In the Counsel's Chair

The Daily Journal
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Introducing In the Counsel's Chair, a new podcast from the Daily Journal. We talk to legal leaders about how they shape their world — and ours. Throughout this series, we'll sit down with leaders across the legal landscape — from private practice to the public sector and beyond — to discuss how they built their careers, the major trends and issues they're witnessing, and the leadership roles they play.

  1. 1d ago

    Is your AI use putting your trade secrets at risk? | ITCC

    On this episode of In the Counsel's Chair, host Jack Needham talks with Knobbe Martens partners Benjamin Katzenellenbogen and Bryan McWhorter about how AI is testing trade secret law. They explain what qualifies as a trade secret under federal and California law and why trade secret protection has grown in importance. They also cover the two sides of the AI risk: confidential information that employees put into AI tools, which can lose protection depending on a provider's terms of service, and AI-generated output, which often can't be patented or copyrighted without a human creator. The guests discuss what early court decisions suggest, how the "readily ascertainable" standard may play out when AI can be prompted to reveal information, and why companies should build workable AI use policies rather than banning the tools outright. In this episode • Trade secret basics • How AI puts trade secrets at risk • Terms of service and private AI models • What courts have said so far • Protecting AI-generated output • Will the rules change? • Building workable AI use policies Guests Benjamin A. Katzenellenbogen, partner, Knobbe Martens Katzenellenbogen serves as Chair of Knobbe Martens' Design Patent Litigation practice and Co-Chair of the Trade Secret Litigation practice. He has been litigating patent, trademark, trade secret and other intellectual property disputes for more than 25 years. Ben handles cases throughout the litigation process, from inception through trial, and appeal. Bryan McWhorter, partner, Knobbe Martens McWhorter focuses on patent procurement and dispute resolution, particularly for companies in the software, telecommunications, and food and beverage areas. His practice includes all aspects of patent development and acquisition for both utility and design patents, including identifying patentable concepts, drafting patent applications, and negotiating with patent offices to gain allowance of applications.

    Is your AI use putting your trade secrets at risk? | ITCC

  2. Oct 5

    Narain Maclear: Building a tech-driven firm with trial-ready young lawyers | ITCC

    Sabrina Narain and Amy Maclear met as defense counsel for a shared client and quickly became friends. Within months of deciding to start a firm together, they launched Narain Maclear LLP. On this episode of In the Counsel's Chair, they join host Jack Needham to talk about building a firm around technology and process. They explain how analytics from a high-volume consumer warranty docket shape litigation strategy and why corporate clients now expect outside counsel to use AI. They also discuss why they put first- and second-year lawyers in front of juries, how judges are pushing firms to let junior attorneys argue, and why courtroom advocacy is one skill AI can't replace. Episode chapters 00:00 — Introductions00:26 — From friends to co-founders02:00 — Their practice backgrounds03:00 — Designing a firm around innovation04:12 — Hiring for strengths, not job titles06:05 — What they look for in a remote team07:46 — Launching at scale09:16 — Are they an AI-native firm?09:50 — Turning litigation data into strategy12:11 — Why clients expect AI from outside counsel13:14 — Judges giving junior lawyers the floor16:32 — Why firms hold young talent back17:54 — Training first-year trial lawyers21:13 — Advocacy skills AI can't teach22:39 — Why trial lawyers will last23:35 — Remote hearings and remote work26:15 — Will they ever try a case together?

    Narain Maclear: Building a tech-driven firm with trial-ready young lawyers | ITCC

