Holding Space LA Podcast

Heartfelt conversations on grief, art, and healing, exploring the connections that bring us closer with moments of joy, wonder, and reflection.

A place to acknowledge the grief and joy in our lives using art, puppetry, and mindfulness. mindovermadison.substack.com

Episodes

  1. 12/03/2025

    Holding Space with James A. Pearson

    I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did! You can find James at JamesAPearson.com or on Instagram @JamesAPearson And check out his fantastic newsletter here. There are so many beautiful insights each Sunday. We talk about one of my favorites towards the middle of this interview. And of course, The Wilderness That Bears Your Name, James’ book of poems. It is a fantastic gift, I have sent it to friends of mine during their own moments of winter or even spring. MADISONJames, I’m so excited to be talking to you today. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for weeks now, especially because I have my new baby and she doesn’t stick to a schedule. Even the ones that she’s supposed to. So having phone calls is definitely not. On her radar. JAMESI’ve been looking forward to it too. I just snuck away from my 16-month-old son and my wife is very generously taking him out to a park so we can chat. So I get it. MADISON Oh my gosh. It’s like impossible. I’m usually very dependable. And I think one of the hardest things that I’ve had to deal with is not being as dependable and being a little flakier. JAMESYeah. Losing that level of control. MADISONYeah, I just want to be able to do the things I say I can do. I usually don’t overextend myself. Usually, I know what my limit is, and I’m like, oh, I don’t know my limit anymore. JAMESYeah, I absolutely hear that. JAMESI mean, I think I’m almost 10 or nine or 10 months, further along on the (parenthood) journey than you and I haven’t cracked that code. So if you crack it, then please let me know. MADISONWell, that’s good that I have that to look forward to: feeling this way for the next… however long that’s going to be! I was excited to talk to you because you’re going through this similar experience. I keep forwarding your newsletters to my partner because he is having the fatherhood experience too. And so much of what you’re saying, I feel like it so directly applies to what he’s going through. JAMESOh, I’m glad I’m not alone in it. MADISONYeah, he’s always like, thanks for sending these. He loves your newsletter. JAMESThat’s wonderful, Thank you. MADISON Maybe you can start by saying a little bit about yourself and how you got here, and what you’ve been up to lately. JAMESYeah, totally. Well, let’s see. I am, what still feels like, a very new (Dad) at 16 months. And just before my son was born, I took about five years worth of poetry that I’d been writing and I compiled it all into a book that I published. It’s called The Wilderness That Bears Your Name. So I’ve had this really fascinating like dual experience since his birth of the book being out in the world and my son being out in the world. And the book about, I think it was a month after I published it, the Instagram algorithm suddenly took it and blew up one of my poems. And so it’s just started to take off, which for me, my poetry reaching people out in the world is such a dream. It’s like, oh my gosh, it’s happening. And at the same time, my son was born and I had less time and attention than ever to actually give to that. And so it’s just been this wild dual process of my time and my attention being so limited and my desire to engage with my other work in the world being larger than ever and kind of just living the tension between those two. MADISONYou know, when you go into parenthood, that your time and attention is going to be so much more limited. But when you actually experience it, especially where there is something you’ve been working on for so long. JAMESAnd it’s like I knew it to some extent, I keep telling people there is nothing anyone could have said that would have prepared me for the actual lived experience of it. Life just feels completely different MADISONWhat do you think is like the biggest difference if you were to try to explain it to someone? JAMESI was talking to my wife about how my experience of fatherhood, and it’s not so much a transformation of identity, it’s like a big addition to identity or a big addition to what my life is asking of me. But my actual time to give to my life didn’t grow at all. And so I think the biggest change, or the change that I’m kind of dealing with is, my son is very… I feel very lucky. He’s very active. He’s developing great. He’s just a cannonball of a human being who does not care for sleep. And so I get slivers of time where I can focus on anything other than him. Because when he’s awake and I’m with him, he is demanding my full attention almost all the time. And so it’s that dual thing of that can be so energetically demanding to just be in moment to moment relationship with this little creature. And at the end of that day or in