Said Differently: A Show About B2B Storytelling

Troupe.ai
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Said Differently features B2B go-to-market leaders as they share experiences and advice on balancing the art and science of storytelling, messaging, and market positioning. Sponsored by Troupe, the platform for story and messaging success. 

  1. 1d ago

    Fixing Message Malfunction at the Marketing-Sales Junction

    Marketing may own a company’s messaging, but because Sales owns the number (and their comp that comes from it), that message better work well or it’s going to diverge. In this episode of Troupe’s podcast show SAID DIFFERENTLY about B2B messaging strategy, the focus is on the handoff of the go-to-market story to sales executing those messages as they work the pipeline.  Guest Marcus Andrews, formerly a senior product marketer at Pendo, HubSpot, and Google and now head of Marketing at Conveyor, talks about his approach to developing a strong relationship with sales. One of his key pieces of advice: Marketers need to understand the storytelling challenges from the sales perspective and collaborate accordingly. Key moments from the episode: 2:46 = There’s passion in Marketing around crafting narrative, but Sales is the team executing the marketing narrative on the daily in real interactions. This is a critical handoff point for the Marketing-Sales relationship, and Product Marketing must own this.  4:39 = Product Marketing must have credibility with Sales. There needs to be a clear definition of the role and the relationship, which can vary in different companies. That inconsistency has led to confusion.  9:39 = A common scenario is rolling out a new launch or new messaging and getting that activated by the Sales organization. Marcus provides good practices he’s learned that make the handoff successful, such as matching the way they sell.13:46 = It helps to have Sales involved in training their teams on the message and the pitch, and also to have Marketing walk in their shoes for a bit and deliver the message in the ‘real world.’ Marcus shares examples of how this looked at Pendo.17:18 = How to build a rapport and relationship with Sales on how to best evolve the narrative and learn from signals coming back from the market and potential buyers. As Marcus says, “the best approach is to be curious” and how Troupe is a great tool for surfacing this messaging feedback signal and variation.20:48 = Using data to help bring objective evidence to the Marketing-Sales relationship and story handoff. What marketing needs to bring to enhance the revenue story that sales is already telling in executive meetings and to the Board.24:30 = How does this look when the sales cycle is more of a product-led (PLG) motion? Marcus talks about the tight messaging-to-outcomes feedback loops he experienced during his time at HubSpot.27:05 = How Marketing can maintain ownership of the message when anybody in Sales or elsewhere in the org can use AI for ideation and creation. This is an opportunity to make sure everyone is using the same messaging and ICP source material on which they are basing their work.For more on show producer Troupe: https://www.troupe.ai/our-product  Said Differently is sponsored by Troupe, the AI hub for messaging success. You can watch the video versions of these podcasts on our YouTube playlist.

