Noticing: A Podcast About Nothing & Everything At The Same Time

Christina Watka & Becky DeCicco
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  • Spirituality

Noticing is a series of intimate conversations between long time friends Becky DeCicco and Christina Watka. Born out of consecutive months of deep conversation through voice memos during their paralleled years of awakening, Noticing explores the myriad of ways we can all acknowledge the mystery and live more fully in presence. DeCicco draws from her experience as a mindfulness teacher and lifelong lover of everything cosmic, spiritual, and religious while Watka comes from a background steeped heavily in the arts and a mind-body-spirit connection that naturally orients towards light. Through these conversations, they aspire to remind every person that our differences are what help us find a home in self, and only once we embody this authenticity can we seed the world we want to inhabit. noticingpod.substack.com

  1. 22h ago

    Walking With Fear

    When we recorded this, a video of Christina’s work was going viral. She talks about how this applies to her experience walking with fear. This reminds Becky of something she internalized as a child: that her success comes at the cost of another’s suffering. This conversation weaves around fear and being bright and where those two things connect. It ends at the truth: that when we all stand proudly in ourselves and offer our gifts freely, the world receives us. Episode Transcript Noticing Season 2 Episode 3 Christina: [00:00:00] All right, I want you to listen to your future Okay, listen to your future. Can you feel the caffeine going, going into your bloodstream? Ah, smells so good. Becky: Welcome to Noticing: The Podcast About Nothing And Everything At The Same Time. As we recorded this week’s episode, video of Cristina’s work was going a bit viral, it brought these questions around how we walk with our fear. Fear of being seen, fear of things changing with success. This conversation weaved around and around and ended at something very true [00:01:00] -that world is waiting receive us all as we stand proudly in ourselves and offer our gifts freely. So we hope you enjoy. So what number are you at as of this recording? Christina: Oh, I know, right? Um, I don’t even wanna look. It’s, uh, something close to 300,000. Becky: Wow. Christina: Um, yeah. So when we were thinking about what to talk about today, uh, I am in the live, um experience of going viral, and I was thinking about this last night on my way to bed, like, that’s such a weird term. Yeah. It’s weird. Viruses spread. Mm-hmm. It’s weird. No? Becky: It’s weird. Yeah. Christina: Yeah, I’ve always [00:02:00] resisted it, actually. I’ve always been like, “Eh, I don’t know.” I don’t aspire to that, I should say. Becky: Yeah. Christina: And, uh, it’s happening right now, and, um, I gotta say, it’s all, like anything, a question of perspective. So when I think like, “Oh, my gosh, I’m being seen,” well, I’m work... It’s my work, right? Like, this, this- Mm-hmm ... work is being seen by 350,000 people or whatever it is. Um, sort of an inconceivable number. I think, “Well, that’s really cool that that many people have been lifted by something today, and that something was made by me,” and that is a delight. Focus on light. You know? It’s, it’s nice. It’s nice to think about it that way. And, um, it’s easy for me to slip into, like, the, like, my [00:03:00] ick about algorithms and things like that. , But it’s a really kind of grounded place to be. It feels very... I feel very grounded about it all, actually, and I, um the things that people are saying are just wonderful. Hmm. Which is great. Mm. So that’s what I was thinking about when we were thinking about what’s really alive in us right now. Um, I’m watching this very strange and peculiar thing happen, and I am not resisting it. Becky: Hmm. That’s what I was curious about, is, uh, what was the resistance about before? Christina: Um, I think the resistance was more about, um- Um, sort of like Some people want this so badly. I don’t. And [00:04:00] so what is my role if it happens to me? And maybe I’m just thinking about it too much. I don’t know. But it, there’s... Mm, yeah, like people play the game and think about the algorithm a lot. I have a lot, I have a lot of, like ick is the word I can think of. It- even, um, like in our, in our, we have a group of creatives, you know, that we talk to on here and stuff. We’ve talked about the algorithm, and if people wanna use Instagram to help propel them forward in some way. Um, it’s not what I have done. And in fact, if I feel at all like that’s what I’m doing on there, then I can’t, I shouldn’t be on there personally. Like, this, I don’t want- Mm-hmm ... that. But I’m still there ‘cause it remains a point of real connection. And like if 300,000 people can be buoyed by light, then that’s great. Then I’m happy to be there- Becky: Mm-hmm I [00:05:00] think I was just so curious about the timing because, I mean- ... this post, this post came out... We had just met. Our group of creatives- Mm-hmm ... had just met the day before, Christina: I think. It was, it was less than 24 hours before. Becky: Yeah. Where we were talking about, um, like what’s your edge, Cristina? Mm-hmm. Like, what is... what’s that next edge, that thing that you’re growing into that still scares you a little bit? Mm. And part of it was around being seen in a new way. Mm-hmm. ... And I just found it so fascinating that, that in you just naming it and putting it out there- ... then it becomes something, you know, that you’re living into. And the speed at which you move through things is staggering to me sometimes. But yeah, the time... Did you think about the timing? Obviously you did. Of course. Of course you did. Christina: I [00:06:00] noticed it. Becky: Yeah. Christina: Yeah. I noticed it because, um, it’s good practice for me to say this out loud again. So, like, I identified a fear recently, about sharing my work with the world. And, um, even especially since starting this podcast, I’ve just committed to myself. Once I recognized that the lightness that I so naturally bear is, so authentic and is not what everyone is, is holding, um, I was just like, “Well, okay, I’m gonna stop diminishing that or stop hiding that or whatever.” And I feel like I’ve talked about that on here. But, um, yeah. So then I started... I got asked the question by a, a good friend, like, “What are you afraid of?” Such a simple question. I hadn’t really thought about it. And I thought about it, and at first I was like, “You know, I’m not afraid of being wrong. I’m not afraid of being true.” I, um, it... and I, and I had to go through all [00:07:00] these things that I’m not afraid of. And then I realized, oh, I, I am afraid of something, and I’m afraid that if I am meant to share... Like, what I have to share I think is meant to be shared widely right now. And that’s a wonderful feeling. And then if I push into that a little bit, then I realize, oh, actually, um, it feels scary to me if that takes me away from my family. Like, if, if, if what I need to share takes me away from my family because it can be witnessed and seen widely. Um, l- like John Batiste and Jacob Collier are two real expanders for me, and I often will watch and be like, “What do they do?” You know, Jacob Collier’s like a younger guy, so he doesn’t have kids, but- Mm ... John Batiste, I’m like, “Your wife is literally sick. Well, how do you reckon with that?” Like, right? You can’t be there all the time. Becky: Mm. Christina: What do you do? How do you clean your [00:08:00] bathroom? How do you make sure- ... that you have food on the table? These are literally questions I think of, right? So, like, I’m so anchored here in my home life, which is really, really important for me. Mm-hmm. And I feel like the thing that I’m here to share is much bigger than that, and so there’s a friction there. And in the group, we were ta- we were talking a little bit about, about this and how I’m in deeper relationship with that fear, and I’m sort of walking with it. And, and I think I even said, like, “I’m walking with it.” I feel- Mm ... it feels more integrated in me now, in part due to this group where we share really deep things once a month. And, um, and then literally, like, within 24 hours... I just randomly, uh, the light was really lovely in my space, and you had just brought me these two sculptures back from Rockland, and they were just doing their thing. It was just- Mm ... like their moment, and so I took a video on my way to get the kids off the bus, and I just was like boop. I posted it, and then, and then every [00:09:00] hour, like 10,000 more people are seeing it, which is cool, and I don’t feel activated by it. Becky: Yeah. Christina: I think I would have. Um, but that really did happen fast, no? Becky: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ... I’m curious if you could say more about the experience of walking with your fears, and I wonder if that’s, something that could be beneficial for people ‘cause I think being with fear, we don’t know how. You know- Mm ... fear, for a lot of us, shuts you down. You know, sh- can shut you down. .. I mean, I’m still learning this, that bravery isn’t the absence of fear. You know, doing something, brave or courageous, whatever that may be for you, right, doesn’t mean you don’t have fear. It means you have a different relationship with fear. So I’m wondering if you could, as much as you are [00:10:00] conscious of it, what does that walking with fear look like for you? Christina: My friendship with you makes me conscious of these things. So I’m grateful for that because I, uh, I really have to think about it. I walk with it the same way that I walk with other emotions. Mm-hmm. So like- The joy that I felt in watching this sculpture move, which is like noticing light, as we all know, is the thing for me, right? Mm-hmm. And so I am mesmerized by these things. And like they’re like the wallpaper of my life, and they’re st- I’m still so mesmerized by them. Becky: Mm. Christina: Um, and they fill me with such deep presence and lightness and- Mm ... playfulness and joy, and I walk with those feelings every day, too. Becky: Mm-hmm. Christina: And so when I recognized this fear, um, I just walk with it like [00:11:00] everything else. Becky: Mm. ... What jumped out at me there is, and this is such a silly example, but maybe it’ll help bring it down to Earth for other people who, uh, aren’t artists getting quarter of a million views on their art. But like for me, what, what came up for me is my r- rediscovering of my love of tennis. Christina: Mm-hmm. Becky: And the joy and love, just pure joy and love that’s not productive, it’s not for anythi