the slivers that I have, there’s a decompression, and also there’s stuff I want to do, you know, like I still want to live the rest of my life too. There’s just no space for it. MADISONAnd yeah, having the energy to do the things that you want to do. Like I’ve had the evenings free for the last two weeks, but I just keep watching. I’m like rewatching The L Word. It’s so mindless. JAMESFor me, it’s The West Wing. MADISONAnd my partner’s like sitting on the laptop writing, he’s been writing like every single night for those two weeks. But I’m just like, I can’t. I want to but it’s just so challenging. But yeah finding time… like right now, you were saying that your wife’s watching your son. JAMESYeah, she took him took him to a park. MADISONYeah, my husband’s watching the monitor right now. Yeah, you’re just like stealing this time whenever you can to be yourself. JAMESYes. Exactly. To be yourself sort of undemanded by another person. MADISONRight. Yeah. Cause you’re yourself all the time. Yeah. That’s so true. You’re yourself all the time, but you’re in caretaking mode. JAMESYeah, totally. You’re the version of yourself that shows up for that relationship. MADISONYes, exactly. All the time. JAMESAll the time. MADISONYes. Well, that’s one of the things I wanted to talk to you about because your book is so inherently about grief. And I know that there are a lot of interviews with you talking about that experience. And I also would love to talk to you about that experience, but I’ve been sort of curious about the newsletters that you’ve been writing lately that talks about your grief in relation to your relationship with your child, but then also what we were just talking about now, kind of like finding space forall these versions of yourself. One of the ones that really stuck out to me was a newsletter where you were talking about your son playing in the backyard and he’s like going to grab a weed or something he starts to put it to his mouth and as soon as you —well maybe you tell the story because you were there! JAMESI know the one you’re talking about, yeah I think he was probably seven months old or something like that and we would take him down to a beach near our house, and it was the least relaxing experience of all time because it’s a beach that’s all little pebbles. It’s not sand. And when we would set him down, he would try to shove handfuls of pebbles in his mouth. And so it was just this constant vigilance, right? So we were working with him, saying, “not for the mouth, not for eating”, you know, “here’s what we eat, here’s what we don’t eat”, all that stuff. And then one day we’re in our backyard and I see him pick up a weed or a rock or something. And, it was like his body was doing the, ‘I’m going to put it in my mouth.’ And then I just saw him like stop, like hit the brakes with almost a force of will slowly put it down. And I had this dual feeling in my body of: one, I’m so proud of him for doing that. And then also feeling this grief come up that the just free animal of him just got mediated, just got moderated. And it was my voice and my influence that kind of—he brought in or came in and prompted him to put on the brakes. And it’s like this, yeah, it’s beautiful. It’s so beautiful that he’s learning, he’s growing, he’s becoming what we think of as human, you know? And at the same time, there is this just free, carefree version of him that is being lost. MADISONYeah, that hit so hard because that is gonna happen. And maybe you wouldn’t even notice it. JAMESOh, 100%. I’m sure that sort of stuff is happening every day in ways that I don’t see. MADISONYeah, absolutely. I know, it’s like wondering what they’re thinking or how they’re making their decisions. Are they making decisions? Are they just acting off of a complete impulse? JAMESI just had a moment last night. So my son, from so early on, he’s just loved to throw things. And he’s getting better and better at throwing. And he throws hard now. At dinner, I sit on his right side, which is his throwing side. Before dinner every night, I go and I “scrub-in” where I put on like an old ratty shirt and old ratty sweats because I’m probably going to get pelted with food. And so we’re slowly teaching him (not to throw). And so last night he picks up a handful of food and rears back and I go and I kind of just softly put my hand on his hand, and say, “no throwing food.” And he does this really funny sort of like— (recalibrating face) with my hand on his hand, (and) you can tell his body wants to throw so badly. And he’s kind of like, “how do I get it to do something else? I don’t, I don’t know.” So, I mean, it is, it’s all, it’s happening all the time. MADISONThat’s fascinating, actually. To think about like the… domestification… the same way that you would, you know, an animal. I mean, we are animals. I always think about that whenever I see a little kid, I’m always like, well, they’re just basically an ape right now. JAMESOh, little primates. 100%. MADISONYes. And you have to just keep… I was about say