    Fixing Message Malfunction at the Marketing-Sales Junction

  2. Sep 29

    How MQLs Broke B2B Marketing's Credibility and How to Rebuild It

    How MQL Metrics Broke B2B Marketing's Credibility - and How to Rebuild It In this episode of Troupe's SAID DIFFERENTLY podcast about B2B go-to-market messaging, we dig into the spicy topic of how to best measure marketing's impact in B2B, and why MQLs (marketing qualified leads) and other attribution metrics have failed us thus far. It's a critical problem to solve, with CMOs having among the shortest tenure's in the C-suite with decreasing direct reporting lines to the CEO, according to reports from Forrester and other analysts. We're joined by Janessa Lantz, who led marketing at dbt Labs from $1 million in annual revenue to north of $100 million. Janessa echoes other B2B CMOs who characterize MQLs as creating this idea that marketing is a "lead gumball machine." She also firmly believes that if the head of marketing isn't trusted, you can never get your attribution good enough to surmount that perception issue. Instead, she and host Jennifer Sikora discuss the shift away from relying on MQLs and first/last-touch attribution models into a future where AI is used for robust pattern matching to find how well your market-focused narrative is influencing pipeline movement.  Key moments in the discussion: 2:46 = CMO Role Under the Microscope: What does that scrutiny look like today, what are we seeing? Janessa talks about the high anxiety founders and CEO have around hiring for this role. 5:38 = The Measurement Conundrum: How Marketing has been measured on its contribution to pipeline and revenue in a way the board, CEO, and CFO care about, challenging traditional metrics and attribution. What Marketing talks about and presents determine how people see the function and how the reporting structure is established. Janessa’s thesis: “This obsession with MQLs has led astray an entire generation of B2B marketers… it has eroded trust… it has created this idea that Marketing is a lead gumball machine instead of a strategic partner to the business.” 8:33 = MQL Retrospective: Looking back on the history of the MQL and lead scoring, and how those models have affected B2B marketing over the past 15 years. 11:45 = Messaging as metric: Thinking about messaging as creating on-ramps for your potential buyers: the “meeting them where they are” adage as it relates to context-relevant messaging that converts them to the next step.  14:35 = Full journey understanding: What’s ideal is if you can understand the message driving the conversion and across all the different touchpoints through the sales funnel. This helps build more trust with Sales too. Why it’s important for Marketers to continue to pay attention to what happens with a lead as it moves through the sales cycle, specifically which messages they are positively responding to. 16:41 = Shared language: Marketing and Sales having a “shared unit” of measure that unifies them, not keeps them separately like an MQL vs. SQL.  18:24 = AI Use Cases: Help you understand what’s happening in your sales and messaging interactions, such as finding gaps in your content or objections that are coming up that you don’t have an easy way for them to find answers to. This allows Marketing to show up proactively to Sales. 21:26 = Why Now: What’s the risk to Marketers if they don’t make this shift towards clearer revenue contribution and its measurement? And how to make smarter use of AI to aid this transition, so that marketing becomes elevated backed by great data. You know the messages that are resonating in the marketing. 27:45 = The future: Building Marketing intelligence systems using AI that compiles insights from sales calls, from product management and case study calls, from market knowledge gained at conferences, and more. This allows Marketing to stay in front of the market feedback so it can strategically map that to a longer-term plan. “Finally be ahead of where the market and customers are going.” For more resources about measuring B2B messaging performance: https://www.troupe.ai or the free online guide: https://www.troupe.ai/measuring-messaging Credits: Troupe.ai for sponsorship: https://www.troupe.ai Graphic and production support: 24 and Up Music: https://pixabay.com/users/backgroundmusicforvideos-46459014/ Said Differently is sponsored by Troupe, the AI hub for messaging success. You can watch the video versions of these podcasts on our YouTube playlist.

    How MQLs Broke B2B Marketing's Credibility and How to Rebuild It

  3. Sep 22

    Human Judgment Remains Critical for Messaging Fundamentals

    Yes, it's important to have B2B messaging strategies and frameworks that are well designed. But today's challenge also means making sure we're applying human judgment to our go-to-market storytelling amidst the ease and speed of AI-generated messaging and content. That's the topic of this episode of Troupe's SAID DIFFERENTLY podcast, featuring author and product marketing consultant Doug Kimball, who wrote "So What, Why, Who Cares?" Doug breaks down each of those key framework pieces, and discusses why humans not only must stay in the loop in making positioning, messaging, and talk-track decisions, but must lead the big-picture strategy. He and host Jennifer Sikora share some of their best practices and lessons learned. Key moments of the discussion: 02:48 = The blunt and career-pivotal backstory behind Doug's book as it relates to staying anchored in B2B storytelling and messaging best practices.  07:16 = Breaking down the framework in the book, starting with “So What.” What that means as applied to messaging principles so that the value comes across when features or capabilities are highlighted. 11:56 = The importance of the “Why?” Making sure your messaging conveys the reasons and urgency that inspire prioritization of what you’re offering. Connecting with the emotional needs of your prospective buyer. 15:58 = Make sure you don’t overstuff your message delivery, and think about the journey someone has with your story. In B2B, you’re not trying to close the deal immediately when you deliver the initial messages. 17:33 = The third part of the framework is “Who Cares?” and this is about understanding the person you are speaking to, being in their shoes and what motivates them. 18:68 = AI’s role and impact on developing messaging frameworks and messaging content and the importance of human judgement, perspective, and getting it in market-ready shape based on the human experience. 25:00 = Great role for AI is to help us measure the patterns of where our messaging is more successful vs. less so that we can optimize it for revenue outcomes. Using Troupe as a solution example for this. 27:17 = Additional best practices for messaging, including reading your messaging out loud and avoid stuffing keywords into your terms for the sake of checking a box. Also, think about a story arc and allowing the opportunity to reveal more at a later time. More resources from Doug Kimball and his book “So What, Why, Who Cares?”: https://sowhatwhywhocares.com/  For more resources about measuring messaging performance: https://www.troupe.ai  Credits: Troupe.ai for sponsorship: https://www.troupe.ai Graphic and production support: 24 and Up Music: https://pixabay.com/users/backgroundmusicforvideos-46459014/ #messaging #positioning #storytelling #b2bmarketing #b2bsales #b2bstrategy #productmarketing #contentmarketing #chiefmarketingofficer  Said Differently is sponsored by Troupe, the AI hub for messaging success. You can watch the video versions of these podcasts on our YouTube playlist.

