SecurityCafé

Quint Ketting Menno van der Horst
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“Pull up a chair at the Security Café – your monthly deep dive into the hottest cybersecurity news and trends. Each episode brings you an inspiring guest and a story that will spark your imagination. Produced by Quint & Menno (Atos), this is where insights meet conversation. Don’t just stay informed—join the discussion!”

  1. Oct 6 ·  Bonus

    # Three sectors, one crisis — Martin de Vries **Live from CybersecNL — Episode 7 of 7, the finale**

    Note: the video focus slipped during this live recording at the booth. The conversation is the point, and the audio version is unaffected. Recorded at the Atos booth, CybersecNL 2026, minutes after Martin's main stage talk. Martin de Vries has worked in security across three sectors: banking, higher education and industry. He was CISO at a Dutch university when it was hit by a cyberattack, and now works in the industrial sector. Hosted by Menno van der Horst with Quint Ketting. ## Timestamps 00:00 Straight from the main stage 00:50 Three sectors: banking, higher education, industry 01:41 What changes when you move sectors: culture 02:26 What doesn't: listening, relationships, threats and risks 02:50 From highly regulated to compliance as an afterthought 03:20 The CISO as facilitator 04:20 "I own the process, not the risk" 05:28 Why "I told you so" isn't the answer 05:49 Accepting risk at the right level 06:24 Acquisitions, due diligence and security 07:28 The shelved report, and the ransomware that followed 09:42 You don't spend a million to avoid 1.2 10:12 The cyberattack on the university 12:18 A Signal message on a Saturday evening 13:19 Deciding near midnight without the business present 13:43 Having the mandate versus taking it 15:00 IT back online within a week 15:41 Postponing an entire exam week 17:13 Research grant deadlines and month-end salaries 18:20 Disconnecting the network, and session tokens expiring 19:01 Restoring, and in which order to reconnect 19:39 Taking care of your teams 21:59 Sending a whole team home for twelve hours 22:21 Quint: Slammer, and sleeping at the office at twenty 23:08 Room for the personal during a crisis 25:07 Sunday 9 a.m.: what do we share? 25:44 At a university, internal communication is public 26:17 One update per day, at a fixed time 28:32 Openness as part of the culture 29:44 Closing: talk to your counterparts in other sectors ## Key takeaways - Moving sectors changes the culture and maturity you work in. Threats, risks, measures and the need to listen stay the same. - The CISO owns the risk process, not the risk. The job is to find the risk owner and make sure the risk is understood and accepted at the right level. - After an incident, fix first. Then revisit the trade-off between impact and the cost of prevention. - Write down the mandate to disconnect, and make sure the rest of the organisation knows it exists. - Technical recovery within a week came from years of investing in processes. The business impact, from exams to grants to payroll, ran much longer. - Look after your people. Rotate shifts, and when needed send a whole team home. - Communicate once a day at a fixed time, identically internally and externally. It prevents everyone from refreshing for news. - Share what happened, so others don't make the same mistakes. ## Mentioned Fox-IT, which presented the incident analysis Maastricht University, which shared openly after its 2019 ransomware attack ## The full series Ramsés Gallego, Kelvin Rorive, Marianne Schinkel, Aernout Reijmer, Mandy Andress, Gilad Friedman and Martin de Vries. --- SecurityCafe. Powered by Atos.