  3. Sep 22

    AI in M&A: Due diligence and the new reps and warranties | ITCC

    On this episode of In the Counsel's Chair, host Jack Needham talks with Buchalter partners Philip Nulud and Jonathan B. Wilson about how AI is reshaping M&A. They cover the questions buyers and their counsel should now ask in due diligence, including whether AI was used to develop code or other IP, who owns the training data, and whether the target has an AI governance policy. They also discuss how reps and warranties are evolving to address AI risk, the confidentiality pitfalls of public-facing AI tools, and the unsettled questions around protecting AI-generated IP. Guests on this episode: Philip Nulud is a partner in Buchalter's Los Angeles office, where he chairs the firm's Luxury Brand Industry Practice and co-chairs its Internet Law, E-Commerce & Social Media Industry Practice. For nearly two decades, he has helped clients protect and monetize their trademarks and other intellectual property, focusing on the fashion, apparel, retail and consumer products space. His clients include apparel brands, couture fashion houses, streetwear brands, footwear manufacturers, licensing agencies, retailers, celebrities, athletes, influencers, and beauty and wellness companies. He has handled thousands of domestic and international trademarks and advises on patents, copyrights, licensing, marketing and advertising, social media influencers and domain names. Jonathan B. Wilson is a partner in Buchalter's Atlanta office and a member of the firm's corporate practice group. In more than 34 years of practice, he has represented startups and Fortune 100 companies in corporate finance and governance, securities, mergers and acquisitions, strategic alliances, product distribution, intellectual property, computer software and litigation management. His IP licensing work includes trademark, patent and software licensing, OEM and white-label agreements, and IP-related joint ventures. He has served as general counsel or chief legal officer of two publicly traded companies. He was the founding chair of the American Bar Association Public Utility Section's Internet Industry Committee, which he led for more than a decade, and later founded the section's Renewable Energy Committee. He is the author of "The Corporate Transparency Act Compliance Guide" (Matthew Bender, 2023) and "FinCEN Reporting for Residential Real Estate" (2025).

    AI in M&A: Due diligence and the new reps and warranties | ITCC

  4. Jul 22

    ITCC: The surprising power of running a law firm like a tech startup

    In this episode of In the Counsel's Chair, discover how Joshua White, CEO and founder of Laurel Employment Law, is challenging traditional law firm practices by emphasizing company culture, technological adoption, and a business-oriented mindset. This episode explores the potential for law firms to operate more like innovative startups, emphasizing fun, optimism, and data-driven strategies. Main topics: Transition from traditional law firms to a culture-driven, entrepreneurial approach The importance of defining company values rooted in optimism and authenticity Incorporating AI and data to optimize legal workflows and improve efficiency Building a law firm that attracts talent by fostering a positive environment Lessons from the tech industry on running a competitive, innovative business The value of cross-industry experience in transforming legal practice Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Josh White's background and law career 01:30 - Transition from litigation to corporate strategy at Bamco 02:55 - How Bamco became a leading brand in promotional products 04:04 - Key legal challenges during rapid company growth 05:09 - Motivation for starting Laurel Employment Law 06:14 - Critique of traditional law firm models and industry issues 07:21 - Why legal departments aren't typically run like innovative companies 08:02 - The competitive advantage of running law firms like businesses 09:28 - Addressing law firm culture and lawyer happiness 10:34 - Creating an environment of fun, authenticity, and radical optimism 11:25 - Practical steps to embed a positive culture from day one 12:21 - Leading with enthusiasm and managing serious work with a light touch 13:23 - Embracing failure and learning through experimentation 14:29 - Hiring for optimism and authentic cultural fit 15:58 - The importance of personal transformation and moldability 17:02 - Reversing the cultural shame around mistakes 17:44 - Examples of fostering a serious yet fun work environment 19:20 - The role of data and AI in modern legal practice 20:34 - Building a tech-first, data-driven law firm 22:43 - The future of AI and continuous innovation 24:07 - Differences between law firms and tech companies 26:38 - The influence of successful tech industry practices on legal services 28:22 - Is a startup mentality essential for law firm success? 29:26 - The value of experience outside traditional legal environments 30:46 - Customizing law firm culture to match personal values 31:43 - Practical advice for building unique, authentic legal businesses For more content, visit www.dailyjournal.com/network Submit comments/feedback to network@dailyjournal.com

    ITCC: The surprising power of running a law firm like a tech startup

  5. Jul 10

    ITTC: FPPC Chair Adam Silver on money, ethics and California elections

    In this episode of In the Counsel's Chair, host Jack Needham sits down with Adam Silver, chair of the Fair Political Practices Commission, California's campaign finance and ethics watchdog. Appointed by Gov. Gavin Newsom in 2024, Silver traces the agency's roots to Proposition 9, the post-Watergate ballot measure that created the FPPC and some of the strictest campaign finance and ethics rules in the country -- rules his office is now charged with enforcing in the age of AI. The conversation ranges from AB 2355, the surviving bill from a package of three targeting deepfakes and AI-generated campaign ads, to how the commission is exploring technology to flag potential campaign money laundering and warn public officials of conflicts before they happen. Along the way, Silver explains why the agency's priority is transparency before an election rather than penalties after it, and why the appearance of impropriety can damage public trust as much as the real thing. Highlights: • The FPPC's post-Watergate origins and its role as the state's campaign finance and ethics watchdog • AB 2355 and enforcing disclaimer rules for AI-generated or AI-modified campaign ads • Using AI to flag patterns of possible campaign money laundering • A tool to warn officials of potential conflicts between their financial disclosures and upcoming agenda items • Why transparency before the election takes priority • The legislation Silver's office sponsored to ban campaign contributions inside state buildings