    Walking With Fear

  2. Oct 2

    The Edge

    This week, we join our friend Jenny O’Connell in conversation again. Having just completed her adventure memoir, Wildheart, Jenny shares that come June 1, 2027, her life will reach a new imbalance—people will know her more intimately than she knows them. She discusses the ways she’s been preparing to be visible. “It isn’t about me it’s actually about something much bigger than me and I’m just the vessel,” she says. As a beacon of true vulnerability, Jenny repeatedly reorients towards authenticity, asking herself how can I be more honest how can I be more true? She recognizes that she is in the business of heart work, working through every facet of her life to reconnect people to themselves and then to the issues that we are all facing on this planet. In this conversation, you’ll hear all about living at the edge. It’s not comfortable, but it is filled with possibility. Links and Resources * Preorder Jenny’s memoir * Listen to Jenny’s first visit to Noticing and hear more about her journey: Bless the Foolish Ideas * Read Jenny’s Substack essay “The Art of Being Seen” * If you like this conversation, we think you will also enjoy this episode of Wild Card with Terry Tempest Williams Episode Transcript Christina: You know, I’m on my dog walk right now thinking about something I read yesterday about Carl Jung and how he talked all about the myriad of ways we can make the unconscious conscious, and how sometimes that is like a harmful relationship that we’re in or a difficult conversation that helps, um, mirror something unconscious in us so that we can face it and make it conscious. And then I was thinking of all the ways that, like, I see that happening in my friends’ lives right now. Um, and then I was also thinking like, huh, that’s like exactly what’s been happening to me with all of this, um, heightened mysticism and, um, really acute awakened spirituality. It’s like all of these things in my life were this pattern, this illuminated pattern that was quite wonderful and mysterious. And then as soon as I made it conscious, which involved me just like blurting out the series of mystical experiences and then sobbing as I acknowledged all of them, then they become conscious. And when they become conscious, they’re even more potent and the world feels happier that I’m conscious of them. Isn’t that great? Becky: Welcome to Noticing, a podcast about nothing and everything at the same time. This week we are back in conversation wilderness guide, author, and dear friend Jenny O’Connell. As Jenny prepares for the launch of her adventure memoir, Wildheart, in June next year, she’s realizing that her life will a new imbalance. People will know her more intimately than she knows them. In this conversation, we discuss all the ways that she’s been preparing to be visible. We talk about how there’s an edge of being seen, of being seen in new ways, but that edge where life becomes art. I hope you enjoy. Christina: All right. It’s go time Season two, episode two. We are bringing back a wonderful dear friend who, Becky and I just decided this was a great reason to bring people we wanna talk to back here. And on episode one of this season, I talked a lot about you, Jenny, and so we have Jenny O’Connell back. For those of you who don’t know, we will, we can flag the first episode. Um she’s an author, wonderful person, dear, dear friend, of both Becky and I now. So welcome. Welcome. Jenny: Thank you. It’s the first time I’ve been calling myself an author. Christina: Ooh. Jenny: Like, that word- It is ... is new to me to claim, and so, um, what an honor it is to come back under that title. That’s amazing. I just finished my book after 12 years. Amazing. Becky: How’s it feel to claim it? Jenny: Feels really good, and it feels correct. Mm. Christina: It is correct. Jenny: Mm. Christina: Yeah, ‘cause last time when we had you on here before, you were almost done, but you weren’t done yet. You were kind of, uh, months away, maybe a couple months away. May- maybe more than that, actually. Jenny: Yeah, the last six months in particular have been some of the most intense and beautiful, months of my life, just- Mm ... with finishing this project that wanted to come through me starting 12 years ago, and has just kept coming through me, and sort of, like, shaping me into the person I am now. And finishing it, I didn’t, I didn’t know what it would mean to finish a book, but you’re a different person when you do that than, while you’re still writing it. Christina: Especially if you’re writing a memoir. Jenny: Yes, especially that. Christina: Yeah, I was actually gonna ask you, before you even said that note, I was gonna say, like, how have you changed? What is, what is your biggest change of self? ‘Cause I know you now, but I didn’t know you 12 years ago. Jenny: Oh, that’s such a good and layered question. Um, The first thing that’s coming to mind is that I feel more rooted in myself, and my purpose, and my own knowing than I ever have been before. I think a lot of the process was me getting here. You know? It was me circling these ideas, and really, peeling back the layers of my life, and coming into the most truthful relationship with myself that I could find. And there’s always more to do, you know? There’s always more to peel back and understand. But yeah, I feel rooted in myself and in what I’m here to do in this life, in a way that I never have before. And so the whole... It’s like my energy has coalesced. It’s like, it’s all just consolidated now. And it’s bright, and it’s here, and it’s go time Becky: Hmm. That image of, like consolidation. I, I just had this image of, like, all the pieces of yourself coming home. ... Like, last time we were talking about all the ways in which we’re tamed, which feels like a ripping apart, you know, a, a disassociation of all those parts, and this just feels like this beautiful homecoming all back to yourself. It’s really beautiful. Jenny: Thank you. Becky: Yeah. Jenny: The image that popped into my head was, like, when you eat a bowl of oatmeal and all the blood rushes to your stomach. Christina: It’s like that. Jenny: You know, it’s, it’s like both of those things. Becky: Life is like a bowl of oatmeal. I love it. Jenny: I couldn’t not share that. It was too funny. Christina: I love it. Becky: It’s perfect. Christina: I know. Yeah, I know that feeling, for sure. Um, what, what are you here to do, Jenny? Jenny: Um, I’m here to connect people back to themselves and to the earth, and to remind us that we are alive and that we don’t actually have all that much time here. And, for me, that mortality thread, we talked about this in the last conversation we had too, but it’s, it’s so important. We are a species that forgets that we are alive all the time, and I think that when I remember that, I come back to my own, um like, purpose and power and sort of a direction. Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, I’m here to, to connect us back to the experience of being alive. And, you know, we’re living in a time of intense disconnection. I’ve been thinking most of all lately about AI and about, what we’re losing with, uh, what we’re losing the more that we embrace that as a central way of being, and I think that a lot of my work reclaims the messy and the human and, you know, everything from, like, joy to grief to tenderness to, an accelerated heartbeat. It’s like there, there are these things that are so intensely human, that I refuse to let go of, and I think that that, that what is so intensely human and what is so alive is actually what’s going to bring us through this moment. So that’s something I’m willing to throw my whole life and work behind. Becky: It’s such a beautiful antidote of... A- and when you said like a, it is like a reclamation. As I think about AI, and I think about the forces bringing AI into this world, they wanna make it seem like it’s so inevitable, you know? That like, that, that we’re embracing it. But are we embracing it, or are we just being fed it? So this reclamation, this taking back of our humanity feels so powerful. It does feel like the antidote we need right now is to be wildly human, which means to be wildly messy, and wildly complicated, and wildly nuanced. And then transitioning into what’s next, maybe we wanna talk about today, is then to be seen in that wildness, in that messiness, you know? And I was really struck as we were talking last night about the Substack article you just posted about being seen, which we’ll obviously link. Um, but yeah, so you’ve had this coalescing of all these parts of yourself and a coming home, and now you’re releasing to the world. You’re being seen in your wildness, and about to be seen in such a bigger way. How’s that stirring in you right now? Jenny: Mm. You know, I mean, it’s uncomfortable. Um, there is, there is this imbalance that is about to happen in my life, where my book is an adventure memoir, and it is 250 pages intensely inside my body, and my heart, and my mind. And, I think that that is both, it feels amazing to be known in that way. Like what a gift that I get to be known like that. And it’s also a way that people will know me. Everybody who already has met me, and many who haven’t, will know me more intimately than I can know them. And so, I think it’s beautiful. You know? I embrace it, and it’s also- uncomfortable. It’s, it’s like there are things You know, I’m somebody who, I’m a guide, I’m a speaker, I’m a teacher. I’m often ... I don’t appear as somebody who, is uncomfortable being seen or letting herself be seen. But there have been these places that I’ve realized, that were, like, unknown to me, that have sort of come to light as I’ve thought about my book Meeting the World, and it’s, you know, subtle things. It’s like, thinking

