Power of OR - A podcast by and for Christian business leaders who want to be Spirit-led

Brad Hawkins & Jim Brangenberg
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Our goal with every Power of OR Podcast is to provide a lively, unfiltered, unedited, unfettered, and unscripted conversation with a businessperson. We will explore their daily work and see if we can uncover a powerful "Or" moment facing our guest. Our goal is to access the wisdom of God for the solutions man seeks. With hosts Brad Hawkins (SaferNet.com) & Jim Brangenberg (iWork4Him).

  1. 6d ago

    Ep 20: When God Changes Your Flight Plan

    Featuring: John Ramstead  Organizations: Beyond Influence; Hangar X Studios  What do you do when the life you've worked for suddenly disappears?  In this compelling conversation, former Navy fighter pilot, entrepreneur, and speaker John Ramstead shares how God met him through unexpected disappointments, life-altering setbacks, and moments that completely changed the trajectory of his life.  Rather than allowing loss to define him, John discovered that God's plans are often revealed in the very places where our own plans fall apart. His story is a powerful reminder that every setback presents an opportunity to trust the One who sees the bigger picture.  In this episode, you'll hear:  How mentorship helped John rise to the top of Navy flight training  What it was like flying F-14 Tomcats during the Gulf War  The freak accident that ended his military aviation career just before Top Gun  Why losing his identity led him to discover his true identity in Christ  The mentor God used to lead him into a personal relationship with Jesus  How God transformed his perspective on marriage, success, and purpose  John's extraordinary encounter with Christ after a near-fatal horseback riding accident  Why learning to trust God's character changes the way we face life's greatest disappointments  How Romans 8:28 became the foundation for navigating every unexpected turn  No matter what dreams have been delayed, disrupted, or lost, this conversation is a powerful reminder that God is present in every chapter of our lives and that even our greatest disappointments can become part of His greater purpose.

  2. Jul 21

    Ep 19: Discovering God's Purpose in Every Season

    Featuring: Russell Jenson  Ministry: Leadership Training  What happens when you've spent decades building a successful career but then God invites you into something you never expected?  In this episode of The Power of OR Podcast, Brad Hawkins and Jim Brangenberg sit down with leadership coach and entrepreneur Russell Jenson to explore the defining decisions that shaped his journey. From the classroom to corporate leadership development, Russell shares how one unexpected opportunity led him to create a unique escape room business that revealed something fascinating: true leadership often emerges from the people you'd least expect.  After successfully building and selling that business, Russell found himself facing another defining OR moment: pursue a comfortable next chapter or remain open to whatever assignment God had prepared next.  Together, the conversation explores how leaders discern God's direction, why our greatest opportunities often begin with uncertainty, and how faithful leadership is less about having the entire plan and more about taking the next obedient step.  What You'll Hear in This Episode  How an educator became an entrepreneur through an unexpected opportunity   The leadership lessons Russell discovered by watching teams navigate escape rooms   Why the best leaders aren't always the ones with the highest titles   The OR moment that came after selling a successful business   How to discern God's leading when the next step isn't obvious   Why every season of leadership requires a willingness to let go of good things to embrace better ones   Practical wisdom for leading with purpose, influence, and faith wherever God places you   Whether you're launching something new, leading an organization, or standing at a crossroads, this episode is a reminder that leadership is built one decision at a time. The most significant OR moments rarely come with a complete roadmap, but they always offer an opportunity to trust God with what's next!

  3. Jul 7

    Ep 18: When Obedience Costs More Than You Expected

    Featuring: Drew Martin  Org: Mighty Motion Pictures  What do you do when following God's leading seems to leave your life in pieces?  In this episode of The Power of OR Podcast, filmmaker Drew Martin, founder of Mighty Motion Pictures, shares the remarkable journey that reshaped his faith. After decades of creating documentaries that boldly championed truth, Drew found himself facing financial collapse, betrayal, and the end of his marriage.  Rather than questioning God's faithfulness, Drew discovered a deeper invitation: to trust God's purposes even when the outcome made no sense.  What You'll Hear in This Episode  How Drew seeks God's direction in every creative endeavor  Why God's calling often requires perseverance through unexpected hardship  The spiritual realities behind media, culture, and today's most important issues  How an eternal perspective changes the way we view loss and suffering  Why our identity in Christ matters more than our circumstances  A compelling challenge for men to build a legacy that lasts beyond their careers  This conversation isn't just for filmmakers. It's for anyone who has experienced disappointment, loss, or seasons when obedience seemed far more costly than expected.  If you've ever wondered whether God was still at work in the middle of hardship – or questioned whether the sacrifice was worth it – Drew's story offers a powerful reminder that God's greatest work often happens long before we can see the results.  Sometimes the greatest act of faith isn't seeing the next step. It's continuing to walk in obedience when the path ahead is anything but clear.