    # Three sectors, one crisis — Martin de Vries **Live from CybersecNL — Episode 7 of 7, the finale**

  2. Oct 1 ·  Bonus

    # Securing agentic AI — Gilad Friedman **Live from CybersecNL — Episode 6 of 7**

    Recorded at the Atos booth, CybersecNL 2026. Gilad Friedman is part of the agentic AI protection team at Radware, a cybersecurity company with nearly 30 years in the business. Hosted by Menno van der Horst with Quint Ketting. Atos and Radware are partners. ## Timestamps 00:00 Recording number seven or eight — nobody is counting anymore 00:35 Gilad: Radware and agentic AI protection 01:40 The first AI risk isn't security. It's governance. 02:05 Then compliance and data leakage, then security 02:40 What people put into AI, and why they bypass the approved tools 03:40 AI-first boards and private accounts at work 04:55 Where are the agents, how many, and what access do they have? 05:15 Shadow AI 05:40 "Our AI policy is simple: it's not allowed" 06:10 Why blocking doesn't work 06:46 A policy is not protection 07:15 One enforcement point instead of twenty vendors 07:40 How do you get visibility on shadow AI? 08:15 Desktop, cloud, mobile and gateway 09:07 The hotel guest, the telecom and legal liability 10:00 On the verge of an explosion 10:30 Connecting AI the way we connected to the internet in the 90s 11:40 Customers: stop the fear, show us enablement 12:45 Build processes that expect the unexpected 13:04 Are today's controls enough for what is already out there? 13:50 What changes is the speed of response 14:20 Prompt injection: planted yesterday, triggered today 15:10 Stopping it, not only detecting it 16:10 Looking back: is your baseline good enough? 16:30 Indirect prompt injection, hallucinations and tool misuse 17:15 Agents inherit the credentials of the user 18:00 How many agents do you have? A silent audience 18:40 Radware drinks its own champagne 19:45 Most of it isn't malicious 20:05 Is credential inheritance simply bad design? 20:30 LLMs can't tell instructions from data 20:55 Infrastructure, architecture, governance, visibility, control 21:25 The major AI incident will come. We just don't know when. ## Key takeaways - The first AI risk organisations run into is governance: they do not know which AI tools and agents exist. Compliance and data leakage come second, security third. - Blocking AI does not stop its use. People move to private accounts, other devices and the web. A policy only works when you can enforce it. - Visibility has to cover desktop, cloud, mobile and the network edge, ideally from one enforcement point rather than a tool per vendor. - Agents inherit the credentials and permissions of the user who runs them. That turns every shared document into a possible attack path. - LLMs cannot distinguish instructions from data. An instruction hidden in an email, file, image or voice message gets executed with the victim's access. - Detection alone is not enough. When an agent asked to review a document starts touching financial systems, it has to be stopped automatically. - Most shadow AI is not malicious. It is people trying to keep up with an AI-first mandate. Enablement works better than fear. ## Mentioned Radware — https://www.radware.com ## Also in this series Ramsés Gallego, Kelvin Rorive, Marianne Schinkel, Aernout Reijmer and Mandy Andress — out now. Martin de Vries on securing different sectors — the series finale. --- SecurityCafe. Powered by Atos.

  3. Sep 29 ·  Bonus

    # Open source culture — Mandy Andress **Live from CybersecNL — Episode 5 of 7**

    Recorded at the Atos booth, CybersecNL 2026. Mandy Andress is CISO at Elastic, where she has worked for eight years. She was at CybersecNL to deliver a keynote on moving security from human speed to machine speed. Hosted by Menno van der Horst with Quint Ketting. Atos and Elastic work together in several areas, including search and SOC operations. ## Timestamps 00:00 Welcome, third recording of day two 00:16 Mandy: CISO at Elastic, and why she came to CybersecNL 00:58 How Atos and Elastic already work together 01:30 Speed, trust and instinct: incidents at human speed 02:06 Processes built on human delay no longer hold 02:47 The AI-native mindset security needs 03:22 Real-time analysis, and grounding AI with context 04:21 Drinking your own champagne 05:08 Open code, public detection rules, no black box 05:50 Sharing how the security team works, not only what it ships 06:16 "If I keep it to myself, I'm safer" 06:49 Security by obscurity is dead 07:29 Isn't all that openness a risk? 08:15 Knowing your coverage and your gaps as a practitioner 09:05 Security first versus commercial reality 10:14 Eight years at Elastic, and running security on the ELK stack 11:44 "Everything is a search problem" 13:28 Deciding without information: the TU/e breach 13:56 Log4j as a search problem 14:59 The client that went looking with paper and pen 15:40 Never waste a good crisis, and a business that didn't feel the risk 16:10 What if Slammer had targeted Log4j? 16:56 Mandy's keynote: from human speed to machine speed 17:49 Security hasn't changed. The speed has. 18:40 How many agents do you run, and what access do they have? ## Key takeaways - Most security processes are built on the delays that come with human speed. Those delays are gone, and many processes need to be turned around rather than tuned. - Security by obscurity relied on attackers lacking time, imagination or capability. AI agents have all three. - Openness is a security strength. Public code and public detection rules bring in the insight of the global community. - For practitioners, transparency means knowing exactly what a product covers and where you need to augment. A black box leaves you guessing whether you are safe. - Share how you work, not only what you build. Elastic's security team publishes what works, what doesn't, and what it is still figuring out. - Security is a search problem: finding patterns in data. When Log4j hit, knowing where it ran made the difference between acting in minutes and searching by hand. - Security itself hasn't changed. The speed at which we have to act on it has. ## Mentioned Elastic — https://www.elastic.co Elastic detection rules — https://github.com/elastic/detection-rules Elastic Security Labs — https://www.elastic.co/security-labs ## Also in this series Ramsés Gallego, Kelvin Rorive, Marianne Schinkel and Aernout Reijmer — out now. Gilad Friedman on AI as an attack vector — coming next. Martin de Vries on securing different sectors — the series finale. --- SecurityCafe. Powered by Atos.

