I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did! You can find James at JamesAPearson.com or on Instagram @JamesAPearson And check out his fantastic newsletter here. There are so many beautiful insights each Sunday. We talk about one of my favorites towards the middle of this interview. And of course, The Wilderness That Bears Your Name, James’ book of poems. It is a fantastic gift, I have sent it to friends of mine during their own moments of winter or even spring. MADISONJames, I’m so excited to be talking to you today. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for weeks now, especially because I have my new baby and she doesn’t stick to a schedule. Even the ones that she’s supposed to. So having phone calls is definitely not. On her radar. JAMESI’ve been looking forward to it too. I just snuck away from my 16-month-old son and my wife is very generously taking him out to a park so we can chat. So I get it. MADISON Oh my gosh. It’s like impossible. I’m usually very dependable. And I think one of the hardest things that I’ve had to deal with is not being as dependable and being a little flakier. JAMESYeah. Losing that level of control. MADISONYeah, I just want to be able to do the things I say I can do. I usually don’t overextend myself. Usually, I know what my limit is, and I’m like, oh, I don’t know my limit anymore. JAMESYeah, I absolutely hear that. JAMESI mean, I think I’m almost 10 or nine or 10 months, further along on the (parenthood) journey than you and I haven’t cracked that code. So if you crack it, then please let me know. MADISONWell, that’s good that I have that to look forward to: feeling this way for the next… however long that’s going to be! I was excited to talk to you because you’re going through this similar experience. I keep forwarding your newsletters to my partner because he is having the fatherhood experience too. And so much of what you’re saying, I feel like it so directly applies to what he’s going through. JAMESOh, I’m glad I’m not alone in it. MADISONYeah, he’s always like, thanks for sending these. He loves your newsletter. JAMESThat’s wonderful, Thank you. MADISON Maybe you can start by saying a little bit about yourself and how you got here, and what you’ve been up to lately. JAMESYeah, totally. Well, let’s see. I am, what still feels like, a very new (Dad) at 16 months. And just before my son was born, I took about five years worth of poetry that I’d been writing and I compiled it all into a book that I published. It’s called The Wilderness That Bears Your Name. So I’ve had this really fascinating like dual experience since his birth of the book being out in the world and my son being out in the world. And the book about, I think it was a month after I published it, the Instagram algorithm suddenly took it and blew up one of my poems. And so it’s just started to take off, which for me, my poetry reaching people out in the world is such a dream. It’s like, oh my gosh, it’s happening. And at the same time, my son was born and I had less time and attention than ever to actually give to that. And so it’s just been this wild dual process of my time and my attention being so limited and my desire to engage with my other work in the world being larger than ever and kind of just living the tension between those two. MADISONYou know, when you go into parenthood, that your time and attention is going to be so much more limited. But when you actually experience it, especially where there is something you’ve been working on for so long. JAMESAnd it’s like I knew it to some extent, I keep telling people there is nothing anyone could have said that would have prepared me for the actual lived experience of it. Life just feels completely different MADISONWhat do you think is like the biggest difference if you were to try to explain it to someone? JAMESI was talking to my wife about how my experience of fatherhood, and it’s not so much a transformation of identity, it’s like a big addition to identity or a big addition to what my life is asking of me. But my actual time to give to my life didn’t grow at all. And so I think the biggest change, or the change that I’m kind of dealing with is, my son is very… I feel very lucky. He’s very active. He’s developing great. He’s just a cannonball of a human being who does not care for sleep. And so I get slivers of time where I can focus on anything other than him. Because when he’s awake and I’m with him, he is demanding my full attention almost all the time. And so it’s that dual thing of that can be so energetically demanding to just be in moment to moment relationship with this little creature. And at the end of that day or in the slivers that I have, there’s a decompression, and also there’s stuff I want to do, you know, like I still want to live the rest of my life too. There’s just no space for