Shame, Culture and the Therapist’s Inner World Shame is rarely just a feeling. It can live in the body, shape identity, distort responsibility, and quietly influence how therapists show up with clients. In this episode of Between Sessions, Ellen Yun and Dr Janet Penny explore shame through lived experience rather than clinical distance. Together, they reflect on how shame is shaped by culture, family, faith, immigration, professional identity and therapist training. Ellen shares from her experience of growing up within Chinese and British cultural contexts, where shame can be collective, relational and tied to family reputation, achievement and survival. Janet reflects on shame through a different lens, shaped by Christianity, duty, and growing up in a vicarage where being watched and representing more than yourself becomes part of the emotional atmosphere. We are also living in deeply polarised times, where public conversations can quickly become adversarial, people have less capacity for complexity, and there is often little room to move towards difficult but necessary dialogue. In that context, this episode offers listeners a flavour of what it can be like when two people, shaped by different cultures and racialisations, make space for a more open and reflective conversation. Ellen and Janet name where there is resonance between them, but also where there are real differences that make a difference. That matters, not only because it helps us understand one another more honestly, but because as therapists and as humans, we need spaces where difference does not automatically collapse into threat, defensiveness or silence. Together, they explore how shame can show up as heaviness, self-questioning, pleasing, freezing, defensiveness, over-responsibility and silence. They also reflect on what happens when therapists are given little space to be human, make mistakes, repair ruptures and stay present without collapsing into shame. This is a thoughtful conversation about what belongs to us, what does not, and what becomes possible when shame is named with honesty, curiosity and compassion. Go gently with this one. It may stir something tender. Timestamps 00:01 Welcome and why shame can be an activating topic 05:58 Cultural shame, family reputation and collective responsibility 11:32 Immigration, scarcity and intergenerational pressure 22:39 Shame in the body and learning what is not yours to carry 38:53 Therapist training, mistakes and the pressure to get it right 42:01 Rupture, repair and what helps shame soften 51:48 Closing reflections and questions for listeners Reflective questions for listeners What did you notice in your body as shame was discussed, and what might that response be protecting?Which messages about shame have you absorbed from your culture, family, faith background or professional training?When shame is activated in you, what does it pull you towards: pleasing, over-explaining, freezing, hiding, defensiveness, withdrawal, or something else?What are you carrying that is truly yours, and what might you have taken on that does not belong to you?How might your own relationship with shame affect the way you respond to clients, mistakes, vulnerability and repair? Ellen can be found at: Counselling Directory: https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/counsellors/ellen-yun Janet can be found at: https://drjanetpenny.com/home/