  4. Sep 24 ·  Bonus

    # Real collaboration — Aernout Reijmer **Live from CybersecNL — Episode 4 of 7**

    Recorded at the Atos booth, CybersecNL 2026. Aernout Reijmer was CISO at ASML for seven to eight years and now runs Cyber Alloy. He co-founded the CISO Circle of Trust and chaired the Cyberweerbaarheidscentrum Brainport. Hosted by Menno van der Horst with Quint Ketting. ## Timestamps 00:00 Day two, back on the conference floor 00:25 Aernout: from CISO at ASML to Cyber Alloy 01:16 We will not win this fight in our own bubbles 02:19 CISO Circle of Trust, Brainport, and what he learned there 03:10 ISACs are good. They are not enough. 03:46 Metcalfe's law, and the CISO as bottleneck 04:46 Meeting at events is easy. Building something is the point. 05:52 No more talk shops: deliverables and orchestration 07:25 Attackers do not wait for signed agreements 07:45 Which deliverables? Intelligence, awareness, vulnerability triage 09:32 A preview of his talk: the urgency of protecting the digital economy 11:04 A prediction on enterprises breached through AI 11:44 Fighting AI with AI, and investing in trust 12:46 From Slammer to LLMs: machine speed meets APT intelligence 14:10 Why the company is called Cyber Alloy 14:48 Twenty-five years of experience, combined with AI natives 15:48 The short passwords an LLM will find first 16:19 Non-human identities: do we even know how many we have? 16:46 The race for AI talent 17:17 Why this needs to be European 17:33 Brain drain and fragmented capital 18:35 Pension funds, risk appetite and a larger European fund 19:07 Wrap-up, and an invitation to the studio ## Key takeaways - Sharing threat detection is only the start. Share how you fight a threat actor, what you learned after a breach, and how you improved. - The value of a network grows with the number of nodes. That only works if subject matter experts share, not only the CISOs. - CISOs build the trust at their level, then give their teams explicit permission and the task to share. It is part of work. - Collaboration without deliverables is a talk shop. Add an orchestrator: someone tasked by the group to turn a shared problem into a shared result. - Organisations produce awareness material and assess the same vulnerabilities in parallel. Doing it together multiplies the effect. - Trust built on a Friday evening at nine is too late. Put it on the agenda for Monday at ten. - Machine-speed attacks are not new. What is new is that LLMs combine that speed with the intelligence of APT groups. Days to respond become seconds. - Europe needs larger, less fragmented capital to keep its security companies and talent from leaving. ## Mentioned ASML Cyber Alloy - https://www.cyberalloy.eu CISO Circle of Trust Cyberweerbaarheidscentrum Brainport Non-human identities also came up with Ramsés Gallego in episode 1. ## Also in this series Ramsés Gallego, Kelvin Rorive and Marianne Schinkel — out now. Mandy Andress on open source culture — coming next. --- SecurityCafe. Powered by Atos.