    The Edge

  3. Sep 18

    Nature and the Subtle Body

    Welcome To Season Two! When I say, “listen to your elders,” who comes to mind? Your grandparents? Your ancestors? In this episode we talk about how the trees, plants, and natural elements that surround us are the wisest elders we can tune into now. Christina shares a story from a recent artist residency on an island in Maine when she heard the island clearly speaking to her. Becky heard this, felt inspired, and went home and for the first time invited the trees in the backyard into conversation. Delightfully, they answered. We discuss explicitly how each of us arrives into this communion with the world around us. Unsurprisingly, it is similar to how we hear our own inner wisdom clearly. Episode Transcript Christina: Oh man. First day of school. New season begins. I have had to put my spiritual self, my partner self, my creative self on the back burner for three months. And I knew that was coming, and I have resisted it before, and it’s made the summer difficult. Um, and I was in, like, better relationship, like more accepting of it all this summer, and still, I am so glad to find and, like, recalibrate to a more suitable balance for me. I am not meant to be a housewife for more than a month. It is hard. And yeah. You know the first thing I’m gonna do today after I get home is run my energy with your voice in my ears, because I couldn’t think of a better thing to do before kicking off school season. Yes. Becky: Welcome to season two of Noticing, the podcast about nothing and everything at the same time. I’m Becky DeCicco, and I am back in conversation with my dear friend and co-host, Christina Watka, and we’re talking about communication with our elders, with the land, with the subtle energies that take stillness and sustained attention to actually hear. Welcome back, and we hope you enjoy Christina: It’s our season two, formally. Yeah. Begins right now. Becky: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Christina: Um, yeah, and I think, I think the first season was really about us, figuring a lot of stuff out together. Becky: Yeah. Christina: And then taking a break for the summer felt very good. I needed it. I don’t think I could have juggled this actually all summer. Becky: Yeah. Christina: Um, but it was also just nice... It felt really nice to take a break from having long conversations. Like, it felt like a, it felt like a perfect time to pause this Mm-hmm Um, and we’re always having long philosophical conversations anyway. But, um, yeah, I feel very much like I’m at a new beginning place right now. Becky: Yeah. Me too. Christina: Mm-hmm. Becky: As I thought about where we should start, I feel like we have to start on Norton’s Island. Christina: Yeah, I was thinking that too. So this summer, I... Over the last two years actually, I have been taking one month off, and I spend that mostly being a mom and hanging with my kids. And then this summer, it ended up just working out that I needed to take the whole summer off. Um, except for this incredible artist residency I attended on an island off the coast of Maine, with 10, uh, nine other creatives. And, it felt like it was meant to be. For example, I had a dream about being there with our mutual friend Jenny, who’s been on the podcast before. And, it was like one of those very cosmic dreams, and in the dream just briefly we were on a boat together with a bunch of other people, a small boat, and this whale was speaking to us before it emerged from the top of the ocean. And so we knew that it was approaching, and we could feel it kind of energetically approaching, and then it crested really close to the boat, and everyone was very afraid, but she and I both knew it was there, and we knew that it wasn’t there to hurt us. And then it went back in. So when I had that dream, I didn’t know that I was going yet, and so I told her, and we were like, “Well, it’s probably gonna happen then.” We did not have this experience on the island, however. We did not go in a boat and see a whale right next to us. But it was, um ... It came at a time where my spirituality and the practices and rituals that I have in the day are pretty steady. And my spirituality is at like a life high at the moment. Probably will just stay at this level forever. Maybe. I don’t know. Um, and- Becky: Or expand ... Christina: it was ... Or expand. Yeah. Um- I actually wrote something and I printed it so that I could read it, thinking that we were gonna talk about Norton Island, because it sort of explains the conversation I had with the island itself. So this was something that I read to the people that were there. Um, “every day I have been here, I’ve sent my consciousness down to the center beating place of this island. To me, it looks like a golden root, glowing, patient, and steady. It is a tether that pulses, flows, resources. The first day, I asked the island what I could do for her while I was here, and she told me, ‘Listen to how many ways I breathe.’ So I did. I heard the airy swish of seaweed, whips of wind, gulls, the bark of a seal, felt the swaying sensation of earth, the low tide hum. When she knew I’d listened long enough, she gave me the assignment for my time here. She told me, ‘Now show me how you breathe from your heart.’” And so it was... I, I think there’s, I think there’s something to this. Um, as I was thinking about what we were thinking about talking about today, loosely sort of being able to hear nature, being able to hear a tree or an island, and s- discern what it is and w- uh, be able, being able to separate your thoughts from what you’re hearing- Mm-hmm ... communication that you’re hearing. When I heard this, Jenny and I were together. We decided, um, we decided to go find a remote place on the island to sit together and to just make ourselves known to it. And I think that was an important beginning, not to say like, “What can I get from you?” But, “What can I offer you?” Mm-hmm. “I recognize you, whoever you are, as something sentient, conscious, and I am here to listen,” versus, “I am here to tell or own, or take.” So she and I were sitting there, you know, like back to back. And we just decided to close our eyes and get very still and see what happened And Jenny heard some things, first, and I’m forgetting exactly what she heard first, but then what happened when I knew that I was actually really hearing, first I was seeing this golden root. It was like my consciousness literally was shown... It sort of, like, traveled deep into the center golden place of this space. And then I knew that I was hearing something true because my whole body welled up with, like, tears. I felt the feeling first, and then I heard the sentence. And so to hear like, oh, you know, from the island’s perspective, “Oh, Christina, yay, you wanna talk to me. This is so great. Just listen to the many ways that I breathe,” that was not something that I would have thought. And so then I’m, like, working with the energy of this island, and then I heard all of these things. And then it was like you asked me, Christina, you asked me what, what you could do while you were here, and so show me all the ways that you breathe from your heart. And that’s like a really... That’s a specific thing to say. And so then I spent the entire residency thinking about that. Mm. Am I breathing from my heart if I’m doing this? Am I breathing from my heart if I’m making work and keeping it in one contained room? No, I actually think I need to make this work and go hang it from trees. Um. Yeah. It was... There was so much that happened in that short amount of time. Um, mm-hmm. Yeah ... Becky: how are you... I have thoughts, but first I’m curious how it feels. I’ve heard you share iterations of this. How’s it feel to share in this format? Christina: It feels important. Becky: Yeah. Christina: Um, because the people that I have shared this with one-on-one, then I have seen the ripples of that conversation where then later they are going home and saying like, “I wonder if I can listen to the tree in my backyard. I wonder if I can go outside and believe the thoughts that enter my brain when I’m still in my garden.” Christina: And honestly, like, it may sound wacky to many people, but I kinda don’t really care, and also it’s really wonderful because the, the result is that you feel more connected to the place that you are at any given moment. Becky: Mm-hmm. The first thing that’s coming up is the wackiness of that some people might perceive it as wacky, and, it just makes me reflect on the culture that we’ve created. And, and not we, you and I, but, like, we as the larger species. Um, and it just flashed into my head, Tarra posted this thing on Instagram that was like, “Why have we been taught to fear the witches instead of the ones that burned them alive?” Yes. You know? And it’s, it’s just so ridiculous when you start getting a little bit of perspective and zooming out a little bit from- from the water we were swimming in and actually get in touch with what feels true. It all feels so ridiculous. Mm. Not you speaking with- The earth that you are made from that actually feels very natural. It’s- Yeah ... it’s the idea that anyone would judge that or think it’s silly, that becomes the silly thought. Christina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It’s like, you know, before, uh, um, like a lesser version of this would be, like, me talking to my plants. You know? Mm. When people might come to my house and say, “You’ve got all these beautiful plants. Like, I don’t have a green thumb. I kill everything I try to grow.” And, and my response has always been, like, “I just talk to them and listen to them.” And that is very accepted, I think. “Oh, just- Yeah ... you know. But what if you take it what if you take it into all these different places? Like, what if you go- Yeah ... sit on the beach and look out at it and see if you can ask