    Human Judgment Remains Critical for Messaging Fundamentals

  4. Sep 15

    RevOps Cares More About Messaging Performance Than You Think

    How much MORE revenue can we get by using better messages and talk tracks? Revenue and Sales Operations certainly care, as does Marketing. This convergence might be considered "right brain meets left brain," creativity meets logic and optimization. But when the stakes are high for B2B go-to-market investments, these two areas must combine to create a virtuous cycle: messaging and talk tracks get measured, and then those measured outcomes can inform go-to-market behavior and sales execution, and then you can iterate and scale-up a higher-forming narrative. In this episode of Troupe's podcast program SAID DIFFERENTLY, seasoned RevOps leader Jeff Serlin (formerly with Pendo, Marketo, Intercom, Campaign Monitor) joins host Jennifer to discuss why RevOps should NEVER be left out of messaging impact discussions. They also get super tangible: Jennifer takes Jeff through some specific real-world examples of messaging performance to ask him how he would act if given that data in a RevOps role, with the goal of improving pipeline and sales wins. Key moments in this episode: 04:50 = RevOps isn't the first function that comes to mind when a company thinks about building its go-to-market story plan and messaging house. But let’s get RevOps’ perspective on why they care and should matter.07:45 = Sales will use what works, but how do you know what messaging is working, how do you isolate it? Why it’s historically been harder to measure vs. other factors that help with pipeline conversions.09:39 = How has Jeff in his storied RevOps career gotten involved in initiatives related to go-to-market messaging.010:46 = Those working on messaging need to get close to how it’s performing in real situations, such as in sales calls and on trade show floors. Learn what the best sales reps are communicating that help make them successful.13:22 = This doesn’t mean sales should own the messaging narrative, but there should be a clear, smooth, and non-subjective path to getting feedback to the marketing owners about what's working vs. not, so that everyone can collectively get better together.15:13 = Play a game of “What would you do in RevOps?” using data from Troupe that reveals how well certain messages are performing relative to revenue influence. First example reveals that this customer's fundamental messaging pillars are depressing win rates compared to their overall baseline.19:50 = Second example concerns a sizable number of deals that haven’t received any of this customer's proven messaging in a while, leaving them at risk.24:00 = Third example: Sales reps are deviating from messaging or creating new messages, and some is working, some isn’t. 26:18 = For companies who are growing and hitting their revenue goals, why messaging performance measurement is still an important area to invest in.  Additional resources on Troupe's messaging-to-revenue insights: https://www.troupe.ai/stories/see-and-act-on-revenue-at-stake-from-messaging-insights Credits: Troupe.ai for sponsorship: https://www.troupe.ai Graphic and production support: 24 and Up Music: https://pixabay.com/users/backgroundmusicforvideos-46459014/ Said Differently is sponsored by Troupe, the AI hub for messaging success. You can watch the video versions of these podcasts on our YouTube playlist.

    RevOps Cares More About Messaging Performance Than You Think

  5. Sep 8

    Your Competitor Makes a Messaging Move. BREATHE!