  4. Jun 23

    Ep 17: Disqualified by Man OR Qualified by God?: Repentance, Restoration, and Global Ministry Impact

    Featuring: Blake Mattocks  Org: 365 Christian Stories What do you do when your entire world collapses – and you're the reason it did?  In this deeply honest conversation, Blake Mattocks shares the defining OR moment that changed everything: protect his reputation and cling to what was familiar or bring his failure into the light and trust God with whatever came next. That decision – costly, humbling, and obedient – became the doorway to unexpected healing and a global ministry impacting millions.  This episode reminds us that the Power of OR often appears in moments of surrender, not strategy.  The OR Moment  Blake faced a choice many leaders quietly fear:  hide, manage, and preserve a powerful position  OR repent, resign, and let God rebuild from the ground up  Choosing obedience over self-protection didn't end his calling – it redefined it.  Key Takeaways  How crisis reveals whether we trust our plans or God's provision  Why repentance is a decision, but healing is a process  The danger of longing for what God is asking you to leave behind  How surrender creates space for God to lead step by step  Why God sometimes removes a single source of provision to invite deeper trust  What it looks like to follow God without a clear roadmap  From Collapse to Calling  Out of loss, uncertainty, and daily dependence, 365 Christian Stories was born – spreading stories of redemption across more than 100 countries, without a marketing strategy or monetization plan. A powerful reminder that God's work advances through obedience, not control.  For the Listener Wrestling with a Decision  If you're standing at a crossroads – clinging to security, reputation, or certainty – this episode offers hope. God doesn't always reveal the full plan, but He is faithful to guide those willing to choose His way.   The most powerful decisions are rarely comfortable, but when we choose God's way, He does more than restore. He transforms!

  5. Jun 9

    Ep 16: Your Job Isn't Just a Job

    Featuring: Jim Brangenberg  Org: iWork4Him  For years, Jim Brangenberg thought ministry happened primarily inside the church. Then God transformed his understanding of work, showing him that the workplace is one of the greatest mission fields in the world.  In this special episode of The Power of Or, host Brad Hawkins turns the microphone around and interviews co-host Jim about the experiences, convictions, and calling that led to the founding of iWork4Him. Jim shares how prayer, discipleship, and a fresh perspective on Scripture changed the way he viewed work – and why he believes every believer has a God-given assignment, both before and after retirement.  What You'll Hear in This Episode  How a daily prayer habit transformed Jim's view of work  The origins of iWork4Him and its mission to connect faith and work  Why every workplace can be a mission field  Lessons learned from interviewing more than 5,000 guests  The difference between discipleship as a program and discipleship as a lifestyle  How Jim and wife Martha have partnered in ministry for decades  Why retirement is not the end of your assignment, but the beginning of a new one  If you've ever wondered whether your work truly matters to God, this conversation offers a compelling conclusion!