    Nature and the Subtle Body

  4. Jul 24 ·  Bonus

    BONUS EPISODE: Receive Your Kids - Christina's Convo on Chasing Excellence

    This bonus episode is from Christina’s cousin Pat’s podcast, Chasing Excellence. A big thank you to Pat for offering us the audio free of ads. We hope you enjoy! Chasing Excellence Raise | Receive Your Kids - Don’t Just Shape Them (w/ Christina Watka) What if raising a child well means releasing your vision of who they’re supposed to become — and learning instead to see who they actually are? Patrick is joined this week by Christina Watka, an installation artist whose entire practice is built around entering a space without a plan, noticing what’s there, and letting the work lead. In this Raise episode, they explore how that same artistic openness transforms the way you parent: the role of noticing, the power of solitude, and what it means to receive your children instead of trying to shape them. Episode Transcript Christina: Hey, I just walked down to the farm to get some wine, and they had peaches. Now I’m walking up the street with wine in my bag and a peach in my hand. One peach, just for me. So good. But I wanted to tell you just a thought. I, I was telling my cousin Pat that we’re starting this podcast, and it’s based on the voice memos that we sort of would exchange. And he was like, “Oh my God.” He has a very successful podcast right now, and that’s not why I was telling him. He’s just someone I... I was like, he’s a, just a great person to talk shop with, and he was like, “Don’t sleep on the idea of actually doing a podcast with voice memos.” And I think he thought that I meant that the podcast was just a bunch of compiled voice memos. And he was like, “That’s the idea I’ve had. It’s a really good idea. You should totally do it.” And I wonder, it’s kind of an interesting thought, what, what it’d sound like to have, like, one episode just be our voice memos back and forth. You know? Interesting. Um Kind of like nice to have like the ambient sounds I’m hearing right now behind my voice, you know? Like the clanking of my wine bottles, the breeze, the crickets, my peach. Well, I love you. I love you. Becky: Welcome to Noticing, A Podcast About Nothing And Everything At The Same Time. Christina and I are still on break, and while we’re out enjoying all that Maine summer has to offer, we thought we would leave you with a little bonus. So in this episode is a conversation that Christina had with her cousin Patrick on his podcast, Chasing Excellence, as a part of his Raise series. In this conversation, they talk about noticing the life of an artist and what it’s like to receive your kids, not just shape them. So we hope you enjoy Patrick: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Chasing Excellence. I am Patrick. I am here. I’m joined by somebody I’m very excited to talk to because she is my cousin. I’m joined by, uh, Christina Watka. How are you, Christina? Christina: I am great. How are you? Patrick: I’m so good. I’m so excited to talk to you. This is another episode of our Raise series, and our Raise series and whe- is when I have conversations with folks, uh, similar to conversations we often have here on the show, but just bent a little bit towards our roles as parents or teachers or coaches or guides to young people. And so we have similar conversations that we often do. I just like to kind of point us in the direction of that particular role that we have in our lives, and I’m really excited to talk to you about this. I want to start with a little bit of background as to who you are, ‘cause I think it’s gonna provide enough context as to why I wanted to talk to you about this particular thing. So can you please tell us what an installation artist is, so that we can understand it enough so that we can understand a conversation about, that we’re going to have about how to raise our kids as though they were art projects? But first, what is an installation artist? Christina: Great question. An installation artist is a newer art form, and I like to talk about it in the sense that I, as an artist, prefer to walk into spaces and deliver my artwork and change the essence of the room. So I work in my studio, where I’m recording with you now, to make a lot of different small pieces that I weave together in a space so that it would never feel exactly the same in a different space. So it’s a lot of little things coming together to create one larger thing, and it oftentimes can play with your senses. So obviously, artwork is playing with your sense of sight, but installations can include smells, sound, lots of different things. So it’s environmental and spatial like that, and different than sculpture in that it’s not something I could just put in a box and mail somewhere and have it look the way it looked here. Patrick: Got it. So folks will bring you in to either... I know you’ve done work in hotels and in, in personal residences. You’ve also done some outside installations. Can you just give a little bit of the mechanics of, like, how one is and becomes a installation artist? Christina: Well, I have a theater minor. Going back to college days- I was always interested in, in experiencing spaces. I’m also the kid who rearranged her room every month to feel the energy shift. So I think, yeah, I think installation art just brings a completely different perspective. I have installed in, in lots of different places. Nowadays, people are thinking really differently about the architecture of spaces and the way they feel, so having an installation artist could be a really wonderful thing for, say, a curved stairwell where a four-by-six painting wouldn’t really work. I’m also someone who makes work that interacts with light, and so that is the quality of the air and the surrounding environment that I am attuning myself to when I go somewhere to install. Patrick: Mm-hmm. We will continue to talk about what it means to be an artist, I think, as we get through this conversation. That’s why I’m really excited to talk to you, ‘cause I don’t know that a lot of folks know personally somebody who is in any way one might use the definition an artist. I think a lot of people are artistic, but I think you’ve carved out this wonderful existence where you are, you both get to be artistic and an artist in the sense of that’s what you do for a living. That’s what you do when you, when you sit down to work, you are an artist. And so really excited to talk about that perspective because I think it’s, it’s relatively rare and incredibly valuable when it comes to, again, our role as parents or again, coaches, teachers, et cetera. So here’s what I’d love to do I wrote a note to myself. This was probably a few years ago now, and I remember writing it after getting to spend a little bit of time with you and your kids. And just for context, your kid, you’ve got an older son and two twin daughters, and they are almost exactly, almost exactly the age of my two kids. Like, they... It was rather funny. And so you and I, when we get to spend time together, I get to see how you and your husband Andrew parent, and it is always really inspiring to me to get to hang out with you and to get to see not only how you work, but also how you bring that artist mentality to mothering and to parenting. And so again, I wrote this to myself. This was just a note that I wrote to myself, and when I started this Raise series, I remembered the note, and I knew that I wanted to talk to you about it. And so this is kind of gonna be the basis of our conversation, uh, from here. So this is what I wrote to myself. “Raising a child is like raising an art project. You have a sense of things at the start, some ideas, some experience, some expectations. A bad artist would then spend years trying to keep the art project as closely aligned with that initial vision as possible, fighting tooth and nail to rein it in to make it what it’s supposed to be. But an evolved artist knows that the art project leads and the artist follows. Experience, intuition, intention, effort all still matter, but they are put where they belong, with the flow of the child, not with the flow of the parent. I don’t have two children. I have two art projects.” And so I would love for you maybe just to respond to that generally, and we’ll take that response, and then we’ll kinda have some fun with it. Christina: I love hearing the context of that quote. You sent it to me earlier, but I didn’t realize that it came after a visit. The first thing that I’m thinking actually is I come from two wonderful parents who thought of themselves as guides for my two siblings and I. So I think I lucked out in the parent department where I was encouraged to express myself in ways that felt true. They are not artists. One, my dad was in the military. He was a Marine, and my mom was a s- was a nurse. So, and they were just both aware that everyone is different and your children are not necessarily something that needs to be defined by you. Even to this day, they talk about how they did their best to guide us and really lucked out with what happened because we’re all living lives that we feel proud of, that we feel are in alignment with our values and our authenticity. But I say that first because I believe, I think I pushed it even further. I had my own kids and I met them I’m someone who didn’t even find out who they were until they were born, including twins, which everyone got so mad at me for not being able to tell them names I had, how their rooms were designed already, what I thought they were. I intuited some things about them, but I didn’t want to have any preconceived notions of my children until I met them. The same way I don’t want to have preconceived notions about people before I meet them. I love leading a life through curiosity so that I can have a clean slate as often as possible. And to me, that’s very much what an artist can be, should be maybe I would even say,