    It’s natural to want to react when a key competitor changes their go-to-market story and messaging tactics – or starts replicating yours. But what is the right response and how much weight should you give to your competitors’ storytelling movements? In this episode of Troupe’s podcast show SAID DIFFERENTLY, product marketing leader Kevin Chan (formerly with Fleetio, now with Locus) joins us to discuss maintaining perspective when faced with how your messaging elements stack up against those of your competitors. This isn’t about head-to-head messaging combat vs. a specific competitor, but about strategic market positioning relative to competition. Key points in the discussion: 02:28 = General philosophy on how much your competitor’s messaging should matter to you. Kevin’s take: Stay aware, but don’t fixate.05:01 = What you should pay attention to: evolution of a competitor’s messaging over time and ultimately what does that message mean for the customer.06:59 = Real-world examples of how competitive messaging moves can affect companies and create urges to react.10:09 = AI-accelerated product releases mean more companies can be futuristic with messaging, because the time gaps of promise-to-delivery are shortening.12:55 = Making sure your messaging isn’t getting watered down by AI and sounding too similar to your competitors. Finding the clear ownable messaging space and measuring messaging testing and long-term performance using solutions like Troupe.18:38 = Selling is becoming more complex, with larger buying committees and more noise to cut through. This makes messaging performance data more critical to guide decision making and optimize the sales cycle.23:30 = Cutting through the messaging noise, some tips for standing out and sharpening your story. Kevin Chan showcased excerpt 1: “When I look at competitor messaging, I actually try to look at it not as a point in time, but as a combination of different activities. And so one of the things that I think you know, I've toyed around with on my own, has been being able to track over a time horizon, how is this competitor actually evolving their messaging, whether that's on the home page, whether that's maybe even things that you're garnering from what a rep might be feeding you in terms of what a prospect is saying that competitor is saying. And you should be really filtering it, to not overreact on a certain point in time, but instead being able to filter out, okay, based on the various breadcrumbs that they've been dropping for us over this past little while, what are they trying to evolve their narrative to be? It's about an evolution.” Kevin Chan showcased excerpt 2: “To me what's more difficult is can your messaging then stand that test when it's being hyper-analyzed by twelve different stakeholders who probably all have 12 different KPIs, and you might be only aware of three of those stakeholders' KPIs around you know how they are evaluating you and to your competitors or or not. And so the types of metrics that I really look at…  messaging that's working, but it's also good to like understand what your sellers are also saying that might be going off script that can help you. And with tools that can help you do that, then that's a big part of the game because you know, your messaging should be helping solve for stalled deals, right? Messaging should be helping with higher win rates or, you know, higher share of wallet.” For more resources: https://www.troupe.ai Credits: Troupe.ai for sponsorship: https://www.troupe.ai Graphic and production support: 24 and Up Music: https://pixabay.com/users/backgroundmusicforvideos-46459014/ Said Differently is sponsored by Troupe, the AI hub for messaging success. You can watch the video versions of these podcasts on our YouTube playlist.

    Your Competitor Makes a Messaging Move. BREATHE!

  6. Jun 29

    The New Messaging Rules When AI Accelerates Product

    Now that AI coding help is speeding product release cycles, it can be hard for Go-to-Market Teams to keep up. Product marketers are grappling with how often they should be refreshing messaging stories, making decisions about what's important to communicate, and thinking through how frequently their customers and their target market in general can absorb this new pace of change. In this episode of Troupe's B2B storytelling podcast, called Said Differently, two guests join host Jennifer Sikora to bring their product marketing expertise to bear on how to best navigate this challenge: Michele Nieberding, Head of PMM at Optiversal, and Tamara Grominsky, Founder of PMM Camp. Key episode chapters by topic: 03:22 = Specific examples of how the panelists have felt this pace of AI-accelerated product release velocity. 08:39 = What about companies who aren't yet applying AI to accelerate product, how should they position themselves? 10:23 = What this means for planning product launches, rethinking the elements, pacing, and rollout. Plan around the idea of "book chapters" or "tv episodes", not sentence-by-sentence releases. 16:27 = The opportunity for Product Marketers to 'shift left' and get ahead of the release story, to think more strategically about the narrative thread and direction for buyers and users. 20:44 = Helping customers and users absorb the pace of updates. 26:46 = Applying the tools, like Troupe, to measure messaging that's working and the importance of maintaining your "north star" in your go-to-market story.  33:14 = Practical advice for Marketing teams on what the best framework or tactics are to apply in this new normal of faster product release pacing. Said Differently is sponsored by Troupe, the AI hub for messaging success. You can watch the video versions of these podcasts on our YouTube playlist.