  6. May 26

    Ep 15: The Portfolio that Actually Matters

    Featuring: David Noble  Role: Financial Adviser, Pastor  What happens when God's direction doesn't make sense on paper? In this honest and deeply personal episode of the Power of Or podcast, David Noble shares the remarkable journey of balancing decades in financial services with a calling to ministry, discipleship, and radical obedience to God.  From growing up in a military family and moving 10 times before adulthood, to encountering Jesus at a young age, walking away from faith for years, and eventually surrendering fully to Christ at 28, David's story is filled with unexpected turns. He opens up about leaving a successful financial career to attend ministry school in North Carolina, pastoring a church that later closed, and learning how to trust God even when outcomes looked nothing like he expected.  Throughout the conversation, David, Bra, and Jim explore what it means to remain curious about God's purpose instead of becoming discouraged by setbacks. David also shares lessons from 33 years in the investment world, insights on fear and greed in the markets, the importance of hearing God together in marriage, and why relationships matter more than achievement.  What You'll Hear in This Episode  Why David believes discipleship matters more than simple conversion  The surprising story behind leaving financial services for ministry school  How he and his wife learned to make major life decisions in spiritual unity  What closing a church taught him about obedience and success  Powerful parallels between investing, narratives, fear, and faith  Why staying curious about God's plans changes everything  The importance of investing deeply in relationships  David's perspective on calling, transition, and why "I'm not done" still defines his life  Whether you're navigating career transitions, ministry calling, financial pressure, or simply trying to follow God faithfully through uncertainty, this conversation offers wisdom, humility, and encouragement for the journey.  In the end, David's story is a reminder that faithfulness is not measured by worldly outcomes, but by a willingness to keep saying yes to wherever God leads next.

  7. May 12

    Ep 14: The Secret to a Meaningful Life

    Featuring: Paul Nichols  Role: Retiree and Chaplain  What does a life of quiet faithfulness really look like? In this episode of the Power of OR, Brad Hawkins and Jim Brangenberg sit down with Paul Nichols, a retired manufacturing worker, longtime chaplain, pastor, husband, and faithful servant whose impact has stretched across decades of loving people well.  From factory floors and hospital rooms to funerals, Bible studies, and late-night phone calls, Paul shares how God used ordinary moments of service to transform lives. His stories are filled with wisdom, humility, humor, and a deep conviction that loving people where they are can change everything.  Rather than chasing recognition or comfort, Paul chose a life of consistency, compassion, and eternal perspective. His testimony is a powerful reminder that ministry is often messy, people are complicated, and love is still the most transformative force we can offer.  What you'll hear in this episode:  How Paul became a chaplain inside a manufacturing plant  Why "meeting people where they're at" matters so deeply  The challenges of loving difficult and broken people  Lessons learned from decades of ministry and listening  Why retirement doesn't have to mean checking out of purpose  Why Paul believes the key to life is simple: love people well  Paul's life is a picture of what can happen when someone quietly says "yes" to God day after day for decades. Whether he was praying with hurting coworkers on a factory line, helping struggling families at 2 a.m., or encouraging others through Scripture, his mission stayed the same: love others the way Christ loved him.  This conversation will challenge you to rethink influence, purpose, retirement, and what it means to truly serve people. If you've ever wondered whether small acts of faithfulness really matter, Paul's story answers that question with a resounding yes.

  8. Apr 28

    Ep 13: Leadership Starts at Home

    Featuring: Dr. Miles Mettler  Role: Focus on the Family Ambassador    In this episode, parenting isn't treated as a formula. It's revealed as a series of choices.   Dr. Miles Mettler shares how his journey through health and behavioral sciences, leadership, and faith led to a powerful realization: you can react out of instinct or you can respond with intention – and that choice shapes everything in your home. If you want to bring out the best in your kids, it starts with bringing out the best in yourself.  From growing up on a South Dakota farm to serving with Focus on the Family, Miles unpacks the real work of parenting: owning mistakes, building trust, and choosing thoughtful responses over automatic reactions. It's in those small, everyday moments – the tone you use, whether you pause to listen, whether you admit when you're wrong – where the trajectory of a family is formed.  What you'll hear in the episode:  Why success at work can mask failure at home  The moment that changed how he chose to express love to his kids  How small decisions shape long-term trust and communication  The impact of reacting critically vs. responding with grace  The shift from talking more → to truly listening  Why letting kids fail (at the right time) builds maturity  The role of apology in restoring connection and credibility  How faith was modeled through consistency, not just conversation  How parenting evolves over time – and what that means for grandparents  This episode is a reminder that parenting isn't about perfection. It's about choosing wisely in the moments that matter most. You can try to control outcomes or you can lead with intention, humility, and trust – and that decision can change everything.

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About

Our goal with every Power of OR Podcast is to provide a lively, unfiltered, unedited, unfettered, and unscripted conversation with a businessperson. We will explore their daily work and see if we can uncover a powerful "Or" moment facing our guest. Our goal is to access the wisdom of God for the solutions man seeks. With hosts Brad Hawkins (SaferNet.com) & Jim Brangenberg (iWork4Him).

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