    BONUS EPISODE: Receive Your Kids - Christina's Convo on Chasing Excellence

  5. Jun 26

    Always Becoming

    Summer is in full swing and we invite you to listen to this week’s episode with an open heart. It will be our last episode until September, when we pick back up with a new season after soaking up the best of what Maine has to offer us. This episode is special. We talk with community artist, weaver, and elder Sarah Haskell. She exudes both a peacefulness and an energy of someone who greets each day anew, grounded in curiosity and gratefulness. We recorded this two days before her 76th birthday, a number she proudly shared with us while also exclaiming that she merely stands on a longer ladder than we do. Like Sarah, this conversation weaves and gestures towards many things. She talks openly about her aging body and how it relates to her material of choice: thread; how it frays, responds to time, light, and weather. She also shares candidly how she and her husband of 50 years have both chosen to walk spiritual paths, how being in a long term partnership is a spiritual practice. Her life has taken her many places, and her heart guides her decisions. This conversation is refreshing and holy, just like Sarah. But she’d probably tell us how we are all holy, because after all, Unconditional Love is the baseline for everything. Begin there, and you’re on your way. Episode Transcript Christina: I know that I say this to you all the time, but truly it will never, ever, ever get old that I can hop in the car, drive to the beach, and come home in like 30 minutes. Like, I just went, de-noodled my brain, soaked my body in salt cold water, and floated until I heard nothing but my heartbeat. At a beach that is in like a mile or two from my house. Um, it, it really will never get old. I will never, ever not feel thankful for this. Becky: Welcome Noticing: A Podcast About Nothing And Everything At The Same Time. Summer is in full swing, and Christina and I will be taking a little bit a break as we soak up the best what Maine has to offer us. So we’re leaving you with a very special episode with community artist, weaver, and elder Sarah Haskell. Like Sarah, this conversation weaves and gestures towards many things. She talks openly about her aging body and how it relates to her material of choice, thread. How it frays, responds to time, light, and weather. This conversation is refreshing and holy, just like Sarah. But she’d probably tell us how we’re all holy, Because after all, unconditional love is the baseline for everything. Begin there and you’re on your way. So I hope you enjoy. Christina: So for this week, we have, artist and friend, Sarah Haskell, on the podcast, and, I get to introduce the people that I know, and Becky introduces the people that she knows. And, Sarah is an artist as well. Sarah’s someone that I would describe as the person that makes an entire room feel more peaceful simply by being- Mm-hmm ... in it. That is how I’ve always felt. And I think, honestly, I found... Maybe I found your work online first. Maybe my mother-in-law had actually met you at, um, at a Maine College of Art summer program, and she was like, “There’s this really hip woman that’s, like, kinda closer to my age than your age. Her name is Sarah. She’s really cool. I hope I get to see her more.” And then I, um... Yeah. Then I think... I, I’m sort of... I kinda forget the order of events. Then you were in the same show. You had a show in the front lobby of when I showed what’s actually hanging behind me here, and I saw your work, and I had seen it on Instagram and different things. And then I started reading the meaning behind the work, and I was like, “Wow, we are sort of making art for similar reasons.” And, there’s a unity that I experience in your presence, in your artwork, and in the way that you just exist in the world that I am excited- Mm ... to talk about today. And, um then I took my kids to a community art project that you hosted, and I know that’s important to, to your work and what you offer in the world. And it was just- It was just wonderful. So many different generations and families in the same room, and you were just guiding them with such ease, such playfulness, and such a groundedness about you. Mm. Um, and I loved the experience, and I... Yeah, you’re just somebody who makes everyone feel better- Thank you by being around. That’s how I, that’s how I see you. - And so, yeah, Sarah’s gonna be here with us in conversation today, so that would be the way that I would, that I would introduce you. Thanks for being here. Sarah: Well, thank you, Christina. Mm. What a, what a beautiful introduction. I love the way that you introduce your, I don’t wanna s- your, your guests- Christina: Mm. Sarah: Because it’s from the heart. So thank you. Christina: Mm-hmm. Sarah: Thanks. Christina: Yeah. I try to, I try to appo- approach most things from that place. Sarah: Good. Much, much better than the head. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Christina: Yeah. Sarah: Mm. Christina: So, um, as we begin, I wonder if you wanted to... You know, you’ve heard enough of our podcast that you know that we’re not really interested in resumes or anything like that. It’s more just who these people are, having a heartfelt, connected conversation. Um, so I wonder how you would begin to describe your place in the world- Mm ... and what you’re here to do. Sarah: Oh, thank you. I’m still trying to figure that out, honestly. Yeah. I, yeah. My favorite answer to questions these days is, “I don’t know.” And it’s always about exploring. I know that for me, art is integral to every moment of my life, and it’s been that way since, I think the first time when I r- realized that art was a path for me to navigate this often confusing grown-up world was when I was about eight years old. Mm-hmm. And, um, I was lucky enough to have parents that nurtured that and that encouraged that, that didn’t think it was odd or inappropriate. So I was lucky to have that nurtured in me, and I come from a family that has, women artists. So I have actually in my dining room a portrait of my great-grandmother who went to art school, and she was a painter. And so I also think it’s in my DNA to, to... I mean, it’s, it’s in everybody’s DNA to be who they are, but I think my awareness of that has become deeper and deeper as I age and I look back at the family that I come from that has supported who I am still becoming. Christina: Mm-hmm. Sarah: Um, and as an artist, I have chosen a medium to work in that is traditionally women’s work, and, um- for, for decades hasn’t even been recognized as artwork, that, weaving was domestic work. Um, but I’ve always felt that that was my medium. Mm-hmm. And since I was, since I was 19, I first learned to weave. Before I was 19, I was doing all the traditional things that a young art student might do, painting, sculpture, printmaking. In the early ‘70s there was a lot of installation art, except we didn’t call it that. It was happenings, and- Hmm ... just had a different name. Mm-hmm. And then the school that I went to, which was a two-year women’s college, which had a really strong art department, invited this local weaver to come in, and there was something about the, not just the technique, but the materials, that just resonated with me. And I always come back to my body as my teacher. And when something resonates in my body, whether it’s a color or a shape or a pattern or whatever, it’s like, it’s like almost like my body is, a, a bell, and when it resonates, that’s the signal to me that this is the right path or this is, this is where you need to go. So weaving really resonated with me, and I’ve continued to, to be on that path. I’ve dabbled in other things, But for me, it’s the, it’s the voice that I need to use to, to continue to dive into my own story. And I think part of that is because of the materials, they are, um, subject to all of the same things that our bodies are subject to. Becky: Hmm. Sarah: Moisture, uh, light, abrasion, all of those things tend to react with the materials just as our bodies do. Abrasion, sunlight, moisture. Um, and for me, that resonates with one of the core principles that I think is central to life, is impermanence and change. Not necessarily impermanence. I like to look at it more as metamorphosis- Hmm that, um, just things are always changing. And I’ll g- I’ll maybe get back to that, but I wanna stay with the, the why I’m doing what I do. Um, and the other part, as you honored, was the community work. And weaving is... When you, if you were to ask me my definition of what weaving is, it’s taking separate elements and putting them together in a structure. Hmm. So some kind of pattern. And I honestly believe that that’s what we are as human beings. We are individuals that come together in different patterns, whether it’s the pattern of the family or the pattern of school or whatever structure that is. So my community work is to kind of celebrate that and- I’ve taught for decades, and brought people together. I see my work in communities as a way to raise self-esteem, but also to, to help people find ways to talk to each other. That’s all it is, just a way to talk to each other on the platform of art. And you saw that in the workshop where you came with your kids, and people were sitting there talking. And- Mm-hmm ... they could have been doing anything, playing with clay or, you know, your material. Um, but one of the things about fabric is that it’s familiar. We, we have- we wear fabric. We’re- it’s so familiar that it’s not intimidating. Mm. So for a lot of people that say, “I can’t do art,” or whatever, but if you give them a couple of pieces of fabric, they may have a memory that comes out about that, or they may just start fiddling with it. Um, it’s, it’s less intimidating than if you put them with a pencil and paper and ask them to draw something. So I find that it is a way for people

