Sound Systems

Max Bernstein
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Unlock the secrets to building a thriving, streamlined music business on Sound Systems, hosted by Max Bernstein, Founder of Relationl. Max is on a mission: to help the music industry move beyond spreadsheets and disconnected tools. Having founded a record label, festival, and tech platform himself, Max now designs custom, automated operating systems for music companies featured in Billboard and Rolling Stone. Every episode dives into the day-to-day challenges of music management and operations. Max interviews music moguls and industry executives who are leveraging relational databases and workflow automation to achieve clarity, control, and massive scale. If you're ready to stop wading through manual effort and start running your business with maximum efficiency and transparency, Sound Systems delivers the blueprint.

  1. How Indie Artists Are Gaming Spotify Without Getting Banned with Dorian Perron

    May 20

    How Indie Artists Are Gaming Spotify Without Getting Banned with Dorian Perron

    In this episode, Max Bernstein sits down with Dorian Perron, Co-founder of Groover, to break down how artists actually grow on Spotify today through playlists, algorithms, and data-driven strategies. Dorian explains why playlisting has become the dominant form of music promotion, replacing traditional outlets like blogs and radio, and how artists can use it to generate real audience growth. He also talks about the risks of artificial streaming, how to identify fraudulent playlists, and why engagement matters far more than follower count. The conversation also explores how Spotify’s algorithm works behind the scenes, including the importance of early traction, popularity scores, and listener behavior. Dorian shares actionable strategies for artists to maximize campaigns, build momentum across platforms, and avoid common mistakes that can hurt long-term growth. Key Takeaways Why playlisting has become the most important driver of music discoveryHow to spot fake playlists and avoid artificial streaming penaltiesWhy engagement matters more than playlist follower countHow Spotify’s algorithm rewards early traction and listener consistencyThe growing role of AI in music creation and its impact on the industry Key Timestamps 00:00 - Introduction to the changing landscape of playlisting 04:42 - Identifying fraudulent playlists and avoiding artificial streams 09:12 - How to create successful independent playlists 14:01 - Using social media and ads to build playlist engagement 19:58 - Why territories like Brazil and Mexico are critical for growth 23:08 - How Spotify’s algorithm works and the importance of early traction 28:00 - What genres have the biggest indie playlists? 28:54 - The role of digital ads in Groover’s growth strategy 30:00 - What people think about AI generated music 37:29 - Where to follow Dorian and Groover for more tips and updates Follow Our Guest, Dorian Perron Dorian Perron LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dorian-perron-44102177Groover LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/heygroover/ Indeflagration LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/indeflagration/ Dorian Perron Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dorianflagrant/ Groover Music Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/groover.music/ Groover Obsessions Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grooverobsessions/ Groover Website: https://groover.co/en/ Indeflagration Website: https://indeflagration.fr/ Follow the Host, Max Bernstein: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/X: https://x.com/relationlco Follow RELATIONL: Website: https://www.relationl.co/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationl LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/

    38 min
  2. Is Rock Music Back with Ashlyn Bruni

    Apr 29

    Is Rock Music Back with Ashlyn Bruni

    In this episode, Max Bernstein sits down with Ashlyn Bruni, A&R Coordinator at Hopeless Records, to break down the resurgence of rock music and what it takes for artists to succeed in today’s landscape. Ashlyn shares how modern A&R has evolved beyond chasing streams and viral moments, focusing instead on genuine fan connection, community-building, and long-term artist development. She also unpacks how independent labels operate, the shift toward distribution and licensing deals, and the trade-offs artists face when choosing between indie and major routes. The conversation also explores the role of TikTok in discovery, the risks of trend-chasing, and the growing impact of AI on music creation, offering a clear look at where the industry is heading and what artists need to stand out. Key Takeaways Why rock music is making a strong comeback and what’s driving the revivalWhat A&R actually looks for beyond streams, followers, and viral momentsWhy fan connection and community matter more than audience sizeThe shift from traditional record deals to distribution and licensing modelsHow AI and TikTok are both helping and hurting artist discovery Key Timestamps 00:00 - Introduction to Ashlyn Bruni and her role at Hopeless Records 01:15 - The resurgence of rock music: What’s driving the comeback? 03:30 - How A&R evaluates artists in 2026 06:00 - Why indie labels are becoming a better option for many artists 08:15 - The shift from traditional record deals to distribution and licensing models 11:00 - The role of TikTok in artist discovery and trends 13:20 - The risks of chasing viral moments and social media success 15:00 - Women in the music industry and overcoming gender bias 17:40 - The importance of representation for emerging artists 20:00 - Ashlyn’s thoughts on the future of rock and new talent 22:30 - Artists to watch right now in the rock scene 24:00 - Where to connect with Ashlyn and final thoughts Follow Our Guest, Ashlyn Bruni Ashlyn Bruni Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ashlyn.bruni/Ashlyn Bruni LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlyn-bruni-37535269/Hopeless Records Website: https://www.hopelessrecords.com/Hopeless Records LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hopelesssub-city-records/ Follow the Host, Max Bernstein: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/X: https://x.com/relationlco Follow RELATIONL: Website: https://www.relationl.co/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationlLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/