    # Real collaboration — Aernout Reijmer **Live from CybersecNL — Episode 4 of 7**

  5. Sep 22 ·  Bonus

    # The CISO under pressure — Marianne Schinkel Live from CybersecNL — Episode 3 of 7

    Recorded at the Atos booth, at Cybersec NL 2026. Marianne Schinkel sits on the CybersecNL advisory board and works as an interim CISO and coach, with 24 years in the field and a background in marketing. Earlier that day she joined the panel on the CISO under pressure. Hosted by Menno van der Horst with Quint Ketting. ## Timestamps 00:00 Welcome to episode three 00:16 Why Marianne is at CybersecNL: advisory board and community 00:54 The panel: the CISO under pressure 01:25 Responsibility without mandate, sometimes without budget 01:46 Taking care of yourself means more than sport 02:04 SOAP: Security Organisation, Awareness, Portfolio management 03:23 Too many topics, and an audience that can't take more 04:30 Enabling the business, a callback to Andreas Wuchner 05:55 From marketing to CISO: business process first 06:23 No IT degree. Can you still become a CISO? 08:08 "Do you know who you are?" Purpose before security 09:13 First question for the board: what is the purpose? 09:35 What is your definition of a CISO? 10:16 When the CEO forwards every risk question to the CISO 11:01 How a missing mandate turns into frustration and burnout 11:30 The risk is not yours. It is the board's. 11:52 How security teams can support their CISO 12:29 Ask how people are doing, top down and bottom up 13:01 Dutch directness versus American small talk 14:04 Make wellbeing part of your dailies and weeklies 14:47 But under pressure, who has the time? 15:32 The value of idle time 16:31 A generation that sets boundaries, and the surfer 17:46 Mental health, and why we didn't talk about it 18:31 Agents work day and night. Use the time for people. 19:44 Dealing with threats all day takes its toll 20:05 What a breach does to the people behind it 22:17 Closing message: expectations and personal leadership ## Key takeaways - CISO pressure comes from the threat landscape, but just as much from missing mandate, missing budget and unclear expectations. - Taking care of yourself starts with your position: arrange the mandate and agree with the board what they expect from you. - Marianne's SOAP model: security organisation, awareness and portfolio management together give a CISO a solid footing. - A business or marketing background is no barrier to the CISO role. At that level the work is stakeholder management and understanding how the business wants to innovate. - Start with purpose. Ask the board what the organisation is for, which risks it accepts and which it does not. - The risk belongs to the board. The CISO helps them understand and own it. - Ask your team how they are doing, and let them ask you. It is the question that gets skipped when the pressure is highest. - Major incidents leave a lasting mark on the people who handle them, well beyond the technical recovery. ## Mentioned CybersecNL — https://www.cybersecnl.nl SecurityCafe episode with Andreas Wuchner ## Also in this series Ramsés Gallego and Kelvin Rorive — out now. Martin de Vries on sector differences — publishing October 6th --- SecurityCafe. Powered by Atos.