    Always Becoming

  6. Jun 12

    Opening the aperture

    In this episode, we honor the wild ride of being human. Human beings are emotional creatures, yet we hide our true feelings so often. We discuss how emotion is designed to move through the body. Becky candidly shares the difference between now and then, when she used to habitually ignore a big feeling because she wasn’t aware of it in her body, and how now she is able to recognize her emotions and let them flow as they need to. Christina’s twins have taught her how to flow with the breadth of her humanity, sometimes needing to resort to screaming into pillows in a safe room away from crying babies. We discuss the grief that comes with transitions and how when we open the aperture on what we are willing to feel, everything washes through. Joy is felt, rage is felt, difficulty and lightness. Everything in life is in relationship. You cannot have light without dark. We navigate the difference between big and small ideas, and how we both sense a change in the current of universal flow of life right now. It’s asking each of us to connect with and honor the unique gifts and perspectives we are gifted from somewhere else and to trust that and boldly offer it to this world. Episode Transcript Christina: Yes. This is what it’s all about. I love hearing you describe, like, how it is to be, how it feels to be so fully alive. Because, uh, like, like even in the, in the podcast episode that I just recorded with Pat, he asked some specifics about, like, how to get to a place of noticing and if it was just something I came here with or what, and I was like, “Ah.” Like I’m actually... I don’t know if I’m the person. I would need help trying to figure out, like, how to get somewhere. I’m not someone who can be like, “Here are the three ways you get to learn how to notice,” you know? Ugh, but having things reflected back to me, like, I never noticed the bird song before, or I never noticed that I could, like, decide to have a conversation with someone before. These are what all of our conversations on noticing help me realize is, like, things that I would’ve found so obvious are really not obvious to, to many people. So it’s really helpful. Okay. I’ll tell Ashley you said hi. Bye. Becky: Welcome to Noticing, a podcast about nothing and everything same time. In this week’s episode, we honor the wild ride being human in all of our big emotions, our uncomfortable emotions, how we allow them to flow through us, how we scream them out, shake them out. We also talk about the grief that comes with transitions and how when we can open the aperture on what we’re willing to feel, everything washes through. Joy is felt, rage is felt, difficulty and lightness, because you can’t have light without the dark. So I hope you enjoy Christina: Um, I had a thought. Instead of you having to hold the grounding, do you want me to sing for us? Becky: Ah, yes. I do. Yeah. That’s beautiful. Yeah. Thank you for that Christina: Um, you ready? Okay Be nice Becky: Thank you Christina: It’s nice for me too. Becky: Mm. Yeah. I’m really, inspired by and excited to witness you, the speed at which you’re trusting yourself and just saying, “Thought? Yes.” Like, this just occurred to me, and here it comes. Christina: Mm-hmm. Becky: There’s no delay, and I love it. Christina: It’s, yeah, it’s very freeing because I was, literally as we just got on, I was like, “Huh, this probably makes sense. I’m gonna say it.” Becky: Yeah. Yeah. It just speaks to such a deep trust and an honoring of Whew. My emotions are like right on the surface today, so, uh, who knows where this is gonna go. But it just speaks to such a trust and an honoring of what’s gifted to you. It feels like a different relationship to thoughts and, and emotions and, and inspirations that feels very reverent of like this is a gift that just came to me. Um, and honoring it by letting it, letting it live. Letting it live, letting it come into life Christina: Yeah, I mean, I think these conversations have helped me, um, have helped me just trust things even more deeply. Yeah. I was trusting things pretty deeply already. Becky: Yeah. Christina: And, um, yeah, these conversations in addition to facilitating these, these energy sessions, it’s like I just hear myself more clearly. Yeah. In, in a collaborative way with like whatever wants to come through. It’s like I hear myself- Mm ... and it’s, it’s myself and it’s also not myself. Becky: Yeah. Christina: You know, like a knock. Knock, knock. Becky: Yeah. Christina: Yeah. Becky: I, I think what what strikes me is I recognize how- How many times in my life I have looked at th- the thoughts that come into my mind as a problem to be solved. And even in the world of, um, in the world of mindfulness and healing, you know, it can be like you have these intrusive thoughts or, you know, you have a busy mind, and it’s just such a reframe to look at even the in- intrusive thoughts as a gift, as something to, you know, be looked at. And sure, there might be work to change your relationship with it. Not every single thought is going to be like, um... Yeah, you have to be in a relationship with the thoughts to, to kinda discern where they’re coming from. Mm-hmm. But just that shift from like I’m broken with this busy mind to every thought that comes into your h- to your mind is a gift from something, and how can you work with them? And I recognize a lot of intrusive thoughts do not feel like gifts. So, um, I don’t know. It’s just kind of making me I feel like witnessing you say yes and honor the thought so quickly is making me kind of sit with my relationship to my own thoughts in a different way Christina: Yeah. I mean, I’m coming at this too as, as like a, as a, as someone who’s expresses thoughts creatively as a teacher. Like, my creative impulses have taught me how to listen to the rest of my thoughts more honestly. And so when I think about what you’re saying, I don’t really have intrusive thoughts, so I can’t really speak to that. But yeah, letting things through. It’s like at this point in my life at 40, there are things that I can remember thinking at 20 that I did not allow out. And they’re still around, so, like, clearly they wanna come through. Um, in fact, I was, I was, um, talking with... You know how when you’re in high school and you, you get asked to, like, interview somebody who is doing something that you might want to be doing in your future? Mm-hmm. And it’s a project. I had a, a really good friend of mine, her daughter interviewed me as an artist. She’s thinking maybe she wants to be an artist, and one of the questions that she asked me, was, um, “What advice would you give to someone who maybe wants to become an installation artist of some sort?” And I said, uh, “Don’t be afraid of your biggest ideas. Don’t be afraid of your ideas because the chances are they are in you because they want to come out of you.” ... I was just... It was just a quick answer in these, in this conversation with her, but then her mom, my good friend, came, um, and told me that that was the thing that landed the most for her. And she said, “You know, ‘cause I really do have these big ideas, Mom, and sometimes I wonder, like, are they too big? Are they too-” Mm ... whatever. So what a great thing, what a great permission slip for her to just not be afraid of those things. Yeah. Because that’s what I’m hearing loud and clear right now for myself, is just, like, those thoughts, they are... They’re coming from somewhere. Becky: They are. That, that’s what I believe. You know, where are they coming from? We d- I don’t have to know where, but I know it’s not from me. And as you’re speaking, I’m thinking of these times that we’re living in and the challenges we face. We don’t need small ideas. We need people’s biggest, most audacious ideas. So what a beautiful permission slip to give everyone. If you have a big idea coming through you, can you trust that that’s what the world needs? Christina: Yeah. Um, yes, and by being someone who actively shows that trust all the time, uh, I wanna be that type of person. I wanna be someone who shows people what it looks like to get an idea and trust it. Um- Yeah. It’s, it’s making me think of the fact, you know, we have this little group that we’re a part of that meets in my studio once a month, and we’re all sort of, we’re all thinking, we’re all playing around similar themes in what- we’re here to bring into the world. And the beautiful thing that I have been noticing is that the same, arguably the same big idea, if you think of it like hovering over all of us, will filter through each of us very differently. Becky: Yes. Christina: And that’s the point. Becky: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like Ashley, who’s in our group and who’s been on, on this podcast before said we’re all swimming in the same water, and that’s how it feels. But yeah, the way we swim is going to look very different. But you can feel it. You can feel this like we’re all kind of getting at the same thing. And I don’t even know if I could name what that same thing is. It just feels... Yeah, I th- I like the water metaphor ‘cause it does feel like, um... It makes me think of flow, and like we’re kind of all in the same flow, and that flow feels tied to a universal f- flow that I just feel deep in every fiber of my being is what wants to... what this time is all about. And I would never be so bold as to put words to what it is, ‘cause I think it’s a little bit beyond words, but I just feel it. There’s an awakening. There’s a change in the current of the flow of life right now. And, and what I know it’s asking of us, all of us, is for our big ideas, to trust our big ideas, to connect with and honor the very unique gifts and perspectives that we’re gifted from somewhere else, and to trust that and to bol