    24 min
  3. Stop Chasing Virality with Mark Roberge

    Apr 1

    Stop Chasing Virality with Mark Roberge

    In this episode, host Max Bernstein sits down with Mark Roberge, a musician, founder of FanFlowy, to break down the systems-driven approach behind building a sustainable music career in today’s industry. He is also the co-founder of Make Our Music and serves as CEO of Bamrock Entertainment and Prospect Hill Entertainment. Mark shares how artists can move beyond chasing virality and instead build predictable, scalable growth using marketing funnels, fan acquisition strategies, and automation. Drawing from his experience as both a touring musician and tech founder, he explains why Spotify followers, not just monthly listeners, are the key metric for long-term revenue, and how independent artists can realistically generate six-figure incomes through a combination of streaming, merch, and live shows. Together, Max and Mark explore how to treat music like an e-commerce business, why owning your audience is critical, and how to turn casual listeners into lifelong superfans through intentional systems and storytelling. Key Takeaways Why Spotify followers matter more than monthly listeners for long-term incomeHow to build a full-funnel marketing system for music (ads → fans → superfans)The role of merch, live shows, and community in maximizing fan lifetime valueHow automation and tools like FanFlowy reduce workload while scaling growthWhy consistency, not virality, is the foundation of a sustainable music career Key Timestamps 00:00 – Followers vs. monthly listeners: the metric that actually drives revenue 01:24 – How 50K Spotify followers can translate into $100K+ annual income 04:20 – Building real fans vs. chasing viral moments 06:46 – Applying e-commerce funnels to music marketing 19:29 – What high-converting ads for artists actually look like 23:18 – Inside the fan journey: from signup to superfandom 31:26 – Using SMS, email, and automation to nurture fans 37:55 – How much work artists actually need to put in 41:26 – Final thoughts - where to connect Follow Our Guest, Mark Roberge Make Our Music website: https://www.makeourmusic.com/ Make Our Music LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-our-music/FanFlowy Website: https://fanflowy.com/Mark Roberge LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-roberge/Prospect Hill Entertainment LLC Website: https://prospecthillband.com/Bamrock Entertainment LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bamrock-entertainment/Make Our Music Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makeourmusicMake Our Music Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makeourmusicMake Our Music Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@makeourmusic Follow the Host Max Bernstein: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/X: https://x.com/relationlco Follow RELATIONL: Website: https://www.relationl.co/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationlLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/

    39 min
  4. The Team Energy Fix for Music Leaders to Stop Burnout Fast with Marni Wandner

    Mar 13

    The Team Energy Fix for Music Leaders to Stop Burnout Fast with Marni Wandner

    In this episode, host Max Bernstein sits down with Marni Wandner, founder of Future Present, to explore how leadership, burnout prevention, and human-centered systems can reshape the way the music industry works. Drawing from her journey through artist management, running a successful marketing agency, experiencing burnout, and ultimately building a coaching and consulting practice, Marni introduces the Five Archetypes framework, based on the Chinese elements, as a practical tool for understanding behavior, communication styles, and stress responses. Together, Max and Marni unpack how self-awareness improves collaboration, why energy management is more important than time management, and how companies can scale sustainably by designing systems that support people, not just output. Key Takeaways What the Five Archetypes (Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water) reveal about leadership and decision-makingHow burnout shows up differently depending on personality and stress responseWhy self-awareness is the foundation of better collaboration and communicationHow to manage energy sustainably in high-pressure creative environmentsWhy healthy systems, not hustle are the key to long-term success in music Key Timestamps 00:00 – What is Future Present and the philosophy behind the work 02:08 – How Marni works with music companies and creative teams 04:31 – Integrating neuroscience, leadership, and the Five Archetypes 12:00 – Inside the Five Archetypes assessment and group sessions 15:08 – Live archetype analysis of Max’s leadership style 23:22 – Using archetypes to make better decisions under pressure 26 24 – Can archetypes change over time? Nature vs. nurture 35:04 – Burnout risk, stress tolerance, and resilience 46:56 – Energy management, systems, and avoiding constant fire drills 56:32 – Real-world company transformation case study 59:08 – Mergers, acquisitions, and human-centered integration Follow Our Guest, Marni Wandner Future Present website: https://www.futurepresentco.com/Marni Wandner LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marniwandner/Marni Wandner Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marniwandner/Future Present Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurepresentco/ Follow the Host Max Bernstein: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/X: https://x.com/relationlco Follow RELATIONL: Website: https://www.relationl.co/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationlLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/

