Stop waiting for the perfect words, the perfect training, or the perfect moment. Betsy Hodges says the work starts where you are. Nan Whaley sits down with her longtime friend Betsy Hodges, former Mayor of Minneapolis, writer, and one of the country's most candid voices on racial equity, for a conversation about race, responsibility, and what it means to keep choosing action over avoidance. Betsy makes the case that the goal is not to become a perfect ally or wait until we “know enough.” It is to reclaim our own capacity to think clearly, act from where we are, and understand that a world without racism is not just better for people of color - it is healthier, freer, and more human for white people too. Their conversation covers: The "we don't know enough" trap and why waiting for one more book, training, or answer can become a way to avoid action.Allyship as a tool, not the goalHow racism harms white people too, and why a world without racism is not a zero-sum visionWhat it looks like to start where you are, from everyday public moments to naming a microaggression in real timeHow to move through shame without letting it become the center of the storyThe kind of mentorship that strengthens your own thinking, and why Betsy keeps the door open for people she has mentored, even years later Resources Mentioned: Bruce Springsteen Center for American Music at Monmouth UniversityOthering & Belonging Institute at UC Berkeley, founded by John A. PowellLearning to Be White by ThandekaThe Sum of Us by Heather McGheeWhite Fragility by Robin DiAngeloNice Racism by Robin DiAngeloChain of Ideas by Ibram X. KendiProject Hail Mary by Andy WeirTitanium Noir by Nick HarkawayThe Shamshine Blind by Paz PardoThe Gone World by Tom SweterlitschSilent Sky by Lauren Gunderson — the play about Betsy's relative, astronomer Henrietta Swan LeavittHenrietta Swan Leavitt's "Overlooked" obituary in The New York Times About Our Guest: Betsy Hodges is a student of whiteness, a recovering alcoholic, and an advisor who helps clients navigate whiteness and resistance in racial equity work. As the 47th Mayor of Minneapolis — and a City Council Member before that — she spent 12 years putting her understanding of race, white people, and policy change into practice, including bringing 21st-century policing to the city and leading the way on a citywide sick leave ordinance. With a background spanning government, nonprofits, and the private sector, fellowships with the Atlantic Fellowship for Racial Equity and the Othering & Belonging Institute, and a master's in sociology from the University of Wisconsin–Madison, she now builds frameworks to bring white people more fully into the work of ending racism. She has more than thirty years of sobriety, and the recovery work behind it sharpened the compassion she brings to all of it. Learn more at betsyhodges.com. About the Host: Nan Whaley is a longtime community leader and public servant. She's currently the CEO of Planned Parenthood of Southwest Ohio. She served as Mayor of Dayton, Ohio, from 2014 - 2022. Nan has also presided over the United Conference of Mayors. She's a feminist, daughter, aunt, sister, and friend. About the Show: Carry As You Climb focuses on elevating the voices of women in leadership from Ohio and across the United States. The podcast features guests who give special attention to not only busting through doors to lead but also hold the door open for more women behind them. In other words, they carry as they climb. We focus on leadership development and leadership lessons. Plus, we share personal experiences to inspire the inclusion of more diverse leaders in business, government and the nonprofit sector. About the Host: Nan Whaley is a longtime community leader and public servant. She's currently the CEO of Planned Parenthood of Southwest Ohio. She served as Mayor of Dayton, Ohio, from 2014 - 2022. Nan has also presided over the United Conference of Mayors. She's a feminist, daughter, aunt, sister, and friend. About the Show: Carry As You Climb focuses on elevating the voices of women in leadership from Ohio and across the United States. The podcast features guests who give special attention to not only busting through doors to lead but also hold the door open for more women behind them. In other words, they carry as they climb. We focus on leadership development and leadership lessons. Plus, we share personal experiences to inspire the inclusion of more diverse leaders in business, government and the nonprofit sector. Connect with Carry As You Climb Socials Instagram | Facebook | LinkedIn Stay up to date with Nan's Substack: substack.com/@nanwhaley Join the Climb: Subscribe to Carry As You Climb wherever you listen to podcasts, and share this episode with a woman in your life who is climbing — and carrying others as she goes. Produced by: Collective Change Communications - Kelly Sakalas & Jeni Keeler Note: The opinions expressed by host Nan Whaley on this podcast are hers alone, and not that of any organization with which she is affiliated.