    Opening the aperture

  7. May 15

    Continual Edge and the Hollow Bone

    To mark the 20th episode, we came together without a guest. When we began this podcast 10 months ago, it was in response to a nudge we both had to just begin. Each episode has deepened us. We’ve planted seeds together and apart. We have leapt. For the first half of the episode, Becky shares how she and her family are moving to Maine where she suspects her creative energy will root and anchor her to the queasiness of uncertainty. We discuss what it feels like to be unmoored, how Pema Chodron teaches that change is constant, and the queasiness of uncertainty never goes away; only our relationship to it does. Both of us find ourselves unanchored right now, living life on an edge and learning to be there and stay in flow. Spoiler alert, it is destabilizing, difficult, and wonderful. In the second half of the episode, Christina shares candidly that her life is transforming in front of her, how through a series of events over the last six months, she has remembered that she is a healer. Lifelong mysticism and recent art installations in places of healing led her to this place. She notices light and makes art, and now when she touches people, she notices light move through them. This realization is asking her to see the world and her place in it differently. Christina shares how in many ways this shocks her while also feeling like the truest thing she has ever felt. As Terry Tempest Williams says, “what is mysticism but paying attention?” Go deeper into this episode * Watch Pema Chödrön discuss the queasy feeling and using uncertainty as the practice: * Read Christina’s latest substack (and subscribe if you aren’t already!) * Read Liturgies of the Wild by Martin Shaw, which contains the quote about geography as fate * Listen to The Nature Of podcast episode with Terry Tempest Williams: https://atmos.earth/podcast/uncovering-the-holy-ordinary-with-terry-tempest-williams/ * And PLEASE go look at the image of the 3D Universe!!! Every dot of light is an entire galaxy….and this is only an image of a very small segment of the observable Universe!!! https://noirlab.edu/public/images/noirlab2610a/zoomable/ Episode Transcript Christina: I am on my way to go see my grandmother. Um, she’s waiting for me. So I’m going, and, um, I just read this message, and I love this. It’s very much how I see the world. Like, I-- It, it, it reminds me too of like I believe that I am God and you are God. And so the eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me. It’s all saying the same beautiful thing where there is no separation and, um... Yeah. It’s like I-- It’s so, it’s so real. I don’t even have anything else to say because it’s just so correct. Becky: Welcome to Noticing: A Podcast About Nothing And Everything At The Same Time. To mark our 20th episode, Christina and I decided that it would be a good time to come back together again without a guest. So in this conversation, we talk about my upcoming move to Maine and what it’s like to live on a continual edge. In the second part of the conversation, Christina talks about some truly transformative things that have been happening in her life. Events that have felt both miraculous and obvious at the same time. To allow for a little more space for my upcoming move, we’re going to be taking a little bit of a break and coming back for the next episode on June 12. And in the meantime, I hope you enjoy We’re back. We’re back together. Christina: I know. It’s just the two of us now. It- we- we’re at episode 20, right? Becky: Episode 20. Christina: It was nice. You know, for a while it was ... Like, we established this together and it felt really good. Mm-hmm. And then it started to feel like maybe we could include some others. And then when we included others, that felt really good, and it still feels really good, but it’s kinda nice we both had the same inkling to just drop in a, a duo. You know? Becky: A du- kinda catch up with life, catch up with ... Um, things have changed a lot. So it’s been 10 months. So 20 episodes, 10 months. Mm. And yeah. Wow. Christina: ... You know, even between episodes I feel like we’ve been making these massive leaps in ourselves and just ... Yeah. I mean, you’re, you’re about to move here. Becky: Yeah, it’s been, like, the most obvious and easy and effortless journey, and also moments of what is happening. It, it’s like, it’s definitely all the feelings. I’ve been reflecting a lot on this lately because I’ve been feeling so ... Untethered is the word that I’ve been using, where I just feel strange, you know? Because there aren’t the rhythms and routines that I had before because we’re in the process of moving. So I’ve just been sitting with this untethered feeling, and I stumbled upon this, interview with Pema Chödrön, and she was talking about getting used to the queasiness. I like this word that she used, the queasiness of uncertainty, and how uncertainty is actually the practice. So yeah, I’ve been really sitting with that, of, of it’s an uncertain time in my life, but it’s also such an uncertain time now. But as she was reminding, reminding me, I re-listened to it last night, uh, that life is always uncertain, that it feels particularly, untethered and uncertain right now, but it’s... That’s not... This is, this is actually the truth of life, is there are no certainties in life. We can, fall into a sense of, control and a sense of something to grasp onto. Hmm. And we certainly try as humans. So I’ve been really feeling like this untethered feeling, this queasiness, is actually what it feels like to be fully alive. Christina: Mm-hmm. It’s really interesting that you bring that up first because, nobody knows this because we don’t usually share it on here, but we always start with a grounding meditation together. And in this grounding meditation this morning, I had this sense that I was a blade of grass in a field of grasses blowing around, and I was thinking like, “Ah. I actually- ... don’t really want to.” Like, I don’t wanna blow. I just... And then I was thinking, like, it’s frustrating to be a human being as a blade of grass because you think there’s so many other things that you need to be doing, and you’re actually not n- not used to, you know, being at the whims of the weather, and that’s what it feels like right now. That’s what I hear you describing. Hmm. That’s what... I talked to a parent yesterday as we were waiting for our kids to be done with tennis lessons. We talked about that. We talked about how it is so uncomfortable to- Mm-hmm ... be unmoored, untethered, unanchored. And yet those are the times in life typically when so much growth happens. Mm-hmm. And, sometimes life will just push you into that feeling, that situation that causes that feeling. Sometimes you will willingly leap, and that is also hard. Um, I’m here too. A lot of people are here right now. And it’s, you know, it’s, it’s everywhere. I mean, you g- you guys, when you were thinking about moving, there was a lot of thinking about it for a lot of time leading up to it, and a lot of, like, testing the waters, coming up here to live for a month, and doing all of this life research or, or that’s maybe how I would describe it, and then you just leapt, right? Mm-hmm. Becky: Yeah. Christina: And I think there’s always that moment of you can’t research your way to perfect clarity. And at some point you just have to decide to do the thing. And when you do the thing, you’re still leaping. Like I’ve been, saying no to a lot of things that I had said yes to for years, two years probably at this point. And, life s- is s- seems to be giving me an, a, a, an out because this series that I’ve worked on since the beginning of my art career that, like, put me on the map, and got me a cushy life as an artist making an income that served me well, which is more than many artists can say, and I’m aware of that. This series I think has found its inevitable ending- Because the glue that I use to install it with, which is the only thing I’ve ever found that works fully, is completely discontinued. It’s like- Oh ... not being made anymore. And so I’ve had... I’ve found all of these side roads. In COVID, it stopped being made in the form that I needed, so I would just buy these huge caulking guns full of it and, and I found these empty tubes that, like, lotion manufacturers probably buy. And I would squee- I would use a caulking gun and, like, squeeze my own tubes and tape them up and label them and, um, I can’t even do that anymore. And- Becky: Mm ... Christina: the woman who helps me, a friend of mine helps me make these individual pieces now, and, she’s moving. So she’s not close to me anymore, and it’s just like, well, shit. Okay, I can’t do this. I have to actually release this safety net. It’s not comfortable. No. It’s been the safety net that has provided me with financial security, ‘cause I can always kind of say like, “Yeah, I can do that. That can, like, fund the new ideas.” I, I feel like I’m someone who has a lot of faith in life- Mm-hmm ... and it’s still uncomfortable. Becky: Yeah, I mean, even Pema Chödrön was talking about, uh, the interviewer was asking her, “Does that feeling ever go away, that queasy feeling?” Mm. And she was like, “ no. ... the things that would give you the queasy feeling in the past tend to not evoke that same queasiness,” to use her language, “but you’re always at an edge, you know?” Yeah. Hopefully, I think life wants us to always be on an edge, always growing, a growth edge. Mm. So when you hit those edges,... that feeling’s never gonna go away, and I... and what she said was, and what I’ve been playing with for years, but just in a different language, is now it’s like when she gets the queasy feeling, it’s, it’s excitement because she knows- Yea

