In this episode, Dr. Elliott and Jason Tierney sit down with Dr. Mark Murphy to discuss the skill no one wants to talk about that goes ignored at your detriment: communication. Dr. Murphy has spent more than 30 years in dental sleep medicine, from teaching alongside Dr. Keith Thornton at the Pankey Institute to practicing in Michigan, working in education, and helping launch a sleep program at the University of Detroit Mercy School of Dentistry. The conversation centers on Dr. Murphy’s “learning ladder,” a framework for helping patients move from being unaware of a problem to understanding it, becoming interested in it, building trust, and eventually deciding what to do next. Too often, dentists identify a concern and immediately jump to the solution. They explain testing, treatment, or devices before the patient fully understands why the issue matters. Dr. Murphy explains why better conversations begin with questions, listening, and helping patients discover the concern for themselves. This episode also tackles the discomfort many dentists feel around selling. The hosts argue that presenting a meaningful health solution is not pressure or manipulation. When communication is rooted in care, the goal is not simply to close a case. It is to help someone make an informed decision that may improve their health. What’s on the Menu Dr. Murphy’s career journey and lessons from dental sleep medicineBridging the gap between clinical expertise, communication, and business leadershipBuilding patient trust through education, questions, and the Learning LadderImproving case acceptance through needs-based conversationsStrengthening physician relationships and team performanceThe Learning LadderDr. Murphy describes a series of steps patients move through before they are ready to accept a recommendation: Unaware: The patient does not recognize the concern.Aware: The patient begins to understand that a problem may exist.Interested: The patient wants to know more about how it affects them.Trust: The patient believes the provider understands the issue and cares about their health.Commitment: The patient asks what they should do next or shows readiness to act.Solution: The provider recommends testing, treatment, or another appropriate step.The mistake many dentists make is moving directly from awareness to the solution. The patient has not yet had time to understand the concern, become interested, or trust the recommendation. Co-DiscoveryInstead of overwhelming patients with information, Dr. Murphy encourages dentists to ask questions that help patients connect the dots themselves. The provider and patient discover the problem together. This makes the conversation feel collaborative rather than like a lecture or sales presentation. Ethical SellingThe group reframes selling as helping someone move toward a solution that may improve their health. Dr. Murphy explains that he would not feel comfortable using sales skills to promote something harmful. But he can get excited about helping someone say yes to testing, better health, or a device that may support their airway. As Dr. Elliott puts it, when you do the right things for the right reasons, the money follows. Needs-Based CommunicationThe learning ladder also applies to physician relationships. Rather than walking into a referral meeting and immediately explaining what the practice offers, Dr. Murphy recommends beginning with questions: What are you currently doing?What is working well?What do you wish worked better?Who is involved in the decision?Is there a solution we can provide that addresses that need?This keeps the conversation focused on the physician, their patients, and their workflow rather than on the dentist’s desire for referrals. Professional Organizations & Collaboration The Pankey InstituteDr. Murphy originally attended the Pankey Institute expecting advanced technical training. Instead, he found a broader focus on communication, personal philosophy, relationships, and building a balanced career. The experience helped shape his belief that clinical excellence alone is not enough. Dentists also need to understand people. University of Detroit Mercy School of DentistryDr. Murphy helped establish a sleep program at his alma mater that included student education and clinical experience for orthodontic residents. He also explains why sleep remains difficult to fit into dental school curricula. When a topic is not included on board examinations, schools have little accountability for it or space to teach it within an already crowded curriculum. Physician and Team CollaborationBetter communication is just as important with referral partners and team members as it is with patients. Physicians are more likely to collaborate when dentists begin by understanding their needs. Team members are more likely to grow when leaders provide clear expectations, useful feedback, and the freedom to make honest mistakes. The Big IdeaCommunication is not an optional soft skill. It is part of good patient care. Dentists spend years learning science, clinical techniques, and how to work inside a small clinical space. Then they graduate and are expected to lead teams, build referral relationships, discuss money, earn trust, and help people make important health decisions. Those skills do not appear automatically. The answer is not to educate harder or talk longer. It is to understand where the other person is on the learning ladder. Create awareness before presenting the answer. Build interest before asking for action. Earn trust before offering the solution. Whether the conversation is with a patient, physician, or team member, the same principle applies: ask better questions, listen carefully, and help people take the next right step.
