first goat and the broader logic of atonement. Jacob Milgrom, the great Leviticus scholar, argued that blood functions in the sacrificial system as a kind of ritual detergent. That may sound strange at first, but the logic is biblical. Blood cleanses because blood contains life. Leviticus gives us one of the clearest explanations in Scripture for why blood makes atonement. Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’. The blood is effectual because of the life that is in it. This matters because sin pollutes sacred space. Israel’s sins defile the camp, the tabernacle, and the place where God dwells among His people. If sin leads to death, then it makes sense that life cleanses what death has polluted. This also means that, in the Old Testament sacrificial system, the slaughter of the animal is not itself the whole act of atonement. The animal is slain so that the blood can be obtained. The blood is then applied to the holy place. That application is the atoning act. This is where David Moffitt’s work on Hebrews becomes important. Moffitt has argued that Hebrews does not treat the cross as the whole of Christ’s priestly offering. Christ dies, rises, ascends, and then enters the heavenly sanctuary as the true high priest. Hebrews says: Hebrews 9:11-12 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. And again: Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: On this reading, the resurrection is not an afterthought. Christ must rise because a dead priest cannot enter the heavenly holy place. He must ascend because the true sanctuary is in heaven. He must present His blood because atonement involves priestly application, not merely slaughter. That explains one half of the Day of Atonement. But it does not yet explain Hebrews 2. Hebrews does not merely say that Christ makes atonement. It says that through death He destroys the one who had the power of death, that is, the devil. How does the Day of Atonement defeat the devil? A recent scholarly proposal by Katie Marcar turns to Passover and Exodus imagery. In that model, Satan is like Pharaoh, the realm of death is like Egypt, and Christ leads a new exodus out of bondage. I think that typology is valuable. But it still leaves a mechanism question unanswered. How, exactly, is Satan’s power broken? My contention is that the missing mechanism is the second goat. The Forgotten Goat Leviticus 16 describes two goats. Leviticus 16:8-10 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat. And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD’s lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness. The first goat is killed. Its blood is taken into the holy place. The second goat is not killed. It is presented alive. The high priest lays both hands on its head, confesses Israel’s sins over it, and sends it away. Leviticus 16:20-22 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat: And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. That second goat is not a decorative appendage to the ritual. Leviticus says it is part of the atonement. It bears the people’s sins away. So if Christ fulfills the Day of Atonement, where does He fulfill this goat? The New Testament repeatedly describes Christ in sin-bearing language. Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:11-12 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. 2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. This is scapegoat language. Christ does not merely die. He bears sin. The crucial question is where He bears it. The first goat’s blood goes up into the holy place. The second goat goes out, away from the camp, into the wilderness, to Azazel. If Hebrews’ heavenly sanctuary is a real place, and Christ’s priestly ascent is a real movement, then we should at least consider whether the scapegoat movement also has a real fulfillment. Not merely metaphorical. Not merely poetic. Real. Christ bears sin outside the camp. Christ descends into the realm of the dead. Christ carries the sins of His people into the domain associated with Satan, death, and accusation. That is where the scapegoat becomes central. Christ’s Descent Was Victory, Not Punishment The descent of Christ into Hades is an ancient Christian doctrine. It is confessed in the Apostles’ Creed. It also appears in several biblical passages. Ephesians 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. 1 Peter 3:18-22 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Romans 10:6-7 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Chri