    1 hr
  5. Your Lost Music Royalties with Jamie Hart

    Feb 26

    Your Lost Music Royalties with Jamie Hart

    In this episode, host Max Bernstein sits down with Jamie Dee Hart founder of Hart & Songs, a music rights management expert who helps artists, writers, and management teams clean up registrations and collect the royalties they’re owed. Jamie breaks down the real-world consequences of skipping “boring admin” from unclaimed royalties that can expire after a limited retroactive window to situations where someone else claims your work in YouTube Content ID. Together, they walk through what actually needs to happen once a song is finished and released, collecting writer info and IPI numbers, locking in splits, registering songs with PROs and the MLC, setting up YouTube publishing monetization, and making sure sound recording royalties like SoundExchange aren’t missed. They also discuss how independent artists and managers can keep their catalog clean, avoid royalty delays, and be better positioned when opportunities and deals come along. Key Takeaways: Unregistered songs can forfeit past royalties after a limited retroactive windowSplit discrepancies can pause payouts until all parties agree to amendmentsPub admins help collect key royalties you can’t easily collect yourself (incl. YouTube publishing-side)Proper metadata (IPI, publisher info, ISRC) is essential for tracking and matchingManager checklist: PRO + pub admin + YouTube/Content ID coverage + SoundExchange performer setup Key Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Jamie’s background in rights management 00:04:57 - What artists lose when they don’t register 00:07:10 - The retroactive window (why older streams can be gone) 00:10:54 - Why a publishing admin is critical 00:17:47 - Top-to-bottom workflow: splits, PRO, admin, ISRC 00:21:06 - How split disputes delay royalties 00:32:35 - YouTube, Music Reports/Peloton, SoundExchange, neighboring rights 58:08:07 - Jamie’s 3-month cleanup + training approach 01:01:00 - notes.fm and the “catalog health check” idea Follow our guest, Jamie Dee Hart: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiedhart/Hart & Songs LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hart-and-songs/Hart & Songs Website: https://www.hartandsongs.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamiedeehart/?hl=en Follow the Host Max Bernstein: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/X: https://x.com/relationlco Follow RELATIONL: Website: https://www.relationl.co/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationlLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/

    1h 4m
  6. The One Person Record Company with Alexander Ciccimarro

    Feb 12

    The One Person Record Company with Alexander Ciccimarro

    In this episode, host Max Bernstein welcomes Alexander Ciccimarro, Vice President of Marketing at RCA Records, to talk about the evolution of music marketing, artist branding, and the operational systems powering today’s record labels. From orchestrating viral blog-era moments to championing AI-driven label workflows, Alexander unpacks how he navigated a career from mixtape culture to music executive leadership. Together, they explore the critical role of systems design in the modern music business, the future of small, agile record labels, and why the labels of tomorrow will be built on a single source of truth. This episode is essential for marketers, artists, and operators rethinking how the industry can scale human creativity through smart infrastructure. Key Takeaways: How early message boards and viral rap moments launched Alexander into music marketingThe story behind launching Cardi B’s “Bodak Yellow” and other early Atlantic Records winsWhy “Same Plate” focused on fair, profit-sharing deals and the ethos of “Everyone Eats”How AI, no-code tools, and centralized systems are transforming label operationsWhy the future of music will be run by “rainmakers” empowered by lean teams and AI Key Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Alexander Ciccimarro 04:40 - Hustling between NYC and ATL with Two-9 and Fatman Key 13:10 - Launching Same Plate with a mission-driven label model 19:00 - Fair deal structures and building the “Everyone Eats” ethos 27:00 - Evolving personal branding and leadership in the digital age 34:00 - Vision for the future: systems over chaos in label operations 41:40 - Why AI won’t replace people, but systems will empower them 47:00 - The single source of truth as the foundation of future labels 49:00 - Final thoughts on systems, training, and the human-AI bridge Follow our guest, Alexander Ciccimarro: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-ciccimarro-4185ba80/RCA Records LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rca-records/RCA Records Website: https://www.rcarecords.com/ Follow the Host Max Bernstein: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/X: https://x.com/relationlco Follow RELATIONL: Website: https://www.relationl.co/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationlLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/

