What if ancient footprints in New Mexico proved humans lived in North America during the Ice Age? In this conversation from a presentation at SAR in 2022, discover how the White Sands tracks are reshaping archaeology’s biggest debate. In this episode: Discovery and scope of the White Sands footprint sitesInteractions between humans and Ice Age megafaunaDating methods and debates around pre-Clovis chronologyErosion, climate change, and the race to document the tracksCollaboration with tribal and Pueblo communities in interpreting the site Key Takeaways: White Sands preserves tens of thousands of human and megafauna footprints across ~80,000 acres, forming one of the largest known Ice Age track archives.Footprints offer unusually intimate evidence, revealing presence, movement, age profiles, and behavior in ways that stone tools and bones rarely can.Radiocarbon-dated seed layers bracketing footprint horizons indicate repeated human visits roughly 21,000–23,000 years ago, well before the classic Clovis horizon.The prints are rapidly threatened by drought, erosion, and wind-driven sediment loss, making documentation and digital preservation an urgent race against time.Collaboration with tribes and Pueblos is reshaping interpretations, informing ideas about movement, equipment, camping patterns, and oral histories tied to extinct megafauna. “We've all made footprints. We can all connect to footprints in a way that perhaps you can't connect as well, dare I say it, given that there are archaeologists present, to a stone tool, because very few of us have actually made stone tools, but we've all made footprints.” - Matthew Bennett “It's literally thousands and thousands of prints, tens of thousands across 80,000 acres, but with that you get to see so many incredible stories of different animals and people interacting with each other, and people and people interacting and other incredible stories.” - David Bustos About Matthew Bennett: Matthew’s passion for geography has taken him from Snowdonia to research projects across the Arctic, Africa, Mexico, and the United States. A leading researcher in human footprints, glaciology, and geomorphology, his work includes the Ileret footprints and groundbreaking research at White Sands National Park. He also developed DigTrace, a forensic footprint analysis tool, and has authored several textbooks on his fields of expertise. About David Bustos: David Bustos is the resource program manager at White Sands National Park and a wildlife biologist by training. A graduate of New Mexico State University, he has spent more than a decade investigating ancient human and megafauna footprints throughout the park, leading efforts to locate, document, and preserve tens of thousands of tracks across the former basin of Paleo Lake Otero. About Vance Holliday: Vance Holliday is an archaeologist and geologist specializing in geoarchaeology and Paleoindian landscapes across North America. A University of Arizona professor since 2002, his research examines how past societies adapted to changing environments. His work has received several prestigious awards, including the Rip Rapp, Kirk Bryan, and Fryxell Awards. Connect with: Matthew Bennett, Ph.D.: https://staffprofiles.bournemouth.ac.uk/display/mbennett David Bustos: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David-Bustos Vance Holliday, Ph.D.: https://anthropology.arizona.edu/person/vance-holliday Connect with Paul Ryer & School for Advanced Research: Website: https://sarweb.org/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sarsantafemultimedia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-ryer-4a4889156 Show notes by Podcastologist: Francine Poblete Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.