    # The CISO under pressure — Marianne Schinkel Live from CybersecNL — Episode 3 of 7

  6. Sep 17 ·  Bonus

    # Practice for the worst — Kelvin Rorive Live from CybersecNL — Episode 2 of 7

    Recorded at the Atos booth, CybersecNL 2026. Kelvin Rorive is CISO at ICT Group and runs the Cyber Chain Resilience Consortium (CCRC), which prepares organisations and their suppliers to handle a crisis together. Hosted by Menno van der Horst with Quint Ketting. ## Timestamps 00:00 Day one, and nobody is quite awake yet 01:12 Kelvin: CISO at ICT Group, and what CCRC does 02:05 Why this conference feels like a family reunion 03:09 The message at the booth: practice for the worst 03:34 Survivability — a word picked up from a Ukrainian speaker 04:03 Weerbaarheid, veerkracht, and a telco under drone attack 05:25 Fine for the top 10. What about everyone below? 06:09 "My IT manager will handle it" — and why he won't 07:00 Quint: I talk about business risk, not about cyber 08:31 Crisis in the chain: rehearse it with your supplier present 10:08 Exercises spill over into day-to-day cooperation 10:28 The factory that has to stop because the trucks don't come 12:02 One organisation escalates 1-2-3. The other runs it in reverse. 13:23 CEOs walking out of the room with a list 13:44 Putting the CEO in the hot seat, and not letting them delegate 15:11 What not to do: questionnaire bombardment, and AI filling them in 15:47 Know the CISOs of your critical suppliers personally 16:21 The security family, and why you don't abuse it 18:14 FI-ISAC: competitors around one table, one shared goal 19:41 Compliance is not security 20:11 An APT campaign where every control was green 20:42 NIS2, and whether Europe adapts fast enough 22:11 The balance is shifting from prevention to resilience 22:40 The most important word is not cyber. It is resilience. ## Key takeaways - Survivability sits one level beyond resilience. It starts from the assumption that everything can be broken: people, buildings, data, networks. - A cyber crisis gets handed to the IT manager and then escalates into a chain crisis long before anyone at board level notices. - A crisis exercise only tests the chain if your critical supplier is in the room. Mismatched escalation ladders, unclear responsibilities and missing contacts surface in minutes. - Supplier questionnaires are close to worthless now. They are answered by AI, approved unread, and can be manipulated with instructions hidden in the document. - What works instead is a real relationship with the CISOs of your critical suppliers, used sparingly enough that a call means something. - Compliance is the floor, not the ceiling. Green controls and a long-running intrusion coexist comfortably. - Preventive measures still matter, but the centre of gravity has moved to resilience. Assume something gets through and train the goalkeeper. ## Mentioned Cyber Chain Resilience Consortium — https://ccrc.nl ICT Group — https://ict.eu FI-ISAC, the financial sector information sharing community CybersecNL 2026 — https://www.cybersecnl.nl ## Also in this series Ramsés Gallego on speed and governance — out now. Martin de Vries on sector differences — publishing 24 September. --- SecurityCafe. Powered by Atos.

    # Practice for the worst — Kelvin Rorive Live from CybersecNL — Episode 2 of 7

  7. Sep 15 ·  Bonus

    Speed, governance and a changing landscape — Ramsés Gallego

    # Speed, governance and a changing landscape — Ramsés Gallego Special: Live from CybersecNL — Episode 1 of 7 Recorded live at the Atos booth, CybersecNL 2026. Ramsés Gallego is Chief Technologist at DXC, ISACA Hall of Fame, and president of the ISACA Barcelona chapter. Hosted by Menno van der Horst with Quint Ketting. ## Timestamps 00:00 Welcome and introductions 00:42 Why DXC came to CybersecNL: detect more, respond faster 01:28 Rivals, never enemies — why competitors share a stage 02:24 The other side collaborates better than we do 04:28 What integrators owe their customers: service over technology 06:34 A second risk equation: means, motives, opportunities 07:32 Are our frameworks still fit for purpose? 08:29 COBIT 2019 is ageing, and ISACA's AI certification track 09:53 "The human in the loop is dead" — as a reflex, not as a role 10:35 Quantum: RSA, Diffie-Hellman and elliptic curve on the clock 11:55 The part nobody talks about: code signing and certificates 12:38 ISACA Quantum Pulse Poll — the skills gap in numbers 13:21 It is not IT you are protecting. It is the business. 14:01 Trucks that stop delivering, invoices quietly altered 15:02 Why risk has to come from the business, not only the CISO 16:26 Enterprise risk management: risk is always plural 17:22 Should we still be calling it cybersecurity at all? 18:17 Business continuity is not resilience 18:54 The positive side of risk 19:34 Why a car has brakes 20:22 Three pillars: identity, data, applications 21:51 Non-human identities and the 100-to-1 future 23:18 Governance is not management, and we need AI-natives ## Key takeaways - The classic risk equation still holds, but means, motives and opportunities now sits next to it. AI has collapsed the cost of all three. - Business first. Customers do not speak Kubernetes, they speak euros. The database was not hacked — the business was. - Identity remains the cornerstone. Two of the three major incidents discussed on the CybersecNL main stage were identity related. - Non-human identity is the governance problem of the next few years. Almost nobody can say how many agents they run, let alone which accounts sit behind them. - Quantum is not only an encryption story. Code signing, certificates and anything that depends on keeping a secret are in scope. - Brakes let you go fast. Security exists so the business can move, not so it can stop. - Ramsés states that ISACA is already building COBIT 7, returning to a numbered release. Not independently confirmed at the time of publishing. - The 10-to-1 non-human to human identity ratio, and the projected 100-to-1, are cited from industry statistics and not sourced on air. - The 5-to-12-year window for cryptographically relevant quantum computing is Ramsés' own estimate. - ISACA Quantum Pulse Poll figures (2,586 respondents, 67 percent expecting new skill requirements) are quoted from memory. ## Mentioned ISACA — https://www.isaca.org DXC Technology — https://dxc.com Quantum World Association The brakes analogy is credited to Art Wong. ## Also in this series Martin de Vries on sector differences and why we may need a NIST 3 — referenced in this episode, publishing 24 September. Aernout Reijmer on collaboration after ASML — publishing 29 September. --- SecurityCafe. Powered by Atos.