    The New Messaging Rules When AI Accelerates Product

  7. Apr 27

    Messaging in Regulated Industries Means Taming Complexity

    There are a number of markets that a business may serve, or operate in, where regulations can impact the way you shape the story you bring to market, even as specific as the words used. Examples: Healthcare, insurance, financial services, even legal services. In this episode of Troupe's podcast SAID DIFFERENTLY, we hear from product marketing leader Hannah Pickering of HealthEquity as she talks about how she meets the challenges to build an effective messaging plan and to keep that on track amidst the explosion of AI-generated content. Key moments from the conversation: 3:23 = Bringing a message to market in a regulated industry. Specific examples of cases she has encountered and what she had to adjust and keep in mind when making messaging choices for the story.  9:25 = The differences in getting a solid messaging framework in place in a B2B2C go-to-market motion. First, there are more guardrails to abide by. Second, there are more stakeholders involved in the process including compliance, legal, and in certain industries clinical or scientific teams. Third, the process must bring in the right input at the right time. 12:30 = Question the wording and be the “interpreter”: Nuance around language and the meaning of words. How not to get overly complicated and confuse your potential audience yet not select words that don’t work in the context of your market. 14:46 = Managing the explosion of AI-generated content: How has this changed the approach of monitoring content “in the wild” and why this keeps her up at night. Bringing people into the messaging process so they are more likely to use it with consistency and adherence. No more “my messaging vs. your messaging.” 19:18 = Activating a feedback loop with your team, so you can iterate the messaging to continue to improve it and react to changes in the market, buyers, and competitive moves. How Troupe is a solution that can help with the measurement of messaging. 22:51 = In a B2B2C situation, how do you think about the hierarchy of message, so you are striking the right balance in the buyer’s lens vs. the end-consumer’s lens? She looks for what’s universally important to both, while also still developing messaging for both groups. 27:13 = Having more personas to understand when in a B2B2C environment also requires you to think about the offering more on “human-focused” terms.  Learn more about how Troupe helps companies keep track of how aligned their messages in interactions and content are with what they should be saying: https://www.troupe.ai/use-cases Said Differently is sponsored by Troupe, the AI hub for messaging success. You can watch the video versions of these podcasts on our YouTube playlist.

    Messaging in Regulated Industries Means Taming Complexity

  8. Apr 21

    Product Marketing's Value Goes Up When it Shifts Left

    Why Product Marketing in B2B Must Shift Left to Drive More Value In this episode of Troupe's Said Differently podcast, the show about B2B messaging and storytelling veers into more strategic territory. Product Marketing is so much more than crafting messages, managing launch plans, and developing content. Guest Tom Crist, who is a principal at product marketing consultancy Fluvio Marketing and an ambassador for the Product Marketing Alliance, talks about their team's survey finding and report about how PMMs can close the revenue gap by being brought in earlier. Key moments in the conversation: 03:41 = Product Marketing still struggles with a misunderstanding of its role. Tom acknowledges it’s not often taught in business curriculum programs and that a consumer-brand product marketer still looks different than it does in tech and B2B. 07:45 = To that end: how do you hire and manage a Product Marketing role you don’t really understand? Tom says the expectation for this position should not be to staff a glorified content creator or project manager, but someone who can understand the customer deeply and bring that knowledge back to product and GTM strategy. 10:55 = Fluvio’s report on the "PMM Revenue Gap: Why Product Marketing is Often Measured Too Late to Matter." Product Marketing still often left out of the early decision-making process around what to build, for who, why and the goals, because they aren’t valued for expertise on the buyer. 15:22 = Difficulty of a product marketer to move into that strategic influence role if there are founders in that role or someone else who has historically held that territory. The report found that bringing data and insights to the table significantly outpaced other reasons for earning that seat. 18:24 = Practical things that PMMs can do to shift left. On his list: Take the time to conduct the market and buyer research. Seek segmentation characterized by useful specificity that can inform demand generation campaigns. 23:19 = Emphasis on the metrics for PMMs, which is the output, what you are measuring. There’s been a hesitation to standardize PMM KPIs due to attribution complexity, which Fluvio highlights in their report, and solutions like Troupe are putting data metrics around measuring messaging impact. 30:05 = What are the traits of a ‘superstar’ PMM that you would hire today, what experience and characteristics do they have? Knowing the domain of the market and buyer you’re targeting, and if you don’t have it, what is your process and work in getting to deeply understand it. Need to also understand all the elements of the entire PMM umbrella, not be highly specialized in just one piece. Also being an internal champion for your role and your strategic opportunity. Said Differently is sponsored by Troupe, the AI hub for messaging success. You can watch the video versions of these podcasts on our YouTube playlist.

    Product Marketing's Value Goes Up When it Shifts Left
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Said Differently features B2B go-to-market leaders as they share experiences and advice on balancing the art and science of storytelling, messaging, and market positioning. Sponsored by Troupe, the platform for story and messaging success. 

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