    Holding Space with James A. Pearson
  2. 07/30/2025

    Holding Space x Compound LB | Recap

    I am so excited to tell you about the “Art For All” workshop that we did this weekend in partnership with Compound Long Beach and Plant Like Things. It was such a fun event. We really made some great connections and heard from so many different people. Everybody came with such an open heart and willingness to meet in community with others and to talk about their feelings of grief, loss. and joy. We talked about Holding Space and the goal of normalizing grief using art. Elizabeth Garcia from Plant Like Things brought these amazing teas and tinctures and provided a grounding, nurturing element to this event. The workshop encouraged participants to create a multi-media collage inspired by a one-word prompt. We did a short meditation (included at the end of this voice recording above) that offered the prompt meant to help focus our feelings and inspire our work. We then encouraged everyone to make a collage, or to draw, or write, or journal… whatever felt right for them. There were about 45 or 50 people who came out to participate, and pretty much everyone stayed almost an hour over because we all just got really into making these pieces together. I was so touched by this, because I couldn’t help but think: if each of these 45 or 50 people have one person ask them, “what did you do this weekend?” That could inspire another 45 or 50 conversations about grief, helping to normalize those kinds of conversations. It may seem small, but conversations like this help our communities heal, help individuals heal, and make our culture just that tiny bit more comfortable talking about these topics in a way that doesn't have to be so intense. And maybe if we do this enough, we can start to incorporate our joy and our loss into our normal lives. I want to thank Compound for having us. In case you don't know, Compound is a cultural complex in the heart of the Zaferia district of Long Beach, California – dedicated to individual transformation and social impact. We provide a communal context to reexamine and transform ourselves, our purpose, and our communities through a rich variety of contemporary art, wellness programming, live performances, and culinary experiences. They're just so cool. And we also worked with Elizabeth Garcia. She is a Colombian-American herbalist, INELDA-trained end-of-life doula, and graduate of the School of the Sacred Wild. Rooted in Earth-based healing, she weaves together herbal medicine, ancestral wisdom, and spiritual care to offer safe, grounded spaces for those moving through loss, transition, and transformation. Thank you to everyone who came out, and kudos to you for taking time to hold space for your truest forms. I am thankful to have been a part of it and to be able to share the meditation with you now. You can check it out in the audio recording above (the meditation starts around the 6-minute mark). You might even grab a pen or pencil, some glue, and some old magazines to make something of your own. Get full access to Holding Space LA at mindovermadison.substack.com/subscribe