    Speed, governance and a changing landscape — Ramsés Gallego

  8. Sep 9

    SecurityCafe — Andreas Wuchner: AI, the boardroom, and the bill nobody budgeted for

    Andreas Wuchner ran large-scale security organisations for some 30 years and now invests in and advises startups, family offices, VC and PE firms. On geopolitical risk, AI governance, and what AI actually costs. Chapters00:00 — Welcome01:00 — In the news: 900+ agents coordinating over a shared channel05:07 — Geopolitical risk is real, and NIST/ISO don't map it07:39 — The CybersecNL keynote: is what we built still good enough?11:40 — "What brings you in jail is non-compliance"13:00 — The AI governance tooling wave14:44 — Punish vs enable: pocket money for Big Tech kills a startup16:53 — The minimum viable control set17:43 — Fines: where does that money actually go?22:50 — What AI means for the business, from a board seat26:30 — Three types of adopters, and AI-native hiring in seven days32:04 — "Meat proxies": what the AI-native crowd calls the rest of us34:47 — AI is not cheap: what a €200 subscription really costs37:10 — $20 per run vs $2.84, same job39:22 — Outsourcing efficiency promises vs rising AI costs41:44 — Augmentation vs a greenfield agentic machine room43:43 — Cooling, solar, subsea, space: the infrastructure race47:19 — What to read, what to watchKey takeawaysA policy keeps you out of jail — and that's all it does. Regulators ask for governance; many tick that box with a document. Anyone declaring AI governance "done" is at the beginning. Define the non-negotiables, then get out of the way. The organisations doing this well name 10 to 50 controls that are not up for discussion and let the rest develop over time — a minimum viable control set. The alternative is the department of no. Token economics is a skill, not a budget line. The same investment-document analysis ran at roughly $20 per company; converting inputs to markdown first brought it to $2.84. A week-long AI strategy course for managers does nothing for the layer that spends the money. MentionedLog Force — a project in Spain predicting indicators of compromise before they become threats, and spotting when agentic systems start hallucinating. Not a commercial product yet.Tehran — the espionage series from What to WatchUber's €824,990,000 fine from the Dutch DPA for fully automated driver deactivation, under GDPR Article 22: https://www.autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/en/current/uber-fined-nearly-825-million-euros-for-automated-driver-blockingThe Odido breach (February 2026): some 6.4 million people and 600,000 companies, including over 5 million ID document numbers. https://nos.nl/artikel/2604461-odido-hackers-publiceren-resterende-klantdata-ook-miljoenen-id-nummersMeta's settlement over harm to minors: up to $17.1 billion, with 52 US attorneys general — not an EU case. https://www.npr.org/2026/08/26/nx-s1-5944781/meta-settlement-child-safety-lawsuitPowered by Atos

    SecurityCafe — Andreas Wuchner: AI, the boardroom, and the bill nobody budgeted for
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About

“Pull up a chair at the Security Café – your monthly deep dive into the hottest cybersecurity news and trends. Each episode brings you an inspiring guest and a story that will spark your imagination. Produced by Quint & Menno (Atos), this is where insights meet conversation. Don’t just stay informed—join the discussion!”

Information

  • Creator
    Quint Ketting Menno van der Horst
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    36
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Quint Ketting Menno van der Horst
  • Show Website
    SecurityCafé

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