    Continual Edge and the Hollow Bone

  8. May 1

    Bless the Foolish Ideas

    In this week’s episode, we speak to Jenny O’Connell, a woman who has always lived in the world with her entire body. She is a writer, naturalist, outdoor guide, ultimate frisbee player, and fierce lover of the world who reminds us to leap. What feels remarkable about this conversation is how many times Jenny had faith in her life and acted accordingly. By radiating from her bright center, Jenny beckons us to reflect on the story of our own lives. What would it feel like to write our life story as we live it? She is an apt guide; her adventure memoir WILDHEART comes out on June 1, 2027 with DK Books at Penguin Random House. Jenny identifies many moments where her life caught her, pulling her like a hook behind her belly button in a new and surprising direction, notably the time when a short conversation with a neighbor’s elderly mother changed the course of her life. Her intuition was strong enough, she says, that thankfully she was always willing to pivot where life asked her to go. Jenny sees this moment as one where she can reignite our collective heart sparks and invite us into our own wildness, which as we discuss in this episode, can take many forms. Jenny shows how stories catalyze something deep within us, and we believe her story of wildness and homecoming will arrive into your hearts as both a catalyst and an invitation. How do we, as women, fill the room with our own power? How do we protect our sovereignty? Dare to let Jenny’s aliveness catalyze something in you. Dare to ask what form wildness takes. This invitation can be as quiet or loud as you need it to be, because after all, as Jenny kindly reminds us, “we are a creature that forgets we’re alive all the time.” For more of Jenny, check out her: Website Instagram Jenny is also on Substack! Subscribe below: A few other inspirations from this week’s episode: “Writing a woman’s life” by Katherine Heilbrun “Women who run with the wolves” by Clarissa Pinkola Estés The John O’Donohue episode of On Being Christina references Episode Transcript Christina: You know what’s cool about just staying with a feeling is, well, like sometimes, first of all, sometimes you have to like figure out where that feeling lives. And then once you get it to just be like, oh yeah, hey, I see you. I see you fear. Hello. I am afraid of this thing. And then, like, I feel so much lighter now that I’ve addressed it. Um, not to say that it’s done, but it was really great to identify like, oh, I think actually this thing is holding me back. And then to, to figure out why and releasing that, you know, like I know that everything changes. Everything changes. So when I think about like, what if I could go reach out into the world to do what I’m meant to do in large or small ways and then to come back and be fully present in this place, um, rather than trying to like squeeze the large and small ways into this place? It’s an interesting thought. Um, and yeah, Jessie Buckley came to mind because I remember seeing like a quick clip of her speaking with the chick who played Alphaba in Wicked in the movie. And that actress was saying like, “I always watch your roles, Jessie, and I feel like worried about you. Are you okay? ‘Cause you throw so much of yourself in them.” And Jessie Buckley’s answer was like, “Yeah, my life is so simple. So I’m able to go and throw my whole self into these roles because I come back to like this really nourishing, simple, grounded place, um, where I build everything back up again. Becky: Welcome to Noticing: A Podcast About Nothing And Everything At The Same Time. In this week’s episode, we speak to Jenny O’Connell, a woman who has always lived in the world with her entire body. She’s a writer, a naturalist, outdoor guide, ultimate Frisbee player, and a fierce lover of the world who reminds us all to leap. What felt remarkable about this conversation is how many times Jenny had faith in her life and acted accordingly. I know it inspired me and I hope it inspires you. I hope you enjoy. Christina: I have the pleasure of introducing a dear friend today. Jenny O’Connell is someone who wrote straight into my Soul and I saw her writing in, in many ways, and I think we started following each other’s newsletters or something, or Instagrams or something. It doesn’t really matter. It was just a very pointed feeling and every time I read something she wrote, I felt this is someone who was cut from the same cloth that I am. And I actually, that’s a very big deal for me to say that because I’ve never met someone that I’ve found. So closely seemed to metabolize the world like I did, and share it with a abandon. Like I feel I must someone who can tap, joy and aliveness in the way that I feel I am able to do, in a world where like I don’t, I don’t see a lot of people doing that. And then one day, I don’t remember who asked who it, it might have been me, we just decided like, can we just go sit on a beach? And it was the end of springtime, so the water was still cold. And I had seen her as someone who sometimes gets in the Cold Sea and and I said, maybe we could just go to the beach and. Just see what happens. And so we did, and it was, I will use your words back at you, Jenny, when you say like, you know, when your life just catches you sometimes being on the beach with Jenny felt like my life was catching me because we immediately went to like a deep thread that we both shared. And meeting a stranger when you can get so immediately real with them is, um pretty uncommon. And since then, uh, we have just, our friendship has deepened and it’s always been supported and incredibly authentic and refreshing to me in this life. And I am thrilled to talk to Jenny today. Becky knows you now as well. And yeah, there’s so much more I could say, but, but just meeting someone who feels like a true kindred spirit in a way, unlike anyone I’d ever met, is what I would call you. Jenny O’Connell. Jenny: Oh, so good to be here. Christina, can you just introduce me for everything I do for now? That was the most heartfelt introduction. Christina: Yeah. Jenny: There’ve been like 40 cold dips since, and I’m so glad about it. Christina: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Um, and actually I was thinking, uh, ‘cause you know, I, I’ve mentioned it here before and probably to you in real life, but, um, I read Mary Oliver. I have her Devotions book, which has a selection of lots of different, pieces, pieces of poetry from different books she’s published throughout her lifetime. And I read it to my daughters before bed. And I have one that I’d love to read because it, it, it was, it reminded me of you. And then we can just go. So here it’s, it’s called The other Kingdoms. Consider the other kingdoms, the trees, for example, with their mellow sounding titles. Oak, Aspen, Willow, or the Snow for which the peoples of the North have dozens of words to describe its different arrivals or the creatures with their thick fur, their shy and wordless gaze, their infallible sense of what their lives are meant to be. Thus, the world grows rich grows wild, and you two grow rich, grow sweetly wild as you two were born to be. Jenny: Hmm. Christina, I can’t believe you picked that one because, that quote, the end of that poem, just those last two lines, are listed as an epigraph in the draft of my book right now that I have, uh, grow sweetly wild. Christina: Mm. I mean, that feels like. I mean, nobody even knows that you have a book. Do you wanna start talking about, I mean, I didn’t tell, I didn’t list, we purposefully don’t list people’s accolades or things. It’s um, yeah. So you’re a writer. Jenny: Um, yeah. Yeah. Well I love that. I love that you just start with the connection and it grows from there. But since you’re my friend, you also know that this is basically all I can talk about right now because I am in the process of finishing it. I have been writing a book for 10 years it’s a adventure memoir, it’s called Wild Heart. And it follows a journey that I took back in 2014, when I met. It was based in a meeting I had with a woman who was a legend in Finnish Lapland. I was, I’m a big zig zacker. I started as a musician. I, studied music in college and then I fell in love with the natural world and just, I’ve always been in love with it. But, when I came out of college, I just kept getting these nudges like, you need to go outside. You need to be outside. You need to be moving your body outside. You need to be connecting to place. And so I did a 180 from my music education career and ended up becoming an outdoor guide. And I moved to San Francisco to this national recreation area just outside the city where I taught, as a naturalist, and started to get into outdoor guiding around California as well. And it was such a strong pull. And when I met, uh, the woman’s name was Petronella, I was 26 years old, and I had been, following this poll from wild places from nature to connect. And I had been really reorienting my sense of the world around that. And I was just starting to wake up to some of the ways that I had been, for lack of a better word, tamed by my society. Ways that I had, been taught to live or to think about what I could expect from my life. And I was craving something wilder and I didn’t know how to do it. I, you know, was looking for examples. And my friend down the hill from where I lived in this coastal village in California, was taking care of her 89-year-old mother who had dementia. And so I just brought over quiche and a bottle of wine one night. And the first thing that her mother said to me, she looked at me and she said, I walked to Lapland and I was 26 and foolish enough to jump, you know? Becky: Yes. Jenny: Um, which like, may I still be, please? Im 39. Um, but I just had this moment. It was something else passed between us, like something more than just conversation. There was li

    Bless the Foolish Ideas
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Noticing is a series of intimate conversations between long time friends Becky DeCicco and Christina Watka. Born out of consecutive months of deep conversation through voice memos during their paralleled years of awakening, Noticing explores the myriad of ways we can all acknowledge the mystery and live more fully in presence. DeCicco draws from her experience as a mindfulness teacher and lifelong lover of everything cosmic, spiritual, and religious while Watka comes from a background steeped heavily in the arts and a mind-body-spirit connection that naturally orients towards light. Through these conversations, they aspire to remind every person that our differences are what help us find a home in self, and only once we embody this authenticity can we seed the world we want to inhabit. noticingpod.substack.com

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