  3. 01/15/2025

    A Painful Gap: Navigating Grief for a World on Fire

    This fall and winter have been times of big transitions for me. I have been looking forward to January as a moment to regroup before the biggest transition of my life. But I’ve found instead that the final month of my pregnancy would be punctuated with fire… For those who don’t know, I’m currently 38 weeks pregnant living just a short drive from several fires in Los Angeles. I may be in my last hours, days, or weeks of carrying this little one, only time will tell. The past few months have been very stressful; trying to balance a busy life with many curve balls while adapting to this huge transition of identity, body, and lifestyle as I prepare for parenthood. I was starting to feel settled into a moment of calm earlier last week, when we got a sudden alert about high, potentially “deadly” winds. We didn’t realize when we saw this weather warning that our entire city would be covered in soot, ash, and smoke from out of control wildfires in each corner of the city. The past week we have seen post after post of friends fleeing their homes with whatever they could grab, not knowing if they would have a safe place to come back to… Some have already lost their homes and everything in them; some have even lost entire neighborhoods to these flames. Shops to sip tea, eat ice cream, or find a great vintage shirt, are gone. Schools, historic buildings, and precious landmarks are left damaged or destroyed. Wildlife has been displaced, crying out from windy trees, reminding us that these problems are exacerbated by our inability to prioritize the one thing that matters most to all living creatures: this earth itself. And of course, our precious human communities will now be fractured by the choice some of us have to make between rebuilding from the ash or starting over someplace else… It can be difficult to stay present with all these losses. Our minds spinning and spiraling with so much uncertainty ahead. Maybe we even feel guilty if we don’t indulge in the misery that so many people and creatures don’t have the privilege to ignore. This is something most of us struggle with as we are expected to simultaneously go back to work or run errands and continue as normal… benefiting who? It is frustrating, even infuriating. The hubris of building a society in fire zones. The audacity we each have when we choose to live here, knowing it is a major earthquake and fire city. The gross negligence of our leadership for decades, to not only prioritize less-important matters, but to divide us up into enemies in order to do so. And most of all, the arrogance it takes to ignore and even deny climate change so blatantly. We have to cope with the terrifying reality that there are thousands of people who are willing to let entire cities full of communities and animals and ecosystems suffer in order to maintain their own wealth. People who are actively on duty under the orders of growing profits for a small group of elite shareholders. And somehow it works. They seem to avoid these crises completely unscathed while we are left to clean up the rubble. Not only that, but we are expected to show up to work, grief-stricken and scared, so we can continue to proliferate this oppressive system. I struggle at times to know my place as an individual grieving and my place as someone who is offering a safe space to grieve. Maybe this isn’t what my role at Holding Space is for, but this is where my mind wanders right now… and sometimes it is hard for me to know where my motivation behind Holding Space ends and the more physical Holding Space project starts. —In a perfect world, I would want even the most callous businessman to experience Holding Space because this moment requires us all to question our values. It’s a time to reconsider how we rebuild, how we show up, how we hold our individual and collective grief. And if we can take moments where we pause, it gives us a chance to stop blaming each other. Maybe even accessing moments of space held for the CEO, politician, or billionaire we disagree with. An opportunity to reveal the chain of circumstances that pin us all against our own best judgment and values. Even a chance to interrogate together: What has left you grief-stricken? How does it feel to carry out the work that you do? How do you wish it was different? These questions I’m genuinely curious about and strangely apply to us all, not just billionaires and top-tier executives. Which of us hasn’t had to justify our actions at work saying, “I’m just doing my job” or “If I don’t, someone else will” or “You gotta pay the bills somehow”? We are all forced to make decisions that go against our principles every day. Even the decision to drive a car to work, instead of say public transit or a bicycle, can be devastating if we think about it deeply. Often the options we wish we could utilize are unavailable to us; or so inconvenient that we can’t justify sacrificing the time or safety to do something more ethical. Hundreds of decisions we have to make each day, most of which go against our deepest and most precious principles, all of them contributing to the destruction we see on our screens from these fires. And we know it… How do you live with that sort of conflict? In many ways, we have no other choice… And to me, that is the source of our community grief. That is a main reason I started Holding Space: to have a place to acknowledge the painful gap between our cherished values and our living reality. A gap so big that it often feels like a chasm. Now, bringing a child into this world, I wonder how I will cope with this new responsibility. How will I balance this guilt and grief with the choice I made to throw another soul into the mix… I guess the answer that pops into my mind when I ask myself this question is: love. Trite but true, as so many honest things often are. If we justify the darkness we are forced to comply with, we have to also make an effort to prioritize community and togetherness. When it feels bleak and we start to spiral, we must take time and also acknowledge moments of support from a treasured friend or a good Samaritan. And give back whatever we are able, even if it is on a micro-scale. That’s what we can work on facilitating here. Amongst fire and brimstone, hell on earth, there are glimpses of heaven and healing if we pause long enough to see them. If we take moments to recognize the very deep and very real pain and disappointment we have in the shape of this society, it can help us heal. And we absolutely must heal if we want to enact any tangible change. We will not heal by ignoring it and pushing onward. First we must weep. If we can take moments where we pause it gives us a chance to stop blaming each other. Maybe even accessing moments of space held for the CEO, politician, or billionaire we disagree with. An opportunity to reveal the chain of circumstances that pin us all against our own best judgment and values. Guiding us to the humanity behind these systems so we may hold space for forgiveness. We may even find that this bold act of forgiving brings us much-needed relief. — I will be on maternity leave this winter, but I plan to resume Holding Space installations as well as puppet and costume fabrication in the Spring/Summer. If you know a community suffering from the fires who could benefit from grief support, especially people in helping-professions like fire fighters and first responders, please share our information with them. This is a link to a post making it easy to share a brief summary of what Holding Space is, who it’s for, and how they can get in touch for grief support in the wake of these immense losses. For those of you in the Los Angeles area, please stay safe, stay vigilant, and take moments to check in with yourself. Actively taking time to process grief, however it presents itself, is vital to developing an honest understanding of ourselves. You deserve that time and care. Please share this post about Holding Space’s offerings with anyone you think could benefit from grief support in the Los Angeles Area. Get full access to Holding Space LA at mindovermadison.substack.com/subscribe

