Hi everyone. I hope you all enjoy this conversation with Phil Vellender, one of the five minds behind the London fanzine Trailing Clouds of Glory. I shared their fantastic 1974 multipart Firesign Theatre piece last week (linked here in case you missed it). A transcript of our conversation follows below. One other piece of Firesign news this week: a four-hour compilation of Nick Danger pieces is now available on Bandcamp, courtesy of the heroic Taylor Jessen. This is every Nick Danger piece not released on Columbia (those are all on the streaming services). The 1984 album The Three Faces of Al is especially great. Jeremy Braddock: I am talking here with Phil Vellender, editor of Trailing Clouds of Glory, dateline London 1974. One of the most interesting publications, fan-generated or otherwise, about Firesign Theatre that I discovered while I was doing the research for my Firesign book. And I discovered it really late, but it confirmed to me that I was on the right track. I was super psyched to be able to meet Phil, and we’ve had a number of conversations over the years and he’s agreed to meet up with us and answer a few questions about Trailing Clouds of Glory. Hi, Phil. Phil Vellender: Hi, delighted to be here, thank you. Jeremy: Excellent, I’m delighted to have you here. I’m wondering if you could tell us a bit about the history of Trailing Clouds of Glory. Phil: Well, there were a number of fanzines in Britain at the time, but none of them seemed to satisfy our liking for literature and art and all that sort of thing, which we wanted to try and roll together. And there were five of us who were involved with this, of which three were heavily into Firesign Theatre. And so we came together and decided we’d do a fanzine, but we wouldn’t do a fanzine like, you know, “band mania” fanzine, but it would be more to do with the culture and the politics of contemporary America. We’d all (well three of us) gone to university so we did have an academic background but we didn’t want to make it too obscure. So we tried to not patronize our audience in the Firesign article but actually inform. That was our goal, so that’s hopefully what you found. Jeremy: I think you really did that. Do want to give us the names of the five and briefly tell us what they did? Phil: Well, I went to school with one Steve [Burgess], who did a lot of the artwork in the magazine (and I hope everyone will have an opportunity at some point to see the other pages because they’re rather nice). But I went to school with Steve and he was an incredible know-all about West Coast American music. A band didn’t leave the studio in San Francisco without him knowing all about it. So he was a great guy to be around. And then there was a guy called Richard Kinnoy, who was very keen on Shelley, and he wrote experimental writing, probably would have done creative writing courses now. So I met him in a squat in London in 1975. And then Chrissie Toubkin was my big pal. Chrissie was reading philosophy at the Polytechnic where I was doing my study of history. And we hooked up through humor, really — a few taglines from the Goons and so on. But we then discovered that we both heard of Firesign Theatre. Steve had introduced me to them. He played the Nick Danger side of All Hail [How Can You Be in Two Places at Once When You’re Not Anywhere at All], as I shall short-hand it, first, which I thought was very funny because, I’d been doing all-nighters at the local cinema with Chrissie, and we’d done most of the film noir things, so we picked it up. We’d seen The Maltese Falcon and so on. So that was that. And Chrissie and I said, well, look, we don’t really want to do music. We’d interviewed Steve Miller, which was the centerpiece of the magazine — the Steve Miller Band — and we’d done enough of that, so we wanted to do something more to do with humor. And we all were modestly quite funny people so it seemed fitting that we should tackle a bunch of funny people from America. And that’s precisely what Chrissie and I set out to do really. We found Firesign Theatre, we stumbled on it through luck. And once we got one, we traced [Don’t Crush That] Dwarf, which came out a bit later on. But we all had All Hail. Some of us had [Waiting for the] Electrician. And it was just intellectually challenging. It wasn’t the sort of thing that you listen to it once, like Cheech and Chong, and you’ve forgotten it. Jeremy: And Chrissie did the “Quick Short Circuit Round the Firesign Theatre,” which is one of the things that really blew my mind. Phil: It is mind-blowing, it is. Jeremy: And you kindly allowed me to include it in my book. And so I think we have Steve [Burgess], Phil Vellender, Christina Toubkin, [and] Hamish Orr did the fake advertisements, is that right? Phil: Hamish did the fake advertising. Peter Wynn-Owen, who was a friend of my brother’s, went