  4. Jun 16

    The Resurrection Is More Important Than You Think

    If you have ever sat through an Easter sermon and walked away faintly dissatisfied with the explanation of why the resurrection matters, you are not alone. Preachers rightly treat it as the hinge of the Christian faith. Paul says that if it did not happen, we are still in our sins, so it clearly has something to do with the atonement. And yet the reasons usually given for it always struck me as thin. I once thought I understood this doctrine well. After a season of reading (the books are listed at the end), I have come to think my old view was not so much wrong as badly incomplete. The reality is stranger and far more important than I had been taught. Let me start with the three answers you have probably heard, and then build toward what I think is actually going on. Three Familiar Answers First, that the resurrection vindicates Jesus’s teaching. Tim Keller put it crisply: if Jesus rose, you have to accept everything he said; if he did not, none of it matters. I more or less agree, but I would hesitate to make rising from the dead the thing that certifies a teacher’s words. The Antichrist, by my reading, will appear to rise from the dead too. More to the point, I cannot find an explicit teaching in Scripture that says we should believe Jesus because he rose. It feels more like worldly wisdom than a biblical argument. I will give Keller the benefit of the doubt, but it does not get to the heart of things. Second, that the resurrection proves Christ’s death accomplished salvation. John Piper frames it as proof that the death of Jesus was an all-sufficient price, that without the resurrection his death was a failure. In this model the resurrection is essentially a receipt: God’s wrath has been satisfied, so he raises his Son to show the transaction cleared. It is intensely cross-centered, and that is exactly what I want to challenge. The atonement could not have been completed until Jesus rose and ascended. If that is true, then the resurrection cannot merely be proof that the work was already finished at the cross. It is part of the work itself. Third, that the resurrection gives us hope of our own. This is the one you hear on Easter most often and at funerals, and it is the one I fully agree with. Christ is the firstfruits; because he rose, we have solid hope that we will too. But there is far more to say, and the deeper reasons are what I want to walk through. What Is the Atonement, Exactly? Before we can say why the resurrection matters, we have to ask a question most Christians never think to ask. What is the atonement? Most people would answer that it is Jesus dying for our sins on the cross. That is not wrong, but it mistakes the opening act for the whole drama. In the logic of the Old Testament sacrificial system, the death of the victim was never the moment of atonement. It was the preparation for it. This is not a controversial claim among scholars of Israel’s sacrificial system. The slaughter of the animal, by itself, accomplished nothing. Its purpose was to obtain the blood, and the purpose of the blood was to be carried to a sacred place and applied. The application was the atoning act, whether that meant sprinkling blood on the mercy seat on the Day of Atonement or on the various implements of the tabernacle. Leviticus 17:11 is about the only place in the Bible that explains why this works: ‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’ The operative idea is that the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.. We meet this theme early in Scripture, in the severe prohibition against eating blood. Blood carries life, and that is precisely why it makes atonement. Atonement is fundamentally about cleansing, and life cleanses because what it cleanses is the opposite of life, which is death. Here is the picture, and it is worth holding onto. At the center of the tabernacle dwelt God’s own presence, the pillar of cloud and fire between the cherubim. I take this to be the Holy Spirit, the same Spirit who will one day dwell in the temple of our bodies. The connection is close to one-to-one, and you will not fully grasp what the New Testament says about the Spirit until you see that the Spirit was that pillar of fire. Sin, which leads to death, defiled the place where this presence dwelt. (Leviticus 16:16–19) Atonement was the cleansing that kept it habitable, so that the Spirit would remain in Israel’s midst. When the nation sank into sin and the cleansing lapsed, the presence departed. So in the old system, atonement was not finished until the blood reached the sacred object. On the Day of Atonement the high priest, having first purified himself so he would not die, carried the blood into the Holy of Holies for one purpose: to place it on the mercy seat and withdraw. Until the blood touched that lid, no atonement had been made. Hold that thought, because it is about to do a great deal of work. The Lid of the Ark If atonement requires blood on the mercy seat, then atonement cannot have been completed at the cross, because there was no Ark of the Covenant at Golgotha. That is not a clever objection of mine. It is the very point the author of Hebrews builds his argument around, and it is why Jesus had to ascend to where the true mercy seat is. The Hebrew name for that lid is kapporeth, from the same root that gives us Yom Kippur. It means, roughly, to atone. The Day of Atonement is the day, and the kapporeth is the place, of atonement. The phrase is almost circular: atonement is made on the place of atonement. The lid is so central that its very name is atonement. The New Testament writers refer to that same object with the Greek word hilasterion. Translated as “mercy seat,” it renders the Hebrew faithfully. Translated as “atonement,” it is also fair, since that is what the word carried. But some translations render it “propitiation,” meaning the satisfaction of a god’s wrath, and that I think is a mistake. Many of the translators, including those behind the King James, were Calvinists for whom atonement simply was the satisfaction of wrath, so substituting one word for the other cost them nothing. It costs us a great deal, because it smuggles a whole theory of the atonement into a word that never meant it. Hebrews and the Heavenly Tabernacle The book of Hebrews was written, in part, to explain how atonement works, and the author is insistent on a point modern readers tend to spiritualize away: there is a real tabernacle in heaven. The one Moses built was a copy and shadow of it. When I have tried to describe this to people, they reach for “in a spiritual sense,” but the writer of Hebrews means something more concrete. The cleansing capable of pouring God’s Spirit out on all flesh, as happened at Pentecost, could only be accomplished by a sacrifice offered not in an earthly sanctuary but in the heavenly original. He grounds this in Moses himself: Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. And he presses it further: Christ entered not the holy places made with hands, the mere figures of the true, but heaven itself, to appear before God for us. Whatever reality you grant the earthly Ark, Hebrews ranks it below the heavenly one, which is the real thing. Around this the author builds a careful case. First he must show that Jesus can be a high priest at all, since he came from Judah, not Levi. His answer is that Jesus belongs to a different and older order, the priesthood of Melchizedek. Then he establishes the real sanctuary above. Then he explains why a new covenant was needed in the first place: the old one was limited at every point, by the mortality of its priests, the earthliness of its tabernacle, the blood of animals, all of which capped how far its cleansing could reach. A greater atonement required a greater priest and a greater place. He brings the threads together in chapter nine: But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? The whole new covenant hinges on a logical fact: that Jesus is a real high priest, and that there is a real place in heaven for him to do his work. This, I suspect, is what Paul means in 1 Corinthians 15:17, that if Christ is not raised, our faith is vain and we are still in our sins. Read against Piper, the difference is sharp. For Piper the verse means the resurrection confirms a finished transaction. For Paul it means something stronger: you are not forgiven unless Jesus is raised. That can only be true if the dying was not the whole of the atonement. A Christ who died but never rose and ascended is a sacrifice slaughtered but never presented, blood that never reached the mercy seat, an atonement left unfinished. There is one more strand here I want to flag without overreaching. A high priest also maintains the covenant through ongoing intercession, which Hebrews ties to Christ’s endless life: he is able to save completely because he ever lives to intercede. I do not yet understand this aspect as well as I would like, so I will only note the obvious point. A dead savior cannot intercede. The resurrection is the condition of his ongoing priestly work as much as of his finished sacrifice. How Jesus Becomes Lord The second reason runs through the whole New Testament and is easy to mis

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Theological studies with Chris White an author, filmmaker and podcaster. Holiness, Wesleyan, Early Church. vineabiders.substack.com

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