    49 min
  7. How The GRAMMYS Work with Dr. Chelsey Green

    Jan 29

    How The GRAMMYS Work with Dr. Chelsey Green

    In this episode, host Max Bernstein sits down with Dr. Chelsey Green, a genre-crossing violinist, educator, and now Chair of the Board of Trustees at the Recording Academy. Known for her work as a classical and contemporary musician, Dr. Chelsey shares how a spontaneous open-mic performance led her down a transformative path, from performing with a touring R&B band to shaping the future of the music industry. This episode provides an inside look at what the Recording Academy does beyond the Grammy Awards, encompassing music education, professional development, advocacy, and global outreach. Dr. Chelsey also examines the Academy's stance on AI in music, the impact of peer-voted recognition, and why this moment is critical for community building and connectivity in the industry. Key Takeaways: How Chelsey Green transitioned from classical violinist to Chair of the Recording Academy BoardWhat the Recording Academy really does beyond the Grammy AwardsHow independent artists can submit music and earn nominationsWhy ethical AI and global connection are central to the Academy’s future visionHow creators and industry executives alike can plug into their local Recording Academy chapters Key Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction to Dr. Chelsey Green 02:37 – From open mic surprise to R&B bandleader 05:21 – The Recording Academy’s mission beyond the Grammys 10:15 – How creators can join and participate 15:19 – How Chelsey's Grammy perspective has evolved 19:12 – Demystifying the Grammy voting process 22:07 – Grammy wins and the independent artist career boost 30:36 – The potential and pitfalls of AI in music 34:06 – Final thoughts for industry leaders and creators Follow our guest, Dr. Chelsey Green: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drchelseygreen/Website: https://www.chelseygreen.com/, https://www.recordingacademy.com/, https://www.grammy.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/drchelseygreen/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GreenProjectTGP/ Follow the Host Max Bernstein: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/X: https://x.com/relationlco Follow RELATIONL: Website: https://www.relationl.co/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationlLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/

    37 min
  8. Airtable vs Notion with Alessandro Viola

    Jan 21

    Airtable vs Notion with Alessandro Viola

    In this episode, host Max Bernstein talks with Alessandro Viola, a classically trained percussionist turned low-code systems architect at Warner Classics. Alessandro shares his unique journey from growing up immersed in classical music to building internal software systems that are transforming the way classical record labels operate. He offers a rare look behind the curtain of the classical music industry, discussing how rights management and marketing works in the Classics genre. The conversation also dives deep into the no-code/low-code world, comparing tools like Notion and Airtable, and exploring how tech-savvy creatives can build impactful tools within their companies, often without writing a single line of code. Key Takeaways: How Alessandro transitioned from performer to tech lead at a major labelWhat it means to manage 400+ years of music in the modern recording industryThe role of classical music in today’s streaming and performance landscapeHow Airtable and Notion stack up for internal system building and knowledge managementWhy low-code tools are becoming essential infrastructure across creative industries Key Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Alessandro Viola 03:30 - Ownership and public domain of classical music catalogs 09:00 - Classical music and pop music crossovers (Rosalía) 13:00 - The future of classical music and modern trends 17:26 - Building tools with Airtable and no-code platforms at Warner 32:36 - setting-up tools with extra functionalities 45:00 - Closing thoughts on the future of low-code/no-code tools like notion and airtable Follow our guest, Alessandro Viola: Alessandro’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ale-viola/ Warner Music Group’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/warner-music-group/ Warner Music Group Website: https://www.wmg.com/ Follow the Host Max Bernstein: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/X: https://x.com/relationlco Follow RELATIONL: Website: https://www.relationl.co/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/

    44 min
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About

Unlock the secrets to building a thriving, streamlined music business on Sound Systems, hosted by Max Bernstein, Founder of Relationl. Max is on a mission: to help the music industry move beyond spreadsheets and disconnected tools. Having founded a record label, festival, and tech platform himself, Max now designs custom, automated operating systems for music companies featured in Billboard and Rolling Stone. Every episode dives into the day-to-day challenges of music management and operations. Max interviews music moguls and industry executives who are leveraging relational databases and workflow automation to achieve clarity, control, and massive scale. If you're ready to stop wading through manual effort and start running your business with maximum efficiency and transparency, Sound Systems delivers the blueprint.

Information

  • Creator
    Max Bernstein
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    15
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2026 Max Bernstein
  • Show Website
    Sound Systems