to art school in London, [and] he offered to do the Firesign Theatre logo [that] we had, which was a battery connected to neon lighting. We modestly thought [it] was better than anything they had on their album sleeves but unfortunately Columbia weren’t interested. Jeremy: Some of their album covers are better than others, that’s for sure. Phil: Oh yeah, but don’t let’s quibble about that. They are generally very funny. Jeremy: So how did you discover Firesign Theatre? I understand the records would only have been available on import in London in the 70s, right? Phil: Well, we were habitués, is the trendy word in the ’68 days, habitués of certain shops in London. Now, quickly to explain to your listeners or viewers, the majority of American music of the psychedelic variety arrived in London in two or three record stores. And unlike in America, where you had to live in Chicago to get Chicago and you had to go to L.A. to get L.A., it was all collected together in one place in those days, which was quite rare. I mean, I want you to think Tower Records kind of thing. They were all there. But we had a marvelously cliquey, elitist view of this. And we would go there. And we would spend our ill-gotten student money from the government on imports. And we all discovered this Firesign Theatre. And I said, do you know what? Let’s do an evening of Firesign. So we did. We got together. And I won’t go into the detail of how the evening progressed, but let’s put it this way: there was a lot of laughter and some of it hysterical. And the Firesign Theatre albums we actually decided to do that evening were All Hail and Dwarf. And Dwarf, we had to play it twice because we just couldn’t believe how good it was. And it reminded us very much of music by the Beatles, like Sgt. Pepper or those kind of multi-tracked albums, which one discovered were only done on four-track stereo (though I did find out fairly early on that the Firesign were using, later on anyway, much more sophisticated recording than that). But anyway, we all got absolutely hooked on Firesign at that point. And Steve said, look, I’m not going to be able to hang out with you guys often enough to do this. So why don’t you go ahead and do it? So he never gave up on Firesign, but he pulled out of that particular angle and left it to us. So Chrissie and I would get together every Saturday night, every weekend. I’d go to her bedsit in Notting Hill, in west London, and we would listen to the albums. And then we started to create this article. And Chrissie said, I think we need a diagram. And that’s what that was. And I left that to her because she had it in her head. And it was like, you know, it was like peeling a glass onion, if you like. She just got it out on paper. Hamish didn’t come in on that. He would have done a lovely graphic job on it because he was a professional graphic artist, but he wasn’t around to do it. So we did it. And that became the kind of key to what we were going to do. And then we decided to split it in two. We’d do a political kind of overview and then we’d look at the albums individually. And then we definitely decided to do our own reading list where we would insert one-liners of our own choice, you know, some funnier than others. But we wanted to show that we could hold our own with Firesign, albeit from the other side of the pond. Jeremy: Right. And so that’s why I remember I asked you, why did you call it Trailing Clouds of Glory — were you quoting Firesign or Wordsworth? And you said, “Oh, we were really interested in the radical republican Wordsworth.” So you said you’re quoting [Wordsworth’s] Intimations Ode. But I think that probably the more accurate answer is that it was as if you were telling Firesign that you knew the reference. Phil: Oh, we love the Firesign line, you know, that “trailing clouds of glory, I’m down, I’m down,” you know, “powerful windshield” and all that. I mean, the whole Korean War stuff just cracked us up. And we obviously had seen a lot of those movies, those black-and-white war movies. So that came in. But the thing about that was that Chrissie had studied the Romantics at A-level, which was pre-university. And Richard was mad on Shelley, so he was saying, you know, “trailing clouds of glory,” isn’t there a Shelley quote?” And I said “No, let’s go with this one” and then Hamish walked in with the mandolin biplane logo [the cover image] and so we thought well that’s it really. I must say I think it was a sensible title. Lots of people asked about it, that’s what was good. And we were all [politically] republicans [i.e. they all opposed the British monarchy and Crown] and we all liked the younger Romantics so that was how that came about. Jeremy: I want to get back to that question of politics in a second. It occurs to me to ask, since you were especially drawn to Dwarf, I’m wonde