    ITTC: FPPC Chair Adam Silver on money, ethics and California elections

  6. Jul 7

    ITCC: Joshua Robbins on rethinking trial advocacy

    In this episode of In the Counsel's Chair, host Jack Needham sits down with Joshua Robbins, a partner in the Orange County office of Crowell & Moring, to talk about a different way of thinking about trial advocacy. A former federal prosecutor who began his career in international arbitration, Robbins explains how working in systems with limited discovery taught him to prepare for trial from day one, make more with less, and build cases around contemporaneous documents — witnesses that "don't forget and don't lie and don't have motives." The conversation ranges from the Tom Goldstein tax trial and what it reveals about juror skepticism toward polished performers, to the document-heavy Musk v. Altman verdict, to Robbins' experience teaching trial advocacy at UC Irvine School of Law. Along the way, he makes the case that the craft is less about courtroom theatrics than about narrative discipline: distilling business disputes into moral concepts jurors intuitively grasp, and knowing which evidence to leave out. Highlights: Why early exposure to international arbitration and criminal prosecution shaped an evidence-first approach to civil litigation The Tom Goldstein trial: how jurors' built-in skepticism punishes testimony that reads as a performance Building cases on documents and letting witnesses narrate them — not the other way around The Miles Davis quote he cites: five or six key documents matter more than hundreds of exhibits The hardest skill to teach young lawyers: listening and reacting in real time instead of clinging to the script

    ITCC: Joshua Robbins on rethinking trial advocacy

  7. Mar 19

    ITCC: Learned Hand founder Shlomo Klapper on AI's role in the judge's chambers

    Los Angeles County Superior Court announced Wednesday that a select group of its judges will begin using AI tools to help prepare and manage cases — a first for the largest trial court in the nation. We sat down with Shlomo Klapper, the founder and CEO of Learned Hand and the man behind that initiative, to find out what it means for judges, lawyers and the justice system when AI enters the courtroom. A former clerk on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit and litigator at Quinn Emanuel, Klapper built Learned Hand around a simple argument: courts are under-resourced, backlogs are growing, and an incoming wave of AI-generated litigation is about to make things significantly worse. In this episode, he breaks down how the technology works, why tools built for lawyers don't translate to the bench, and what it will take to deliver on the promise of equal justice. We also get into the hard questions — how Learned Hand addresses concerns about algorithmic bias, what safeguards protect the confidentiality of case materials, and what the rise of AI means for the future of lawyering itself.

    ITCC: Learned Hand founder Shlomo Klapper on AI's role in the judge's chambers

  8. Mar 3

    ITCC: Melanie Chaney on why LCW built its own chatbot (and the future of mid-size law)

    Mid-size law firms are getting squeezed from both ends. Big law has the capital to invest in AI and the salaries to attract top talent. Boutiques can specialize tightly and move fast. So where does that leave everyone in the middle? Melanie Chaney, firm-wide managing partner of Liebert Cassidy Whitmore, has a front-row seat to that question. LCW has grown from 45 attorneys to 120 over the past two decades, and Chaney — just a few months into her tenure leading the firm — is candid about the challenges that come with that position in the market: recruitment, AI costs, and figuring out how junior attorneys develop their skills when the tasks they used to learn on are being automated away. In this episode of In the Counsel's Chair, she makes the case that mid-size firms still have a real value proposition — but that a long track record is no excuse to stop innovating. About Melanie: Melanie L. Chaney is the Firm-wide Managing Partner of Liebert Cassidy Whitmore, California’s leading education, public sector, nonprofit, and labor & employment law firm serving public agencies, educational institutions, and nonprofits. She brings decades of experience advising cities, school districts, and public safety departments on complex and high-stakes labor relations matters. Her practice includes collective bargaining under the MMBA and EERA, handling labor disputes before the California Public Employment Relations Board, and representing public entities in employment litigation in state and federal court. She also conducts workplace investigations, counsels agencies on personnel policies, and regularly provides training on labor and employment issues.

    ITCC: Melanie Chaney on why LCW built its own chatbot (and the future of mid-size law)
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Introducing In the Counsel's Chair, a new podcast from the Daily Journal. We talk to legal leaders about how they shape their world — and ours. Throughout this series, we'll sit down with leaders across the legal landscape — from private practice to the public sector and beyond — to discuss how they built their careers, the major trends and issues they're witnessing, and the leadership roles they play.

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