  4. 12/23/2024

    "Tender Containers"

    Lisa Ernst is a renowned meditation teacher, artist, and founder of One Dharma Nashville. With over 30 years of practice in Zen, Insight, and Vipassana traditions, Lisa’s work blends mindfulness with a focus on everyday awakening and transformational insight. She’s also a talented visual artist, known for her contemplative photography and nature-inspired art, which have been featured in galleries and exhibitions across the U.S. I recently had the opportunity to attend a meditation retreat Lisa co-led with Trudy Goodman at Big Bear Retreat Center in Southern California. During her talks, Lisa focused on how her mindfulness practice has been informed by her life experiences. Her strength and vulnerability around the loss of her parents at a young age was inspiring, and I am so grateful to have had the chance to talk more with Lisa during this interview.Please enjoy this conversation, where we dive into Lisa’s journey with grief, mindfulness, art, and community support, as well as what we can do to support ourselves and each other during the holidays.  Below is an abridged transcript, to hear the full conversation, check out the recording above here on substack, or on the podcast app. MADISONThank you so much for the retreat and all the offerings you put together. It was such a helpful and wonderful experience... It was my first Vipassana retreat and I thought the silent part would be a lot more challenging... I found it very supportive and liberating... it was just wonderful. I was really moved by the story you told during your Dharma talk, can you talk a little about your background and how you started One Dharma and how your experiences with grief have informed your practice? LISAFor the first 10 years of my practice I was in the Zen tradition… (but I) had a bad experience with some teachers and I had to leave that tradition at a certain point. But when I left I realized how much the sangha (Pali word that means"association", "assembly", "company" or "community") felt like a family to me… It was so deeply ingrained in my life that when I left and I no longer had a sangha, that was really lonely. I had to work with that loneliness and find a way to grieve. I had invested so much into it. And then after a couple of years of being away, reassessing where I was, I moved more fully into the insight tradition, but still very strongly influenced by Zen. And I started wanting community again, so I decided I'd put it out there to form a community that felt like a fit for where I was and see if there was a response. So (this is how I) started One Dharma and it caught on. People came and (eventually) I (entered) more of a formal teaching role. Then Trudy Goodman came to Nashville and gave me a formal teaching authorization. From there we started offering retreats through One Dharma and (developed) more systematic forms of teaching the Dharma after that. But that's kind of where the starting point was, just wanting to have some Dharma friends to sit with. MADISONOh, that's so sweet. Yeah, I feel like that really is the challenge, (finding) these spaces where you can discuss or explore these sorts of thoughts or modalities. You do kind of have to set aside a space for it. It's not easy to just be at a party or have people over get into that space. LISADefinitely, because… even having that common ground is so important. MADISONDid you know there was interest already? Did you have a little core of people that you had in mind when starting One Dharma? LISAI did. I knew some people that meditated already, so when I opened One Dharma (it was) kind of a small group, maybe about eight people and they were people that I knew through meditation. MADISONAnd did you meet them through a meditation practice or was it just realizing that you have this common interest? LISAIt was a mix of meditation and there were some other modalities some of us were doing at the time that were related to… therapy, personal healing, dealing with trauma, and difficulties in life. MADISONHow do you use meditation for processing trauma? Can you explain a bit about what that was within this group? LISAYeah, there was a group in town at the time, It was really kind of a little bit unconventional. It wasn't traditional psychotherapy, but it was more experiential-based. And so we would be in groups together and have chances to do some enactments and ways of working with trauma, with the guidance of trained professionals and social workers. But then there was also a meditation component. So we did some active work with issues around trauma, but we also did meditation, and I just found, personally, the meditation to be profoundly helpful, and that’s not always the case for everyone. Some people coming in with a lot of trauma can't just dive into meditation because they get so close to their trauma sometimes. And if they don't have the right mechanisms to work with that it can be difficult. (Some people have to) go really, really slowly. For me, it wasn't like that… I had so much grief built up and