it. MADISONAnd yeah, having the energy to do the things that you want to do. Like I’ve had the evenings free for the last two weeks, but I just keep watching. I’m like rewatching The L Word. It’s so mindless. JAMESFor me, it’s The West Wing. MADISONAnd my partner’s like sitting on the laptop writing, he’s been writing like every single night for those two weeks. But I’m just like, I can’t. I want to but it’s just so challenging. But yeah finding time… like right now, you were saying that your wife’s watching your son. JAMESYeah, she took him took him to a park. MADISONYeah, my husband’s watching the monitor right now. Yeah, you’re just like stealing this time whenever you can to be yourself. JAMESYes. Exactly. To be yourself sort of undemanded by another person. MADISONRight. Yeah. Cause you’re yourself all the time. Yeah. That’s so true. You’re yourself all the time, but you’re in caretaking mode. JAMESYeah, totally. You’re the version of yourself that shows up for that relationship. MADISONYes, exactly. All the time. JAMESAll the time. MADISONYes. Well, that’s one of the things I wanted to talk to you about because your book is so inherently about grief. And I know that there are a lot of interviews with you talking about that experience. And I also would love to talk to you about that experience, but I’ve been sort of curious about the newsletters that you’ve been writing lately that talks about your grief in relation to your relationship with your child, but then also what we were just talking about now, kind of like finding space forall these versions of yourself. One of the ones that really stuck out to me was a newsletter where you were talking about your son playing in the backyard and he’s like going to grab a weed or something he starts to put it to his mouth and as soon as you —well maybe you tell the story because you were there! JAMESI know the one you’re talking about, yeah I think he was probably seven months old or something like that and we would take him down to a beach near our house, and it was the least relaxing experience of all time because it’s a beach that’s all little pebbles. It’s not sand. And when we would set him down, he would try to shove handfuls of pebbles in his mouth. And so it was just this constant vigilance, right? So we were working with him, saying, “not for the mouth, not for eating”, you know, “here’s what we eat, here’s what we don’t eat”, all that stuff. And then one day we’re in our backyard and I see him pick up a weed or a rock or something. And, it was like his body was doing the, ‘I’m going to put it in my mouth.’ And then I just saw him like stop, like hit the brakes with almost a force of will slowly put it down. And I had this dual feeling in my body of: one, I’m so proud of him for doing that. And then also feeling this grief come up that the just free animal of him just got mediated, just got moderated. And it was my voice and my influence that kind of—he brought in or came in and prompted him to put on the brakes. And it’s like this, yeah, it’s beautiful. It’s so beautiful that he’s learning, he’s growing, he’s becoming what we think of as human, you know? And at the same time, there is this just free, carefree version of him that is being lost. MADISONYeah, that hit so hard because that is gonna happen. And maybe you wouldn’t even notice it. JAMESOh, 100%. I’m sure that sort of stuff is happening every day in ways that I don’t see. MADISONYeah, absolutely. I know, it’s like wondering what they’re thinking or how they’re making their decisions. Are they making decisions? Are they just acting off of a complete impulse? JAMESI just had a moment last night. So my son, from so early on, he’s just loved to throw things. And he’s getting better and better at throwing. And he throws hard now. At dinner, I sit on his right side, which is his throwing side. Before dinner every night, I go and I “scrub-in” where I put on like an old ratty shirt and old ratty sweats because I’m probably going to get pelted with food. And so we’re slowly teaching him (not to throw). And so last night he picks up a handful of food and rears back and I go and I kind of just softly put my hand on his hand, and say, “no throwing food.” And he does this really funny sort of like— (recalibrating face) with my hand on his hand, (and) you can tell his body wants to throw so badly. And he’s kind of like, “how do I get it to do something else? I don’t, I don’t know.” So, I mean, it is, it’s all, it’s happening all the time. MADISONThat’s fascinating, actually. To think about like the… domestification… the same way that you would, you know, an animal. I mean, we are animals. I always think about that whenever I see a little kid, I’m always like, well, they’re just basically an ape right now. JAMESOh, little primates. 100%. MADISONYes. And you have to just keep… I was about say