I had needed an outlet. I found that sitting and doing that kind of deep open awareness practice gave me room to move through it. You could say I was ripe for a way to open my heart and mind to what needed to move through me and …(it was) that open awareness, that did it. And it wasn't with me trying to force it or to bare knuckle it or anything like that. It was more just feeling. I'd sit. I'd feel a felt sense of some tightness in my chest or something and then I'd slowly let it open up and there was a lot of tears that came and a lot of emotion that came. But it felt very freeing rather than problematic or compounding trauma.It just felt like over the course of maybe a year, I was able to release all this, this grief that had been building up and had built up inside of me for so long. And it really made an enormous difference. I was working with a psychotherapist at a time who was very pro-meditation and she was totally supportive of the path that I was on and knew that it was profoundly helpful for me. I was just at the right point to be able to do that and to have that grief. And the work I was doing with the groups was really helpful for me to be socialized and to get out of being totally isolated and to be able to share my feelings and what was going on within a group of people that were in the same boat in a lot of ways. But it was the sitting, you know? The sitting in the open awareness that was really where everything started cracking open for me. MADISONThat's really interesting. When I was grieving compounded losses in my life, there was more of an internal experience first, before a more external one was, as you said, ripe or possible. I think that once you open up to a community, that's when you really shift from pure experiencing and processing to actually integrating the grief into your life. It's no longer just happening to me by myself. LISAYes, that's a good point, because a community can create a lot of stability, so you're not just bare-knuckling it on your own. There are other people that are going through (it with you). It really helps to normalize (the grief) a little bit, even if (your circumstances are) out of the ordinary (like in the case of compounded) losses… It does create a lot of support. I'd spent too many years in isolation. And so having this community was so important to me and having the Dharma community was important. Then losing that was really painful. But coming back again and starting over was part of the process too. MADISONI was interested when you said that sometimes when people go into meditation after a lot of trauma or grief it can be difficult for them. You were saying during the retreat that you had actually taken some sort of meditation class in your high school during a time of profound grief, especially for a young person. I was wondering if you could tell me a little more about that. And if you think that helped prime the pump for you to have a positive experience with meditating through trauma? LISA That's a good question. When I heard the teachings of the Buddha, it was like, “Oh my gosh!” This is the first thing that's made sense to me in any kind of spirituality. (The idea that) everything that has the nature to arise (also) has the nature to pass away. I heard those words and I thought, okay, my parents are both dead, you know, I'm 16. And of course, I couldn't make sense of life, but it just gave me a moment of clarity. I had much more work to do, but it touched something deep in my heart. It gave me a sense that this isn't just about me. This is the human condition and that was really helpful because so much was so internal. It's like, why do I have such bad karma? Why did this happen to me? You know, there were all the voices that created… that second layer of suffering because it was all about me. And realizing (this reality of the nature of life) gave me a little space. For a while after I discovered Buddhism it was mostly just reading. I fell in love with all the stories of the wandering Zen monks and poets. All that was so fascinating to me. It was more intellectual (at that stage). I tried to meditate but I wasn't really ready yet. When I was ready I just happened to see a little ad for a Zen meditation group in town, and it just came at the right moment… Once I had my first sit, that was it. I was totally 100% committed to the path. MADISONDo you think there's any kind of serendipity to those right moments? LISAYeah, I think there was some serendipity. I came to take care of my grandmother when I was 19... but when she died, she was basically my final relative. My boyfriend at the time said, you know, there's something wrong, you need help. He was worried about me. I was going into such a dark place. That's when I started therapy and it's almost as if when I started therapy I was ready to start meditation. So it's just like everything came together at

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A place to acknowledge the grief and joy in our lives using art, puppetry, and mindfulness. mindovermadison.substack.com